Parker

[Mattster]

Course you are

Complex thoughts and emotions might be beyond you, but trust me, they're possible.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Complex thoughts and emotions might be beyond you, but trust me, they're possible.

You are certainly emotional I will give you that

[Guller Bull]

Some good decent debate and differing opinions without the need to get personal. I think we are all roughly in the same ball park but just either side of an opinion divide.

I personally am pretty much with what agreenwood said above. Not got an anti parker agenda. Just don't think his tactics and brand of football are inspiring or entertaining. I understand the counter arguments re league position and defensive qualities. I hope that after the New Year we go on an incredible run of sexy football and I am totally proven wrong.

[houseboy]

To be fair, I think there's hardly anyone that wants him sacked. I wouldn't worry about a vocal minority on social media.

Probably true.

[Mattster]

You are certainly emotional I will give you that

Oh no.

[houseboy]

Just out of interest apart from Weghorst who are the bad characters that SP has cleared out?

Probably the ones who wanted out as soon as VK left. It would appear they were more interested in playing for him than Burnley. And oddly Weghorst wasn’t one of them.

[Raconteur]

Probably the ones who wanted out as soon as VK left. It would appear they were more interested in playing for him than Burnley. And oddly Weghorst wasn’t one of them.

According to many on here , VK had lost the dressing room.

[Spijed]

According to many on here , VK had lost the dressing room.

At the end of the Palace game last season many fans had clearly had enough as well.

[Raconteur]

At the end of the Palace game last season many fans had clearly had enough as well.

That may be so, but did the same fans refuse to go on this season because VK left.

I just find it funny that VK had lost the dressing room but when he left in the summer we had those same players wanting to leave as they only wanted to play for VK.

[boyyanno]

That may be so, but did the same fans refuse to go on this season because VK left.

I just find it funny that VK had lost the dressing room but when he left in the summer we had those same players wanting to leave as they only wanted to play for VK.

No one left because they only wanted to play for VK

[Raconteur]

No one left because they only wanted to play for VK

I never said they did. I was just repeating what someone had previously posted.

[BigChaCha]

by boyyanno » Mon Dec 16, 2024 3:53 pm
No one left because they only wanted to play for VK

Raconteur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 3:41 pm
That may be so, but did the same fans refuse to go on this season because VK left.

I just find it funny that VK had lost the dressing room but when he left in the summer we had those same players wanting to leave as they only wanted to play for VK.

There is absolutely no proof that VK lost the dressing room, zero, zilch, diddly squat... There is loads of evidence to suggest the opposite...

The main protagonist of this nonsense rumour was a certain Mr ITK on here who also said as SD was leaving that his backroom team were toxic and had fallen out with players and yet then went on to sign some of those same Burnley players at Everton lol and he has also been proven wrong on many ITK nonsense claims before and since!

[Raconteur]

There is absolutely no proof that VK lost the dressing room, zero, zilch, diddly squat... There is loads of evidence to suggest the opposite...

The main protagonist of this nonsense rumour was a certain Mr ITK on here who also said as SD was leaving that his backroom team were toxic and had fallen out with players and yet then went on to sign some of those same Burnley players at Everton lol and he has also been proven wrong on many ITK nonsense claims before and since!

I agree. I don't think he did lose the dressing room (We also had a very respected, long time poster peddling this rumour). Like you said there is evidence to suggest the opposite like Foster saying he would run through brick walls.

I just found it funny that we have such conflicting rumours running side by side.

[boyyanno]

There is absolutely no proof that VK lost the dressing room, zero, zilch, diddly squat... There is loads of evidence to suggest the opposite...

The main protagonist of this nonsense rumour was a certain Mr ITK on here who also said as SD was leaving that his backroom team were toxic and had fallen out with players and yet then went on to sign some of those same Burnley players at Everton lol and he has also been proven wrong on many ITK nonsense claims before and since!

I have 0 idea why you have copied me in to this.

I posted to say that players didn't leave the club because they wanted to play for VK. I do believe that not all was well behind the scenes with certain players which resulted in them being unhappy.

But I also believe that we signed and targeted a group of players that ultimately had ambitions far beyond the championship and us. That's why a lot of them wanted to leave. I think even was he still here a lot of them would have wanted to go.

[claretspice]

It’s oft said that what somebody truly wants to say is at the end of their paragraph

You keep damning him with faint praise. Got the basics right, he’s an organiser. I doubt his credentials as a coach.

He’s done miles better than that. Burnley control most games. Territorially and in possession. That’s the game plan, and they’re doing it pretty well. Hence being the best away team in the division, and unbeaten at home.

With respect, that isn't a fair reflection of what I said. I said the area where there is more doubt is in his coaching of the team as an attacking force. I didn't use the word basics and I don't think that it is fair to say that creating a winning culture out of a team that was utterly dejected and divided last May is a basic or "faint" achievement. It is not. It is arguably the most important and hardest part of being a head coach. It would have been incredibly easy, particularly given the events of August, for us to end up where Luton are in the league.

Burnley do control most games territorially and in possession. That though is in good part down to having the best midfield combination in the league in Cullen and Brownhill, plus the best centre back in Esteve (and Egan Riley, although I think Parker takes huge credit for his emergence). Parker inherited good players in the core of his team. However, we don't convert that into the number of chances you might reasonably expect. There are lots of reasons for that, including injuries and the fact we had to recruit in the midst of a firestorm in August and so the squad is a bit lopsided, but equally, there are things that are quite clearly part of Parker's tactical approach (Flemming as a number 9, Laurent and Hannibal playing as a 10, general reluctance to cross the ball early, and so on) and I don't think we look especially coherent when we get into the final third and have to make that control of possession and territory count. I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be frustrated by that even if we are in a position which, overall and all things being considered, we'd have taken in August.

[Devils_Advocate]

.....
there are things that are quite clearly part of Parker's tactical approach (Flemming as a number 9, Laurent and Hannibal playing as a 10, general reluctance to cross the ball early, and so on) and I don't think we look especially coherent when we get into the final third and have to make that control of possession and territory count. I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be frustrated by that even if we are in a position which, overall and all things being considered, we'd have taken in August.

I think we need to add moving the ball quickly and with purpose as one of the current weaknesses. With the players we have at our disposal this is definitely an area that could be improved by a combination of coaching and tactics. The balls we play are often so safe and slow we struggle to move a defensively minded opposition around anywhere near enough to create the volume and quality of chances we should be doing

[Elizabeth]

Looking at the offensive side of our game, other than the skilful Flemming who will benefit from gaining match fitness I don’t see any more growth in the three;Anthony, Koleosho or Sarmiento , this season. If we didn’t have the more skilful Foster and Ramsay coming back plus the January window I would be concerned that those 3 continued to be permanent fixtures in the starting 11. Happy to have them on the bench though.
In summary I expect there to be an increase in our skill level in the second half of the season and while this is not a direct answer to Parker’s preferred style , my hope is that it will persuade him to be more flexible.
I will be disappointed if it doesn’t work out that way with Parker who I think will be helped greatly if Foster makes himself available to the end of the season .

[dandeclaret]

With respect, that isn't a fair reflection of what I said. I said the area where there is more doubt is in his coaching of the team as an attacking force. I didn't use the word basics and I don't think that it is fair to say that creating a winning culture out of a team that was utterly dejected and divided last May is a basic "faint" achievement. It is not. It is arguably the most important and hardest part of being a head coach. It would have been incredibly easy, particularly given the events of August, for us to end up where Luton are in the league.

Burnley do control most games territorially and in possession. That, though is in good part down to having the best midfield combination in the league in Cullen and Brownhill, plus the best centre back in Esteve (and Egan Riley, although I think Parker takes huge credit for his emergence). Parker inherited good players in the core of his team. However, we don't convert that into the number of chances you might reasonably expect. There are lots of reasons for that, including injuries and the fact we had to recruit in the midst of a firestorm in August and so the squad is a bit lopsided, but equally, there are things that are quite clearly part of Parker's tactical approach (Flemming as a number 9, Laurent and Hannibal playing as a 10, general reluctance to cross the ball early, and so on) and I don't think we look especially coherent when we get into the final third and have to make that control of possession and territory count. I think it's pretty reasonable for people to be frustrated by that even if we are in a position which, overall and all things being considered, we'd have taken in August.

Spice, the last sentences on your 2 posts on this thread are

" think you can think that and be really critical of performances such Derby, and indeed the first half yesterday - and reasonably demand and expect more - whilst also recognising that Parker has done a good job of stabilising things and instilling the basics."

"The thing where there is more doubt is his credentials as a coach"

I've reflected that I felt upon reading that, you'd given scant praise for instilling the basics, and nowhere does it mention his attacking set ups, merely that there is more doubt in his credentials as a coach. That's how I read what was written, and if that's not what you meant, that's fine, but I don't think my assessment as unfair.

Personally, I think when you're playing the game in a compressed area, because you've pressed the opposition into their half, then attacking play is going to look disjointed, as there's not much space. But the team have definitely been below par in their decision making when in good positions. Opportunities that would have created large XG ratings have been passed up for a shot from distance, or through poor execution. I think that will click and the team will be even better than they are now.... a team that is unbeaten at home, the best team away and a team that has managed injuries pretty well to stay well in the title race.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Sheffield United will be attempting to set a league record of 10 successive clean sheet wins at home when they face us on Boxing Day.

We are the top side away.

So something will have to give, and it will be a great chance to assess Parker against a top team.

[claretspice]

Spice, the last sentences on your 2 posts on this thread are

" think you can think that and be really critical of performances such Derby, and indeed the first half yesterday - and reasonably demand and expect more - whilst also recognising that Parker has done a good job of stabilising things and instilling the basics."

"The thing where there is more doubt is his credentials as a coach"

I've reflected that I felt upon reading that, you'd given scant praise for instilling the basics, and nowhere does it mention his attacking set ups, merely that there is more doubt in his credentials as a coach. That's how I read what was written, and if that's not what you meant, that's fine, but I don't think my assessment as unfair.

Personally, I think when you're playing the game in a compressed area, because you've pressed the opposition into their half, then attacking play is going to look disjointed, as there's not much space. But the team have definitely been below par in their decision making when in good positions. Opportunities that would have created large XG ratings have been passed up for a shot from distance, or through poor execution. I think that will click and the team will be even better than they are now.... a team that is unbeaten at home, the best team away and a team that has managed injuries pretty well to stay well in the title race.

I'm not sure why you are labouring the last sentence of two posts, rather than the remainder of each. Better to construe them as a whole if you want to present them in context.

Ironically we're not that far from agreeing. I agree with you that injuries have been a factor and overall we've done well to ride them - i think ive been quite clear Parker's had plenty to contend with that is not in his control. I think you accept there are shortcomings in our attacking play but i think you are being decidedly generous about our attacking play currently- it isn't just decision making, it is about how many men we commit to the box, about pace of play, about too many players being in roles that dont quite suit them. I dont think we look as cohesive as I would expect this far into the project and it is a tough watch at times. At times i find the logic of our selection and tactics hard to comprehend. But I can't argue with the results and I hope you are right that the second half of the season, with injured players returning, sees us gell.

[xxmunkyennuixx]

It is a mixed bag. Tempo at home is a major issue. Decision making has been really poor ie Anthony/Hannibal second half against Derby. Committing men forward has been an issue. I was fine with Stoke and Boro. Derby felt like a few steps backwards. Norwich first half was worse than that. I thought post Stoke we were clicking but I'm uncertain now.

The results are broadly there but it does feel that he is not quite getting the best from the players in the attacking sense. It feels unsustainable for this paucity in attack to lead to promotion.

On the plus side, he didn't walk after that disaster of a transfer window. Egan Riley's development has been fantastic. Trafford is really developing in the old fashioned goal keeping skills. The players taking to the pitch are united. I love a well organised defence - the CB pairing is immense. He clearly cares. He has good values, he feels a good fit for the club from that point of view. He has dealt with a ridiculous injury list in offensive positions.

If it was clear cut that promotion was a nice to have rather than a necessity then I'd be more relaxed to see him work through a couple of transfer windows and build a squad how he wants.

[Quicknick]

It is a mixed bag. Tempo at home is a major issue. Decision making has been really poor ie Anthony/Hannibal second half against Derby. Committing men forward has been an issue. I was fine with Stoke and Boro. Derby felt like a few steps backwards. Norwich first half was worse than that. I thought post Stoke we were clicking but I'm uncertain now.

The results are broadly there but it does feel that he is not quite getting the best from the players in the attacking sense. It feels unsustainable for this paucity in attack to lead to promotion.

On the plus side, he didn't walk after that disaster of a transfer window. Egan Riley's development has been fantastic. Trafford is really developing in the old fashioned goal keeping skills. The players taking to the pitch are united. I love a well organised defence - the CB pairing is immense. He clearly cares. He has good values, he feels a good fit for the club from that point of view. He has dealt with a ridiculous injury list in offensive positions.

If it was clear cut that promotion was a nice to have rather than a necessity then I'd be more relaxed to see him work through a couple of transfer windows and build a squad how he wants.

Good, balanced post.

[NewClaret]

Great post xxmunkyennuixx.

The only point I would add is that the injury list hasn’t all been offensive - Beyer, Worrall, Roberts, Delcroix all out for for periods. He hasn’t had a settled defence either but has managed to deliver a brilliant defensive record.

I’d also say the offensive injury list being described as ridiculous somewhat downplays how horrific it’s been.

I can say with absolute certainty that Sheffield United and Leeds would be nowhere near where we are if they’d had that kind of injury list this season. How we are where we are is remarkable and hugely overlooked by fans and the media in my opinion.

So I’ve been a big fan of Parker for all the reasons you mention, and a few more actually, but I can’t deny I doubts started to creep in after Derby.

Attacking-wise, we need to shape up big time. We play too slowly, too conservatively (every third pass is backwards and one of the others is sideways!) and need to take more risk in possession - passes in to space, take defenders on, go outside, get crosses in, runners and men committing to the box not holding their shape, etc. We’re poor going forward and WAY too easy to defend against - no doubt and no point trying to excuse or hide it.

But that’s the one missing piece of the jigsaw in my opinion, and his results have earned him the right for time to get it right. He deserves some real backing from the fans and ALK in the January window.

[houseboy]

According to many on here , VK had lost the dressing room.

True. It will probably never come out as to what happened with VK. He came in like a breath of fresh air and worked wonders but somehow it all went wrong very quickly. He seems to be doing okay with Bayern though.

[houseboy]

Sheffield United will be attempting to set a league record of 10 successive clean sheet wins at home when they face us on Boxing Day.

We are the top side away.

So something will have to give, and it will be a great chance to assess Parker against a top team.

Agree with this although I would say our win away to Leeds has set some sort of marker against top teams.

[Spijed]

Agree with this although I would say our win away to Leeds has set some sort of marker against top teams.

Norwich have played all the top sides at home and we are the only one to win there as well.

[ClaretLoup]

Re the Bramall Lane fixture: we limited the two free scoring Championship home teams (Leeds and Norwich ) to one goal between them. If we can do the same vs the Blades and nick one on the break somehow, happen we can come away with a positive result. On this occasion I would welcome one of those lovely nil nils.

Four points from the next two games please Santa.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Agree with this although I would say our win away to Leeds has set some sort of marker against top teams.

Agree. Sunderland away too during a crisis, only 1 shipped. That is why defences win titles.

In balance though Leeds have only faced 136 shots this season and we are 196 (Blades 223) so Leeds could argue they have the best defence even though they have let a few more in so far.

I do though expect we will finish above Sheffield United, and that definitely isn’t the opinion where I live, surrounded by Blades fans.

[NewClaret]

Agree. Sunderland away too during a crisis, only 1 shipped. That is why defences win titles.

In balance though Leeds have only faced 136 shots this season and we are 196 (Blades 223) so Leeds could argue they have the best defence even though they have let a few more in so far.

I do though expect we will finish above Sheffield United, and that definitely isn’t the opinion where I live, surrounded by Blades fans.

Interesting stats. At a guess I’d say that’s because Leeds are better going forward and therefore dominate games more than us. Or maybe we concede lower quality chances.

I’m shocked we’ve conceded c.10 shots per game though.

Leeds & Sheffield United don’t have the strength in depth that we have. What they both do in January and whether they get a bout of injuries similar to ours (or escape anything too dramatic) will play a big part in the final league table in my view.

[Dark Cloud]

Players wanting to leave en mass upon relegation (whatever their reasons) wasn't necessarily the main issue. The timing of the mass exit was! IE. Two weeks into a new season, when they'd had over two months to clear their lockers and run away. I've no idea who is to blame for that, but that was crucial and we're still feeling the fall out from it. We'd won the first two matches at a canter and yet were suddenly rushing around trying to recruit a team. Tbf we appear to have done rather well in most areas, but for whatever reason we weren't able to adequately address our direct goal threat in the very tight times scale and that's holding us back currently. That's not Parker's fault and it's (arguably) not the fault of anyone at the club other than the players who left when they chose to. Hopefully, we can sort it in January. We'll see.

[Anonymous Claret]

This is probably down to the players and their agents.

They will leave it late in the day to see what is the best offer on the table. You can't blame them for that.

[Walt]

This is probably down to the players and their agents.

They will leave it late in the day to see what is the best offer on the table. You can't blame them for that.

To an extent no you can't, they wanted to play at a better standard than the Championship and earn more money. Who doesn't want to earn more money.

Most agents are parasites.

No loyalty or integrity. There's right ways to go about things and to shaft your current employer late in the window when you're part of the reason the club was relegated, isn't a good look. Will they care sat on their new bumper contracts, very doubtful.

Player power is a problem and they know they can hold a club over the barrell upon relegation. Especially when the club was seemingly as desperate as we appeared to be to bring in as much cash as possible.

That's the way it goes in football, it's a sad state of affairs. A strange business when you can be rewarded for playing a key role in failure, Kompany to Bayern being one of the strangest yet.

[dandeclaret]

Sheffield United will be attempting to set a league record of 10 successive clean sheet wins at home when they face us on Boxing Day.

We are the top side away.

So something will have to give, and it will be a great chance to assess Parker against a top team.

And once again Parker comes out the right side of it…..

Leeds away, Norwich away, Sheff Utd away….. look at their records. And 9 points from those games is an incredible achievement.

[ElectroClaret]

And once again Parker comes out the right side of it…..

Leeds away, Norwich away, Sheff Utd away….. look at their records. And 9 points from those games is an incredible achievement.

It is.
And of course, we have to bear in mind that the guy had the core of the side sold out from under him two or three games into the season and had to rebuild.

Great stuff.

[mdd2]

Not only has he made a good fist of the task thus far but he has done this whilst achieving a first with his Solar Probe only 3.8 million miles from the sun and apparently unscathed. What a man.

[Burnleyareback2]

Can’t see us losing again this season in the league unless we sell big next month.

we are only going to get better

[Swizzlestick]

Can’t see us losing again this season in the league unless we sell big next month.

we are only going to get better

Alright calm down. We’re in a good place at the moment, but this league is a slog and can bite you on the backside if you’re not careful. A long way to go and there may well be a few losses along the way. As always, it’s how you bounce back from them that is key.

I have been critical of Parker and the style sometimes, but he deserves huge credit for the defensive stability he has put in place and we now are starting to look more progressive at the other end too.

[hoosier-daddy]

Can’t see us losing again this season in the league unless we sell big next month.

we are only going to get better

Looks like 3rd place is going to have over 90 points.

[Quicknick]

Can’t see us losing again this season in the league unless we sell big next month.

we are only going to get better

I don't see us not losing again, but I can see us winning the league.

[Rileybobs]

Alright calm down. We’re in a good place at the moment, but this league is a slog and can bite you on the backside if you’re not careful. A long way to go and there may well be a few losses along the way. As always, it’s how you bounce back from them that is key.

I have been critical of Parker and the style sometimes, but he deserves huge credit for the defensive stability he has put in place and we now are starting to look more progressive at the other end too.

This is true. And we’ve already seen a few times this season after a promising few performances we have a tendency to throw a stinker into the mix.

[mdd2]

At this stage "Owt can appen"

[fidelcastro]

It's weird how people jump from one extreme to the other on here.

It's gone from us being ""We won't go up with this squad" and "Parker hasn't a clue" to "We'll win the league" and "We won't lose another game".

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

[watsonsclarets]

Mentioned on another thread there rotations and mix up at speed higher up the pitch and we are playing g through sides using this

It possession with purpose now and yes there the odd more transition because it doesn’t always come off but we have confidence and have players interchanging and playing quicker in the for al 3rd.

We had the tactical set up which Parker I think excels in now we are seeing his creative style and the players are responding.

Hannibal offer so much more in terms of little give and goes and Brownhill offers so much more now with his movement and ability to move freely. Laurent is key too his defensive base he allowed to push on and make us 6 stop going forward too at times.

Rotations and balance giving us varied attacking angles and threats


Anybody else notice Steve forward push yesterday when we went into a back 5 ! He went and stayed - that’s 2 up at the league leaders with 5 minutes to go !!! Confidence hey makes all the difference - well done team and manager

[Burnleyareback2]

Can’t see us losing again this season in the league unless we sell big next month.

we are only going to get better

I may of finally got a prediction right…

[HurstGrangeClaret]

I may of finally got a prediction right…

If we avoid defeat in our last two games, that could turn out to be one of the quotes of the season.

[Burnleyareback2]

If we avoid defeat in our last two games, that could turn out to be one of the quotes of the season.

I suspect today is ticked off the list…!