Have you joined Burnley FC ISA yet?

[BurnleyFC ISA]

Joined

Wonderful to hear! Welcome

[BurnleyFC ISA]

And again, thanks to those who have joined us in the last 24 hours.

If you haven’t signed up yet, why not? We want to represent supporters.

[Elizabeth]

Holding back until you have regular meetings with senior members of the football club board and have representation on the Fan Advisory board.

[BurnleyFC ISA]

Holding back until you have regular meetings with senior members of the football club board and have representation on the Fan Advisory board.

Thank you for your response, Elizabeth.

[Orangebernard]

Holding back until you have regular meetings with senior members of the football club board and have representation on the Fan Advisory board.

Hi Elizabeth, as I understand it the FAB consists of 22 or 23 people that are hand picked by the club based on criteria unknown or at least quite vague. Despite the club stating that the FAB are ‘independent’ I don’t see how this can be as they are selected by the club as previously stated. The BFCISA folks are keen to continually stress they are independent of the club or any other groups and therefore I cannot see them joining the FAB whether they are invited or not. If I were you I’d join the BFCISA now if that is the only thing stopping you. I hope this helps.

[Elizabeth]

Thanks bernard.

Let me firstly go on record as saying I have no time for the way the club was taken over, or the new acquisition of the Spanish club. I fear our club will sink in debt before the end of this decade. I don't see this as defeatist , it will only take a couple of really bad seasons and already we've had 2 relegations under them. We cannot compete with the big league and no amount of posturing by the club will make me change my mind.

I read on here all the time about the uselessness of the FAB and will of course make my own mind up after researching how they go on at other clubs. There is an inherent gene on this board that criticises the current owners no matter what they do. This can be seen clearly this week on the thread about the Cricketfield stand changes. Part of that gene is being built in to the initial structure of the BFCISA which is part of the reason I'm holding back.

I cannot see how one group of organised fans cannot work with another without calling them.

I could go on and I hope the Burnley FC ISA can do more than raise issues about the increase of ticket prices for pensioners , the price of a pie etc .

[BurnleyFC ISA]

Thanks bernard.

Let me firstly go on record as saying I have no time for the way the club was taken over, or the new acquisition of the Spanish club. I fear our club will sink in debt before the end of this decade. I don't see this as defeatist , it will only take a couple of really bad seasons and already we've had 2 relegations under them. We cannot compete with the big league and no amount of posturing by the club will make me change my mind.

I read on here all the time about the uselessness of the FAB and will of course make my own mind up after researching how they go on at other clubs. There is an inherent gene on this board that criticises the current owners no matter what they do. This can be seen clearly this week on the thread about the Cricketfield stand changes. Part of that gene is being built in to the initial structure of the BFCISA which is part of the reason I'm holding back.

I cannot see how one group of organised fans cannot work with another without calling them.

I could go on and I hope the Burnley FC ISA can do more than raise issues about the increase of ticket prices for pensioners , the price of a pie etc .

Elizabeth, BFC ISA, as outlined in our constitution and values, very much wants to work with the club in holding a dialogue. We’re pleased that the club have acknowledged us recently and we look forward to meeting with them. We absolutely haven’t set up to go around beating the club and its staff with a stick. We want to be a voice for the wider fanbase and we’re happy to take opinions from any supporters or groups. We are in contact with the trust and we have spoken to members of the FAB. We are not here to cause unrest. We can just see the potential of closing the gap between clubs and supporters, where perhaps it has drifted a little. Burnley FC is a wonderful football club and it’s our duty to make sure it’s protected for all to enjoy. Thank you finally, for your response to the previous post, where you outlined your stance.

[Inchy]

And again, thanks to those who have joined us in the last 24 hours.

If you haven’t signed up yet, why not? We want to represent supporters.

Because when i listened to the uptheclarets podcast I wasn’t filled with confidence.

That podcast was an ideal opportunity to actually call out the club on some of the sh*t they have done, and how the ISA could help. Instead the representative praised the clubs fan engagement, making me think it’s either a weak organisation, or they are more interested in getting ‘close’ to the club, than actually doing anything.

I get you have to be diplomatic, but I doubt Alan pace listened to that podcast, so was an opportunity missed

[Elizabeth]

My impression up to now has been that of course you want to work with the club , but not as closely with the FAB ( another group of Burnley fans). I read that other clubs ISAs have representation on FABs and I will be looking for you to do similar.

I think you want to achieve things other groups of fans don't and I applaud you. I do not wish to appear of a patronising nature because I'm not. You have made a good first impression with me but I still have doubts about one or two of the people initially making decisions in your new group. I think they are too set in their ways and complain about things you will not be able to change.

Concentrate on the awful communication rather than things ticket prices and ticket concessions that have been frozen for years in the recent past is my good advice.

[ClaretTony]

Because when i listened to the uptheclarets podcast I wasn’t filled with confidence.

That podcast was an ideal opportunity to actually call out the club on some of the sh*t they have done, and how the ISA could help. Instead the representative praised the clubs fan engagement, making me think it’s either a weak organisation, or they are more interested in getting ‘close’ to the club, than actually doing anything.

I get you have to be diplomatic, but I doubt Alan pace listened to that podcast, so was an opportunity missed

Up the Clarets doesn’t do a podcast but if you are referring to Simon & James on From the Bee Hole podcast then you have totally misunderstood their reasons for being on there and the reasons for them being invited. I’m sorry you thought it was to start calling the club on air, that is not how fan engagement works nor how it should work.

The ISA is there to represent its members and the wider fan base by communicating, engaging and consulting with the club. I thought the interview they did with Greavesy highlighted that perfectly. And they very definitely didn’t praise the club’s current fan engagement.

Thankfully most people seemed to understand its purpose and it gave the membership a boost. The members will this week have seen how it works and how it should work following the issues on Monday with the Spurs ticket problems and the cricket field stand changes etc.

[ClaretTony]

My impression up to now has been that of course you want to work with the club , but not as closely with the FAB ( another group of Burnley fans). I read that other clubs ISAs have representation on FABs and I will be looking for you to do similar.

I think you want to achieve things other groups of fans don't and I applaud you. I do not wish to appear of a patronising nature because I'm not. You have made a good first impression with me but I still have doubts about one or two of the people initially making decisions in your new group. I think they are too set in their ways and complain about things you will not be able to change.

Concentrate on the awful communication rather than things ticket prices and ticket concessions that have been frozen for years in the recent past is my good advice.

ISA representation on FABs at other clubs is where the FAB is independent of the club and where FAB members are elected by supporters.

I’m not sure what you are referring to re one or two making decisions who are set in their ways. The steering group have set it up, are working towards an AGM after which everyone will have been elected. They are not making decisions for themselves but asking the membership who are directing them.

[Elizabeth]

That's good information about the distinction with other FABs. Similarly I'm uncomfortable with the club electing our FAB members as they need more independence.

i needed reminding that the steering group are simply holding the fort until the AGM.
While all are clearly big Burnley football fans like most , I hope those elected at the AGM can each provide clearer visions of what their priorities are in relation to how they would like the football club to look. There has to be some leadership to make this work in my opinion.

If it's going to be a case of the membership directing elected individuals then surely that makes any elected committee simply messengers.

Obviously any further information to help me understand what exactly the ISA is about is always helpful.

[Elizabeth]

I have just read my preceding post and I probably do need more help so I'll just wait until everything is up and running properly as was always my intention. Barry Kirby is a big plus obviously

[Foshiznik]

If it's going to be a case of the membership directing elected individuals then surely that makes any elected committee simply messengers.

With all due respect, isn’t that a good thing and exactly what they should be doing by representing the ISA members? It’s certainly what I am expecting, but maybe I have misunderstood.

[ClaretTony]

That's good information about the distinction with other FABs. Similarly I'm uncomfortable with the club electing our FAB members as they need more independence.

i needed reminding that the steering group are simply holding the fort until the AGM.
While all are clearly big Burnley football fans like most , I hope those elected at the AGM can each provide clearer visions of what their priorities are in relation to how they would like the football club to look. There has to be some leadership to make this work in my opinion.

If it's going to be a case of the membership directing elected individuals then surely that makes any elected committee simply messengers.

Obviously any further information to help me understand what exactly the ISA is about is always helpful.

I think you have misunderstood to an extent. Far from being messengers, the current steering group have firstly worked hard to get the ISA up and running, putting things in place. It launched two months ago and one of its objectives now is to make all the arrangements for the first AGM which will come during next season. They aren’t messengers but will, as committee members at any democratic organisation should be, directed by its members but that doesn’t make them just messengers.

From my point of view, I got involved and have seen so many positives. Firstly, the others who came forward to help have been brilliant to be involved with. I only really knew two of them before we started and other than Zoom meetings I’ve still to meet most of them. Then the number of people who have become members, it’s been enthusing as has how so many of them have got involved this week with the issues previously mentioned.

You always have doubts when setting up something like this but it’s been so positive. Me? I just get on with a lot of the admin which sort of came about when I offered to deal with the bank.

These are just my thoughts I must add, not those of the steering group. But I really do feel so positive about it and think it can be a real positive for our supporters.

[Wo Didi]

I joined a week or so ago and I think it's a great idea and something I'm proud to be a (very small) part of.

[Bangers&Mash]

It’s a really interesting thing to view from a distance.

I’d class myself as more of a fan than a supporter, so the recent issues with away ticket allocations and stadium changes that have understandably upset some people don’t directly affect me.

I actually like a lot of the board’s attempts to grow the club’s brand, but again—most of this doesn’t impact me negatively.

Presumably the group will have elected representatives with some form of manifesto? I’ll be keeping an eye on that to see if anyone speaks for fans like me, but realistically, in a fair democracy, I probably wouldn’t expect to be strongly represented—and that’s fine.

That’s not a criticism of the group, just an honest reflection. From where I’m sat, it’s easy to interpret the group as being quite negative or board-bashing—but it’s also easy for me to see the positives in the club’s modernisation efforts, because I’m not the one whose seat is being moved without consultation, or seeing long-standing away day loyalty seemingly go unrewarded.

[FeedTheArf]

If it's going to be a case of the membership directing elected individuals then surely that makes any elected committee simply messengers.

Or the very definition of a democratic organisation.

[Row x]

Well done, the more members it has, the stronger it will be.

That's true, do we know how many members are currently signed up?

[LucasBFC1]

Do you have to pay to join?

[ClaretTony]

Do you have to pay to join?

It’s £5

[bfc-njr-2017]

It’s a really interesting thing to view from a distance.

I’d class myself as more of a fan than a supporter, so the recent issues with away ticket allocations and stadium changes that have understandably upset some people don’t directly affect me.

I actually like a lot of the board’s attempts to grow the club’s brand, but again—most of this doesn’t impact me negatively.

Presumably the group will have elected representatives with some form of manifesto? I’ll be keeping an eye on that to see if anyone speaks for fans like me, but realistically, in a fair democracy, I probably wouldn’t expect to be strongly represented—and that’s fine.

That’s not a criticism of the group, just an honest reflection. From where I’m sat, it’s easy to interpret the group as being quite negative or board-bashing—but it’s also easy for me to see the positives in the club’s modernisation efforts, because I’m not the one whose seat is being moved without consultation, or seeing long-standing away day loyalty seemingly go unrewarded.

Hi mate,

Nathan here, one of the steering group members, It feels like I very much fall into a similar category to yourself about actually being appreciative of the modernisation efforts from the current board. I’m actually quite impressed with some of the commercial growth from the club, not just domestically, but internationally.

Most of my concerns have usually been about consultation and clarity of decision-making from the board, which granted I understand that no football board can never get this perfect I would like to just see some of the decisions made by the board go through correct consultation with more fans the hold steadfast, independent views from the club. At first I was very confident the FAB could be a very good tool to get the views of the wider fun base directly onto the lap of board members, however this is quickly come to the forefront that the FAB in Place in its current guise isn’t quite as transparent and effective as it should be.

For me, my main reason being involved in Burnley FC ISA used to be a part of a group that can protect key heritage assets with firm and effective pushback if required.

As fans as we don’t want to sleepwalk for five years after being distracted by shiny LED ad boards, famous NFL players and quirky transfer announcement videos, then look back and see that actually right under our nose is slowly and surely the Burnley brand and heritage as we know it has been changed without any sort of pushback.

Without rambling on, I think my point to all this is you will be represented by this ISA, I’m certainly not anti-ALK, I actually think for the most part of doing really good things for the club. We just want to help them remember that they’ve bought a community asset not a corporate entity that can be messed around with on a whim.

[Bangers&Mash]

Hi mate,

Nathan here, one of the steering group members, It feels like I very much fall into a similar category to yourself about actually being appreciative of the modernisation efforts from the current board. I’m actually quite impressed with some of the commercial growth from the club, not just domestically, but internationally.

Most of my concerns have usually been about consultation and clarity of decision-making from the board, which granted I understand that no football board can never get this perfect I would like to just see some of the decisions made by the board go through correct consultation with more fans the hold steadfast, independent views from the club. At first I was very confident the FAB could be a very good tool to get the views of the wider fun base directly onto the lap of board members, however this is quickly come to the forefront that the FAB in Place in its current guise isn’t quite as transparent and effective as it should be.

For me, my main reason being involved in Burnley FC ISA used to be a part of a group that can protect key heritage assets with firm and effective pushback if required.

As fans as we don’t want to sleepwalk for five years after being distracted by shiny LED ad boards, famous NFL players and quirky transfer announcement videos, then look back and see that actually right under our nose is slowly and surely the Burnley brand and heritage as we know it has been changed without any sort of pushback.

Without rambling on, I think my point to all this is you will be represented by this ISA, I’m certainly not anti-ALK, I actually think for the most part of doing really good things for the club. We just want to help them remember that they’ve bought a community asset not a corporate entity that can be messed around with on a whim.

Thanks for your reply, Nathan

I think I haven't made my point well. I know you will have a large range of supporters and their views - like all democracies you will have crazies on either side with the vast majority of folk in the middle with slight leans.

My issue is more about being less of an active supporter my views and wishes are more in the minority. Shirt sponsorship as an example I don't care who sponsors the shirt as I'll never buy one, but on the other hand I really wish the club would sell more discreet club clothing. In a working democracy I have to appreciate that it's a less of a priority

[Inchy]

Up the Clarets doesn’t do a podcast but if you are referring to Simon & James on From the Bee Hole podcast then you have totally misunderstood their reasons for being on there and the reasons for them being invited. I’m sorry you thought it was to start calling the club on air, that is not how fan engagement works nor how it should work.

The ISA is there to represent its members and the wider fan base by communicating, engaging and consulting with the club. I thought the interview they did with Greavesy highlighted that perfectly. And they very definitely didn’t praise the club’s current fan engagement.

Thankfully most people seemed to understand its purpose and it gave the membership a boost. The members will this week have seen how it works and how it should work following the issues on Monday with the Spurs ticket problems and the cricket field stand changes etc.

Fair enough if I missed the point but the club was absolutely praised for fan engagement. I can give you the exact point if you want, although I CBA going back and listening to it.

I just thought it sounded a bit weak. We all know the issues, but the representative avoided them

[ClaretTony]

Fair enough if I missed the point but the club was absolutely praised for fan engagement. I can give you the exact point if you want, although I CBA going back and listening to it.

I just thought it sounded a bit weak. We all know the issues, but the representative avoided them

Not sure what you've been listening to

[ClaretTony]

Fair enough if I missed the point but the club was absolutely praised for fan engagement. I can give you the exact point if you want, although I CBA going back and listening to it.

I just thought it sounded a bit weak. We all know the issues, but the representative avoided them

Inchy - I wish you would go back and find the point. I've just listened to it again and can't find what you are saying.

[Inchy]

Inchy - I wish you would go back and find the point. I've just listened to it again and can't find what you are saying.

I’ve just re listened to it. You’re right I’m talking rubbish, I must have been drunk first time round. I thought they praised club fan engagement but they didn’t, just they acknowledge the club are required to do it.

[Dassey]

What's the £5 ISA member fee going towards ?

[ClaretTony]

What's the £5 ISA member fee going towards ?

I can answer that, it's for admin costs.

[Orangebernard]

What's the £5 ISA member fee going towards ?

It goes towards the administration costs of running such a group. There are things like membership software, and other administrative licences, events to organise that may have venue costs etc. I know for a fact that everyone involved is a volunteer and nobody receives any remuneration. If you are thinking of joining please rest assured it’s a worthwhile venture and the greater the numbers the louder the voice.

[Row x]

It goes towards the administration costs of running such a group. There are things like membership software, and other administrative licences, events to organise that may have venue costs etc. I know for a fact that everyone involved is a volunteer and nobody receives any remuneration. If you are thinking of joining please rest assured it’s a worthwhile venture and the greater the numbers the louder the voice.

Talking about the numbers, how many have joined?

[bfc-njr-2017]

Talking about the numbers, how many have joined?

Well into the hundreds and growing day by day.

[ScottishBorderClaret]

So what I gather from the enail issued after the introductory meeting with the club is that if you have any concerns you should direct t them to the club through the Fan Advisory Board.

[Leisure]

So what I gather from the email issued after the introductory meeting with the club is that if you have any concerns you should direct t them to the club through the Fan Advisory Board.

Which email is this?

[wadeswondergoal]

Which email is this?

The one I assume all member have received this afternoon.

[wadeswondergoal]

Reading it, I assume that any questions the BFCISA has ready to ask the club should be directed through the FAB who are meeting with the club on the 12th August. Following on from that, in future, BFCISA will hopefully deal with the club directly as per other supporters groups.

[ClaretTony]

I’ve read the email and it’s a big step forward having this first meeting. Well done to those who attended on behalf of the ISA.

And as has been said, the membership continues to grow significantly.

[bobinho]

Well contact has been made, so that’s a start. A good start. Hopefully future meetings will be attended properly by the club and points raised by the ISA addressed in a professional manner.
Hopefully, the raising of those points will be equally professional. If the club get the slightest whiff that they are being summoned for a bollocking, then the whole venture will
end very quickly. I’m sure you all don’t need to be told that, but I just thought I’d throw it out there…
Well done to those concerned with the first meeting.

[ClaretTony]

Well contact has been made, so that’s a start. A good start. Hopefully future meetings will be attended properly by the club and points raised by the ISA addressed in a professional manner.
Hopefully, the raising of those points will be equally professional. If the club get the slightest whiff that they are being summoned for a bollocking, then the whole venture will
end very quickly. I’m sure you all don’t need to be told that, but I just thought I’d throw it out there…
Well done to those concerned with the first meeting.

Thanks bobinho for your thoughts. I wasn’t in the meeting so, like you, have received my info from the email. What I can assure you is that the four people who represented the ISA at the meeting will have been very professional.

I’ve known one of the four for over twenty years and I’ve got to know the other three more recently over the last few months via Zoom meetings. I can honestly say we couldn’t be better represented.

[DCWat]

It’ll be interesting to see what the agreed approach is for BFCISA to communicate with the club. Good to read that the suggestion of utilising the FAB was politely and rightly declined, if perhaps slightly concerning, that it was put forward as a suggestion.

Has the club committed to future meetings?

[TsarBomba]

It’ll be interesting to see what the agreed approach is for BFCISA to communicate with the club. Good to read that the suggestion of utilising the FAB was politely and rightly declined, if perhaps slightly concerning, that it was put forward as a suggestion.

Has the club committed to future meetings?

Agree with this. After reading the email just now, I wonder what the response/thoughts are of the FAB members towards the new BFCISA. I imagine there are more than a few FAB members that revel in their position and see the BFCISA as a threat.

[CoolClaret]

Thanks bobinho for your thoughts. I wasn’t in the meeting so, like you, have received my info from the email. What I can assure you is that the four people who represented the ISA at the meeting will have been very professional.

I’ve known one of the four for over twenty years and I’ve got to know the other three more recently over the last few months via Zoom meetings. I can honestly say we couldn’t be better represented.

Fantastic to hear, CT.

I signed up when I heard about Kilby joining as President. It's good to hear that the initial meeting today was a success.

[BurnleyFC ISA]

We’re very keen to keep growing our membership and are overwhelmed by the positive response to BFC ISA so far. Thank you all very much.

[ClaretTony]

Fantastic to hear, CT.

I signed up when I heard about Kilby joining as President. It's good to hear that the initial meeting today was a success.

Barry is such a good bloke and it was brilliant that he agreed to become the president. I know some people joined on the back of that news given it gave the ISA more credibility maybe. Without giving anything away, we are looking at maybe a couple of ex-players becoming vice-presidents too.

[ClaretTony]

I’d just like to add that the meeting with the club, while set up by the steering group with four of them attending, would not have happened but for all of you who have joined. With each person joining, it becomes stronger.

[BigGaz]

I don't think that this cohort of people will adequately reflect the wide ranging demographic that make up our fanbase, the diversity of viewpoints available, and given the way I've seen some of the people I know to be involved with this venture talk about the FAB, quite a snooty affair.

If you can come up with an agenda, tangible goals that are specific, measurable, achievable, and actually add value then I'd be willing to give it another look.

Cheers,
Gaz

[ClaretTony]

I don't think that this cohort of people will adequately reflect the wide ranging demographic that make up our fanbase, the diversity of viewpoints available, and given the way I've seen some of the people I know to be involved with this venture talk about the FAB, quite a snooty affair.

If you can come up with an agenda, tangible goals that are specific, measurable, achievable, and actually add value then I'd be willing to give it another look.

Cheers,
Gaz

The agenda will always be determined by the membership and as I just posted, the bigger the membership, the stronger the organisation.

[CoolClaret]

I don't think that this cohort of people will adequately reflect the wide ranging demographic that make up our fanbase, the diversity of viewpoints available, and given the way I've seen some of the people I know to be involved with this venture talk about the FAB, quite a snooty affair.

If you can come up with an agenda, tangible goals that are specific, measurable, achievable, and actually add value then I'd be willing to give it another look.

Cheers,
Gaz

Yet any of our 'wide-ranging demographic that make up our fanbase' can join the ISA. That's the entire point of it.

[BigGaz]

Yes, but there needs to be targeted advertising, a genuine desire to bring diverse voices on board, and—most importantly—a clear manifesto outlining what the group aims to achieve. In other words, there needs to be evidence that the goal is to work for the benefit of everyone, not just the isa. I'd like to see what plans there are to appeal to a wider demographic, because if it's just an odd post on this forum, or twitter, they could, but they won't.

Otherwise, it’s likely to just become a haven for middle-aged white men who spend three hours in a pool hall sipping mild, trying to one-up each other about how many former players they’re on a first-name basis with—while patting themselves on the back for such epic victories as “bringing back Arcade Fire as the entrance music,” “getting a Scandinavian microbrewery guest ale on rotation,” and, who could forget, “successfully convincing the club to reconsider using the Pride flag as its background during Pride Month.”

[Big Vinny K]

I don't think that this cohort of people will adequately reflect the wide ranging demographic that make up our fanbase, the diversity of viewpoints available, and given the way I've seen some of the people I know to be involved with this venture talk about the FAB, quite a snooty affair.

If you can come up with an agenda, tangible goals that are specific, measurable, achievable, and actually add value then I'd be willing to give it another look.

Cheers,
Gaz

How can you possibly say that when you have no idea what the membership is made up of ?

In terms of the agenda, tangible goals etc from what I have seen so far that’s exactly what they have done in defining some initial areas of priority to raise with the club. In terms of them being measurable and achievable then they seem to meet that criteria too but whether they are achieved will of course be partly down to the club listening and taking action to improve things.

The areas that will be taken forward with the club will also change if the group continues and will be based on the feedback of the members and the areas that they feel are important at any given point in time.

I’m not really sure what more they can do than they have already done in such a short space of time.