New brexit poll, big majority for hard brexit

[claretandy]

A new poll by LSE and Oxford Univercity of 20000 people finds that 68% prefer hard brexit over soft brexit and 67% prefer no deal over soft brexit.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/rema ... .edLml3JQ3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DAVETHEVICAR]

The lot in charge are only able to get hard Brexit because they have no idea what they are doing.

[Vino blanco]

One post, and it's become political, yawn.

[RingoMcCartney]

You wouldn't think so if you listened to the metropolitan bubble dwellers that infest the BBC and Sky.

But then again, these ivory towered luvies rarely venture out to the "provinces" as they sneeringly describe the rest of England. So it's not surprising they were all left bewildered by the referendum result.

Very little coverage of the EU expenses scandal I notice.

John Claude Drunker using a private €240000 private jet to get to rome(I think). Probably to pi**** to get a normal flight.

Apparently it took THREE years to get the information on EU expenses. Despite 120 information requests. And they only gave 2 MONTHS details!!!!!

I'm surprised it's only 68% who want out of this gravy train for a cabal of snouts in the trough free loaders!!

[whereeaglesfly]

I suppose the Tory Party and their wealthy backers don't have their snouts in the trough so we will be ok then.

[NRC]

personally I don't give two farts for what you do. That you're doing it at all has hit me hard financially and wrecked my retirement. You've made your choice, a ham fist is still a ham fist

[Lee72]

Very little coverage of the EU expenses scandal I notice.

John Claude Drunker using a private €240000 private jet to get to rome(I think). Probably to pi**** to get a normal flight.

You've an extra zero in there and there were 9 people on it. Still agree it looks like its taking the p*ss take but facts matter. All governments and people in power, including good old Brits, spend money as if they were paid like premier league footballers. The whole system is broken and if you don't realise leaving the EU isn't going to change that then there's no hope.

[Damo]

All governments and people in power, including good old Brits, spend money as if they were paid like premier league footballers. The whole system is broken and if you don't realise leaving the EU isn't going to change that then there's no hope.

Staying in the eu isnt going to change that but leaving might.
In the UK we get to vote on who represents us so they are accountable for their decisions. You don't get that with the EU.
If your so against people who govern you, ripping you off then surely removing one (unelected) level of governance is a good thing?

[LaLigaClaret]

From the EU's attitude it seems we are wasting 2 years "negotiating" as the European Parliament will likely reject any deal anyway. The likely outcome is no agreed deal and instead a fudge of transitional arrangements which will drag on endlessly and we will still be paying out billions, still have freedom of movement whilst the British public get frustrated and sick of it all in the hope we will "change our mind". We should tell them what we want from the deal instead of putting up with their unreasonable demands and if they won't negotiate sensibly then walk away immediately, pay nothing for a divorce, talk to who we like on trade deals and just let them deal with the ensuing carnage. When their businesses and citizens realise they need to work with us rather than against us then they will soon want a sensible, negotiated trade deal with us

All the nonsense with demands over Ireland, Gibraltar, divorce deals and the European Courts of Justice should just be kicked out and we should just get on with it.

[Spijed]

When their businesses and citizens realise they need to work with us rather than against us then they will soon want a sensible, negotiated trade deal with us

Vice versa - What about all those businesses in the UK that rely on the EU?

[LaLigaClaret]

Vice versa - What about all those businesses in the UK that rely on the EU?

I agree however the whole EU stupid social project is a joke and unelected officials are playing fast and loose with us with the negotiations. There isn't going to be a deal just a fudge so the sooner we walk away the better. Yes there will be consequences but there will be if we waste two more pointless years and endless transition arrangements anyway. Their terms are clearly ridiculous so why waste time. Just leave immediately and negotiate a trade deal afterwards as that will be best for all parties if they don't want one then so be it. We will soon adapt to life either way, trade will still continue between us and European countries it won't stop entirely.

[Lancasterclaret]

See that 16% of people polled want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit.

Still, as long as you are happy voting the same way as them......

[Stayingup]

Its not surprising given that the EU has behaved like big babies to us since the referendum. Their disgrsceful childish like behaviour fully justifies the Referendum result. Now I read they are blowing MY tax on private jets and other profligate expense items. No wonder they wont publish any accounts. If ever an organization needed reforming its the EU

[Damo]

See that 16% of people polled want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit.

Still, as long as you are happy voting the same way as them......

What % of remain voters want completely open borders?

I'm sure there's a percentage of complete idiots on both sides

[Stayingup]

I suppose the Tory Party and their wealthy backers don't have their snouts in the trough so we will be ok then.

Bit of a silly post. Surely your not naive enough not to know that Labour hss some very weslthy backers are you?

And of course all the lovely London luvvies, who really understand life outside the M25 are to a man Labour supporters. They have to be its 'in'. But of course you have to be a millionaire.

[JohnMcGreal]

Its not surprising given that the EU has behaved like big babies to us since the referendum. Their disgrsceful childish like behaviour fully justifies the Referendum result.

[Guich]

One post, and it's become political, yawn.

I think he's playing that game where you put 'Brexit' in a thread title and see how long it takes for the usual suspects to show up

[kentonclaret]

The OP hasn't even got his facts right on the number of people interviewed for the poll.

This was a very small poll involving around 3200 people not 20000 as indicated by the OP.

Because the samplers asked each person 6 questions they tried to make out that 20000 people were polled.

[Bacchus]

I have an issue with the way this survey is being spun. Maybe there is a general preference for 'hard' Brexit over 'soft' Brexit (although there seems to be some contradictory answers and some assumptions being applied to the data as a result) but the questions are all from the perspective of Brexit going ahead. It disregards that a lot other of people (a slim majority according to some recent polls) would prefer that Brexit wasn't happening at all.

To put it another way, if you were asked whether you'd prefer to have your leg half removed by child with a rusty saw or fully removed by a surgeon most people would presumably choose the latter. Would it be fair to then present that as a majority of people being in favour of having one leg? Of course not, because it completely disregards that most people are quite happy with two legs.

[RingoMcCartney]

You've an extra zero in there and there were 9 people on it. Still agree it looks like its taking the p*ss take but facts matter. All governments and people in power, including good old Brits, spend money as if they were paid like premier league footballers. The whole system is broken and if you don't realise leaving the EU isn't going to change that then there's no hope.

Yeah you're right mate it was 24 grand (typing on a phone I'm afraid)

But still. €24000 for a man that was NEVER elected and is neither accountable nor vulnerable to the ballot box......

And why only 2 months?

"The whole system is broke" Agreed.

A system where the 5 Presidents and the legislation makers are NOT elected is not a system worth tolerating or paying for any longer.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Blakesheaven]

Have been watching this thread. Despite one or two attempts to give context, no-one seems to have spotted that only LEAVE voters were polled in this survey, hence it's hardly surprising that the results were as indicated.

What's really unacceptable is the way the publicisers bury this key detail in the text so far down most readers will never get there. Just another sad indication of how debased political discourse has become in this country.

[kentonclaret]

Since only 3200 voters were polled (NOT THE 20000 PEOPLE WRONGLY CLAIMED BY THE OP) it can hardly be a BIG majority can it?

Still LEAVERS have past history here claiming £350 million a week when the Treasury this week confirmed the true figure as £175 million.

[Blakesheaven]

Yes, KC, is true. You might find Prof Vernon Bogdanor's recent Gresham College lecture interesting on the whole Brexit issue, assuming you haven't already read it. Basically says that there's no such thing as a 'soft' Brexit - just a choice between remain and 'hard' Brexit. As there's no majority for that in parliament, he suggests a second referendum may be the only way out of a constitutional bind. Thought-provoking.

[BennyD]

See that 16% of people polled want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit.

Still, as long as you are happy voting the same way as them......

Which means 84% don't and I am, what's your point? Apart from rabid remoanery that is.

[Woodleyclaret]

The leavers like me just want to get on and leave with a no compensation break.
The time taken to sort out this smacks of some of our transfer dealings

[boatshed bill]

Brexit, similar to boiled eggs, then

[dsr]

Yes, KC, is true. You might find Prof Vernon Bogdanor's recent Gresham College lecture interesting on the whole Brexit issue, assuming you haven't already read it. Basically says that there's no such thing as a 'soft' Brexit - just a choice between remain and 'hard' Brexit. As there's no majority for that in parliament, he suggests a second referendum may be the only way out of a constitutional bind. Thought-provoking.

My thought is that the UK has invoked article 50 which means that in March 2019 we're out, unless both Parliament votes to rejoin/cancel our withdrawal AND the EU allows us to cancel our withdrawal. If there is no majority for rejoining, which there won't be, then it's irrelevant whether there is a majority for a hard Brexit. If no "soft Brexit" deal exists, Parliament has nothing to vote on. (Apart from a vote of no confidence in the government, which would be followed by another general election, not another referendum.)

[Imploding Turtle]

My thought is that the UK has invoked article 50 which means that in March 2019 we're out, unless both Parliament votes to rejoin/cancel our withdrawal AND the EU allows us to cancel our withdrawal. If there is no majority for rejoining, which there won't be, then it's irrelevant whether there is a majority for a hard Brexit. If no "soft Brexit" deal exists, Parliament has nothing to vote on. (Apart from a vote of no confidence in the government, which would be followed by another general election, not another referendum.)

There's the third possibility of extending negotiations.

[Lancasterclaret]

Which means 84% don't and I am, what's your point? Apart from rabid remoanery that is.

Fairly obvious I'd have thought but I'll spell it out.

You are voting the same way as the xenophobes and the racists.

I've not got a problem with Brexit as that what was voted for, but whatever Nigel ******* farage says about it, its not as simple as "thats it, we've gone".

And the economic argument against Brexit is still as strong as ever, which had been my point since Day 1.

[Damo]

Fairly obvious I'd have thought but I'll spell it out.

You are voting the same way as the xenophobes and the racists.

I've not got a problem with Brexit as that what was voted for, but whatever Nigel ******* farage says about it, its not as simple as "thats it, we've gone".

And the economic argument against Brexit is still as strong as ever, which had been my point since Day 1.

I reckon some people voted remain who have also murdered someone. Some people voted remain who are also paedophiles. I'd like to bet that some people who voted remain have microwaved a pet for a laugh at some point. By your logic all remain voters voted remain because they are psychopaths.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself

[dsr]

There's the third possibility of extending negotiations.

If the PM and cabinet don't offer that possibility to Parliament, then the only way Parliament could vote on it would be a de facto vote of no confidence. I dare say if Labour decided to scupper Brexit and enough Conservatives (and DUP) wanted to vote with them, then the government would do some backstairs negotiations and possibly extend it like you say. But I don't think it's likely, because how many Tory MPs are so definitely against Brexit that they would vote to bring down their government and very possibly bring about a Labour landslide? Ken Clarke, basically. There wouldn't be many more.

The House of Commons wouldn't know when to pull the trigger anyway. The government could say negotiations are continuing until X-day minus 1, and then say agreement couldn't be reached. How fast could the Commons move?

[Lancasterclaret]

As arguments go, thats Ringo level or claretandy level.

I'm basing my reply on a poll in the huffington post, in which 84% of the country should be appalled at.

It doesn't bother you how that looks?

it bothers me quite a lot

[Damo]

No because that's not the reason I voted as I did.
My point, and I think it's fairly valid, is that you cannot imply that 52% of the voters should be ashamed because some people with warped views voted the same way in a 2 way vote

[Imploding Turtle]

If the PM and cabinet don't offer that possibility to Parliament, then the only way Parliament could vote on it would be a de facto vote of no confidence. I dare say if Labour decided to scupper Brexit and enough Conservatives (and DUP) wanted to vote with them, then the government would do some backstairs negotiations and possibly extend it like you say. But I don't think it's likely, because how many Tory MPs are so definitely against Brexit that they would vote to bring down their government and very possibly bring about a Labour landslide? Ken Clarke, basically. There wouldn't be many more.

The House of Commons wouldn't know when to pull the trigger anyway. The government could say negotiations are continuing until X-day minus 1, and then say agreement couldn't be reached. How fast could the Commons move?

What makes you think that extending negotiations requires UK parliamentary approval?

[Damo]

I don't know why anyone is talking about extending negotiations at this point.
2 years should be plenty long enough to broker a deal. The ònly way anyone will benefit from extending negotiations is to prolong our current deal because their financial situation depends on it.
The 2 years should be seen as a period for people to make adjustments for what is coming. If people cannot adapt between now and then then tough luck

[BertiesBeehole]

See that 16% of people polled want EU citizens to be forced to leave after Brexit.

Still, as long as you are happy voting the same way as them......

You've broken my head.....I support Burnley but so do KRBFC and ablue.....now what do i do

[BertiesBeehole]

I'm sad

[dsr]

What makes you think that extending negotiations requires UK parliamentary approval?

Huh? My post was about how Parliament can't extend negotiations.

[Imploding Turtle]

Huh? My post was about how Parliament can't extend negotiations.

Yes they can. It requires EU agreement, but they can.

[dsr]

Yes they can. It requires EU agreement, but they can.

Which would be a de facto vote of confidence, like I said.

[Imploding Turtle]

Which would be a de facto vote of confidence, like I said.

What? You said they can't extend negotiations. They can. You didn't say that extending negotiations was a vote of confidence, you said it couldn't happen.

[dsr]

If you want to know every detail of every nuance of what I said, read the whole thing again. Post 38 was making a simplified point to help you understand that you had totally misread all the earlier posts. Specifically, I do not think and have never implied that extending negotiations requires parliamentary approval.

[Blakesheaven]

Coming back to DSR's post 27, he's right that as it stands we're out from March 2019 after the two years triggered by Article 50 are up (unless, as IT says the EU agree to a request for an extension - which could happen if the scenario below pans out).

The real problem for the government isn't securing exit from the EU (Article 50 does that) it's putting in place laws to replace the EU laws we currently use. This is the series of bills to start going through parliament in the Autumn, risibly referred to as the Great Repeal Bill. That's where the parliamentary fun and games will begin. Despite agreement with the DUP, there's no guarantee that this legislation will get through.

Added to that difficulty, there's the need to get agreement over air travel, services and lots more before 2019. The so-called 'cliff edge'.

What may happen is that once the DUP realise we're coming out of the single market, meaning a hard border in Ireland, they effectively collapse the government, meaning a fresh General Election which would effectively be a re-run of the whole issue.

Hold on tight - it's going to be a bumpy ride!

[Lancasterclaret]

Fine, it doesn't bother you.

On all these debates*, when Ringo (not as much) and claretandy (xenophobic at best) fling in their arguments (arguments that you say you don't agree with) you never comment on them. Unless to back them up.

Now apologies if you've been doing it why I've not been on the threads, but it looks like at the very least, you have sympathy for their point of view.

Anyway, the only sensible option is to go for a transitional deal and work out our departure from the EU over a decent period of time and after the govt have at least finished their impact studies on what effect this will have on our country and our economy.

You just got to hope that we haven't ****** off the EU too much so they actually agree to it.

*apologies to any er, alt-right supporters I've missed out. Here is something for you to think about

https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/statu ... 4778218496" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[nil_desperandum]

I don't know why anyone is talking about extending negotiations at this point.
2 years should be plenty long enough to broker a deal. The ònly way anyone will benefit from extending negotiations is to prolong our current deal because their financial situation depends on it.
The 2 years should be seen as a period for people to make adjustments for what is coming. If people cannot adapt between now and then then tough luck

Except its not 2 years. We have already wasted nearly 6 months since Article 50 was triggered, and have gone into it, not knowing what our policy is or what our goals are.
Added to this, any "deal" will take months to be scrutinised/ passed by bodies on both sides of the channel.
We're probably now looking at about 12 months. A transitional period is inevitable and the cabinet have pretty much conceded that, even the lunatic fringe like Liam Fox.

[Blakesheaven]

Well, LC, to put my cards on the table, I am intensely bothered about the whole Brexit issue and the forces it had unleashed. My training as a historian leads me to approaching these things in as dispassionate view as possible, however.

All my reading of history and study of politics suggests to me that there are deep and profound changes in motion currently which Brexit both symptomises and amplifies. I don't think our current constitutional arrangements will survive this whole process and the Tory party is particularly at risk. They've split previously over the Corn Laws and later over Tariff Reform. The damage from Brexit could prove far more potent.

In summary, my view is that Brexit was an unrealisable project won on a false prospectus. The rhetorical snake oil salesman who won it are about to be sunk by the attempt to deliver on their promises. This is the point where detail matters and they are far too inept, idle, arrogant to have developed any capacity in that.

Like a collapsing star, Brexit will implode on itself, likely taking the Tories with it. A smart Labour Party would keep a strategic distance so as avoid being taken down with them. Not sure we have one of those though.

[RingoMcCartney]

Well, LC, to put my cards on the table, I am intensely bothered about the whole Brexit issue and the forces it had unleashed. My training as a historian leads me to approaching these things in as dispassionate view as possible, however.

All my reading of history and study of politics suggests to me that there are deep and profound changes in motion currently which Brexit both symptomises and amplifies. I don't think our current constitutional arrangements will survive this whole process and the Tory party is particularly at risk. They've split previously over the Corn Laws and later over Tariff Reform. The damage from Brexit could prove far more potent.

In summary, my view is that Brexit was an unrealisable project won on a false prospectus. The rhetorical snake oil salesman who won it are about to be sunk by the attempt to deliver on their promises. This is the point where detail matters and they are far too inept, idle, arrogant to have developed any capacity in that.

Like a collapsing star, Brexit will implode on itself, likely taking the Tories with it. A smart Labour Party would keep a strategic distance so as avoid being taken down with them. Not sure we have one of those though.

"Tory party is particularly at risk"

Labour are just as split. London Labour are Remoaners. Out of London Labour are Brexiteers. (Burnley elected a Labour MP, yet voted nearly 70% Leave)

" an unrealisable project won on a false prospectus"

Ladies and gentlemen here are SOME of the whoppers churned out by Operation Fear/Lie-

Cameron. - World war 3 will happen if we leave the EU. LIE

Osborne. -" There would have to be an emergency budget immediately after a vote to leave" LIE

Cameron and Osborne - "Regardless of which way the vote goes, we will remain in office. As we will have been given a mandate from the British people." DAY AFTER, CAMERON SKIPPED OFF! Gideon? Not far behind him!!

Christine lagarde. "Voting brexit would be like putting a nuclear bomb under the uk economy" LIE

Alistair Darling - "confidence in the UK economy would evaporate over night. If we were to vote Leave" LIE

Nick "plans for an EU army is pure fantasy" Clegg. LIE

The promise that manufactures like Siemens and Nissan would leave and stop investing. LIE

That the stock market would crash. LIE

That the housing market would crash. LIE

More people would have voted to Leave if they hadn't fallen for the lies spewed by Remain crew. That's why when the guaranteed apocalypse that was promised, didn't happen since the vote. 84 % of voters voted for parties wanting Brexit.

Leaving a dwindling handful of desparate Remoaners. Mainly metropolitan bubble dwellers, who are concerned they may have to pay more for aupairs. . The rest of the country has simply moved on and the likes of Soubrey, Starmer, the whole Kinnock family, Clarke, Heseltine and the hard-core europhile, Clegg. Plus a little gaggle on here, simply won't let go of their tear soaked EU comfort blanket.

[JohnMcGreal]

Ringo would be the guy to jump off the roof of an 80 storey building, and as he passes each floor he'd be heard shouting "so far, so good!"

[Right_winger]

Oh shut up Lancaster you utter limp wristed libtard.

We get it, anyone who voted leave ( the majority btw ) are xenophobic, racist, homophobic and whatever other liberal claptrap you like to throw at it in your eyes. Who cares. It's actually amusing that you are throwing a tantrum over it all. Almost like everyone who doesn't have your opinion is wrong.

The soft brexit option ( stitch up by the elite ) is just a way for our politicians and their large financial backers to subvert the referendum result. I'm surprised that many people want such a half arsed arrangement. Most people either want to be in or out, and as such I'm not surprised to see such polling.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ringo would be the guy to jump off the roof of an 80 storey building, and as he passes each floor he'd be heard shouting "so far, so good!"

Another Remoaner Henny Penny!! Despite what didnt happen, after the referendum, and continues NOT to happen. You run round screaming "the sky's falling in! The sky's falling in!!"