Andre Gray

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Claret1992 wrote:Sticking up for him might be a start, Barnes and Vokes maybe similar in physique but have given more to the team 75% of the time. I would be the first to apologise if he proves me wrong next season but I doubt very much that will happen, and he may not even be at the club.

You're doing a fine job of dissing Gray, but lost all credibility in your post when you stated that you would push for Troy Deeney.

Deeney 10 goals in 32 Prem appearances. Gray 9 goals in 32 Prem appearances.

I would also wager that Deeney will have had far better service than Gray which has been dire this season. I counted 1 pass on the deck to him in the whole game today. Give Gray decent supply and he will deliver.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:51 pm

You were complaining in November that Gray looked lacklustre and didn't appear to be putting in the effort.

You've clearly had an issue with him all season.
You also thought Bamford would be a goal scorer with enough game time.

Claret1992 · Post by **Claret1992** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:54 pm

Well I'm wrong about Bamford but he didn't really play, however I still don't rate Grays season.

Wilsdenclaret · Post by **Wilsdenclaret** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:56 pm

I like Hendrick but he was dreadful today

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:58 pm

I think people are entitled to their opinions regarding Gray. He's hardly set the league alight but at the same time, it has been his first season in the top flight. He'll be all the better for it going forward.

Claret1992 · Post by **Claret1992** » Sun May 21, 2017 7:58 pm

Knowone stood out apart from the ref who was utterly shambolic

Wilsdenclaret · Post by **Wilsdenclaret** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:00 pm

Lowton, Gray, Westwood, Brady and Vokes were all decent today esp in the first half

Claret1992 · Post by **Claret1992** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:01 pm

Not one player played well today Brady was dreadful

S0S-1971 · Post by **S0S-1971** » Sun May 21, 2017 8:37 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Is 9 goals bad for a striker in his first season in the top flight that also included a ban and time on the bench?

No , we simply need more than that going forward , we all wanted him to be successsful and score loads of goals but he isn't good enough .

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:26 pm

S0S-1971 wrote:No , we simply need more than that going forward , we all wanted him to be successsful and score loads of goals but he isn't good enough .

What about judging him after a full uninterrupted season with better support from midfield?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:32 pm

Sidney1st wrote:What about judging him after a full uninterrupted season with better support from midfield?

He does score some good and important goals, but he misses far too many imo and we can't afford that. Today he missed two nailed on chances which others at this level would have buried. We often say he doesn't get the service, but I honestly think he does get decent service overall, he just doesn't make the most of it.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:43 pm

The back heel one was 'nailed on'?

If he was arriving at it with the ball in front of him I'd say that he would have buried it.

But what I saw (I haven't seen it back) was a ball played to him at the near post which was a tad behind him and he had to improvise.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:He does score some good and important goals, but he misses far too many imo and we can't afford that.

But we've survived with plenty to spare this season despite his missed chances.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:50 pm

He's done well in his first season at this level.

I hope he signs a new contract asap

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:51 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:The back heel one was 'nailed on'?

If he was arriving at it with the ball in front of him I'd say that he would have buried it.

But what I saw (I haven't seen it back) was a ball played to him at the near post which was a tad behind him and he had to improvise.

I haven't seen it back either so I might be wrong, but I felt he just needed to make decent contact and side foot it in. The back heel stuff wasn't necessary, but we'll see.

3putt · Post by **3putt** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:56 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:He does score some good and important goals, but he misses far too many imo and we can't afford that. Today he missed two nailed on chances which others at this level would have buried. We often say he doesn't get the service, but I honestly think he does get decent service overall, he just doesn't make the most of it.

Two nailed on chances? Well I completely missed those - I would say one half chance.

How many passes would you say he has on the deck per game? I would say very few, I counted one today. Most of the balls to him are head height whilst being marked by a couple defenders that tower over him.

We haven't made the best of his talents this season in my opinion.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun May 21, 2017 10:04 pm

3putt wrote:Two nailed on chances? Well I completely missed those - I would say one half chance.

How many passes would you say he has on the deck per game? I would say very few, I counted one today. Most of the balls to him are head height whilst being marked by a couple defenders that tower over him.

We haven't made the best of his talents this season in my opinion.

The one very early on when he tried to lob the keeper was to me a golden chance to a good PL striker, as was the low cross from Brady which he should have turned in from 3/4 yards out imo.
I do agree he doesn't always get great service, but when the ball IS to him his anticipation and basic control can be comedic at times. And I've lost count of the number of times he sets off running, but forgets the ball!
I'm not saying he's useless and he has scored some crackers both this season and last, but at times he is so bloody frustrating and I feel we need better if we're to build on this season next term. Having said that it scares me how much better might cost!!!

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Sun May 21, 2017 10:25 pm

Have to agree with many pundits in that we haven't played sufficiently enough to Grays' strengths.
Had we then he may well have got a few more goals and possibly got us a few more points as well.

Whether we will ever be able to lay to his strengths is another question.
Probably not unless Dyche either changes the formation and/or gets a couple of players in
who can create chances for the likes of Gray.

That's if he is still with us.
He knows that Newcastle will likely pay him double what he is getting at Burnley
and probably create a few more chances for him.

Based on that if Newcastle do come in for him I'd be very surprised if he didn't go.
The only think that might keep him with us is if Dyche says he wants to up the performances
and increase the number of goals scored next season and sees him as the man to do that.
And then say he can go at the end of next season after agreeing a new 3 year contract now.

I would have thought we'd ask for at least 15m for him now even though he's only
got one year left but could probably ask for another 10m on that if he
stayed and had a reasonably good next season with us - say 12-15 goals.
He has the potential to become a 15+ goals a season striker - in my view.
I hope it is with us. T'would be galling to see him banging them in for another team.

That's if he hasn't already made his mind up or had it made up for him.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:19 pm

'...Deeney will cost in excess of £20 million plus wages...'

you're no far wrong - how about £35m

- see link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eeney.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:30 pm

I find the criticism of Gray, moronic. The criticism should be aimed at Dyche for setting the team up to not fit Gray in. If you isolate him with naff defensive wingers and smash it up to him you will see Gray struggle. I'm no football manager but its pretty obvious the dire football we play is negatively impacting a number of our players. Its quite sad to see Gray constantly slated after receiving horrific service.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:34 pm

Presumably when he was Top scorer and player of the year in the Championship that was despite of Dyche?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:39 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Presumably when he was Top scorer and player of the year in the Championship that was despite of Dyche?

Do you really think you can compare the Premier League to the Championship?

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:40 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:I haven't seen it back either so I might be wrong, but I felt he just needed to make decent contact and side foot it in. The back heel stuff wasn't necessary, but we'll see.

I've already had this argument on another thread so won't labour the point but for me he was outside the near post, the ball was behind him and he took his only option. I still feel he should have got it on target. It's a practisable skill that is used quite regularly to score nowadays.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:37 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Presumably when he was Top scorer and player of the year in the Championship that was despite of Dyche?

Yeah, he would have scored goals in any team in the Championship.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:50 pm

Thought so

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu May 25, 2017 7:05 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yeah, he would have scored goals in any team in the Championship.

So he would have been the leagues top scorer for whoever finished bottom?

KippaxFifaHD · Post by **KippaxFifaHD** » Thu May 25, 2017 8:09 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Is 9 goals bad for a striker in his first season in the top flight that also included a ban and time on the bench?

The time on the bench being because he wasn't scoring. I would happily drive him to whoever he would like to sign for this summer.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu May 25, 2017 8:11 pm

I don't see a realistic replacement playing in England if Andre does go and for me that's the real issue

Bdc · Post by **Bdc** » Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 pm

If Gray got some proper service to him he would score more goals, there are plenty of games where he has to feed off nothing but scraps. To get 9 goals in an interrupted season isn't bad IMO. Don't get why fans seems to get on his back so much, he has a lot more potential and I think he's worth keeping.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu May 25, 2017 8:34 pm

exactly BDC, he can be frustrating but ask Man Utd fans about Andy Cole, he needed 6 chances to score, Gray doesn't get that luxury as we don't create six chances for him in 3 games !

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:10 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:So he would have been the leagues top scorer for whoever finished bottom?

What relevance does it have to this season? Gray was provided with service on a more frequent basis last year in the Championship because we had one of the best squads in the league and the Championship is full of pretty sh**e teams.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 26, 2017 1:05 am

Stephen Fletcher scored 8 goals in 2009-10, Danny Ings 11 goals in 2014-15, Andre Gray 9 goals in 2016-17. How many is a reasonable number?

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Fri May 26, 2017 2:10 pm

Tammy Abraham is a donkey ideal for league one or Championship on a good day.
He looked poor againgst us and with our poor record of getting dross from Chelsea we might be better looking elsewhere
Don't forget Rouvens coming back.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:36 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:Tammy Abraham is a donkey ideal for league one or Championship on a good day.
He looked poor againgst us and with our poor record of getting dross from Chelsea we might be better looking elsewhere
Don't forget Rouvens coming back.

Think he only came on as a late sub.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:47 pm

dsr wrote:Stephen Fletcher scored 8 goals in 2009-10, Danny Ings 11 goals in 2014-15, Andre Gray 9 goals in 2016-17. How many is a reasonable number?

I think 15+ is a superb Premier League season. Which I think Andre Gray would get with the correct service.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:02 pm

KRBFC wrote:What relevance does it have to this season? Gray was provided with service on a more frequent basis last year in the Championship because we had one of the best squads in the league and the Championship is full of pretty sh**e teams.

Right so you are admitting Dyche assembled one of the best squads last season. Does that count as praise?

If so I dread to think of the punishment you'll be dishing out to yourself in your bedroom tonight!

'Must not praise Dyche bad Jed'!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:10 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Right so you are admitting Dyche assembled one of the best squads last season. Does that count as praise?

If so I dread to think of the punishment you'll be dishing out to yourself in your bedroom tonight!

'Must not praise Dyche bad Jed'!

Yes it does, Iv praised Dyche numerous times. How can people not give him praise? Just because I don't enjoy watching his style of play it doesn't mean I hate the guy and think he's a sh*t manager.

Claret1992 · Post by **Claret1992** » Fri May 26, 2017 11:37 pm

How about Chris Wood could we afford him?

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Sat May 27, 2017 12:10 pm

KRBFC wrote:Yes it does, Iv praised Dyche numerous times. How can people not give him praise? Just because I don't enjoy watching his style of play it doesn't mean I hate the guy and think he's a sh*t manager.

I must have been misreading your thousand plus posts on him then.

boyyanno · Post by **boyyanno** » Sat May 27, 2017 1:00 pm

Interestingly enough have people checked out how previous top goalscorers in the championship have fared at premier league level? I'd be surprised if there are any knocking them in regularly for a premier league club.
Gray has somthing no doubt, but parts of his game are lacking (as they will be for a young player whose career has developed so quickly). That being said I firmly believe that to be successful in the premier league you need to have more of a complete game. Grays composure and his finishing leave somthing to be desired for me, he often smashes the ball rather than placing it and that's why I think even with better service he'd struggle to capitalise more.

The story of our season is likely to be similar next year, it will be a long time before we control games. Until that time comes I think Gray will be wasted here, it's not a case of disliking him or slagging him off wantonly, I just think we need more of a finished article to improve. I like his pace and his running, but at the moment I feel he flatters to deceive a little. If the right chance falls for him I think he will score it, the second at Palace was the right sort of chance, running on to the ball with a bit of space and smashing it in. However give him somthing slightly different and he struggles, and that's the problem for me. I suppose the closest thing I can say is one dimensional but even that doesn't quite fit. I really hope he can improve technically, but sadly it's one of the areas that are mostly innate.

Who we replace him with is a question I cannot answer without knowing the finance available and the other signings we will make.

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sat May 27, 2017 1:47 pm

I'd be happy to see Gray sign a three year extension. I see a player with more room for improvement than reasons to get rid.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat May 27, 2017 1:49 pm

No Ney Never wrote:I'd be happy to see Gray sign a three year extension. I see a player with more room for improvement than reasons to get rid.

I'd be more than happy. He's a player we need to hang on to. He will only get better in my view.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat May 27, 2017 2:13 pm

If Gray had a midfielder playing behind him with the vision and ability to slide balls into the channels for him to run onto then I reckon he would get at least 15 goals a season even at this level. Maybe Defour could have been that man? Sadly now looks like we'll never know.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat May 27, 2017 2:34 pm

Claret1992 wrote:How about Chris Wood could we afford him?

I see him more as a target man, who would play alongside Gray.

Claret1992 · Post by **Claret1992** » Sat May 27, 2017 6:22 pm

I reckon this would make Andre work harder

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun May 28, 2017 9:13 am

FactualFrank wrote:I see him more as a target man, who would play alongside Gray.

Why would we want to replace Vokes who's proved he can score at least ten goals in a season at PL level with someone who hasn't?

No Ney Never · Post by **No Ney Never** » Sun May 28, 2017 11:18 am

Possession, retention, passing and penetration (I know), in the middle of the park and down the flanks is the next phase in the evolution of the framework. Improvements here is the key to getting more from Andre and Vokesy.
We have two very good strikers who are capable, it's providing them that needs to be bettered.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun May 28, 2017 11:37 am

Spijed wrote:Why would we want to replace Vokes who's proved he can score at least ten goals in a season at PL level with someone who hasn't?

I didn't say he'd replace him. I said I see him as more a target man, who would (when he did play) suit playing with Gray more than with Vokes.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun May 28, 2017 8:29 pm

KRBFC wrote:I find the criticism of Gray, moronic. The criticism should be aimed at Dyche for setting the team up to not fit Gray in. If you isolate him with naff defensive wingers and smash it up to him you will see Gray struggle. I'm no football manager but its pretty obvious the dire football we play is negatively impacting a number of our players. Its quite sad to see Gray constantly slated after receiving horrific service.

Do us all a favour. Start watching Bury

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun May 28, 2017 9:56 pm

Stayingup wrote:Do us all a favour. Start watching Bury

Am I wrong? Do we play to Grays strength? Does he receive good service? Tell me one thing I said you believe is wrong. I'm defending one of our players who gets slated after every game which I find unfair.