How many do we need now?

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:58 pm

After that disaster yesterday, and reading all the comments on the various threads it seems as if most Clarets want an entirely new team next season or we're going to become record breakers with a worse season than Derby had. Personally I believe it was just a blip. We do need extra cover for every position, decent prem teams have at least two players for each position. The only players we can dispense with are Flanagan and Barton. JF isn't good enough, JB is coming to the end of his career.

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:05 am

Arfields days are numbered. Fantastic his first year and has gradually declined. Now he can no longer beat a man he's basically a FB in front of the FB.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:05 am

How many what? Points to survive this season?

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:55 am

Get rid of JB? The same JB who, until Saturday has been brilliant for us? Age is just a number you know.

Claret&Green · Post by **Claret&Green** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:06 am

Sorry I didn't phrase the question properly. I believe we will survive this season, but without wholesale changes I reckon we will be lucky to get 10 Pts next season. I honestly believe only Heaton, Keane, Mee & Defour have proved themselves up to scratch and Brady probably will. Westwood is no better than what we've already got. If we are to survive the 2017/18 season we need to do a Bournemouth and buy about 10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality. Probably have to look to Europe to get them.

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:15 am

Claret&Green wrote:Sorry I didn't phrase the question properly. I believe we will survive this season, but without wholesale changes I reckon we will be lucky to get 10 Pts next season. I honestly believe only Heaton, Keane, Mee & Defour have proved themselves up to scratch and Brady probably will. Westwood is no better than what we've already got. If we are to survive the 2017/18 season we need to do a Bournemouth and buy about 10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality. Probably have to look to Europe to get them.

Good joke mate

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:15 am

Nah, even if we lose the 4 shockers form Saturday ( Arfield, Boyd, Darikwa and Flanagan ) plus Keane & Marney who will be sold/injured we only really need to replace 4 IMO.
Brady is Boyd's replacement
Westwood is Marney's

We would only need IMO
LB cover/challenger Robertson/Taylor
CB cover/challenging
Winger
Striker

Presuming known else leaves, and if they did we would most probably receive a fee that could be used towards directly replacing them.
Quick fag packet maths would have us having 50m to spend at minimum. ( 20m for Keane, 30m budget any way ) That's 5 10m pound players if we so wish.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:01 am

Claret&Green wrote:Sorry I didn't phrase the question properly. I believe we will survive this season, but without wholesale changes I reckon we will be lucky to get 10 Pts next season. I honestly believe only Heaton, Keane, Mee & Defour have proved themselves up to scratch and Brady probably will. Westwood is no better than what we've already got. If we are to survive the 2017/18 season we need to do a Bournemouth and buy about 10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality. Probably have to look to Europe to get them.

You almost sounded believable until this one.

claretandblue · Post by **claretandblue** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:10 am

Claret&Green wrote:Sorry I didn't phrase the question properly. I believe we will survive this season, but without wholesale changes I reckon we will be lucky to get 10 Pts next season. I honestly believe only Heaton, Keane, Mee & Defour have proved themselves up to scratch and Brady probably will. Westwood is no better than what we've already got. If we are to survive the 2017/18 season we need to do a Bournemouth and buy about 10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality. Probably have to look to Europe to get them.

Do a Bournemouth?! Because that's working out SO well for them isn't it? Get a grip man!

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:21 am

MACCA wrote:Nah, even if we lose the 4 shockers form Saturday ( Arfield, Boyd, Darikwa and Flanagan ) plus Keane & Marney who will be sold/injured we only really need to replace 4 IMO.
Brady is Boyd's replacement
Westwood is Marney's

We would only need IMO
LB cover/challenger Robertson/Taylor
CB cover/challenging
Winger
Striker

Presuming known else leaves, and if they did we would most probably receive a fee that could be used towards directly replacing them.
Quick fag packet maths would have us having 50m to spend at minimum. ( 20m for Keane, 30m budget any way ) That's 5 10m pound players if we so wish.

Surely we need cover at RB if you are getting rid of Darikwa?
Also we will need more than one winger to replace Arfield, Kightly and Boyd, (assuming they all go).

I personally don't think Darikwa is that good but to me he is about the standard of a back up right back for our squad so I'd keep him.
Boyd I'd be fine with as a squad player.
So if we keep those two I'd be happy with your list!
If Joey doesn't renew then we also need another CM.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:04 am

Well going off the last 43 hours or so on here from a few, I think we need......

Heaton
Lowton Keane Mee Ward
New New New New
New Barnes

Manager - New
Groundsman - New
Ground - New
Burnley fans - New

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:50 am

Claret&Green wrote:Sorry I didn't phrase the question properly. I believe we will survive this season, but without wholesale changes I reckon we will be lucky to get 10 Pts next season. I honestly believe only Heaton, Keane, Mee & Defour have proved themselves up to scratch and Brady probably will. Westwood is no better than what we've already got. If we are to survive the 2017/18 season we need to do a Bournemouth and buy about 10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality. Probably have to look to Europe to get them.

So you think that the team that has got 30 points by mid Feb will "be lucky" to get 10 points next season ?

And you think we should "do a Bournemouth" and spend £120m to be on 26 points by mid Feb and without a win in 2017 ?

Ok - why don`t you drop the club a line with your CV ?....don`t forget to tell them why you think Hendrick has not been up to scratch.

StuffyClaret · Post by **StuffyClaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:52 am

"10 or 12 £10million+ players of suitable quality"

LOL

mybloodisclaret · Post by **mybloodisclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:03 am

Hendrick has been very good this season. Darikwa had a good game on Saturday.
You've had a nightmare on this one mate.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:44 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote: Burnley fans - New

I believe there's a large number of barstewards floating about needing a new home, so the new fans bit could be quite easy to do.

gandhisflipflop · Post by **gandhisflipflop** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:16 pm

mybloodisclaret wrote:Hendrick has been very good this season. Darikwa had a good game on Saturday.
You've had a nightmare on this one mate.

Darikwa was poor. He didn't get up the pitch anywhere near as much as he should have done given boyd and arfield offered zero width.

StuffyClaret · Post by **StuffyClaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Darikwa was poor. He didn't get up the pitch anywhere near as much as he should have done given boyd and arfield offered zero width.

Funny you should say that. I was thinking that he was concentrating much more on his defensive duties which has typically been his weakness in other games. Typically though, the Darikwa of September 2015 could have been just what we could have done with on Saturday, bombing up the wing and leaving us thin at the back.

Holtyclaret · Post by **Holtyclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:07 pm

Darikwa most certainly didn't have a good game on Saturday, he was atrocious as many others were, an accident waiting to happen.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Biggest thing we learned on Saturday is that our back up full backs aren't good enough in possession of the ball to implement our usual patterns of play, so I daresay that competition for both Lowton and Ward is now well up the priority list for next season (and the potential for Lowton to notch a two game ban must now be a real concern for the run in).

The second biggest thing we learned (or perhaps more accurately, had confirmed) is that there isn't the guile and creativity in the front 4 (particularly in the absence of Defour) to open up a really stubborn defence, so more craft and creativity in the second striker slot has been confirmed as perhaps our biggest priority for the close season. You can argue this is also a problem out wide, but given that Brady and JBG who are more creative were both largely unavailable on Saturday I still think our options in this department are broadly acceptable.

We also learned that Westwood and Barton aren't really a pairing in midfield, except when the game plan is (as against Chelsea) to sit very deep and play on the counter, but that's an unfortunate necessity of Defour and Hendrick being unavailable, and the value of both to us has probably increased on the back of Saturday.

We have to live with the fact that our squad is never going to be incredibly deep so we will on occasions field teams lacking balance. We did on Saturday and it cost us.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:23 pm

Darikwa didn't get forward because we didn't work the ball well enough. What ought to have happened is what happened with Spurs and Trippier yesterday - a couple of nice triangles in the centre of the pitch to drag Lincoln in-field, followed by a cross-field ball. Partly because of our inability to commit Lincoln men in the middle of the pitch, partly because of the nature of the surface, and partly because of Lincolns' admirable diligence and organisation, we didn't achieve that often enough.

As a consequence, too often when Darikwa got the ball, he had to pause and think what to do next. And unfortunately, that isn't his forte.

Biggest problem with Darikwa on Saturday was that He and Flanagan were the players Lincoln didn't press when they had the ball in our half, and both of them used the ball in those areas appallingly. Usually, the quality of the channel balls, or balls into Barnes/Vokes, from the two full backs is a million miles better and it gets us playing on the front foot. We got nowhere near that on Saturday.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:36 pm

Holtyclaret wrote:Darikwa most certainly didn't have a good game on Saturday, he was atrocious as many others were, an accident waiting to happen.

I keep hearing Darikwa is an accident waiting to happen but as yet it hasn't, certainly nothing like Lowtons bad pass back against Leicester at home. He's not perfect by any means but there's not much between the full backs. A new first choice is needed and keep either as back up.
Going forwards Darikwa has the edge creating a very good chance on Saturday that was fluffed.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:10 pm

claretspice wrote:Darikwa didn't get forward because we didn't work the ball well enough. What ought to have happened is what happened with Spurs and Trippier yesterday - a couple of nice triangles in the centre of the pitch to drag Lincoln in-field, followed by a cross-field ball. Partly because of our inability to commit Lincoln men in the middle of the pitch, partly because of the nature of the surface, and partly because of Lincolns' admirable diligence and organisation, we didn't achieve that often enough.

As a consequence, too often when Darikwa got the ball, he had to pause and think what to do next. And unfortunately, that isn't his forte.

Biggest problem with Darikwa on Saturday was that He and Flanagan were the players Lincoln didn't press when they had the ball in our half, and both of them used the ball in those areas appallingly. Usually, the quality of the channel balls, or balls into Barnes/Vokes, from the two full backs is a million miles better and it gets us playing on the front foot. We got nowhere near that on Saturday.

Darikwa couldn't get forward because as the Lincoln manager said they only had to defend 60% of the pitch as they knew that right footed flanagan and arfield wouldn't be bombing down the left wing.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I keep hearing Darikwa is an accident waiting to happen but as yet it hasn't, certainly nothing like Lowtons bad pass back against Leicester at home. He's not perfect by any means but there's not much between the full backs. A new first choice is needed and keep either as back up.
Going forwards Darikwa has the edge creating a very good chance on Saturday that was fluffed.

Wow - not much between Darikwa and Lowton ?

In my view there is one / possibly two divisions between them.

Darikwa was not the worst player on Saturday - purely because of how bad Flanagan was and also because in the first half he made once decent run and cross....which was more than Flanagan and Boyd managed for the whole game (but I am excusing Boyd as it was just not his type of game to show his value to the team). In the second half Darikwa was awful - his passing, decision making, first touch (usually the wrong way back towards his own goal) - everything.

Compare that to Lowton who started the season shakily away from home (he has not been alone on this front) but at home has been excellent - especially in the last couple of months. I had him as man of the match v Chelsea as a few other people did - and that`s Chelsea with probably the best wingers and marauding wing backs in the Premier League.

It makes my legs go wobbly to even contemplate how Darikwa would have coped against Chelsea - or for that matter pretty much any team in this league. Fortunately it also clearly makes Dyche nervous as he has absolutely no intention of ever putting him on the pitch for these games. Even if Lowton gets suspended I do not expect to see Darikwa ever start a Premier League game (that matters) for Burnley.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:14 pm

Baby and bathwater.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:31 pm

claretandy wrote:Darikwa couldn't get forward because as the Lincoln manager said they only had to defend 60% of the pitch as they knew that right footed flanagan and arfield wouldn't be bombing down the left wing.

Very fair point Andy, certainly part of the reason. I said just after half time on Saturday that'd bring Ward on for Flanagan as the next change, just to give us balance down the left.

Not the whole story though, a bit more craft and patience in midfield on occasions and we'd have still drawn in enough men to spring Darikwa.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:56 pm

darikwa was junk on saturday, flanagan worse.

neither are anywhere near the standard of lowton and ward, though to be honest, nor would i expect them to be; they've played sod all first team football all season.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Can't see us getting more than 3 or 4 in next season but that may depend on how many we lose
and whether we stay up which hopefully we will.
If we were to lose 2 or 3 from current squad (say Keane, Arfield and/or Boyd or another)
then we'd obviously need to replace those in the first place.
In terms of what we might need at present then a full back and another forward would be my priority.

We should have sufficient funds to do that even if we did go down.
If we stay up then I would expect us to get a couple more in beyond a full back and a forward.

Next season is going to be as difficult, if not more so, than this season.
Although I would expect us to improve our away record it would be nigh on
impossible to replicate out home form.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:55 pm

yeah we are terrible cause we got caught out in the cup, I suggest we fold the club and lock ourselves in a cupboard

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:56 pm

We need to win or draw against Hull, the rest of the season depends on that.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:57 pm

TVC15 wrote:Wow - not much between Darikwa and Lowton ?

In my view there is one / possibly two divisions between them.

Darikwa was not the worst player on Saturday - purely because of how bad Flanagan was and also because in the first half he made once decent run and cross....which was more than Flanagan and Boyd managed for the whole game (but I am excusing Boyd as it was just not his type of game to show his value to the team). In the second half Darikwa was awful - his passing, decision making, first touch (usually the wrong way back towards his own goal) - everything.

Compare that to Lowton who started the season shakily away from home (he has not been alone on this front) but at home has been excellent - especially in the last couple of months. I had him as man of the match v Chelsea as a few other people did - and that`s Chelsea with probably the best wingers and marauding wing backs in the Premier League.

It makes my legs go wobbly to even contemplate how Darikwa would have coped against Chelsea - or for that matter pretty much any team in this league. Fortunately it also clearly makes Dyche nervous as he has absolutely no intention of ever putting him on the pitch for these games. Even if Lowton gets suspended I do not expect to see Darikwa ever start a Premier League game (that matters) for Burnley.

Just difference of opinions. Lowton has been adequate in the premier league and Darikwa a bit better in the cup competitions. If we get chance to improve then I would.
I haven't seen any defensive mistakes by Darikwa in his limited game time but could of done better going forward. Lowton has done alright defensively but I can't remember him putting a decent cross in this season. He hasn't got an assist.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:59 pm

Working on weaknesses, if only, sadly goes against the grain of footballing coaching

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:01 pm

Darkish is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

When he pushes up everyone focuses on his defensive mistakes, when he sits back the issue is he isn't pushing on.

Saturday was the perfect time to be pushing on but for whatever reason he stayed in defensive. Some of his best play on Saturday was actually when we went to 3 at the back, both full backs and Barton - he seemed in total control with his pace keeping him ahead of any danger.

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