Shaun Harvey thinks people are taking the p***

[ClaretTony]

Or is it him?

He's not happy with comments on the way the League Cup is being run.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football ... na-Wembley" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ralph]

When he sits down to explain what the EFL clubs are looking to achieve does he tell the Chinese that the ultimate aim is to reach the top level in English football which since 1992 means technically exiting the EFL he is so keen to trumpet ?

As an aside as topflight clubs are not members of the EFL why do we enter their Cup ?

[ClaretTony]

He's very popular in West Yorkshire is Shaun - he was at Bradford City when they twice went into administration and then followed that up by doing the same at Leeds. Quite how on earth this buffoon was ever allowed near the Football League defies any sort of logic, but I suppose they do have previous for appointing the wrong people.

The sooner he's gone, the better.

[martin_p]

One assumes he's trying to 'build the value of our competition outside the UK' because he realises that everyone in the UK treats it as a bit of a joke these days. It's become a bit like the Sherpa Van Trophy was for us back in '88, no interest up until the semi-final and the chance of Wembley.

[ralph]

"It's become a bit like the Sherpa Van Trophy was for us back in '88, no interest up until the semi-final and the chance of Wembley.
Top"

It's been like that since day one in 1960 ... smaller crowds ... single sheet programmes ...weakened teams... smaller clubs reaching finals because in truth the bigger clubs had other things to worry about ?

[martin_p]

"It's become a bit like the Sherpa Van Trophy was for us back in '88, no interest up until the semi-final and the chance of Wembley.
Top"

It's been like that since day one in 1960 ... smaller crowds ... single sheet programmes ...weakened teams... smaller clubs reaching finals because in truth the bigger clubs had other things to worry about ?

But not to the extent it is now I think. I don't remember the 60s, but when I became interested in football in the mid 70s I don't think the top clubs were making 8,9,10 changes from the previous Saturdays. And even clubs down at League 1 and League 2 level do it now,. that's a relatively new phenomenon.

[ralph]

But not to the extent it is now I think. I don't remember the 60s, but when I became interested in football in the mid 70s I don't think the top clubs were making 8,9,10 changes from the previous Saturdays. And even clubs down at League 1 and League 2 level do it now,. that's a relatively new phenomenon.

We didn't enter the League Cup for a number of years because Burnley deemed it to be clogging up the fixture calendar after the debacle of the opening 60-1 season ... the crowds for FLC games were always well below the norm until the latter stages and yes clubs are picking more obviously weakened sides on a more regular basis however I would argue that it is becoming increasingly common rather than anything new.

[ClaretTony]

But not to the extent it is now I think. I don't remember the 60s, but when I became interested in football in the mid 70s I don't think the top clubs were making 8,9,10 changes from the previous Saturdays. And even clubs down at League 1 and League 2 level do it now,. that's a relatively new phenomenon.

When it started in 1960, a number of top clubs declined the invitation to join. We did play in it and reached the semi-finals before losing to Aston Villa. In that first season we received complaints from Brentford for fielding a weakened team. I've just looked it up and on the previous Saturday we'd won 5-3 at Bolton in the league.

Team v Bolton: Adam Blacklaw, John Angus, Billy Marshall, Walter Joyce, Tommy Cummings, Brian Miller, John Connelly, Jimmy McIlroy, Ray Pointer, Jimmy Robson, Brian Pilkington.

Team v Brentford: Jim Furnell, David Smith, Billy Marshall, David Walker, John Talbut, Jimmy Scott, Trevor Meredith, Billy White, Andy Lochhead, Ronnie Fenton, Gordon Harris.

So we made 10 changes with Marshall, deputising for Alex Elder, the only player to play in both games.

We then withdrew from the competition from 1961/62 for four consecutive seasons after which I believe it became compulsory to play and we didn't ever do something like that again until recently.

It's never been a big competition and in more recent years a lot of the teams make a lot of changes, but that's happening in the FA Cup too.

Under Harvey, the league have given up their right to call themselves THE Football League and now call themselves EFL, they have invited Premier League under21 teams into one of their cup competitions despite strong opposition to it, and are now trying to tout themselves globally.

[duncandisorderly]

Under Harvey, the league have given up their right to call themselves THE Football League and now call themselves EFL, they have invited Premier League under21 teams into one of their cup competitions despite strong opposition to it, and are now trying to tout themselves globally.

It's not called The Football League anymore?

[ClaretTony]

It's not called The Football League anymore?

No - it's EFL, the League Cup without the sponsors name is the EFL Cup and they've even moved back into Preston at the newly named EFL House.

[martin_p]

When it started in 1960, a number of top clubs declined the invitation to join. We did play in it and reached the semi-finals before losing to Aston Villa. In that first season we received complaints from Brentford for fielding a weakened team. I've just looked it up and on the previous Saturday we'd won 5-3 at Bolton in the league.

Team v Bolton: Adam Blacklaw, John Angus, Billy Marshall, Walter Joyce, Tommy Cummings, Brian Miller, John Connelly, Jimmy McIlroy, Ray Pointer, Jimmy Robson, Brian Pilkington.

Team v Brentford: Jim Furnell, David Smith, Billy Marshall, David Walker, John Talbut, Jimmy Scott, Trevor Meredith, Billy White, Andy Lochhead, Ronnie Fenton, Gordon Harris.

So we made 10 changes with Marshall, deputising for Alex Elder, the only player to play in both games.

We then withdrew from the competition from 1961/62 for four consecutive seasons after which I believe it became compulsory to play and we didn't ever do something like that again until recently.

It's never been a big competition and in more recent years a lot of the teams make a lot of changes, but that's happening in the FA Cup too.

Under Harvey, the league have given up their right to call themselves THE Football League and now call themselves EFL, they have invited Premier League under21 teams into one of their cup competitions despite strong opposition to it, and are now trying to tout themselves globally.

All undeniably true (but before my time). But by the time I was in to football it was a big competition, probably aided by the fact that the winners got into the Cup Winners Cup (in the days when only three teams would represent us in Europe). It had managed to 'build the brand' but it's definitely been on the wane for a few years. One problem of course is that the winner no longer gets into Europe and of course the fact that Premier League clubs are so focussed on making sure that they don't take the massive financial hit of relegation that winning something seems to be of secondary importance for most. Less understandable is why lower league clubs seems to treat it with such disdain these days.

But essentially it's dead in the water as a competition these days and I don't think many would mourn it's passing (unless we get to the final this year, in which case it's great!!)

[ralph]

The ECWC was for FA Cup winners ... I wouldn't have time to check but it's been a long time if ever since England only had three clubs in Europe (ban excluded)
We'd have one in the EC one in The CWC and a couple at least in the Fairs/UEFA cup

[martin_p]

The ECWC was for FA Cup winners

You're right, got confused, but League Cup winners did get a UEFA Cup spot I think. I've also got the 'only three teams in Europe' bit wrong, I'd totally forgotten about the UEFA Cup!

[ralph]

easily done .. old age yes UEFA cup for the FLC winners ..
but only if it suited the FL I think .. QPR were not allowed in or Swindon ?
..
time for 18t century Europe now off to work ..

[ClaretTony]

The competition became bigger when they moved the final to Wembley in 1967 and then when the winners got a UEFA Cup place.

It is a dead competition now to be honest. If you get a good run in it then fine but in the early rounds it generates no interest at all really.

I've just looked back at the 2008/09 season and the attendances we played in front of. Look at the first three.

Bury (a) - 4,276
Oldham (h) - 5,528
Fulham (h) - 7,119
Chelsea (a) - 41,369
Arsenal (h) - 19,045
Tottenham (a) - 31,377
Tottenham (h) - 19,533

[ClaretTony]

easily done .. old age yes UEFA cup for the FLC winners ..
but only if it suited the FL I think .. QPR were not allowed in or Swindon ?
..
time for 18t century Europe now off to work ..

I don't know when the UEFA Cup place was first introduced but I think it was after the days of QPR and Swindon who were two of the first three Wembley winners - but it was stipulated that the winners only got a European place if they were in the top division.

[ralph]

Yes I think you are right Tony ...I think the early 70s Anglo-Italian Cup grew from some discontent at that decision ?

[Buxtonclaret]

....."That is not to mention the two or three people who might one day be potential investors in our clubs.”.....

Not sure what to make of that bit, either....

[ClaretTony]

Just done some googling and Spurs, winners in 1971, were the first to win a European place.

[Suratclaret]

[quote="ClaretTony"]When it started in 1960, a number of top clubs declined the invitation to join. We did play in it and reached the semi-finals before losing to Aston Villa. In that first season we received complaints from Brentford for fielding a weakened team. I've just looked it up and on the previous Saturday we'd won 5-3 at Bolton in the league.

Team v Bolton: Adam Blacklaw, John Angus, Billy Marshall, Walter Joyce, Tommy Cummings, Brian Miller, John Connelly, Jimmy McIlroy, Ray Pointer, Jimmy Robson, Brian Pilkington.

Team v Brentford: Jim Furnell, David Smith, Billy Marshall, David Walker, John Talbut, Jimmy Scott, Trevor Meredith, Billy White, Andy Lochhead, Ronnie Fenton, Gordon Harris.

So we made 10 changes with Marshall, deputising for Alex Elder, the only player to play in both games.



probably Brentford were really complaining about Burnley fielding Andy Lochhead...

[ashtonlongsider]

Big cup competition or not I'd be delighted if we could win it for once.

[Sausage]

Shaun Harvey is absolutely correct; we are taking the p!ss.

Forget the fact that many of the big clubs have devalued it over the last 20 years, it's been a joke of a competition for longer than I care to remember. The early rounds have been regionalised then nationalised and then regionalised again. It's had two-legged ties in the early rounds and then single legs for the last few years. For some unfathomable reason it's got a two-legged semi-final that is designed to favour the side playing away in the second leg. And the winner gets a cup with three handles.

"Ah, but it's a trip to Wembley". Aye, so is an Adele concert.

"But it's a route into Europe." Yep, the UEFA cup that so many teams similarly can't be arsed with in the early rounds.

[Dazzler]

Has anybody asked him why it took over 30 minutes to pick just 32 balls out?

The world cup finals draw is done quicker once the first one is picked out.