Accident On M1

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:48 pm

For anyone heading down that way possibly for tomorrow, southbound carriageway
closed between Jcts 14 and 15. Eight killed. Awful.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:36 pm

You can put your mortgage on it, when there is loss of life on the motorway, a lorry ( or two) will be involved.

A lot of them cannot drive properly, many drive tired, and safety for many of them is an afterthought, as in 99% of accidents they will be walking away unscathed. Whenever I find myself stuck between two of them, I soon shift myself.
( I often have this thought in my head, of the first lorry stopping in traffic, while the driver of the second one falls asleep, with me the meat in the sandwich, and turning my vehicle into a dinky car..) Stay well clear.
RIP.

mkmel · Post by **mkmel** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:46 pm

I am laying in my Hospital bed here in Northampton having just had my back operation.

Reason I mention this is that on the way up here from Milton Keynes early this morning I was being driven Northwards and on the Southbound side we could see it looked bad but only in the last hour or so have I found out the awful news

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:29 pm

One of truck drivers was over the alcohol limit.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:34 pm

I've read it happened in the early hours of this morning around 3.15am and the lanes were opened this afternoon. Involving 2 lorries and the 8 people dead were travelling in a minibus.

iw1961 · Post by **iw1961** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:10 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:You can put your mortgage on it, when there is loss of life on the motorway, a lorry ( or two) will be involved.

A lot of them cannot drive properly, many drive tired, and safety for many of them is an afterthought, as in 99% of accidents they will be walking away unscathed. Whenever I find myself stuck between two of them, I soon shift myself.
( I often have this thought in my head, of the first lorry stopping in traffic, while the driver of the second one falls asleep, with me the meat in the sandwich, and turning my vehicle into a dinky car..) Stay well clear.
RIP.

What a load of nonsense that is. As someone who drives an Artic for a living around the country, the standard of driving exhibited by the general car driver is woeful. You cut artics up without thinking about stopping distances- not yours because you're OK in your car that stops on a. sixpence, you forget 44 tons can take a quarter of a mile to stop safely. Are you one of the good drivers who have paid their installments on the car so you can use your indicators? Or are you like many that just think they can do what they want?

As for saying a lot of them cannot drive properly, I suggest you have a go if you think it is that easy. The pass rates for hgv tests has been less than 50% nationally for quite a while. The standard required to pass is very high - as it should be. This is one of the reasons more employers are recruiting Eastern European drivers where test standards are a joke. I spoke to a chap at an RDC from Eastern Europe who showed me a picture of what he drove and took his test in whilst in his home country. It was a tractor and small trailer. His licence in Europe is converted over here to drive a 44 ton artic! And they drive for buttons which has depressed wages and made truck driving anything but a decent job now. No wonder there are job vacancies all over the place.

This accident looks like it is alcohol related, if so, then that is totally unacceptable and as far as I am concerned the driver deserves the lengthy prison sentence heading his way.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:15 pm

You can't argue with any of that, really.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

The only thing missing from Hampsteads post was to blame it on a dog running out into the middle of the road

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:27 pm

OMG as I was typing my 'Opinion' I though. be careful you'll upset the lorry driving lobby on here, bound to be one..

Your comments about East European lorry standards, and their licences, and driving standards validate my own views in my post, don't they?
- I am saying what you agree with.

Did you think I was referring to British lorry drivers?
Where did I say that?

Why do lorry drivers ( from any country) feel the need to drive about 3 yards behind my back bumper, whenever I am on the M1/M6 ?
That's not sensible or safe.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:29 pm

Dog ?

Well done..8 people dead, you think you're a comedian. Go for it.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:33 pm

What are you arguing about..?

I say safety is an afterthought, and another poster then says that one of the lorry drivers was over the drink/ drive limit.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:09 pm

iw1961 wrote:What a load of nonsense that is. As someone who drives an Artic for a living around the country, the standard of driving exhibited by the general car driver is woeful. You cut artics up without thinking about stopping distances- not yours because you're OK in your car that stops on a. sixpence, you forget 44 tons can take a quarter of a mile to stop safely. Are you one of the good drivers who have paid their installments on the car so you can use your indicators? Or are you like many that just think they can do what they want?

As for saying a lot of them cannot drive properly, I suggest you have a go if you think it is that easy. The pass rates for hgv tests has been less than 50% nationally for quite a while. The standard required to pass is very high - as it should be. This is one of the reasons more employers are recruiting Eastern European drivers where test standards are a joke. I spoke to a chap at an RDC from Eastern Europe who showed me a picture of what he drove and took his test in whilst in his home country. It was a tractor and small trailer. His licence in Europe is converted over here to drive a 44 ton artic! And they drive for buttons which has depressed wages and made truck driving anything but a decent job now. No wonder there are job vacancies all over the place.

This accident looks like it is alcohol related, if so, then that is totally unacceptable and as far as I am concerned the driver deserves the lengthy prison sentence heading his way.

It is a sad coincidence that as the quality and safety of our vehicles gets better and better, the quality and safety of the people driving the things gets worse and worse.

Commy · Post by **Commy** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:10 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote: Why do lorry drivers ( from any country) feel the need to drive about 3 yards behind my back bumper, whenever I am on the M1/M6 ?
That's not sensible or safe.

You must be well under the speed limit.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:32 pm

If a lorry is close to your bumper then you're going too slow, because Lorries are limited to 58 mph I think it is.

The standard of car driving in this country is absolutely shocking and I've never driven a lorry in my life.
Lorry drivers also take regular medicals, basic tests etc to prove they're fit to drive.

Meanwhile I regularly see car drivers that are too scared to overtake a lorry on a motorway or dual carriage way so they slow down, become hesitant and are a danger to other road users...

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:40 pm

I've just read:
"You must be well under the speed limit"
and
"If a lorry is close to your bumper then you're going too slow"

I won't point out the obvious. I'll let hampsteadclaret have fun doing that one.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Thanks for the driving tips lads..yes I was well under the speed limit because there was pretty heavy traffic on the M1 ( as there often is) so we were all going at about 50-55 miles an hour..not much distance to the one in front..
( why am I sat here explaining this *****?)

Sidney...I recently scrapped a Golf GTi...it had done 272,000 miles all driven by me as I bought it brand new. I have had several other cars...I think I know what I'm doing, when I press the ignition.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:45 pm

Limited at 56 mph.

I drove past this incident around 7.30 this morning heading northbound. The sight was absolutely horrific. The minibus was barely recognisable. Green screens shielding the most gruesome aspects as the emergency services recovered the dead from the scene. Anyone trying to point score on driving standards need to stop and think, it could easily have been you or loved ones heading to a match etc.

I was involved in a collision with a tanker on the M25 7 years ago. I walked away with 'only' whiplash which still troubles me to this day. I was told that i was lucky at the time. Having my car written off and spending 5 hours on a spinal board didn't feel much like luck, however after seeing what i did today, i really was being smiled on then.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:53 pm

are we sure about the 58mph?

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:54 pm

Commy wrote:You must be well under the speed limit.

I drove that stretch on the M1 on the way home after the cup win against Rovers at about 3am. The motorway at that time is full of wagons, none of them seem to care about the 50mph limit in the long stretch of roadworks down the M1 just prior to where the accident happened, some in fact did drive in the outside lane too to overtake at well over 50 (again in the roadworks).

I also experience, often, truck drivers trying to intimidate me by driving as close to me as possible, this is usually in road works. It is a little unnerving for me, because I know what would happen if I had to stop urgently for what ever reason.

I also note that in recent years with more foreign trucks on the roads, these foreign trucks and their drivers seem to take more risks, so I can conclude from my own driving experience that the foreign drivers are more dangerous.

Another point to note is that there are still plenty of truckers who think it's good to use a phone whilst driving, and some even have DVD players or tablets on their laps to watch films etc (yes, you can see the reflection in their faces of the flickering).

A lot of what I have mentioned is pretty irrelevant in this instance because some selfish cnut deemed it a cracking idea to drive a 40 ton weapon whilst drunk, I really hope he rots in a cell for causing the deaths of those innocent people in the minibus.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:08 pm

Sidney1st wrote:If a lorry is close to your bumper then you're going too slow, because Lorries are limited to 58 mph I think it is.

The standard of car driving in this country is absolutely shocking and I've never driven a lorry in my life.
Lorry drivers also take regular medicals, basic tests etc to prove they're fit to drive.

Meanwhile I regularly see car drivers that are too scared to overtake a lorry on a motorway or dual carriage way so they slow down, become hesitant and are a danger to other road users...

They shouldn't be close to your bumper no matter what speed you are doing.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:11 pm

I'm sure lorry drivers are very good.....but I don't understand why they drive 10 feet apart.

PaintYorkClaretnBlue · Post by **PaintYorkClaretnBlue** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:19 pm

It saves diesel, driving in a slip stream.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:24 pm

It's a strange accident. I frequently drive in the middle of the night and most motorways are relatively quiet at that hour (3am).

News reports seem to imply fault of the lorry drivers but could the transit van driver have fallen asleep or swerved and caused the accident?

It's all a bit sketchy and I don't really understand how the minibus was crushed.

Earlier in the week, the news was reporting trials of driverless lorries were to begin soon. Would they have prevented this?

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:29 pm

They are also speed limited. It's a strange experience if you are used to driving a car where you can put you foot down and overtake the vehicle in front. You pull out to pass a vehicle, hit the limit and find yourself doing the same speed or a fraction quicker. From experience the standard of car driving is far below that of LGV drivers. Sadly when it goes wrong like it did today, the results are catastrophic.

Claretitus · Post by **Claretitus** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:31 pm

Iw1961. You are probabably one of the truck drivers who drives in the middle lane through the roadworks at 56mph, "bullying" car drivers who prefer to stick to the 50 mph limit. Overtaking them on the inside, whilst encroaching into the next lane, giving it the big one with offensive hand gestures, that is if you have put down your mobile/tablet/ Kindle/ newspaper or paperback whilst you break the speed limit whilst on cruise control you muppet.

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:36 pm

LoveCurryPies wrote:It's a strange accident. I frequently drive in the middle of the night and most motorways are relatively quiet at that hour (3am).

News reports seem to imply fault of the lorry drivers but could the transit van driver have fallen asleep or swerved and caused the accident?

It's all a bit sketchy and I don't really understand how the minibus was crushed.

Earlier in the week, the news was reporting trials of driverless lorries were to begin soon. Would they have prevented this?

The AIM lorry was in front and had Jack knifed. The FedEx lorry was behind with the minibus in between. Obviously don't know what happened but the FedEx has gone into the AIM with the minibus in between. Both LGV potentially 44 tonnes so the minibus didn't stand a chance.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:36 pm

They might prefer to stick to 50mph but it would also be a lot safer if they moved into the inside lane if it is free and they are not overtaking.

kendalianclaret · Post by **kendalianclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:26 am

Claretitus wrote:Iw1961. You are probabably one of the truck drivers who drives in the middle lane through the roadworks at 56mph, "bullying" car drivers who prefer to stick to the 50 mph limit. Overtaking them on the inside, whilst encroaching into the next lane, giving it the big one with offensive hand gestures, that is if you have put down your mobile/tablet/ Kindle/ newspaper or paperback whilst you break the speed limit whilst on cruise control you muppet.

No lw1961 probably isn't, because i think he is one of the british drivers who don't turn there speed limiters off, i drive every day hundreds of miles a day and see all forms of bad driving, also 56mph on a speedo won't be 56mph it will be a true speed of 50-51mph has can be seen if you are running a vehicle with a sat nav fitted, so to use your words "muppet" you are probably one of those driving through road works at a speed of 50mph on your speedo when your real speed is about 45mph slowing traffic down, most hgv/large lcv drivers don't hog the middle lane unlike most car drivers, there are so many car drivers out there with no ideaof the road laws.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:56 am

99 percent of accidents i see are involving lorries. Dont care what anyone says every time I hear about an accident its almost always a lorry on the motorway. Especially round kent way.

As for the comment about restricted to 56. Well they manage to get to that on the 50 zones. Flashing and pipping right up behind you. Bullying drivers out of the way with their erratic forceful driving. They have a total disregard for other road users. They dont appreciate that if you are going slow its for a reason.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:21 am

Some interesting comments on here.

If you think you're being bullied by a lorry driver, note the reg, date, time and location and contact their boss or ring the police.
Lorries have dash cams.....

In regards to them reading the paper or watching a programme, same again, report it, ring the police etc.

No comments I see about people being so reliant on a sat nav that its stuck to their windscreen directly in front of their line of sight instead of to one side because they're useless at reading road signs etc.
Same with women putting their make up on, or blokes having a quick groom of themselves/putting their ties on whilst driving etc.
Same with eating and definitely smoking whilst driving...
Its also illegal to use a phone as a sat nav but a lot of you probably aren't aware of that one.

There is shockingly bad driving by both lorries and cars, but car drivers tend not to admit that.
As for it always being the lorries fault, not from what I've seen but there we go.
If someone feels the need to drive like a dick with an effing great big lorry next to them then they can't complain if it hits them.

I'm actually looking forward to the day self driving vehicles are the only vehicles on the road....

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:35 am

Sidney1st wrote:Its also illegal to use a phone as a sat nav but a lot of you probably aren't aware of that one.

That can't be true surely.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:38 am

As Hampstead claret has already admitted he "sh1ts himself" every time he gets near a couple of wagons I think that says all we need to know about his driving and general demeanour .

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:45 am

We don't really need a 'them and us' attitude with lorry drivers. I can understand their frustrations too, especially with car users having no regard for stopping distances when they cut in front.

One thing i'd be genuinely interested to hear from HGV drivers on here, is about the way many of them drive in a 50 zone. They seem to lose the plot completely here. From being steady away, sensible and cautious in the general motorway they suddenly start driving like furious boy racers, tailgating, flashing lights, overtaking, undertaking.. and all because someone's doing 48mph instead of 51mph.

Over a 2 mile stretch of roadworks, how much time are you saving there with all these antics? Just seems weird more than anything, not sure on what the psychology of that is. But other than that I'd say they were better than most car drivers.

TractorFace · Post by **TractorFace** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:16 am

It is a sad coincidence that as the quality and safety of our vehicles gets better and better, the quality and safety of the people driving the things gets worse and worse.

Thing is, people think they are invincible. More safety, more risk taking. This is how the idiot mind works.

BTW: One of the worst bits of driving I've seen in a long while was on the M5. 50MPH limit enforced contraflow system. A HGV driver was blasting his horn and flashing his lights at the car in front of him in the middle lane. Basically he was trying to bully his way through. The car moved over and a few seconds later the HGV driver attempted to side-swipe the car off the road. Never seen anything like it before. It could have caused a multiple pileup and fatalities.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:27 am

I see both lorry drivers have been charged with causing death by dangerous driving.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:27 am

Sidney1st wrote: Its also illegal to use a phone as a sat nav but a lot of you probably aren't aware of that one.

It isnt.

It's illegal to hold the phone whilst driving. Hands free is fine.

hampsteadclaret · Post by **hampsteadclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:45 am

32..yet another dick infesting this site these days, happy to make stuff up without a second thought.

If you put something in speech marks as you have, it sort of indicates that those were the words spoken...show me very clearly where I said those words.

Of course you won't be able to, if you sat here all day.
For the record, what I referred to in my earlier post ( a smaller vehicle getting trapped between two big lorries) looks as if this accident was caused by exactly this).

Too many people on here these days looking for an argument in post 2, post 3, post 4 stifling debate, spiking threads, insults, making stuff up...worse than it's ever been.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:54 am

Truck drivers have zillions of hours of driving experience, which is something to bear in mind when having a go when having no idea of the actual facts other than what has been speculated by the media.

In terms of safety, its again a bit weird to think that the driver of a 38 tonne artic is somehow going to be less aware of the risks than someone in a much more manoeuvrable and easier to break car.

And I worked in the haulage industry for about thirteen years (and I think Herts claret still does)

CnBtruntru · Post by **CnBtruntru** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:09 am

I drove trucks for 16 years UK and Ireland and luckily had only one slight bump with a Hungarian guy who was on the wrong side of the road second before he hit me, it was deemed 50/50 as there was no proof who was to blame, the fact there was a known prostitute in the vehicle with him and she was nowhere to be seen when the accident happened and the fact the Gardai never mentioned it in the report but told me all this when she spoke to me afterwards didn't make a blind bit of difference and luckily neither me nor the Hungarian guy or the prostitute were injured.
What I was going to say was I was just over for a funeral a week ago and on leaving the ferry in Holyhead I came upon two trucks, one passed the other who had to slow down to let him past and then as I got close in the outside lane to pass them both the one who had been passed pulled out straight in front of me, it took all of a minute to a minute and a half for them to sort out their differences and the passing truck then finally pulled back in behind as he did not have the speed to get past, I also noticed on quite a few occasions that trucks are doing well above the 56mph speed limit and have noticed this for quite some years, as for saying all truck drivers are dangerous would be totally wrong, there are a hell of a lot more car drivers and thousands of them should not even be on the road especially motorways with 70mph speed limits, if the truck driver was over the alcohol limit then hopefully he gets the book thrown at him and it will help serve as a warning to others, as what has been said about eastern european licences etc it is totally true, I have worked with some of these lads and 80% I would not even allow to drive a car, they should all be made to take a test before allowed a UK licence.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:09 am

There is no doubt however that certain HGV's as of course cars-tailgate- and that is far more serious with an HGV when it shunts/demolishes a family car than when a family car shunts another or an HGV
One of the guys has been charged with driving whilst above the legal limit for alcohol.
Dreadful occurrence and the truth will eventually come out in Court

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:11 am

Course, just for a bit of balance, we had four polish drivers at our place and they never had an accident and worked properly.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:11 am

: wp_ss_20170827_0002.png (226.22 KiB) Viewed 5582 times

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:17 am

Sidney1st wrote:
wp_ss_20170827_0002.png

So as your article states. it's not illegal to use a mobile phone as a sat - nav. Just illegal to touch it.
If set up on dash board hands free, and you only programme it when parked up, then it's still legal.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:35 am

They also need to ensure people stop putting them in their direct line of sight.

People will still touch the screen on their mobile when they get a text or it rings, they cant help themselves.

StuffyClaret · Post by **StuffyClaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:58 am

Both lorry drivers appear to be British......that's buggered up some aspersions on here!

Herts Clarets · Post by **Herts Clarets** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:16 am

StuffyClaret wrote:Both lorry drivers appear to be British......that's buggered up some aspersions on here!

Ryszard Masierak is one of the least British sounding names i have come across......

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:18 am

Devils_Advocate wrote:They might prefer to stick to 50mph but it would also be a lot safer if they moved into the inside lane if it is free and they are not overtaking.

I think truck drivers are pretty good at keeping to the left lane. Sometimes you wish they could overtake each other a little faster but that is down to their weight. Very sad incident for all that are involved.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:20 am

Herts Clarets wrote:Ryszard Masierak is one of the least British sounding names i have come across......

I don't know the nationality of the drivers but usually nationality isn't determined by someone's name.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:26 am

LoveCurryPies wrote:I think truck drivers are pretty good at keeping to the left lane. Sometimes you wish they could overtake each other a little faster but that is down to their weight. Very sad incident for all that are involved.

Think you misunderstood my post. I was replying to claretitus post around truck drivers bullying sensible cautious drivers out of the middle lane and undertaking them just because they are sticking to the 50mph speed limit. My point was questioning why these drivers are crawling along in middle lane if the inside lane is free and they are not overtaking.

Not condoning tailgating and undertaking but cars who slow down to 50mph and below and then refuse to move out of the outside and middle lanes are not helping matters and are contributing to the dangerous situations that arise

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:51 am

The point is surely that there is a 50mph speed limit so even if you are in the middle or fast lane this limit applies...I regularly drive through the long stretches of roadworks between Js 16 and 19 of both M1 and M6 and lorries are regularly stuck to my rear bumper when I'm trying hard to avoid getting another 3 points on my licence (I already have 6 pts , both offences for doing 56mph in these roadworks).