Burnley vs The Mackems - MATCH THREAD

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I loved JTs 'dark arts'. We've had time wasting against us all season, including on the rare occasions where we have been given a penalty, and it has pretty consistently gone unpunished by referees.

Give your head a wobble if you're criticising JT.

[The Hung Juror]

The thing is a very poor and weak referee allowed Trafford to get away with it.
His antics have been going on for years since Bruce Grobbelaar and probably before. Players in the faces of penalty takers, players trying to rough up the penalty spot. If the ref had given him a yellow card at the point of the first penalty, the outcome of the second may well have been different.

[wilks_bfc]

I've seen the replays, the defender doesn't get the ball he plays the man.

I can appreciate it if you don't think it's a penalty but it seems the general consensus on here (at least on the match thread) was that it looked like a penalty.

Based on the baseline of subsequent penalty decisions from the ref, it should have been

[Poulton-le-Claret]

To add, the first was never a penalty anyway, so why do people care? Justice was served.

[dougcollins]

I thought Roberts was having a worse than normal game. Involved but lots of misplaced passes and being muscled off the ball.

But, we looked worse for it when he came off. Sonne wasn't involved as much as Roberts and didn't offer the same options.

Roberts has looked half-arsed for a few games now.

On his way?

[jrgbfc]

Was really weak refereeing not to book Trafford the first time. Which then led to the ref conpletely losing control. I assume all those praising Traffords "gamesmanship" are fine with players diving/time wasting against us in future?

[Poulton-le-Claret]

Was really weak refereeing not to book Trafford the first time. Which then led to the ref conpletely losing control. I assume all those praising Traffords "gamesmanship" are fine with players diving/time wasting against us in future?

Not fine with time wasting, but it happens every week against us and equally goes unpunished. How many GKs have we seen time wasting from the first half onwards and they don't get booked until near the end? Glad to see we aren't the only club who has the letter of the law imposed on them.

[ClaretTony]

Tony how many times have you seen a goal keeper change his gloves before facing a penalty and take 3 minutes to do so?
I know keepers try and get in players heads but come on the time it took !!
Lucky to get away with one yellow, I’m sure you would have a different view if it had happened to us!
What happened to integrity ?

As I've said, it's become a norm now.

[boatshed bill]

Was really weak refereeing not to book Trafford the first time. Which then led to the ref conpletely losing control. I assume all those praising Traffords "gamesmanship" are fine with players diving/time wasting against us in future?

They already do, and so do ours. If you still believe in professional football as a sport you are living in some alternative world.

[chekhov]

Trafford took his delaying tactics for the penalties to a new low level. It worked in our flavour but I didn't enjoy watching it. To say this is the normal action of goalkeepers is a nonsense and the ref should have booked him long before the first penalty was taken. Are we now going to see all goalkeepers throw their gloves to the ground as soon as a penalty is awarded and take time putting them on after imaginary boot adjustment.
Definitely claret tinted classes for those defending this. Let's see how understanding you will be if we are on the receiving end of such blatant time wasting.

Exactly this.

[CoolClaret]

It's up to the officials to erm, officiate properly.

Traff was superb last night - that potential 4 point swing from conceding at the end could be the difference between promotion and staying down.

Professional football is so far removed from being 'sport' it's untrue. I mean, there are quite literally nation-states that own teams in the English football pyramid. It's rancid and we're desperate for promotion for the health of BFC long term, Traff absolutely did the right thing.

[boyyanno]

Imagine trying to say Trafford had taken it to "new lows" and saying keepers don't do that stuff- Have any of you seen Martinez at Villa? He only won a World Cup recently...some awful opinions.

[Pickles]

Penalties are already too heavily weighted towards the taker. Any advantage the keeper can get, I'm all for. I loved watching Trafford get into Isidor's head. In my opinion, there's no way a striker should be missing one, let alone two penalties in a game but maybe I'm on my own there. Anyway, Trafford made him do so. Two fantastic saves.

[CryerBFC]

I couldn’t care less about people whinging about Traffords antics. He’s done what he needed to do to get in Isidors head and it’s benefitted us. Call it a dark art, sh!t housery, whatever, it’s gained us a point and kept us in the top 2, for now.

I only want the best for our team, take every bit of what the ref lets you get away with and move on.

Barnes was a hero for throwing Kaminski into the Blackburn net 2 years ago, I’m sure if Traff did that against Blackburn some would want a statue built.

We’ve gained a point, cleverly, move on.

[warksclaret]

Imagine trying to say Trafford had taken it to "new lows" and saying keepers don't do that stuff- Have any of you seen Martinez at Villa? He only won a World Cup recently...some awful opinions.

Not only Martinez-most of the PL keepers too. At least Trafford was not going up to the penalty taker and talking to him and getting in his face. That really is poor sportsmanship. What Trafford did yesterday in making the kicker wait and get unsettled, is only going to become more widespread until the authorities create new rules to contain it

[THEWELLERNUT70]

The puritans on here are hilarious. Nothing to moan about really, I know I'll moan about Traffords match saving antics to ease my usual and expected angst

[Claret Toni]

A lot of talk about Trafford's antics, but let's not forget, after all that:

Both penalties were on target and needed saving
The 2nd was very well struck and Trafford produced a really good save.

[Blyclaret]

If we gain automatic promotion by 1 point Traffords delay tactics will look different then.

[boatshed bill]

Trafford took his delaying tactics for the penalties to a new low level. It worked in our flavour but I didn't enjoy watching it. To say this is the normal action of goalkeepers is a nonsense and the ref should have booked him long before the first penalty was taken. Are we now going to see all goalkeepers throw their gloves to the ground as soon as a penalty is awarded and take time putting them on after imaginary boot adjustment.
Definitely claret tinted classes for those defending this. Let's see how understanding you will be if we are on the receiving end of such blatant time wasting.

I think he should have stood against one of the posts and let Isadora have a free shot. Naughty James

[Elizabeth]

Cheeky as ever bill. Watched it back on You Tube this morning and for the second penalty, after all his shenanigans, I think he went to initially stand quite near his left hand post offering Isadore most of the goal to hit. Mind games at its best.
If it was the opposition goalie I would have thought what a prat and hoped our penalty taker showed him up. Jay would have done

[BigGaz]

I loved JTs 'dark arts'. We've had time wasting against us all season, including on the rare occasions where we have been given a penalty, and it has pretty consistently gone unpunished by referees.

Give your head a wobble if you're criticising JT.

I loved them too. Sunderland fans love Luke O'Nien and theyre always talking about some 'housing' that he's done, but like a lot of other things it's only funny when it's not happening to you.

'Housing' is a game that everyone can and does play. Football stopped being a gentleman's game aeons ago so not sure why the handwringing about it.

[boatshed bill]

Cheeky as ever bill. Watched it back on You Tube this morning and for the second penalty, after all his shenanigans, I think he went to initially stand quite near his left hand post offering Isadore most of the goal to hit. Mind games at its best.
If it was the opposition goalie I would have thought what a prat and hoped our penalty taker showed him up. Jay would have done

As an ex-keeper, I absolutely loved it. Brightened up a pretty dull game IMO.

[billyhamilton82]

The referee couldn't book him as it was a genuine action, you can't stop a player tying his boots or stretching a hamstring.

How does he prove otherwise?

How our "fans" can" feel unhappy about JT's antics but overlook the cheating dives by both Sunderland players is beyond me.

He totally psyched the lad out and IMO the taker got exactly what he deserved, especially when he shouted "Wilson" and stood in the left side of the goal, pointing and suggesting he should put it there.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

I loved them too. Sunderland fans love Luke O'Nien and theyre always talking about some 'housing' that he's done, but like a lot of other things it's only funny when it's not happening to you.

'Housing' is a game that everyone can and does play. Football stopped being a gentleman's game aeons ago so not sure why the handwringing about it.

Precisely, where were these apologists when Ashley Barnes shoved the Blackburn GK into his own net.

No one could complain if JT got a yellow card for the first penalty, but he didn't. That's a problem for the ref and Sunderland, not us

[Rileybobs]

He totally psyched the lad out and IMO the taker got exactly what he deserved, especially when he shouted "Wilson" and stood in the left side of the goal, pointing and suggesting he should put it there.

I did feel a bit for Isidor after the game, but in fairness to Trafford he did tell him where to hit it so he only has himself to blame for ignoring the advice.

[Spijed]

When was the last penalty we missed?

[bobinho]

Full credit has to be given to some of the Burnley lads who could see that the double miss had affected Isador quite a bit and they were quick to offer support.

In other news, shithousery like that has been happening to us for years… well done JT. Surely that’s banged £20m on the price tag.

[Stonehouse]

Penalties are already too heavily weighted towards the taker. Any advantage the keeper can get, I'm all for. I loved watching Trafford get into Isidor's head. In my opinion, there's no way a striker should be missing one, let alone two penalties in a game but maybe I'm on my own there. Anyway, Trafford made him do so. Two fantastic saves.

Been mention once but I don’t get our players sympathising with Isidor missing pens ,if our mantra is win at any costs as J T showed go and laugh in his face like Arsenal did to RVN and they are promotion contenders so do the same and destroy his confidence.

[Row x]

Been mention once but I don’t get our players sympathising with Isidor missing pens ,if our mantra is win at any costs as J T showed go and laugh in his face like Arsenal did to RVN and they are promotion contenders so do the same and destroy his confidence.

Fortunately our players have a bit more class

[nil_desperandum]

I think he should have stood against one of the posts and let Isadora have a free shot. Naughty James

We had a keeper that did just that some years ago. Remember?
Many fans blamed the referee for allowing their player to take it, but I had no sympathy for the hapless keeper.

[Targetman]

When was the last penalty we missed?

I would guess at Andre Gray at Reading??

[claret wizard]

Shocked so many having a go at Trafford. There’s lots of people on this thread more upset than Le Bris was. “He was smart”. Great reaction, though I didn’t agree that they should have won.

I don’t think he swapped gloves, he took them off so he could retie his boots. Perfectly normal when facing a penalty. He only got booked on the second one when he went back to read his notes on his water bottle, not for the injury treatment. Even then there was time to show Isidor the wrong side of the goal.

If you look at Trafford’s technique it’s stunning. Penalty takers will get the read of the keepers dive by the leg bend. The knee bends more on the side the keeper is jumping towards. Trafford doesn’t do this, he moved more like a crab across the goal not giving a clue about the dive direction. Worth watching replays to see his technique. That coupled with the research the team do, he’s reciting where Isidor’s last 5 pens have gone 5 minutes after the game ends. Both pens were ok, not brilliant, but ok. Plenty of power, not at the keeper, I’m not sure the delay really psyched him out. I just think it’s great research and a brilliant keeper that brought those saves.

[Dark Cloud]

I loved JT's antics and tbf, it was even better because a. Neither was a penalty and b. Both were subsequently saved!
The only caveat I will add is that he really did take the messing around both times to such utterly bizarre (actually amusing!) lengths that it's attracted a load of media attention and just maybe the league will act and adjust the rules or make a directive which will curtail this stuff in some way. I could certainly see that happening at some point in the near future.

[jrgbfc]

I loved JT's antics and tbf, it was even better because a. Neither was a penalty and b. Both were subsequently saved!
The only caveat I will add is that he really did take the messing around both times to such utterly bizarre (actually amusing!) lengths that it's attracted a load of media attention and just maybe the league will act and adjust the rules or make a directive which will curtail this stuff in some way. I could certainly see that happening at some point in the near future.

Tbf the letter of the law probably already says he should have got 2 yellows and been sent off. Would take a brave ref to do it though.

[Dark Cloud]

Tbf the letter of the law probably already says he should have got 2 yellows and been sent off. Would take a brave ref to do it though.

Sunderland have to be honest and realise they themselves caused a fair portion of the second delay by instigating a fracas which totally backfired tbf.

[BigGaz]

Been mention once but I don’t get our players sympathising with Isidor missing pens ,if our mantra is win at any costs as J T showed go and laugh in his face like Arsenal did to RVN and they are promotion contenders so do the same and destroy his confidence.

Depends on the mentality of the players I suppose but if someone did that to me I'd be furious and hellbent on proving them wrong.

[Robbie_painter]

Thought it was very professional of our players to be fair.If you’ve ever played the game there’s nothing wrong with going up and saying unlucky mate keep your chin up.Was fair proud how the lads did what they did after the game.

[Clovius Boofus]

The puritans on here are hilarious. Nothing to moan about really, I know I'll moan about Traffords match saving antics to ease my usual and expected angst

A real new low on here. Our Man of the Match getting pelters for saving us from losing the game. Utterly pathetic.

[daveisaclaret]

I think Trafford's antics were great and don't want to detract from him (and sorry if this has been mentioned) but is there not a bit of an overreaction about the effect the delay should have on the penalty taker?

Penalties usually take that long to take in leagues with VAR and nobody seems too troubled by it.

[Rileybobs]

There’s absolutely no logic to suggest that Isidore would have taken his penalties any differently with a shorter delay. Obviously it was shithousery of the highest level, and I’d have been cheesed off had the opposition keeper behaved like that against us. But I’m a hypocrite so I don’t mind our keeper doing it.

[CleggHall]

When was the last penalty we missed?

Cornet missed one when he arrogantly took the ball off Jay.

[Targetman]

I think Trafford's antics were great and don't want to detract from him (and sorry if this has been mentioned) but is there not a bit of an overreaction about the effect the delay should have on the penalty taker?

Penalties usually take that long to take in leagues with VAR and nobody seems too troubled by it.

Just watch Arsenal and see how long they take with free kicks and corners, they take forever to take a set piece, and the refs are happy to let them do this.

I can think of 3 penalties that we have had this season taken by Rodriguez and Brownhill. Each time the penalty was awarded one of our players would take charge of the ball until everything settled down, whilst the player who was actually going to take the penalty walked well away from anything which was transpiring from the award of the penalty.

Intelligent tactics from our players and something which would probably have been discussed in training.

Trafford clearly got into Isador's head and well done to the lad!