Russia/Ukraine thread

[Vegas Claret]

Am i blind or has it gone ? It was a very important thread

[The Shire Claret]

I really hope not but there was a lot of people suffering from Dunning Kruger having no regard for what it was there for …

What a shame

[elwaclaret]

Despite me trying to warn people not to play silly buggers the thread has been removed (hopefully temporarily -NOT BY ME) hopefully for a cooling off period, but who knows.

I’ve fought long and hard to keep it going but some people refuse to learn.

I hope it will return, but who knows.

[Rick_Muller]

Despite me trying to warn people not to play silly buggers the thread has been removed (hopefully temporarily -NOT BY ME) hopefully for a cooling off period, but who knows.

I’ve fought long and hard to keep it going but some people refuse to learn.

I hope it will return, but who knows.

Thanks for your efforts in trying to moderate it, I appreciated it

[The Shire Claret]

I think it got to the point where people were aiming for it to be closed in the end there

[JarrowClaret]

Shame that certain posters can’t debate reasonably like normal adults, sadly it was only going to go 1 way after what the sitting US president has stated and done over the last few days crazy/ scary times

[Tribesmen]

Hope it comes back also .

[Casper2]

Didn’t think political threads were allowed?

[Ampth7]

As is often the case nowadays, debates tend to end in a slagging match with a ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ approach.

It is a shame really and I can’t remember when or why people in society decided to completely disregard another persons opinion simply because you don’t agree…..

Strange times indeed!

[jos]

I’d like to see it restored too, let’s face it war is an emotive subject and the thread had done well to maintain debate without rancour for a long time.

[CoolClaret]

As is often the case nowadays, debates tend to end in a slagging match with a ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ approach.

It is a shame really and I can’t remember when or why people in society decided to completely disregard another persons opinion simply because you don’t agree…..

Strange times indeed!

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

[Burnley1989]

Same posters that ruin the other threads tbf, I've been reading it for years without commenting but only noticed certain posters on it recently, low and behold....

[The Shire Claret]

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

Exactly this … you can’t just accept someone being positive the earth is flat and spreading their stupidity far and wide

Sometimes people need to be challenged

[NewClaret]

Whoever has ruined that has done a massive disservice to this board. Nice one guys.

Particularly at the moment where there is more to discuss on the topic than there has been for years.

[Row x]

Whoever has ruined that has done a massive disservice to this board. Nice one guys.

Particularly at the moment where there is more to discuss on the topic than there has been for years.

Some people didn't like the fact that other important topics are not allowed to be discussed

[Vino blanco]

I was under impression that the thread was allowed as a source for information, not for debate or discussion. But as usual the people on here have to try and push their opinions down other people’s throats. This is why political threads are not allowed...the left will never agree with the right nor will the right agree with the left, but we have too many posters who want to show their pseudo intellectual, morally superior attitudes to others who will simply never agree with them. Thanks for ruining what was a very informative and at times enlightening thread.

[GetIntoEm]

An objective thread needs to accept that people have different views, sometimes at the different end of a spectrum. Doesn't make 1 right and 1 wrong.

Some people can't handle that

[CoolClaret]

I was under impression that the thread was allowed as a source for information, not for debate or discussion. But as usual the people on here have to try and push their opinions down other people’s throats. This is why political threads are not allowed...the left will never agree with the right nor will the right agree with the left, but we have too many posters who want to show their pseudo intellectual, morally superior attitudes to others who will simply never agree with them. Thanks for ruining what was a very informative and at times enlightening thread.

The 'left' and the 'right' (ridiculous binary categorising like that btw) can agree on a ton of issues.

How do you suppose someone should respond to blatant, objectively false (and provably false) disinformation?

The world is in a bit of a state right now. Politics is going to affect people in a pretty alarming way whether they want it to or not.

[Newcastleclaret93]

Surprised it lasted that long tbh.

Political threads are not allowed unfortunately even though they often result in the most interesting discussions

[bfcjg]

For most of the time the thread was full of posts linked to actual events and expert analysis links. A couple of Clarets who had specialist historical and military knowledge made some excellent contributions, then alas it decended into bickering between the I'm smarter than you brigade.

[elwaclaret]

Didn’t think political threads were allowed?

Over the years it had developed into a great historical archive of unfolding events in a conflict that will affect world history. It was the kind of things many historians would love to see, and that in future generations would be the envy of many University resources.

Sadly, from time to time it gats taken over by flagwavers and agitators…. It remains nonetheless a resource the board could/should be proud of.

[Oshkoshclaret]

Trump's statement today pushed it over the edge. I had just done writing that for the first time since emigrating 24 years ago I was embarrassed to be a US citizen... but by the time I hit 'post' the thread was gone.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

Unfortunately (and much to my dismay) we are living in a post-truth world now CC.

[alboclaret]

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

Why couldn't you and your mate you were arguing with on there just stop it for the sake of others who really find that thread very useful.
Thanks for that. Well done

[Casper2]

Over the years it had developed into a great historical archive of unfolding events in a conflict that will affect world history. It was the kind of things many historians would love to see, and that in future generations would be the envy of many University resources.

Sadly, from time to time it gats taken over by flagwavers and agitators…. It remains nonetheless a resource the board could/should be proud of.

I agree , but when you have a raving lunatic as leader of the free world it’s bound to cause a reaction.

[elwaclaret]

I agree , but when you have a raving lunatic as leader of the free world it’s bound to cause a reaction.

Just one?

You optimist!

[Big Vinny K]

It’s the same people who ruin most of the threads….not just the political ones either.

It’s those same people who mistakingly believe freedom of speech gives them the right to come out with any old crap

[jrgbfc]

Tbf with recent events it would be almost impossible for it to not turn political.

[Vegas Claret]

it would be a real shame if it's gone for good, some invaluable posters on there that did a great job in collating up to date information.

[Ampth7]

What if an 'opinion' is objectively wrong and is spreading damaging nonsense?

Sure, a debate should absolutely encourage challenge and disagreement, but it’s the way people go about doing that. Whether you or I like it, you’re probably not going to change another persons opinion simply by throwing demeaning comments at them. Furthermore, I’m old enough and wise enough to make my own mind up based on the facts as I see them so quite frankly if I agree/disagree with someone I try not to let their opinion bother me too much.

Isn’t a debate meant to involve persuading others that your opinion is correct with reasoned evidence and logic? I don’t think slagging people off counts as either, and I’m fairly certain that’s one of the reasons why threads get pulled.

[CrosspoolClarets]

What I saw on it the other day was a load of Middle East stuff which is bound to be divisive and rightly banned.

Ukraine has the potential to spiral into WW3 and make football an irrelevance, and with a lot of fake news, hence it is something that should be valued as a discussion on here but without any left / right political bias if possible.

I’d far rather posts were removed, not threads, and with bans to naughty individuals, to keep the thread going.

[Ampth7]

Unfortunately (and much to my dismay) we are living in a post-truth world now CC.

and I suppose the truth is what you and a few of your fellow posters say it is………?

Before you answer that, I don’t know, we may actually agree on many things, but that’s not really the point I’m trying to make.

One thing is for sure, it’s harder than ever to gather accurate news/information today despite the endless sources of media available to us. That and the fact society seems to be so divided right now which is alarming.

[Stalbansclaret]

Personally I think the board is poorer for not allowing political topics and , having followed the Ukraine/Russia thread closely I’m dismayed to see it closed. Why exactly has this happened please ? It’s true there have been some views expressed which I, and evidently numerous others, think ridiculous but so what ? This just serves to prompt debate. Who is unable to handle it to the point that an
Important thread is closed down ?!
When you have the supposed leader of the free world cosying up to the aggressive dictator/imperialist it’s bound to prompt “heated debate” (in the words of Mrs Merton).

[RalphCoatesComb]

MODS

Please restore the original. This is one of the most important topics of the 21st Century, so far!

By all means remove inappropriate comments, but please restore the thread and it contained some valuable references

[MrTopTier]

A fantastic thread sadly spoilt by conspiracy theorists and nut jobs who went off topic. Could these threads not be removed and the thread returned. Very easy to see who the protagonists are.
Especially as we are at a critical juncture in the war.

The institute for Computer Engineering in Moscow has mysteriously gone up in flames this evening. the institute specialist in developing systems critical to national security, geo information and navigating systems.

[The Shire Claret]

MODS

Please restore the original. This is one of the most important topics of the 21st Century, so far!

By all means remove inappropriate comments, but please restore the thread and it contained some valuable references

If they can restore it , it might be worth holding for a few days … it will just carry on the same if not

[ecc]

A very sad day. It was an instructive thread. It was about informing.

The trolls have had their way.

[elwaclaret]

If they can restore it , it might be worth holding for a few days … it will just carry on the same if not

I think it is respectful to allow the moderator that withdrew it, makes the call on its restoration. I fully understand his reason for pulling the plug. Like I said hopefully, seeing the popularity it enjoys he will do so when the dust settles on the bickering that was breaking out.

[Rileybobs]

Out of interest, why is a thread about the conflict in Ukraine permitted to be discussed on here, but not a thread on the conflict in Palestine?

[Vegas Claret]

The institute for Computer Engineering in Moscow has mysteriously gone up in flames this evening. the institute specialist in developing systems critical to national security, geo information and navigating systems.

and this is why that thread was very very important,I'd not seen that information anywhere other than here. Really grim that someone (don't know who) has caused it to be pulled. I hope they get the ban they deserve.

[Buxtonclaret]

I don't often post on this thread, but do often read it.
It's been an important thread in an incredibly important world event.
Would be tragic if a few bickering clowns forced the MoDs to close it.

[NewClaret]

What I saw on it the other day was a load of Middle East stuff which is bound to be divisive and rightly banned.

Ukraine has the potential to spiral into WW3 and make football an irrelevance, and with a lot of fake news, hence it is something that should be valued as a discussion on here but without any left / right political bias if possible.

I’d far rather posts were removed, not threads, and with bans to naughty individuals, to keep the thread going.

I agree.

The moderators have a tough job but on threads like that I would issue lifetime thread bans to anyone incapable of following the forum rules. No warmings, everybody knows the rules so they shouldn’t be necessary.

[elwaclaret]

Out of interest, why is a thread about the conflict in Ukraine permitted to be discussed on here, but not a thread on the conflict in Palestine?

No thread was attempted on Palestine, largely because of the obvious. The thread started on day one when it was expected to last hours as a news item… few thought Ukraine would resist long… itself something of note for history.

[Stonehouse]

MODS

Please restore the original. This is one of the most important topics of the 21st Century, so far!

By all means remove inappropriate comments, but please restore the thread and it contained some valuable references

Surely there must be a good media outlet that gives a good unbiased view about what’s really going on ,but unfortunately some people on this board think they’re in the know like they do about all things BFC,I’m in the bracket of one that likes to know what’s going on without reading chapter and verse about what’s happening in the Ukraine and the better informed on this board are a perfect read for the latest news,so please can they continue with their excellent updates without falling prey to the pro Trump / anti Trump crowd?

[Woonderbah]

Hopefully the thread can be saved.. as someone who withdrew from twitter a while ago, I found it very educational and informative and there's clearly some contributors with excellent knowledge and military insight.

[Poulton-le-Claret]

and I suppose the truth is what you and a few of your fellow posters say it is………?

Before you answer that, I don’t know, we may actually agree on many things, but that’s not really the point I’m trying to make.

One thing is for sure, it’s harder than ever to gather accurate news/information today despite the endless sources of media available to us. That and the fact society seems to be so divided right now which is alarming.

Not at all, I have zero interest in trying to convince others to believe what I believe when it comes to issues like this.

I was just pointing out that we live in a world now that people from all sides have confused their beliefs with facts. That much is clearly evident on the previous thread.

[JarrowClaret]

The 'left' and the 'right' (ridiculous binary categorising like that btw) can agree on a ton of issues.

How do you suppose someone should respond to blatant, objectively false (and provably false) disinformation?

The world is in a bit of a state right now. Politics is going to affect people in a pretty alarming way whether they want it to or not.

Everyone is entitled to and should be able to express there opinion whether it is crazy or not, who am I or you for that matter to judge the validity of someone else’s opinion. We can disagree with it or debate it 100% but what we can’t do is get into a slanging match being abusive and calling people names, that is school ground behaviour anyway. I have no idea why the thread was pulled I assume that it is something like what I stated above and I guess from your responses you were involved apologies if you weren’t but if you were congrats on helping to destroy a fantastic thread.

[CoolClaret]

Everyone is entitled to and should be able to express there opinion whether it is crazy or not, who am I or you for that matter to judge the validity of someone else’s opinion. We can disagree with it or debate it 100% but what we can’t do is get into a slanging match being abusive and calling people names, that is school ground behaviour anyway. I have no idea why the thread was pulled I assume that it is something like what I stated above and I guess from your responses you were involved apologies if you weren’t but if you were congrats on helping to destroy a fantastic thread.

Quite an assertion without any evidence! I was active on that thread pretty much from page one of it. I was refuting some posts of nonsense with solid links with verified, correct information.

There are posters that continually ruin threads with nonsense, don't engage honestly with the content, use ad hominem attacks, post inflammatory comments and they've been doing it years.

Sorry but I'm quite enraged about the entire situation.

I had family members (as numerous others have - especially from the lancs region) quite literally die or get disfigured fighting against fascism. Now we have the leader of the 'free world' taking a leaf out of the autocrat playbook and quite literally as of today, broadcasting objectively false Kremlin propaganda, cosying up to an imperialist. Yet, there are posters here talking about 'oh everyone's entitled to a point of view', 'the left and right will never see eye to eye' as though the situation we face ourselves today is simply a disagreement on how much we should tax people.

I'm sick of it; I'm sick of people making excuses for those who are wilfully ignorant either online or in the public realm and I'm sick of those who are championing and basking in their ignorance.

[JarrowClaret]

Quite an assertion without any evidence! I was active on that thread pretty much from page one of it. I was refuting some posts of nonsense with solid links with verified, correct information.

There are posters that continually ruin threads with nonsense, don't engage honestly with the content, use ad hominem attacks, post inflammatory comments and they've been doing it years.

Sorry but I'm quite enraged about the entire situation.

I had family members (as numerous others have - especially from the lancs region) quite literally die or get disfigured fighting against fascism. Now we have the leader of the 'free world' taking a leaf out of the autocrat playbook and quite literally as of today, broadcasting objectively false Kremlin propaganda, cosying up to an imperialist. Yet, there are posters here talking about 'oh everyone's entitled to a point of view', 'the left and right will never see eye to eye' as though the situation we face ourselves today is simply a disagreement on how much we should tax people.

I'm sick of it; I'm sick of people making excuses for those who are wilfully ignorant either online or in the public realm and I'm sick of those who are championing and basking in their ignorance.

Not really that much of an assertion based on your posts in this thread, however as I said if you weren’t involved I apologies.

I was also involved from day 1 on the thread I enjoyed reading the many interesting and knowledgeable posts on it. who has made excuses for anyone? there is a way to debate with someone and there is a way not to, the way not to gets threads closed it is that simple. You don’t have to see eye to eye but be able to discuss it like adult without getting angry and abusive with a faceless person on the internet that is all.

Hope you have a good evening

[CoolClaret]

Not really that much of an assertion based on your posts in this thread, however as I said if you weren’t involved I apologies.

I was also involved from day 1 on the thread I enjoyed reading the many interesting and knowledgeable posts on it. who has made excuses for anyone? there is a way to debate with someone and there is a way not to, the way not to gets threads closed it is that simple. You don’t have to see eye to eye but be able to discuss it like adult without getting angry and abusive with a faceless person on the internet that is all.

Hope you have a good evening

There's nothing to debate when someone is posting falsifiable nonsense. it's just wrong. It isn't a 'matter of opinion' like someone's opinion on how we can solve Burnley's attacking woes.

If we cannot say to people, as adults, 'Sorry but you're wrong on this, and here's why', then we may just pack it in now.