Aston Villa

[boyyanno]

Absolutley robbed by that decision today.

VAR is not fit for purpose. Can't blame the ref for blowing his whistle if he thinks it's a foul, VAR is there to make sure the correct decision is reached. How these flaws in the application of VAR still exist is beyond me.

[ElectroClaret]

Maatsen concedes a peno.
Scored 2-0

[RVclaret]

Which decision? Haven’t been watching that game. Can’t be referring to Martinez’s red (seen a clip)?

[Casper2]

Absolutley robbed by that decision today.

VAR is not fit for purpose. Can't blame the ref for blowing his whistle if he thinks it's a foul, VAR is there to make sure the correct decision is reached. How these flaws in the application of VAR still exist is beyond me.

Yet linemen are told not to flag until the end of the play , 100% the refs fault.

[boyyanno]

Which decision? Haven’t been watching that game. Can’t be referring to Martinez’s red (seen a clip)?

They had a goal disallowed, basically the keeper didn't have it in two hands, Villa player nips in and puts it in the net. Ref blew as the ball was on it's way in to the net as he judged it as a foul.

VAR couldn't interfere as the ref had blown. I disagree with those that are hanging the ref out to dry, he's there to give decisions as he sees them.

I think VAR should check to see if the blowing of the whistle impacted the game. Realistically there shouldn't be a grey area where VAR can't get involved imo.

[boyyanno]

Yet linemen are told not to flag until the end of the play , 100% the refs fault.

Then do we get rid of officials? Because I can't see why they are there if they aren't giving decisions when they deem them fouls? How long do they play on for? They don't know if it will ultimately end up as a goal, it seems to make the officials job either impossible or redundant.

[Conroy92]

Yet linemen are told not to flag until the end of the play , 100% the refs fault.

Don't know how anyone can blame the ref for doing anything other than getting the decision wrong. People who think he shouldn't have blown must believe in a world where referees don't exist. Because that's basically what your advocating for with var pulling it back every time there's a foul. Think I'm over exaggerating? There are goals scored from the half way line and from inside teams own half, is the referee supposed to not blow for what he believes is a foul in the centre circle? It's daft. As the op said, VAR is not fit for purpose. The refs being hung out to dry when the reality is VAR should be able to over turn his mistake.

[Rileybobs]

Not sure how you can expect the VAR to award a goal if the game has stopped.

[ElectroClaret]

It's robbed Villa of a Champions League place.

[Conroy92]

Not sure how you can expect the VAR to award a goal if the game has stopped.

No but in fairness if it resumed at the position the whistle was blown that would be somewhat fair. Leaving Rogers with an open net.

[ElectroClaret]

Don't know why the keeper didn't grab it with both
hands, he had plenty of time to do so.

[boyyanno]

Not sure how you can expect the VAR to award a goal if the game has stopped.

The ball was in the back of the net before anyone could react to the whistle blowing.

By the letter of the law I understand why the decision was given, but no one can say it was the "right" one. It's easy to blame the ref and say he should play on, but does that mean the referee stops giving decisions beyond the half way line? Because I can't understand how you establish a cut off point for - don't give a decision incase it ends up as a goal at some point in the future.

[bfcmik]

It's robbed Villa of a Champions League place.

As Chelsea won, it didn't. Villa had to take more points than Chelsea to go above them into 5th.

[boyyanno]

As Chelsea won, it didn't. Villa had to take more points than Chelsea to go above them into 5th.

Newcastle finished 5th.

[ElectroClaret]

Amorim apologising on the pitch for the season.

[Goliath]

I think we are going to reach the point where we don't need refs. Once it can be automated we will just need a ref there to basically oversee things rather than make every decision.

[Jakubclaret]

Newcastle finished 5th.

It's all ifs & buts, the teams waiting on today left themselves short you could say leaving daylight reliant on the VAR lottery. Throughout the course they'll all be able to point to fortuitous decisions or not so in villas case today. Swings & roundabouts from the start till the end.

[boyyanno]

I think we are going to reach the point where we don't need refs. Once it can be automated we will just need a ref there to basically oversee things rather than make every decision.

They will have too imo. How else can they continue when they're expected to operate under undefined parameters. As I've said above in this scenerio what parameters exist for a referee playing on incase a goal occurs? How much time do they give, when do they subsequently blow? The ref is going to take all the crap and yet I don't know anyone who can define the parameters around this "rule". It's a joke.

[Spijed]

I think we are going to reach the point where we don't need refs. Once it can be automated we will just need a ref there to basically oversee things rather than make every decision.

You can never automate VAR for decisions like the second goal Sheffield United scored yesterday - and whether a player is interfering with playing.

That's impossible.

[quoonbeatz]

Another example of why var doesn’t work in football.

[Jakubclaret]

Another example of why var doesn’t work in football.

It's never worked consistently from the start.

[Myk]

If there’s 9 teams in Europe next season does that mean they’ll basically be no Saturday Premier League Games at the start of the season while all 9 teams are still in the competition?

[ollieclarets8]

If there’s 9 teams in Europe next season does that mean they’ll basically be no Saturday Premier League Games at the start of the season while all 9 teams are still in the competition?

I hope we're playing all of them in our first 9 games!

[CrosspoolClarets]

Just seen the clip of the incident with who sounds like Ally McCoist summarising.

As he said in that clip, it is a goal.

No doubts a huge error at 0-0 with only 17 minutes left, no doubts the ref should have waited before blowing, no doubts the big clubs almost always get the decisions (e.g. a too fast whistle at Old Trafford in favour of Man U that rendered VAR moot) because the refs are too scared of these clubs and their influence.

It is a scandal, but one that as ever will be covered up by simply saying human error, nothing more to see.

We will have this kind of farce to come, again, like we did at Forest and elsewhere last time. It isn’t a level playing field.

[Rileybobs]

The ball was in the back of the net before anyone could react to the whistle blowing.

By the letter of the law I understand why the decision was given, but no one can say it was the "right" one. It's easy to blame the ref and say he should play on, but does that mean the referee stops giving decisions beyond the half way line? Because I can't understand how you establish a cut off point for - don't give a decision incase it ends up as a goal at some point in the future.

I haven’t seen the incident yet, but if the ref has stopped play then there’s nothing VAR can do. I suppose refs already can stop giving decisions beyond the halfway line, and do so when they play advantage. If I’m picturing this incident correctly then surely the ref should have waited for the ball to hit the net before blowing, like the ref should when Barnes scored at Elland Road a few seasons ago. But perhaps they’re told not to.

As quoon says though, it just shows another reason why video refereeing to such an extent is not compatible with a very fluid game like football.

[TheFamilyCat]

If there’s 9 teams in Europe next season does that mean they’ll basically be no Saturday Premier League Games at the start of the season while all 9 teams are still in the competition?

No, because not all of the nine will be playing on Thursdays.

[Vegas Claret]

If anyone hasn't seen it.....
https://x.com/TRFHenry/status/1926680163720314988

[Jakubclaret]

Just seen the clip of the incident with who sounds like Ally McCoist summarising.

As he said in that clip, it is a goal.

No doubts a huge error at 0-0 with only 17 minutes left, no doubts the ref should have waited before blowing, no doubts the big clubs almost always get the decisions (e.g. a too fast whistle at Old Trafford in favour of Man U that rendered VAR moot) because the refs are too scared of these clubs and their influence.

It is a scandal, but one that as ever will be covered up by simply saying human error, nothing more to see.

We will have this kind of farce to come, again, like we did at Forest and elsewhere last time. It isn’t a level playing field.

The systemic failures aren't influenced by bias more plain incompetence. Far too many examples of the smaller clubs benefiting from dodgy decisions although as BFC fans it's a notion we popular subscribe to.

[boyyanno]

I haven’t seen the incident yet, but if the ref has stopped play then there’s nothing VAR can do. I suppose refs already can stop giving decisions beyond the halfway line, and do so when they play advantage. If I’m picturing this incident correctly then surely the ref should have waited for the ball to hit the net before blowing, like the ref should when Barnes scored at Elland Road a few seasons ago. But perhaps they’re told not to.

As quoon says though, it just shows another reason why video refereeing to such an extent is not compatible with a very fluid game like football.

I agree in isolation he shouldn't have blown (he got it wrong anyway as it wasn't a foul), but I think it's a flaw with VAR that it can't be used to see wether the whistle blowing impacted the game.

Refs do give advantage when they see a foul but they also pull it back for a free kick, it's the complete opposite when they think the player with the ball has committed an offence, I don't think there's any rules around playing on in that situation which seems like a massive problem to me. You can score from nearly anywhere on a football pitch, at some point the referee just can't give decisions anymore.

[RVclaret]

Seems like the same situation as the Ben Mee - Meslier - Barnes goal at Leeds when Rob Jones blew before the ball went into the net, when it clearly wasn’t a foul, but therefore VAR couldn’t intervene.

[Goliath]

You can never automate VAR for decisions like the second goal Sheffield United scored yesterday - and whether a player is interfering with playing.

That's impossible.

If VAR says its undecided then it can come back to the referee's call.
He'd still be there but as a secondary decision maker.

[Rileybobs]

I agree in isolation he shouldn't have blown (he got it wrong anyway as it wasn't a foul), but I think it's a flaw with VAR that it can't be used to see wether the whistle blowing impacted the game.

Refs do give advantage when they see a foul but they also pull it back for a free kick, it's the complete opposite when they think the player with the ball has committed an offence, I don't think there's any rules around playing on in that situation which seems like a massive problem to me. You can score from nearly anywhere on a football pitch, at some point the referee just can't give decisions anymore.

Either that or we just accept that there will be incorrect decisions like today that VAR can do nothing about. The outcome of this incident would have been exactly the same without VAR.

[KRBFC]

The referee didn’t give Villa anything all game long, clear Villa free kick on the edge of Uniteds box, United break and win a penalty.

[Spijed]

Why was Martinez sent off but Henderson wasn't last weekend?

Both strikers going in similar directions.

[elwaclaret]

Not heard any commentator say anything other than the disallowed goal should have stood. Really not looking forward to seeing us victims of this again next season.

[ChrisG]

They had a goal disallowed, basically the keeper didn't have it in two hands, Villa player nips in and puts it in the net. Ref blew as the ball was on it's way in to the net as he judged it as a foul.

VAR couldn't interfere as the ref had blown. I disagree with those that are hanging the ref out to dry, he's there to give decisions as he sees them.

I think VAR should check to see if the blowing of the whistle impacted the game. Realistically there shouldn't be a grey area where VAR can't get involved imo.

The keeper doesn't need to have both hands on the ball to be in control, one is sufficient.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-go ... misconduct

[Hibsclaret]

Why was Martinez sent off but Henderson wasn't last weekend?

Both strikers going in similar directions.

The hilarious thing being that the Haaland one was not a goal scoring opportunity but the Hojlund one was. Couldn’t hit a barn door and it’s a goal scoring opportunity.

[bfcmik]

I agree in isolation he shouldn't have blown (he got it wrong anyway as it wasn't a foul), but I think it's a flaw with VAR that it can't be used to see wether the whistle blowing impacted the game.

Refs do give advantage when they see a foul but they also pull it back for a free kick, it's the complete opposite when they think the player with the ball has committed an offence, I don't think there's any rules around playing on in that situation which seems like a massive problem to me. You can score from nearly anywhere on a football pitch, at some point the referee just can't give decisions anymore.

Do we really need the game to get to American Football match times? 8pm kick-offs still playing at midnight, or worse? Referees tend to do a decent job on the whole (though you wouldn't think so to read any football message board) though, as you would expect, some are better than others. In a very fast moving environment they are expected to make instant decisions, determine whether a player is play-acting, decide whether a contact or handball was deliberate and interfered with the flow of the game and even who won a throw in as the line assistant no longer flags an indication. Of course, many decisions, and even many key decisions, will be subjective - but the referee gets ONE look to make a ruling. Which is where VAR should come in, but that system is flawed because PGMOL don't want to stand by the original premise of 'clear and obvious' referee errors. They make more money by taking more second guesses, hence the excessive delays to their judgements.

[claretspice]

Just seen the clip of the incident with who sounds like Ally McCoist summarising.

As he said in that clip, it is a goal.

No doubts a huge error at 0-0 with only 17 minutes left, no doubts the ref should have waited before blowing, no doubts the big clubs almost always get the decisions (e.g. a too fast whistle at Old Trafford in favour of Man U that rendered VAR moot) because the refs are too scared of these clubs and their influence.

It is a scandal, but one that as ever will be covered up by simply saying human error, nothing more to see.

We will have this kind of farce to come, again, like we did at Forest and elsewhere last time. It isn’t a level playing field.

I mean, it is human error, one of those things, nothing more to see. The referee has made two mistakes - one, to deem it a foul in the first place, the second to blow the whistle. The first is a wholly understandable misinterpretation of events based on the refs split second viewing, and arguably is why VAT exists. The second is a process failure but for which the first error could have been overruled. But unfortuately, in a human game, that sort of error will happen every once in a while. It's just unfortunate it happened in such a big game.

[Roosterbooster]

Did the ref make the correct decision? No
Can you forgive him for thinking its a foul? Yes
Are VAR allowed to overturn it? No
Should the ref have blown when the ball was clearly going in the net? No

I think Villa are right to feel aggrieved here
I'd be furious

£100m just because the ref didn't bother to wait half a second for what was clearly an imminent dead ball scenario

[BurnleyFC]

Didn’t this same referee send one of our players off incorrectly, against Chelsea I think?

He’s a complete clown.

[Walton]

The ref's call was correct as the laws stand, I don't get why people are bleating.

The keeper had contact with the ball when it was kicked. There's nothing at all in the rules about two hands.

[Roosterbooster]

The ref's call was correct as the laws stand, I don't get why people are bleating.

The keeper had contact with the ball when it was kicked. There's nothing at all in the rules about two hands.

There is something in the rules about 2 hands
Although there are other ways for a goalkeeper to be in control of the ball

But the keeper did not have contact when it was kicked. It bounced off his hand. Either way, if you look at the rules, it wasn't a foul

Rules:
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

-the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
-holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
-bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s).

[CrosspoolClarets]

If the ref had got it correct he wouldn't have apologised to Emery afterwards, which he did.

It was an innocent mistake by a good but raw ref, one local to me who was a teacher before a ref and he deserves a fair break.

The scandal is how PGMOL appoint refs to these games, in a fashion which disadvantages many smaller clubs. That match today obviously needed an experienced head in front of 70000+ for a match the away team needed to win. In contrast to Chelsea who got Anthony Taylor for their away match, the experience to ensure the fevered crowd didn’t affect decision making. That is the basis of Villa’s formal complaint.

[Winstonswhite]

Football will never be perfect. Sh!t happens. Get over it.

[Rowls]

There have been far more blatant errors than this that have been rubber stamped by VAR.

I think it ought to have been allowed to stand but Villa still went on to concede two goals to a relegation candidate side. They'd be better off looking at their own failings than griping.

[jos]

Later in the game commentary they changed their minds when they learnt that the goalie didn’t need have hold of the ball but just needs to be on control of it, which he was before he was tackled.

So VAR would have agreed with the referee.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Didn’t this same referee send one of our players off incorrectly, against Chelsea I think?

He’s a complete clown.

No he didn't.

[Roosterbooster]

Later in the game commentary they changed their minds when they learnt that the goalie didn’t need have hold of the ball but just needs to be on control of it, which he was before he was tackled.

You need to watch it again

He isn't in control. The ball bounces off his hands before Rodgers touches it

[BurnleyFC]

No he didn't.

Was he VAR then?