Accident On M1

[Spijed]

I don't know the nationality of the drivers but usually nationality isn't determined by someone's name.

Whether it is or not, we'll still need to import and export goods to/from Europe.

The only issue is a left hand drive on British motorways. Can drivers sitting in the left hand seat see as well as a British lorry?

[Devils_Advocate]

The point is surely that there is a 50mph speed limit so even if you are in the middle or fast lane this limit applies...I regularly drive through the long stretches of roadworks between Js 16 and 19 of both M1 and M6 and lorries are regularly stuck to my rear bumper when I'm trying hard to avoid getting another 3 points on my licence (I already have 6 pts , both offences for doing 56mph in these roadworks).

Its equally the point that you should keep to the inside lane unless overtaking. Two wrongs dont make a right so we should all just concentrate on driving properly ourselves and if those speeding, tailgating, undertaking etc get caught they will get punished accordingly

[Rileybobs]

There are some 50mph average speed check stretches of motorway with signs saying 'stay in lane'.

[Devils_Advocate]

Course there is and there are times when all three lanes are full and moving at the same speed and plenty of other exceptions and in those instances follow the rules set.

The original post i replied talked about lorry drivers tailgating and undertaking in general so the clear question is why are you in the middle lane as if you are going to moan about bad driving make sure you are not driving poorly yourself and in general not moving out of the middle and outside lanes when not overtaking is bad driving

[arise_sir_charge]

Tell you what really winds me up......

When someone who knows a stretch of road better than you do, knows there
Isn't another 50mph camera (despite still being in the 50mph zone) and they speed past you gesticulating or generally being an arse.

[LoveCurryPies]

I honestly think many car drivers don't realise you are supposed to drive in the left hand lane. Do they still teach that? Maybe we need some educational tv adverts...like the old weaver-beaver ones.

Tailgating really should be an offence. So many vehicles (of all types) drive far too close and in a deliberate manner to scare the driver in front.

[nil_desperandum]

I honestly think many car drivers don't realise you are supposed to drive in the left hand lane. Do they still teach that? Maybe we need some educational tv adverts...like the old weaver-beaver ones.

I don't think that that is the case, or shouldn't be, when everyone is driving at pretty much bang on 50mph through an average speed-check zone on the motorway.
e.g. If everyone kept in the left hand lane on that 20 mile stretch through Cheshire and Stafford, then it would take approx. 3 times as long to get through.
(I think!!).

[TractorFace]

Tailgating really should be an offence. So many vehicles (of all types) drive far too close and in a deliberate manner to scare the driver in front.

Tailgating is an offence (£100 and three points). Hard to enforce, I suppose. Same with mobile phone use - I see loads of people driving while using a mobile phone. There needs to be a clampdown on both.

[iw1961]

Iw1961. You are probabably one of the truck drivers who drives in the middle lane through the roadworks at 56mph, "bullying" car drivers who prefer to stick to the 50 mph limit. Overtaking them on the inside, whilst encroaching into the next lane, giving it the big one with offensive hand gestures, that is if you have put down your mobile/tablet/ Kindle/ newspaper or paperback whilst you break the speed limit whilst on cruise control you muppet.

Well sorry to disappoint you but that isn't me. In fact I have only recently left one of the most well known haulage firms (think big Green trucks and tv shows) where I was a driver mentor, taking new drivers out showing them how to drive. Oh and just to disappoint you a little more...no accidents, no convictions.

Too many comments on here focus around speed limits. That is nonsense. You drive in a manner appropriate to the prevailing conditions. Speed limits are precisely that. They are a limit NOT a target. Yes I see wagon drivers tailgating each other and frankly I despair. I have seen numerous after effects of crashes at the side of the road, but more just involving cars. It is easier and more economical to just back off a little bit.

50 mph limits can be a problem because when you leave your gap between you and the artic in front guess what...car drops into space because they don't understand that they can stop but the wagon cannot. I think there needs to be a degree of realism here as well. The roads have become significantly more aggressive over the past twenty years. The belief that the road is mine pervades across motoring in general. There is a lack of respect ...bit like society in general. That is why in my opinion drivers of all ilks behave the way they do.

One of the reasons I have left my previous employers was because of the way hgv drivers are treated in general. Poor working conditions, the pay does not reflect the responsibility.

I replied to this thread initially to defend the majority of truck drivers in the wake of a terrible tragedy that sees a family wiped out by the actions of a couple of idiots who if the rumours are true deserve lengthy prison sentences. Not to name call. The lives of eight people are worthy of better behaviour. I hope by the time you leave school you will have learnt that.

[nil_desperandum]

50 mph limits can be a problem because when you leave your gap between you and the artic in front guess what...car drops into space because they don't understand that they can stop but the wagon cannot.

.

That's exactly my experience, though it's not just gaps behind lorries, it's any reasonable gap you leave. I'm not a perfect driver, but I always try to leave a good gap, (relative to the speed I'm driving), and I find drivers constantly dodge in front of me.
And guess what?. In most cases we both reach the end of the restricted zone within a few seconds of each other.

[Rileybobs]

I agree with Nil that it's usually necessary for cars to occupy all 3 lanes in a 50mph average speed zone even though each lane will be moving at approximately the same speed.

[Devils_Advocate]

Id agree with in general but I have also seen where you get oblivious driver crawling in the fast lane with clear road in front and with the whole motorway queued up behind them as noone can get past causing tailbacks.

There is a balance and any driver who thinks just cause they are at the limit of the speed limit they dont need to move in where possible to let faster cars past are just as big a problem as the impatient bullying drivers

[Rileybobs]

I agree. Oblivious drivers sitting in the middle or outside lane are problem. I think it's just a different scenario in a 50mph zone.

[Claretitus]

No lw1961 probably isn't, because i think he is one of the british drivers who don't turn there speed limiters off, i drive every day hundreds of miles a day and see all forms of bad driving, also 56mph on a speedo won't be 56mph it will be a true speed of 50-51mph has can be seen if you are running a vehicle with a sat nav fitted, so to use your words "muppet" you are probably one of those driving through road works at a speed of 50mph on your speedo when your real speed is about 45mph slowing traffic down, most hgv/large lcv drivers don't hog the middle lane unlike most car drivers, there are so many car drivers out there with no ideaof the road laws.

I also drive for a living. Done over 250,000 miles in slightly over 2 1/2 years. I drive high end cars, most with built in sat-nav, but always put my own on the screen, mainly so I know what speed I do in roadworks, etc. So please don't tell me I'm doing 45 mph, I know my speed, and the speed of these lunatics in lorries, NOT all with foreign number plates. During peak hours, i.e. 6am till 8pm they should be made to stick to near side lane of a 3 lane motorway, 2 near side lanes of a 4 lane motorway. End of.

[Top Claret]

There are some awful car drivers on the road who drive to slow for the conditions, which must infuriate truck and coach drivers. Just got back from London and got sick of seeing car drivers hogging the middle lane and coming down the slip road to slow and joining the motorway to early

[Claretitus]

So you worked for S*****t. Trust me, their drivers are among the worst culprits. Just 'cos they wear a shirt n tie doesn't make them better drivers. And as for your comment about when I leave school, I'll lay Lincoln odds I'm older than you. All you truckers are the same, " it's not our fault ". But usually, it is.

[Mansfield-Claret]

The point is surely that there is a 50mph speed limit so even if you are in the middle or fast lane this limit applies...I regularly drive through the long stretches of roadworks between Js 16 and 19 of both M1 and M6 and lorries are regularly stuck to my rear bumper when I'm trying hard to avoid getting another 3 points on my licence (I already have 6 pts , both offences for doing 56mph in these roadworks).

if you are doing 50mph in your car in real terms you are doing 45mph due to cars not being calibrated like us trucks, so will look like we are going through alot fast than you think

[Mansfield-Claret]

So you worked for S*****t. Trust me, their drivers are among the worst culprits. Just 'cos they wear a shirt n tie doesn't make them better drivers. And as for your comment about when I leave school, I'll lay Lincoln odds I'm older than you. All you truckers are the same, " it's not our fault ". But usually, it is.

at least you got your user name right with TIT in it

and they dont wear a shirt and tie anymore and yes they are crap because most of there drivers arent british, and this is where the problem is,

you have loads of eatern block drivers coming to drive trucks here, they get a class one licences for driving a tractor over there 50 euro, most have never driven a class 1 before, i for one will never employ a eastern european driver, you can smell the alcohol on them at RDC's,

we need to bring in, if there coming here to drive a truck for a living then they must take a british test, like i had to and many other have had to, lucky ive had mine for nearly 30yrs and cost me £450 , but the lads that are doing it now its costing them £3k mark

if i go to the usa or canada for a driving job even though ive been driving trucks for years including africa and middle east, i still need to take the test before i can get a job

[Mansfield-Claret]

also come to light the mini bus driver only had around 3 hrs sleep before leaving, thing theres more to come from this crash yet

[Claret&Green]

OMG as I was typing my 'Opinion' I though. be careful you'll upset the lorry driving lobby on here, bound to be one..

Your comments about East European lorry standards, and their licences, and driving standards validate my own views in my post, don't they?
- I am saying what you agree with.

Did you think I was referring to British lorry drivers?
Where did I say that?

Why do lorry drivers ( from any country) feel the need to drive about 3 yards behind my back bumper, whenever I am on the M1/M6 ?
That's not sensible or safe.

If you are driving on a motorway at 70 mph (the speed limit) then no lorry will be any where near you as they are restricted to 56mph, or if a small truck (7.5tonne) 66mph. Basically there are a few bad Lorry drivers, a few bad van drivers and a few bad car drivers, but you do seem to tar all commercial drivers with the same brush.

[CrosspoolClarets]

The driver who had been drinking in one of the lorries and had been charged was Polish.

Big issues within the EU about freedom not to have to take a second driving test. Maybe he would have passed in a right hand drive. Maybe he wouldnt. The highway code teaches etiquette too and not enough overseas drivers appear to drive in the way we have got used to (yes, we have plenty of maniacs here too, deal with those separately).

After Brexit these are the issues we have to address. Not hard to have a compulsory 2 hour course followed by a driving test for new migrants.

[Spijed]

also come to light the mini bus driver only had around 3 hrs sleep before leaving, thing theres more to come from this crash yet

3 hrs sleep?

That's hardly a problem is it as I suspect there are thousands upon thousands of drivers on our roads who've driven with little or no sleep many times.

[Sidney1st]

Biggest issue it would appear is the Lorry had been stationary in the middle of the left hand/slow lane of the M1 prior to the crash for approx 12 mins.
The mini bus driver didn't see said stationary lorry and swerved to avoid him, but collided with the lorry that was in the Middle lane and they both hit the stationary lorry.

It was a massive tragedy and the first lorry driver clearly shouldn't have been on the road, but you have to wonder how alert the minibus driver was not to see a stationary HGV on the road in front of him...

[Herts Clarets]

I don't know the nationality of the drivers but usually nationality isn't determined by someone's name.

The driver who was over the DD limit was Polish and had the charges read to him via an interpreter. There is a big issue with poorly qualified Eastern European LGV drivers and their drinking. Talk to many drivers about the empty vodka bottles around lay bys where EE lorries park overnight.

As soon as it was reported one was over the DD limit, I said guaranteed Eastern European. Call me prejudiced or call me experienced, either way I was on the mark.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Interesting the driver of the second lorry has been charged with dangerous driving as well.

[WadingInDeeper]

Almost every journey you see poor and dangerous driving by car, van and wagon drivers.

Yesterday (m5 and m6) I saw a car drive in the middle lane for most of 10 miles, most because the rest of the time she was in the outside lane for far too long.

Car/van drivers speeding through road works.

Wagon driver swerve onto the hard shoulder 3 times, to the extent we pulled alongside (wider than normal) for my wife to check he wasn't slimmed over his wheel. He wasn't, he was busy writing something down.

Another doing the same but swerving into the middle land.

Wagons tailgating through road works. Including one who, when the van he wasn't tailgating wasn't being intimidated, swerved, just missing the back of van, into the outside lane which was too narrow for him meaning he could just get through between the van and the concrete reservation.

[aggi]

There obviously is an issue with HGVs on the roads. They are involved in a disproportionate number of fatalities and serious injuries given how few are on the roads.

Whether this is the fault of the vehicles or quality of driving or a combination of the two is up for debate. Having HGVs drive around town centres where there are pedestrians, cyclists, etc is always going to result in fatalities. They are poorly designed with limited visibility, fairly often manoeuvring around a commercial/building site you need a banksman but once in a busy city one driver is sufficient.

[WadingInDeeper]

Whether this is the fault of the vehicles or quality of driving or a combination of the two is up for debate. Having HGVs drive around town centres where there are pedestrians, cyclists, etc is always going to result in fatalities.

Or unrealistic schedules from employers putting pressure on drivers.