Gay and a claret? me too!

[Sidney1st]

Not that I'm aware of and it isn't really needed.

[Lancasterclaret]

The whole last thread on this last time was taken over by those outraged at the idea of a special seating section, even though no one ever suggested it!

[Inchy]

Very weird to get annoyed by something not even being suggested

[Paul Waine]

I'm a scanner not a reader but if you're suggesting there is prejudice, of course there is, but combating it is surely about integration and inclusion and not separation?
I can understand a LGBTQ nightclub, because the reason people go to clubs is to be around their preferred kind of people and environment, but with BFC the reason, the commonality, is surely football and BFC.
Should they get their own seating block, stewarded off and their own half time area, that wouldn't help it to be accepted as the norm, just be a claret and be gay or not.
There's a strange relationship at Southern away games between the new attending Premier League away games Southern Clarets and Northern Clarets.
20 years ago the hardcore 1000 away fans were natural with each other wherever they were from but the extra numbers and no spaces between is a little awkward at times, should we segregate or let it blend.
Now if we split the away allocation to those who wanted to stand and those that wanted to sit that is practicality.
For football supporting why is gender and sexual preference an issue to those of LGBTQ?
Sounds like an stance that you're either with us or you're not, a look at us we are different, special maybe, and that's not very liberal or progressive in my opinion.

Hi Bleeding, I feel a little bad now, you might identify me as a "southern claret" - lived down here 30 years - but proudly going on every game (when I can get a ticket) with the scarf I was first wearing when I started going on t'Turf in 1967 - 50 years. I hadn't noticed the "strange relationship" - but, then I've never been that aware.

I don't think the proposal is for a separate seating block for LGBTQ+ fans. It should be that all fans are integrated. But, I think it means that the non-LGBTQ+ fans remember that some of their fellow fans might be uncomfortable with "homophobic chants."

And, I'm pretty sure we all like to see grown men hugging and kissing - because that's how Premier League footballers celebrate when a goal is scored.

UTC

[JohnMac]

So why have you felt the need to come on the thread to say you don't feel the need to join it. I'm sure the op wasn't reaching out to you anyway. No one, but no one, comes on other supporter club requests/threads and preaches to the op about how they are 'separating themselves' from the rest of Burnley supporters. So why this one?

I haven't. The comment was aimed at Sydney 1st for his comment, 'I'm confused' but hey ho, keep making up your own agenda and the world will be a much nicer place.

FWIW I wish the op every success with what he is trying to achieve.

[UpTheBeehole]

BleedingClaret has a bit of a history of embarrassing himself.

He reminds me of Major Misunderstanding in the Viz

[martin_p]

I haven't. The comment was aimed at Sydney 1st for his comment, 'I'm confused' but hey ho, keep making up your own agenda and the world will be a much nicer place.

FWIW I wish the op every success with what he is trying to achieve.

Well apart from in the post I directly quote, but whatever!

[Rumbletonk]

I see the gingers have been maliciously overlooked yet again!

[BleedingClaret]

Hi Bleeding, I feel a little bad now, you might identify me as a "southern claret" - lived down here 30 years - but proudly going on every game (when I can get a ticket) with the scarf I was first wearing when I started going on t'Turf in 1967 - 50 years. I hadn't noticed the "strange relationship" - but, then I've never been that aware.

I don't think the proposal is for a separate seating block for LGBTQ+ fans. It should be that all fans are integrated. But, I think it means that the non-LGBTQ+ fans remember that some of their fellow fans might be uncomfortable with "homophobic chants."

And, I'm pretty sure we all like to see grown men hugging and kissing - because that's how Premier League footballers celebrate when a goal is scored.

UTC

Basically ****** Northern lads are arseholes and Southern families are not.
I remember being at Brentford away, the cracking win one, and a few of the lads from Accy Clarets were being a little boisterous and there was a young lass, maybe 15, with her parents, who was nervously glancing at the dancing chanting lads. We were on the lower terrace.
I know it sounds daft but I knew they were Southerners and reassured her and her parents that they were nice lads really just a little over oiled.
We got a free kick I told them we were going to score and suggested they stand aside a further yard, they did as the Accy Clareters flew past them as the free kick flew in. We celebrated and shared a smile, Integration, she'll know what to expect and what to do next time, not segregation.

[Inchy]

Has anyone suggested secregating in the stands?

[Sausage]

I know it sounds daft but I knew they were Southerners

Go on then, I'll take the bait: what does a southerner look like? I've been living among them for 17 years now and such knowledge would help me immensely.

[Lancasterclaret]

Not stained by the coal from the mines I think.

Possibly walks on streets paved with gold.

[martin_p]

Go on then, I'll take the bait: what does a southerner look like? I've been living among them for 17 years now and such knowledge would help me immensely.

I'm with Bleeding, I don't mind Southerners coming to matches just as long as they don't expect us proper Northern fans not to behave like d1ckheads. That's integration that is!

[dsr]

Go on then, I'll take the bait: what does a southerner look like? I've been living among them for 17 years now and such knowledge would help me immensely.

If male, they don't have a flat cap or a whippet; if female, they don't have clogs and a shawl.

[JohnMac]

Well apart from in the post I directly quote, but whatever!

'It's a sad sad world world when people are so easily offended and I would happily quote this at any A to Z meeting.

My own opinion is if the op feels the need to form a group then fine go ahead but I do not feel the need to join it, or any other exclusive club to support Burnley'.

This was my post, we obviously interpet things differently so will park it.

Here's hoping for 3 points on Sunday, a sentiment directed toward ALL CLARETS.

UTC

[Rumbletonk]

Has anyone suggested secregating in the stands?

I'm not sure secretaries require their own gates

[Blackrod]

As mentioned in one of the posts you could be sat next to someone for 20 years not knowing anything about them except at the match you have a common aim to support your team. No need for labels and separate groups. I go for escapism where you can forget about everything but the football.

[BleedingClaret]

Go on then, I'll take the bait: what does a southerner look like? I've been living among them for 17 years now and such knowledge would help me immensely.

i said it sounds daft, but they were sober, well dressed, quiet, no profanities etc ( I know this suggests West Ham fans aren't Southerners)
Plus the girl was looking at the lads like they were aliens a mix of fear and fascination.
Anyway I was right, so there!

[BleedingClaret]

As mentioned in one of the posts you could be sat next to someone for 20 years not knowing anything about them except at the match you have a common aim to support your team. No need for labels and separate groups. I go for escapism where you can forget about everything but the football.

You know what if one of the lads that passes me to get to their seat, turned up on the Palace game in a Marilyn Munroe style dress, Claret but with light blue piping, and heels, I'd probably just go, Alright mate, you look nice, 3 points today Pal?

[COYC73]

I see the gingers have been maliciously overlooked yet again!

I was thinking the same thing whilst reading the above comments.....
People need to stand up and fight for Ginger rights.... and I'm not even Ginger, but one of my daughters are.....I feel bad for her when you hear Ginger slurs.....but she looks at me and just shrug's it off

[Rileybobs]

If you're heterosexual and attend with your partner no one is going to care if you hold hands, kiss etc.

The same cannot be said for other sexualities.

I can't imagine the reaction would be much different in a football stadium than it would be on your local high street.

[Steddyman]

As I have read this thread from start to finish my opinion has changed. Initially I thought like many others there was no point in segregating yourself into another minority group rather than just joining the rest of the clarets.

However the coach argument I believe stands for LGBTQ people and that you also may want a safe and supporting environment where you can discuss both the team you love and the issues you face collectively in life. Go for it.

I would like to propose we also have a Not an Arsehole supporters group. So we can get our own away coaches not filled with drunk idiots singing homophobic and all manner of other disgraceful songs about dead owners. Maybe we can even have a part of the ground where you don't need to stand (rather than being allowed to sit) next to a half naked fat bloke stood on the chair next to you?

[Paul Waine]

Basically ****** Northern lads are arseholes and Southern families are not.
I remember being at Brentford away, the cracking win one, and a few of the lads from Accy Clarets were being a little boisterous and there was a young lass, maybe 15, with her parents, who was nervously glancing at the dancing chanting lads. We were on the lower terrace.
I know it sounds daft but I knew they were Southerners and reassured her and her parents that they were nice lads really just a little over oiled.
We got a free kick I told them we were going to score and suggested they stand aside a further yard, they did as the Accy Clareters flew past them as the free kick flew in. We celebrated and shared a smile, Integration, she'll know what to expect and what to do next time, not segregation.

Yes, that night on the Brentford terraces was great - I started to get excited as I approached the ground, knowing that it was "all standing." Just like the early 70s on the Longside.

UTC

[NottsClaret]

I was just forming a forthright opinion on this red hot topic, then realised it didn't affect me or my family in any way and reckoned if Alice and friends want to form a group it's not really any concern of mine.

[AliceDevine]

I can't imagine the reaction would be much different in a football stadium than it would be on your local high street.

You're probably right. Verbal abuse, harassment, being spat at, protested against, physically assaulted....

While it's great that so many people on here assume that equality Is here, it actually makes it hard to express and make people understand that equality has not yet been achieved, how things that a straight married male (for example) takes for granted is something that those in the LGBTQ community are hoping for.

[Rileybobs]

You're probably right. Verbal abuse, harassment, being spat at, protested against, physically assaulted....

While it's great that so many people on here assume that equality Is here, it actually makes it hard to express and make people understand that equality has not yet been achieved, how things that a straight married male (for example) takes for granted is something that those in the LGBTQ community are hoping for.

My point being that the issue is no more intensified at a football match than it would be at the cinema or the local ice-skating rink. Would there be a requirement for a LGBTQ Cinema 'go-ers' club?

[Sidney1st]

It would be intensified, lets be honest.

[AliceDevine]

As I have read this thread from start to finish my opinion has changed. Initially I thought like many others there was no point in segregating yourself into another minority group rather than just joining the rest of the clarets.

However the coach argument I believe stands for LGBTQ people and that you also may want a safe and supporting environment where you can discuss both the team you love and the issues you face collectively in life. Go for it.

I would like to propose we also have a Not an Arsehole supporters group. So we can get our own away coaches not filled with drunk idiots singing homophobic and all manner of other disgraceful songs about dead owners. Maybe we can even have a part of the ground where you don't need to stand (rather than being allowed to sit) next to a half naked fat bloke stood on the chair next to you?

It'll be the LGBTQ supporters club you'll be looking for then

Well, actually, can't promise the sitting at away games...

[Lancasterclaret]

Not sure about that Rileybobs.

I stood on the Longside, and now sit in it. Its changed over time, but it hasn't changed that much!

[BleedingClaret]

Yes, that night on the Brentford terraces was great - I started to get excited as I approached the ground, knowing that it was "all standing." Just like the early 70s on the Longside.

UTC

yes great night, a pub on every corner of the ground too!

[Paul Waine]

yes great night, a pub on every corner of the ground too!

nearest ground to where I live - I was home in under 20 minutes.

[gandhisflipflop]

Hi gff, I support Alice's proposal for a Burnley FC LGBTQ+ supporters group. Many of the "hostile" statements on this thread demonstrate why a LBGTQ+ supporters group is a great idea. When will the group have fulfilled its purpose? When will equality exist? I guess when we are all members of the LGBQT+ group, perhaps when the "+" includes all those who don't currently feel that they would qualify as a member of the group.

You describe taking "a gay Ipswich supporter" to a game. So, there were no homophobic chants at that game? There were no conversations "with the lads" that might make your Ipswich friend feel uncomfortable? Nothing where he needed to pretend to be something he wasn't?

UTC

Hi paul. There wasn't any homophobic slurs at all at the game and he went off very happy with the day. No conversations felt uncomfortable at all because we were all there for the football. Some people look for things that are not there.

[Sidney1st]

Some people look for things that are not there.

This is true to a degree but there are also some people who can't see or hear things because they don't want too or aren't interested.

[AliceDevine]

This is true to a degree but there are also some people who can't see or hear things because they don't want too or aren't interested.

Or because they don't affect them directly.

[Ightenclaret]

As the original post was a request for data with a view to conducting preliminary research, it should be remembered that in order to sample a population with the aim of eliminating bias, it is important that the sampling be carried out randomly in order to get a more accurate data set.
Whilst I appreciate Alice is not intending to publish in The Lancet, it may explain the discrepancy between the refreshing acceptance of most posters on this thread and the prejudice that may be experienced everyday by minorities on the terraces.

[Rileybobs]

I have been going on the Turf for 20 odd years and I can honestly say I don't recollect ever hearing a homophobic comment. Granted, my season ticket has been in the JMU since that stand opened and I can imagine this might be different in more vociferous areas of the ground, however I also can't recall any on the many away games that I've attended. And by way of comparison I have heard racist comments on numerous occasions at both home and away games.

That's not to say there's not an issue with homophobia, as there clearly is. But is homophobia more of a problem at Turf Moor than it is anywhere else? Because if the answer is no then this is more of a general issue with civilization than football fans.

If you want to set up a LGBTQ supporters club then fill your boots, it honestly doesn't affect me either way. I'm just voicing my opinion that I don't see what it hopes to achieve. There are legitimate concerns that this could cause further division when in reality we have come a long way in a relatively short period of time in stamping homophobia out in this country. And comparisons with disabled supporters clubs and regional supporters clubs are clearly ridiculous.

[Blackrod]

This is true to a degree but there are also some people who can't see or hear things because they don't want too or aren't interested.

Do people really go to the football to discuss sexuality or just to watch the football. I think it's the latter. It doesn't matter who is sat next to you which is the great think about going to a match. If you start to make divisions it doesnt help. This all smacks of look at me look at me I'm different and everyone will accept this when there is probably no issue in the first place. This is what gets some people's backs up. I think Turf Moor is quite a friendly accommodating place generally I don't want a sterile segmented ground.

[Blackrod]

It is right that the club mention in programmes etc that racist language or language that incites hatred is not used. I think if they start endorsing individual groups it will be making a rod for its own back. As mentioned above it is a wider issue not related exclusively to football. 100% tolerance anywhere probably won't be achieved in any of our lifetimes.

[martin_p]

Do people really go to the football to discuss sexuality or just to watch the football. I think it's the latter. It doesn't matter who is sat next to you which is the great think about going to a match. If you start to make divisions it doesnt help. This all smacks of look at me look at me I'm different and everyone will accept this when there is probably no issue in the first place. This is what gets some people's backs up. I think Turf Moor is quite a friendly accommodating place generally I don't want a sterile segmented ground.

And why do you think an LGBTQ supporters club involves either segmenting the ground or discussing sexuality at the football?

[ClaretTony]

My point being that the issue is no more intensified at a football match than it would be at the cinema or the local ice-skating rink. Would there be a requirement for a LGBTQ Cinema 'go-ers' club?

I know we discussed the issue previously with the homophobic abuse at Chelsea but what happened there I don't think, for one minute, you'd experience at a cinema or ice rink.

I am now aware that a Burnley supporter was identified on this matter and that information passed on to our club. I wasn't involved in that process, it wasn't something I witnessed, but am aware that the person identified is someone who posts on here occasionally and had travelled to that game with one of the supporters clubs.

So undoubtedly more intensified.

[Rileybobs]

I know we discussed the issue previously with the homophobic abuse at Chelsea but what happened there I don't think, for one minute, you'd experience at a cinema or ice rink.

I am now aware that a Burnley supporter was identified on this matter and that information passed on to our club. I wasn't involved in that process, it wasn't something I witnessed, but am aware that the person identified is someone who posts on here occasionally and had travelled to that game with one of the supporters clubs.

So undoubtedly more intensified.

Was this the 'Chelsea rent boy' chanting or something else?

[Sidney1st]

Do people really go to the football to discuss sexuality or just to watch the football. I think it's the latter. It doesn't matter who is sat next to you which is the great think about going to a match. If you start to make divisions it doesnt help. This all smacks of look at me look at me I'm different and everyone will accept this when there is probably no issue in the first place. This is what gets some people's backs up. I think Turf Moor is quite a friendly accommodating place generally I don't want a sterile segmented ground.

Personally I attend to watch a game and I take my kids along too.

I remember being at the Bolton away game in our first PL season and hearing racial abuse from our own fans.
I've also heard people shout poof etc from JMU which is where I sit.

[ClaretTony]

Was this the 'Chelsea rent boy' chanting or something else?

I believe so. I didn't witness it myself so can't confirm that but the person was identified by other Burnley fans via the Chelsea fanpic.

I remember being at the Bolton away game in our first PL season and hearing racial abuse from our own fans.

The worst example of that I can recall was at Bradford City in September 2001. It was absolutely shameful.

[AliceDevine]

And why do you think an LGBTQ supporters club involves either segmenting the ground or discussing sexuality at the football?

I think there is a mistaken view that people who are gay behave like people who are vegan.

Oh wait.. haven't I told you guys yet that I am a vegan? (actually I'm not, I was, but no longer)

[Sidney1st]

I think there is a mistaken view that people who are gay behave like people who are vegan.

Oh wait.. haven't I told you guys yet that I am a vegan? (actually I'm not, I was, but no longer)

Insert joke about liking meat too much here.

[Rileybobs]

Insert joke about liking meat too much here.

Homophobe.

[Sidney1st]

Homophobe.

Barking up the wrong tree there sunshine.

[BleedingClaret]

nearest ground to where I live - I was home in under 20 minutes.

If the pubs were still open that's unacceptable behavior

[AliceDevine]

Insert joke about liking meat too much here.

I almost did... but I thought I would leave the door open for someone else... I am rather partial to sausage

[ClaretEngineer]

Insert joke about liking meat too much here.

You can never like too much meat. Oooerrr. Beef curtains or sausage. Fill yer boots