Starting 11

[willsclarets]

Based on my assumptions on the 3-4-2-1 / 5-4-1 that will be the ‘base’ system (other variations within a game are possible when in possession, eg the right ‘wing back’ here sits a bit, forming a back 4, with Hartman / Pires tasked with pushing higher and joining attacks more, we saw this exact system v Southampton in the cup and v Luton on the opening day). Plenty of options in attacking areas, haven’t got space to add Ramsey/Tchaouna/Tresor on there. If you play Hannibal in the left attacking midfield role, with a new CM, you get extra legs for midfield, same with Ramsey.

I don't mind that at all, but Ekdal or Worrall I wouldn't like in there as the centre/centre back. And we've so many options in the attacking midfield/wide areas for two spots, particularly if Hannibal is competing there with a new CM alongside Cullen. That's fine, but we need some players out the door especially after signing Tchaouna and JBL. Tchaouna is a head scratcher with this formation in mind, who is a big outlay in terms of cost for us, and in this system more or less gets no game time you'd think? Less of a worry, but at 35 a WB position is a big ask in the premier league for Walker, and I'd worry about Roberts in that position also.

[RVclaret]

I don't mind that at all, but Ekdal or Worrall I wouldn't like in there as the centre/centre back. And we've so many options in the attacking midfield/wide areas for two spots, particularly if Hannibal is competing there with a new CM alongside Cullen. That's fine, but we need some players out the door especially after signing Tchaouna and JBL. Tchaouna is a head scratcher with this formation in mind, who is a big outlay in terms of cost for us, and in this system more or less gets no game time you'd think? Less of a worry, but at 35 a WB position is a big ask in the premier league for Walker, and I'd worry about Roberts in that position also.

I think Ekdal and Worrall are our best current options at central centre back. Both the best in the air of the ones we have, and both probably have the best leadership / organisational traits, which are important for this position.

Tchaouna could go at the right inside attacker, or right wing back / hybrid right wing back/winger, depending on game state and opposition etc.

Walker wouldn’t be a right wing back as such, he can still get forward, but would be more restricted, much like Sonne and Roberts played against Southampton & Luton away last season in that role.

[Jakubs Tash]

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Walker wouldn’t be a right wing back as such, he can still get forward, but would be more restricted, much like Sonne and Roberts played against Southampton & Luton away last season in that role.

Roberts at Luton and Sonne at Southampton played very different roles. If you want to use those games as examples then Sonne played the role of Vitinho at Luton and Roberts played the role of Egan-Riley at Southampton.

[RVclaret]

Roberts at Luton and Sonne at Southampton played very different roles. If you want to use those games as examples then Sonne played the role of Vitinho at Luton and Roberts played the role of Egan-Riley at Southampton.

Sonne played right ‘wing back’ in a 5 at Southampton, out of possession, but in possession stayed quite restricted in a back 4 (compared to Pires on the other side who was more a left winger in possession). Thats the role I was attempting to describe Walker would be fine for.

Agree re. Roberts at Luton, got that wrong, that was Vitinho, as you say, who played a hybrid winger / wing back (slightly diff to what’s described above) and Roberts tucked inside when out of possession to make a 5.

[No Ney Never]

Adaptability is going to be very important as formation and shape changes several times within a game.
Let's say we start 3-5-2, then after 15 mins the opposition change it up to exploit one part of the pitch, we then have to go 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 or any other combination you could think of. We need a starting 11 that can cope with this without the need for substitutes.
Equally, we may need the flexibility to exploit weaknesses in the opposition.

Take for example an industry technician, who once upon a time were either mechanical or electrical skilled. Sometimes a mechanical technician would turn up but unable to fix something because of an electrical fault, the machine would remain off until a sparky was available to fixed it. These days businesses want technical staff who are both mechanical and electrical qualified, even better if they can also program machines. They need their people to have the skills to deal with any situation, multi skilled is all the rage.

[ollieclarets8]

Trafford
Walker Tuanzebe Esteve Hartman
Cullen Laurent
Tchaouna Edwards Anthony
Flemming

[willsclarets]

Adaptability is going to be very important as formation and shape changes several times within a game.
Let's say we start 3-5-2, then after 15 mins the opposition change it up to exploit one part of the pitch, we then have to go 4-4-2 or 5-3-2 or 5-4-1 or any other combination you could think of. We need a starting 11 that can cope with this without the need for substitutes.
Equally, we may need the flexibility to exploit weaknesses in the opposition.

Take for example an industry technician, who once upon a time were either mechanical or electrical skilled. Sometimes a mechanical technician would turn up but unable to fix something because of an electrical fault, the machine would remain off until a sparky was available to fixed it. These days businesses want technical staff who are both mechanical and electrical qualified, even better if they can also program machines. They need their people to have the skills to deal with any situation, multi skilled is all the rage.

I respectfully disagree with this, to a degree at least! One benefit (which unfortunately benefits the bigger teams more), is that you get more substitutes in the premier league. This allows you to be more adaptable in a game and exploit weaknesses that become apparent in real time. And while formations are always fluid, we are playing some of the best teams in the world. The reality is we have to be hard to beat first and foremost like we were last season. And we were under Dyche, everyone knew how we would set up, but that didn't stop us getting brilliant result. That requires a level of simplicity and continuity in our backline - everyone knows their job. I agree you need flexibility, particularly with the ball, but I wouldn't want to be flitting between a back 3/5 and a 4 constantly. If the opposition change it up, it probably means they're not currently finding a solution. So you have to be aware of that, but also it means you're doing something right.

As for the analogy, I prefer it when people actually have specialisms! I love the Esteve loves defending. Do I want him being more ambitious with the ball? Probably not. Ideally you'd have a ball playing defender next to him like CJ (or a fit Beyer). Similarly in attack, if it's not working we have more than enough players on the bench to change style or formation up the pitch.

I do know what you're saying, I guess my objection is the opposite is also important; familiarity, consistency, focus and clarity in the minds of the players.

[No Ney Never]

I respectfully disagree with this, to a degree at least! One benefit (which unfortunately benefits the bigger teams more), is that you get more substitutes in the premier league. This allows you to be more adaptable in a game and exploit weaknesses that become apparent in real time. And while formations are always fluid, we are playing some of the best teams in the world. The reality is we have to be hard to beat first and foremost like we were last season. And we were under Dyche, everyone knew how we would set up, but that didn't stop us getting brilliant result. That requires a level of simplicity and continuity in our backline - everyone knows their job. I agree you need flexibility, particularly with the ball, but I wouldn't want to be flitting between a back 3/5 and a 4 constantly. If the opposition change it up, it probably means they're not currently finding a solution. So you have to be aware of that, but also it means you're doing something right.

As for the analogy, I prefer it when people actually have specialisms! I love the Esteve loves defending. Do I want him being more ambitious with the ball? Probably not. Ideally you'd have a ball playing defender next to him like CJ (or a fit Beyer). Similarly in attack, if it's not working we have more than enough players on the bench to change style or formation up the pitch.

I do know what you're saying, I guess my objection is the opposite is also important; familiarity, consistency, focus and clarity in the minds of the players.

You can't just substitute your way through a game that ebbs and flows, you don't get enough opportunities.
Change happens much quicker in today's game and you need the ability on the pitch to cope, only when a manager doesn't think they have the required skillset, should they need to substitute.
As for 'under Dyche', the game continues to evolve. Dyche played with Pope, a fine keeper for us, yet today a keeper is expected to not only stop shots, but be good with the ball to feet and even play as a sweeper when required.

[Winstonswhite]

Trafford
Walker Tuanzebe Esteve Hartman
Cullen Laurent
Tchaouna Edwards Anthony
Flemming

Jesus, we’re in trouble

[ollieclarets8]

Jesus, we’re in trouble

What don't you like about it?

[Winstonswhite]

Lack of creativity and more specifically, goals

[expoultryboy]

You think a midfield of Cullen , Laurent and Edwards are good/strong enough in the prem ?

[ollieclarets8]

Lack of creativity and more specifically, goals

Then at least reply with an improvement.

Where does your team score the goals you are lacking?

[expoultryboy]

Hopefully more signings to come .

[jdrobbo]

Hannibal…one of the very first names on the teamsheet for me.

[jrgbfc]

This thread highlights how far short we are at present. Massive few weeks coming up.

[Buxtonclaret]

Hannibal…one of the very first names on the teamsheet for me.

Came on a hell of a lot, last season.
Really looking forward to seeing how he does in this league.

[Winstonswhite]

Then at least reply with an improvement.

Where does your team score the goals you are lacking?

I wasn’t disagreeing with your starting eleven.

[willsclarets]

You can't just substitute your way through a game that ebbs and flows, you don't get enough opportunities.
Change happens much quicker in today's game and you need the ability on the pitch to cope, only when a manager doesn't think they have the required skillset, should they need to substitute.
As for 'under Dyche', the game continues to evolve. Dyche played with Pope, a fine keeper for us, yet today a keeper is expected to not only stop shots, but be good with the ball to feet and even play as a sweeper when required.

Pope's still doing alright, isn't he? And in terms of the GK being a sweeper and building from the back, I'm not sure that's been terribly successful for teams without the quality to make it work! In terms of flexibility in players' ability to adapt, it's nothing new. I mean total football pioneered by the Dutch decades ago, is literally the idea that players positioning is fluid, and every player is interchangeable. Even if you're a Spurs or Newcastle, that's difficult to aspire to. Where I agree is that we need to find different ways to hurt teams, but we have to be realistic about who we are and what we can be good at. The reality is we don't have the money to buy players who can be as adaptable as you'd like. It doesn't mean we have to lack ambition in a game, but in my opinion at least, it means you have to know exactly what your job is when we don't have the ball. Because we won't have it most of the time. I suppose that's the distinction I'd make here: when we have the ball, I'd like us to be adaptable.

When we don't, I want the players to immediately know where they should be. And that's my worry about changing in and out of a back 3/5/4 as suggested. It complicates the process of players knowing what to do, and how to do it.

[No Ney Never]

Pope's still doing alright, isn't he? And in terms of the GK being a sweeper and building from the back, I'm not sure that's been terribly successful for teams without the quality to make it work! In terms of flexibility in players' ability to adapt, it's nothing new. I mean total football pioneered by the Dutch decades ago, is literally the idea that players positioning is fluid, and every player is interchangeable. Even if you're a Spurs or Newcastle, that's difficult to aspire to. Where I agree is that we need to find different ways to hurt teams, but we have to be realistic about who we are and what we can be good at. The reality is we don't have the money to buy players who can be as adaptable as you'd like. It doesn't mean we have to lack ambition in a game, but in my opinion at least, it means you have to know exactly what your job is when we don't have the ball. Because we won't have it most of the time. I suppose that's the distinction I'd make here: when we have the ball, I'd like us to be adaptable.

When we don't, I want the players to immediately know where they should be. And that's my worry about changing in and out of a back 3/5/4 as suggested. It complicates the process of players knowing what to do, and how to do it.

Who said anything about building from the back? A goalie needs to be good with their feet to receive and for any sort of distribution, long or short.
As for the rest of your comment, you want us to be adaptable but also rigid. Our players train for, and are capable of adapting to the different formations that are instructed by SP from the technical area during the game. They don't go into a game not knowing what to do if we have to switch from one formation to another, what do you think they do all week?

[willsclarets]

Who said anything about building from the back? A goalie needs to be good with their feet to receive and for any sort of distribution, long or short.
As for the rest of your comment, you want us to be adaptable but also rigid. Our players train for, and are capable of adapting to the different formations that are instructed by SP from the technical area during the game. They don't go into a game not knowing what to do if we have to switch from one formation to another, what do you think they do all week?

Ok you're missing my point completely in response to your initial post, let's leave it there.

[No Ney Never]

Ok you're missing my point completely in response to your initial post, let's leave it there.

That's because no one has any idea what your point was in response to my initial post. Perhaps it is best we just leave it there.

[Darnhill Claret]

I think we will see a better version of Hannibal this time around.
I think we have improved our squad and therefore our starting eleven, although I think we should help the manager and all our players by looking at our starting squad.
I think Parker tries to be positive in games and with our forward thinking squad members.
I think that squad rotation during the season, but particularly in games, is part of his squad management and keeping non starters reasonably happy, because they know they will get game time.
So you will notice that barring injuries, he tries to keep his defensive unit tight and keep them together, with a minimum of substitutions.

Attacking midfield players, and wide players are the most substituted, to change our style as each sub brings their own individual style, and we also need fresh legs in those areas. Also those players starting on the bench think they are as entitled to as many minutes as possible. They also each bring something different to the team.
It also helps some players to know that they don't have to pace themselves for 90 minutes every game.