REPORT: Another defeat on the road for the Clarets

[ClaretTony]

Aston Villa v Burnley report

See link
https://www.uptheclarets.com/another-de ... he-clarets

[beddie]

Good report that says it all really. I watched it on tv, the most glaring thing was how open we were in midfield and at times very slow compared to the opposition.

[The Shire Claret]

Great Write up as Always

First Visit to Villa Park and really enjoyed it , what a stadium but very surprised how quiet their fans were.

I had a feeling as soon as Luis went off the pitch we were in trouble ... I think we have to manage the game better in those instances because we can't afford to be playing with 10 men for any amount of time at this level.

Still feeling confident for the season - Home form will be key

UTC

[ClaretTony]

Great Write up as Always

First Visit to Villa Park and really enjoyed it , what a stadium but very surprised how quiet their fans were.

I had a feeling as soon as Luis went off the pitch we were in trouble ... I think we have to manage the game better in those instances because we can't afford to be playing with 10 men for any amount of time at this level.

Still feeling confident for the season - Home form will be key

UTC

Frightening thought for me but that was my 15th visit and the first was over 63 years ago.

[ClaretPete001]

Great report. We can find so many things to criticise but much of this season has been defined by circumstance and really really silly individual errors. Anthony and Hannibal are the most obvious examples with the penalties but almost inconceivably Hartman just let Malen go for their first goal even then Esteve nearly blocked him off.

And the second one is clearly because Florentino went off. I'd forgotten that but you can clearly see the space behind the midfield that led to their second goal would likely have been filled by Florentino.

The PL will punish you for these silly errors all season if they carry on but despite the issues with the back 5 and the centre forward role at no point (except the last 30 against City) can I recall thinking we are out of our depths here.

I suppose the only caveat is the irritation at the tens of millions spent on players that are not making the bench as the season grinds into Winter.

[Foshiznik]

Great article as it explains my exact thoughts much better than i could.

Villa Park is such an underrated stadium. One ground I still wish to attend one day.

[Wokingclaret]

Great report. We can find so many things to criticise but much of this season has been defined by circumstance and really really silly individual errors. Anthony and Hannibal are the most obvious examples with the penalties but almost inconceivably Hartman just let Malen go for their first goal even then Esteve nearly blocked him off.

And the second one is clearly because Florentino went off. I'd forgotten that but you can clearly see the space behind the midfield that led to their second goal would likely have been filled by Florentino.

The PL will punish you for these silly errors all season if they carry on but despite the issues with the back 5 and the centre forward role at no point (except the last 30 against City) can I recall thinking we are out of our depths here.

I suppose the only caveat is the irritation at the tens of millions spent on players that are not making the bench as the season grinds into Winter.

Also enjoy the match reports.

No, I think we are in big trouble, this all before confidence is knocked.
Wasted with 5 at the back, that can't keep clean sheets and an overworked quality keeper.
Foster is not the answer.
Broja is a major concern.
Magic Mike nowhere to be seen.
Our rivals have goals in them, we don't.

[ClaretTony]

almost inconceivably Hartman just let Malen go for their first goal even then Esteve nearly blocked him off.

I’ve watched it and watched it and I’m not sure what you expected Hartman to do. As for Estève nearly blocking him off, he should not have allowed him to get that shot in.

[The Shire Claret]

I’ve watched it and watched it and I’m not sure what you expected Hartman to do. As for Estève nearly blocking him off, he should not have allowed him to get that shot in.

We were at the perfect angle and I muttered to myself about 10 times after ‘why didn’t he slide before he shot’

I also said why didn’t Luis just get up so he didn’t have to spend a minute off the pitch when they scored the second !

[ClaretTony]

We were at the perfect angle and I muttered to myself about 10 times after ‘why didn’t he slide before he shot’

I also said why didn’t Luis just get up so he didn’t have to spend a minute off the pitch when they scored the second !

I thought Estève had done his job but then let him get that shot in. We couldn’t have been better positioned to see it.

[RVclaret]

Also enjoy the match reports.

No, I think we are in big trouble, this all before confidence is knocked.
Wasted with 5 at the back, that can't keep clean sheets and an overworked quality keeper.
Foster is not the answer.
Broja is a major concern.
Magic Mike nowhere to be seen.
Our rivals have goals in them, we don't.

There are obviously some concerns, though we’ve faced better teams than most, and that’s why not hanging on for those incredibly valuable points against Liverpool and United, both within our grasp, is really disappointing - how much different would the picture look?

Having said that, we’ve scored as many goals as Sunderland and Leeds, more than Forest, West Ham and Wolves (even Newcastle and Villa though they aren’t considered rivals) - so I’m not sure how valid this above statement is, right now? What exactly is it based on?

[Hibsclaret]

We’ve conceded 1 less goal than we did last season, in 7 games. I would suggest that keeping the back door shut is the bigger problem this season and that’s what we need to sort quickly. A few nil nils and one nil wins get you on track in this league. We can’t be having to score 2 to win games at this level too often,

[ecc]

I went on the Holte End a lot in the 1980s. My Dad went to VP for the FA Cup semi-final and said how impressive it was with two huge ends. Not sure what the capacity was at that time. The ground record, in 1946, was 76,000, enough to house the population of Burnley.

[Silkyskills1]

Was around 65,000 when we played a couple of semis in the 1960's.

[FCBurnley]

Surprised that nobody has mentioned the glaring fresh air shot by Foster when it was easier to score. Although he was eventually given offside the replay showed that he was onside. Shocking miss

[KRBFC]

There are obviously some concerns, though we’ve faced better teams than most, and that’s why not hanging on for those incredibly valuable points against Liverpool and United, both within our grasp, is really disappointing - how much different would the picture look?

Having said that, we’ve scored as many goals as Sunderland and Leeds, more than Forest, West Ham and Wolves (even Newcastle and Villa though they aren’t considered rivals) - so I’m not sure how valid this above statement is, right now? What exactly is it based on?

The other two promoted sides are much more solid defensively than us, they aren’t conceding comical goals like us. Who’d have thought that after last season?

[RVclaret]

The other two promoted sides are much more solid defensively than us, they aren’t conceding comical goals like us. Who’d have thought that after last season?

They’ve also only played Arsenal away (5-0 loss) and United away (2-0 loss) between them that are comparable to the elite sides we’ve faced.

[The Shire Claret]

The other two promoted sides are much more solid defensively than us, they aren’t conceding comical goals like us. Who’d have thought that after last season?

I think we are watching a different league altogether

I’m sure there’s a 5-0 loss for one of those teams in the only remotely comparable game.

[Wokingclaret]

There are obviously some concerns, though we’ve faced better teams than most, and that’s why not hanging on for those incredibly valuable points against Liverpool and United, both within our grasp, is really disappointing - how much different would the picture look?

Having said that, we’ve scored as many goals as Sunderland and Leeds, more than Forest, West Ham and Wolves (even Newcastle and Villa though they aren’t considered rivals) - so I’m not sure how valid this above statement is, right now? What exactly is it based on?

For example we're not scoring the wow goals Brentford can score. Foster can't score like Flemming did at Watford!

3 are going down and currently we're one of them.

I also think and I like him, Anthony was targeted on Sunday and bashed a number of times out of the game!

[KRBFC]

I think we are watching a different league altogether

I’m sure there’s a 5-0 loss for one of those teams in the only remotely comparable game.

I think we are

Sunderland (10 men) 1-1 Villa
Forest 0-1 Sunderland

Villa 2-1 Burnley
Burnley 1-1 Forest

[ClaretPete001]

I’ve watched it and watched it and I’m not sure what you expected Hartman to do. As for Estève nearly blocking him off, he should not have allowed him to get that shot in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-PIcsktGo - 31 secs

I wish someone like RV could crop where that goal starts from. Malen is standing literally a yard from Hartman and behind him on the left edge of the centre circle. Esteve is on the right edge of the centre circle covering the play, which is on our right wing with his back to Malen. As the Villa player gets the ball ready to pass to Malen Hartman is ball watching you can quite clearly see it and Malen splits Esteve and Hartman. There are no other Villa players in the picture to affect Hartman.
Malen is stood next to Hartman at the start of the move and Esteve is the other side of the D with his back to him.

It's all about opinions.

[ClaretPete001]

Also enjoy the match reports.

No, I think we are in big trouble, this all before confidence is knocked.
Wasted with 5 at the back, that can't keep clean sheets and an overworked quality keeper.
Foster is not the answer.
Broja is a major concern.
Magic Mike nowhere to be seen.
Our rivals have goals in them, we don't.

I was more stating facts as opposed to commenting on how we will do this season. Other than the last half an hour at City we have competed. This is nothing like the side Raheem Sterling tore a new one at the Turf 2 years ago.

I think SP has got his tactics wrong and he can get it right. We've played some decent side albeit there looks to be no mugs in this league and we've chucked points away with silly mistakes.

Ironically, I can agree with all your points while still arguing that but for some silly mistakes we could have emerged from this difficult run with an outcome most would have accepted at the start of the season.

But as I say on the Bee Hole End thread we have to beat Leeds and Wolves or at least look as though we can or we really are in trouble. And I'm not massively confident at this point but then who would be after losing 5 games.

[Elizabeth]

I was more stating facts as opposed to commenting on how we will do this season. Other than the last half an hour at City we have competed. This is nothing like the side Raheem Sterling tore a new one at the Turf 2 years ago.

And I'm not massively confident at this point but then who would be after losing 5 games.

Hopefully the spirit in the squad that Parker has built and nurtured will overcome these defeats in the early stages of this season. That's what I'm expecting so I'm no more or no less confident than I was when the fixtures came out.

[morninbob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-PIcsktGo - 31 secs

I wish someone like RV could crop where that goal starts from. Malen is standing literally a yard from Hartman and behind him on the left edge of the centre circle. Esteve is on the right edge of the centre circle covering the play, which is on our right wing with his back to Malen. As the Villa player gets the ball ready to pass to Malen Hartman is ball watching you can quite clearly see it and Malen splits Esteve and Hartman. There are no other Villa players in the picture to affect Hartman.
Malen is stood next to Hartman at the start of the move and Esteve is the other side of the D with his back to him.

It's all about opinions.

A more experienced defender would have played him offside, Steve backs himself in a foot race but messed up the block.

[The Shire Claret]

I think we are

Sunderland (10 men) 1-1 Villa
Forest 0-1 Sunderland

Villa 2-1 Burnley
Burnley 1-1 Forest

So Sunderland got a point against Villa at home , and we played them away.

Sunderland have got themselves a great result against Forest away and are having a tremendous start to the season and fair play to them

We beat them 2-0 at home

No mention of Leed's 5-0 drubbing

We are where I thought we would be at this stage just narrowly missing out on a point at OT and a point against the champions

I am expecting us to pick up points in the next two games as these games are against teams more at our level

Perspective is always important to me

[NottsClaret]

Great article as it explains my exact thoughts much better than i could.

Villa Park is such an underrated stadium. One ground I still wish to attend one day.

It's pretty much the perfect stadium for me. It's big, but squeezed into a terraced residential area. Loads of history, great original features.. the steps behind the Holte End etc. The atmosphere is flat for a run of the mill game against the likes of us, but that's true of every single stadium now, away from derby days or European games.

That brummie accent is hilarious too. Hard not to laugh, sitting in a pub listening to them.

[ClaretPete001]

A more experienced defender would have played him offside, Steve backs himself in a foot race but messed up the block.

Maybe if Steve had stepped back and given himself sight of the width of the pitch he may have seen Malen starting his run from inside his own half. On the other hand if Hartman had tracked his man he surely would have blocked off the diagonal run.

Looking at it again I was probably wrong anyway it wasn't a simple mistake it was a litany of errors that left a Villa player free to slide a ball through to a forward who ran from his own half and scored.

Bad goal and poor defending starting from the three players who went to the same player on our right leaving the Villa player free in the middle. Ho hum it's done now.

[KRBFC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp-PIcsktGo - 31 secs

I wish someone like RV could crop where that goal starts from. Malen is standing literally a yard from Hartman and behind him on the left edge of the centre circle. Esteve is on the right edge of the centre circle covering the play, which is on our right wing with his back to Malen. As the Villa player gets the ball ready to pass to Malen Hartman is ball watching you can quite clearly see it and Malen splits Esteve and Hartman. There are no other Villa players in the picture to affect Hartman.
Malen is stood next to Hartman at the start of the move and Esteve is the other side of the D with his back to him.

It's all about opinions.

This is our 3 centre halves away from home, 0-0. Playing like it’s the final 10 minutes and we’re 2 down, zero structure at all. Comical defending.

[Goliath]

This is our 3 centre halves away from home, 0-0. Playing like it’s the final 10 minutes and we’re 2 down, zero structure at all.

And there you see exactly why Esteve wasn't at fault. He had to attempt to cover the runner from the right. It was so close to being an absolutely world class piece of defending. He did the hard bit and then didn't get the block in which was a shame.

[ClaretTony]

And there you see exactly why Esteve wasn't at fault. He had to attempt to cover the runner from the right. It was so close to being an absolutely world class piece of defending. He did the hard bit and then didn't get the block in which was a shame.

No, he didn't get the block in and that's where he was at fault. He'd done really well to get there but then because he didn't get in the block he should have done, they scored.

[KRBFC]

And there you see exactly why Esteve wasn't at fault. He had to attempt to cover the runner from the right. It was so close to being an absolutely world class piece of defending. He did the hard bit and then didn't get the block in which was a shame.

Just all over the place defensively, zero structure or organisation.

[KRBFC]

Btw that defending is worse than anything we saw under VK.

[The Shire Claret]

Btw that defending is worse than anything we saw under VK.

Wow , the recency bias seems to be strong with you...

Just off the top of my head against Palace at home I recall losing the ball at the oppositions corner flag and ended up conceeding and was game over from there...

Palace away - Trafford and Brownhill mess up relating to a Brownhill Red

It was a terrible season for us and one i'd rather forget... we are playing nothing like that and i'm certain we will win more than 5 games we did that season

Only 2 of those games were against non promoted teams.

[Goliath]

No, he didn't get the block in and that's where he was at fault. He'd done really well to get there but then because he didn't get in the block he should have done, they scored.

It's a brilliant piece of finishing and I'm still not convinced the keeper did a great job at narrowing the angle either.

But yes I think Esteve was a bit cautious with his defending there. I think he thought he'd got him where he wanted him and didn't think that finish was on. Probably a bit of an eye opener for him, where doing the same as he did last season isn't enough, the quality is much higher.

[Foshiznik]

Btw that defending is worse than anything we saw under VK.

I'm assuming you are forgetting the mistakes made by O'Shea, Vitinho, Trafford, etc. in his last season?

[KRBFC]

I'm assuming you are forgetting the mistakes made by O'Shea, Vitinho, Trafford, etc. in his last season?

I can forgive individual mistakes, it’s going to happen.

That defensive structure and line is beyond bad, you won’t see much worse at any level.

[ClaretPete001]

This is our 3 centre halves away from home, 0-0. Playing like it’s the final 10 minutes and we’re 2 down, zero structure at all. Comical defending.

Thanks KRBFC - can't disagree but if you clip it a couple of seconds earlier at the point where the Villa player gets the ball Malen is stood in his own half right next to Hartman.

You can quite clearly see what happens next Hartman who has been tracking Malen looks up and realises the danger but Malen has gone. Steve who has been watching the play realises what has is happening, turns and sees Malen but effectively plays Malen onside.

But I agree, it's a catalogue of errors including midfield players being drawn to the ball leaving Villa players free. It's a matter of opinion but I think Steve does really well to get as close as he does but ultimately he doesn't get the challenge in.

[KRBFC]

Wow , the recency bias seems to be strong with you...

Just off the top of my head against Palace at home I recall losing the ball at the oppositions corner flag and ended up conceeding and was game over from there...

Palace away - Trafford and Brownhill mess up relating to a Brownhill Red

It was a terrible season for us and one i'd rather forget... we are playing nothing like that and i'm certain we will win more than 5 games we did that season

Only 2 of those games were against non promoted teams.

It’s not recency bias, you’re talking about individual errors, I’m talking about school boy set up, zero communication, nobody has any idea what they’re doing, 3 centre halves, where is the defensive line?

There’s four defenders in that picture, 3 of them playing centre half, one pass and there’s 2 players through on goal.

What we’re seeing isn’t an individual error, it’s a lack of idea, communication, structure, organisation. That is more worrying than an individual error.

It’s no surprise this side is leaking far more goals than Kompanys Burnley away from home, the anti Kompany bunch are just fooling themselves into believing this is better with the “more competitive” nonsense after conceding 3, 3 and 5 in our first 3 away games.

[The Shire Claret]

It’s not recency bias, you’re talking about individual errors, I’m talking about school boy set up, zero communication, nobody has any idea what they’re doing, 3 centre halves, where is the defensive line?

There’s four defenders in that picture, 3 of them playing centre half, one pass and there’s 2 players through on goal.

What we’re seeing isn’t an individual error, it’s a lack of idea, communication, structure, organisation. That is more worrying than an individual error.

It’s no surprise this side is leaking far more goals than Kompanys Burnley away from home, the anti Kompany bunch are just fooling themselves into believing this is better with the “more competitive” nonsense after conceding 3, 3 and 5 in our first 3 away games.

You are well off it if you think i'm Anti Kompany cause i'm not , far from it but that season was a disaster.

We are 7 games in and we have played Liverpool and City away ... So perspective is Key

I have never been more confident that we will finish on more points and concede less goals than we did in that Kompany Season.

[ClaretPete001]

It’s not recency bias, you’re talking about individual errors, I’m talking about school boy set up, zero communication, nobody has any idea what they’re doing, 3 centre halves, where is the defensive line?

There’s four defenders in that picture, 3 of them playing centre half, one pass and there’s 2 players through on goal.

What we’re seeing isn’t an individual error, it’s a lack of idea, communication, structure, organisation. That is more worrying than an individual error.

It’s no surprise this side is leaking far more goals than Kompanys Burnley away from home, the anti Kompany bunch are just fooling themselves into believing this is better with the “more competitive” nonsense after conceding 3, 3 and 5 in our first 3 away games.

To be fair, you can both view Kompany's season in the PL as being poor and still agree this is school boy defending.

Spurs was as bad and United could have been 4 or 5 up at half time.

Fortunately we are only 7 games in but I agree you can't defend like that in the PL.

[Bordeauxclaret]

We all remember the defensive set up early on two seasons ago right?

[KRBFC]

We all remember the defensive set up early on two seasons ago right?

People talk about the hard start, well let’s look at some of the VK results against the big teams.

Spurs 1-0 Burnley (cup)
Spurs 2-1 Burnley
Arsenal 3-1 Burnley
Burnley 0-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-1 Burnley
Man City 3-1 Burnley
Chelsea 2-2 Burnley
Villa 3-2 Burnley

Not many points there admittedly but more competitive. It was decisions, recruitment and late goals against the rest that cost us.

[Conroysleftfoot]

People talk about the hard start, well let’s look at some of the VK results against the big teams.

Spurs 1-0 Burnley (cup)
Spurs 2-1 Burnley
Arsenal 3-1 Burnley
Burnley 0-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-1 Burnley
Man City 3-1 Burnley
Chelsea 2-2 Burnley
Villa 3-2 Burnley

Not many points there admittedly but more competitive. It was decisions, recruitment and late goals against the rest that cost us.

What about.
Burnley 2 v Spurs 5
Burnley 1 v Chelsea 4
Burnley 0 v Arsenal 5

[KRBFC]

What about.
Burnley 2 v Spurs 5
Burnley 1 v Chelsea 4
Burnley 0 v Arsenal 5

That can happen against those sides, it didn’t happen anywhere near as often as portrayed on here. At least be fair with the two sides if comparing is my point. Like I said people were doing the conga after a 5-1 loss at City and a 3-0 loss at Spurs whilst Kompany would’ve been dragged through the mud for that.

[claretonthecoast1882]

People talk about the hard start, well let’s look at some of the VK results against the big teams.

Spurs 1-0 Burnley (cup)
Spurs 2-1 Burnley
Arsenal 3-1 Burnley
Burnley 0-1 Man Utd
Man Utd 1-1 Burnley
Man City 3-1 Burnley
Chelsea 2-2 Burnley
Villa 3-2 Burnley

Not many points there admittedly but more competitive. It was decisions, recruitment and late goals against the rest that cost us.

Not sure how many of those games were in the 1st 7

VK 1st 7 games in this division we had

Villa (h) 1-3 you remember the 1st goal when Watkins had free run of our half to create the 1st goal inside first 10 minutes ?
Spurs (h) 2-5

Villa were 2 up after about 20 minutes and Spurs scored 4 in about 20 minutes not exactly late goals.

[KRBFC]

Villa were 2 up after about 20 minutes and Spurs scored 4 in about 20 minutes not exactly late goals.

Not my problem you can’t read the part where it says “against the rest”

[claretonthecoast1882]

Not my problem you can’t read the part where it says “against the rest”

which ever way you try to twist things and re-write history about your idol there are 2 stats you can't change

1 - Only 2 teams scored less than us
2 - Only 2 teams conceded more than us

We scored 41 goals in 38 games
We scored 9 against Sheff Utd

The season was ****