May's Speech

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:08 pm

BennyD wrote:Wow! I seem to have stirred up all the sleeping Trotskis, just waiting for their turn in the sun. Socialism/Communism doesn't work; it never has and never will. As far as I am aware, there are no truely communist countries still operating, because they have realised communism just doesn't work. However, Corbyn, McDonell etc still believe in it and are trying to drag us back to the dark ages. With a lack of a suitable alternative we are, happily, stuck with Capitalism

Capitalism works just as well as Communism. And by that i mean it doesn't.

The problem you have is that you don't seem to understand that no one is saying we should ditch capitalism. Partly because we aren't purely capitalist, but mostly because most people who are less helplessly partisan than you understand that the only way capitalism or socialism can work is if they are mixed together. Too much capitalism in the mix and we have corporations enslaving the people and buying control of the government. Too much socialism and we have stiffled innovation and an unproductive workforce.

You're not helping anyone understand anything when you call Corbyn a communist, all you do is demonstrate your own lack of understanding and how unattached you are to the idea of reasonable discourse. Corbyn believes in slightly more socialism mixed with his capitalism than I do, and i believe in slightly more socialism in my capitalism than you do. That doesn't make either of us a communist, certainly no more than you believing in slightly more capitalism makes you a Nazi.

OffTheBar · Post by **OffTheBar** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:25 am

2 Bee Holed wrote:I am genuinely baffled by this comment!
What are they then? So you don't owe the money?
It doesn't have to be re-paid?
Surely the clue is in the name?
A loan has to be re-paid doesn't it?

The only way it differs from a bank loan is that;
a/. You don't have to start re-payments until you are earning £21,000 +
b/. Repayments are taken directly by your employer from your salary.
c/. The repayments stop after 30 years.
d/. Your house cannot be re-possessed.
e/.The interest rate is not fixed either like a normal loan.
The interest rate is RPI + 3% (i.e. 6.1% currently) and that interest accrues even after your first year of studying.

Apart from that they are the same as any other loan.

So please explain why it isn't a debt.
How much did you pay for your education?

Quod erat demonstrandum

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:35 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Capitalism works just as well as Communism. And by that i mean it doesn't.

The problem you have is that you don't seem to understand that no one is saying we should ditch capitalism. Partly because we aren't purely capitalist, but mostly because most people who are less helplessly partisan than you understand that the only way capitalism or socialism can work is if they are mixed together. Too much capitalism in the mix and we have corporations enslaving the people and buying control of the government. Too much socialism and we have stiffled innovation and an unproductive workforce.

You're not helping anyone understand anything when you call Corbyn a communist, all you do is demonstrate your own lack of understanding and how unattached you are to the idea of reasonable discourse. Corbyn believes in slightly more socialism mixed with his capitalism than I do, and i believe in slightly more socialism in my capitalism than you do. That doesn't make either of us a communist, certainly no more than you believing in slightly more capitalism makes you a Nazi.

You are obviously beguiled by Corbyn, because his acolytes are straining at the leash to get into power; Unison and their communist leaders are just waiting to get back the powers they lost to Maggie and her crew. Train driver strikes, postal strikes over Christmas are the hallmarks of the rabid left. Whilst I agree that a mix would be more beneficial to more people, there just isn't the political will to go there so we are stuck with one extreme or the other. With that in mind, I would go for Capitalism over Communism any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:47 am

BennyD wrote:You are obviously beguiled by Corbyn, because his acolytes are straining at the leash to get into power; Unison and their communist leaders are just waiting to get back the powers they lost to Maggie and her crew. Train driver strikes, postal strikes over Christmas are the hallmarks of the rabid left. Whilst I agree that a mix would be more beneficial to more people, there just isn't the political will to go there so we are stuck with one extreme or the other. With that in mind, I would go for Capitalism over Communism any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

When you say you would prefer one over the other in a choice between Capitalism and Communism all you're doing is choosing your oppressor, becuse they are two sides of the same coin and will always eventually lead to your enslavement. One by a government, the other by a corporation. In neither system are you close to being free.

And good luck finding evidence that i've been beguiled by Corbyn. I'm not his biggest fan. I just don't think i need to say that when i defend him against unfair or false accusations on here. I voted Labour because i supported their policies more than any other party, except the Greens. I see people lying or getting their policies wrong on here all the time so i'll explain how they're wrong or lying. That doesn't mean i'm beguiled, that just means i'm not a moron who will let people lie about the reasons i'm voting a certain way.

You've been conditioned into thinking that anything that is more left-wing than New Labour is extreme but it's not true. Corbyn is more left wing that Labour has been in over two decades but that doesn't make him a Communist. Nothing about Labour's polices make them a communist party and the longer you spread that bullshit the longer people like me are going to sneer at you as just another shít stain to avoid on the path to an intelligent conversation.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:43 am

I'm starting to want corbyn to get in. It will do these pseudo communists who support him a bit of good to live in an economy of ruin, remind the younger generation what happens when you bring in a hard left government. It it takes pain for then to realise that, so be it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:16 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I'm starting to want corbyn to get in. It will do these pseudo communists who support him a bit of good to live in an economy of ruin, remind the younger generation what happens when you bring in a hard left government. It it takes pain for then to realise that, so be it.

9 year olds can't vote.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:20 am

Ah so that's why you voted Brexit.
Makes sense now.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:23 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I'm starting to want corbyn to get in. It will do these pseudo communists who support him a bit of good to live in an economy of ruin, remind the younger generation what happens when you bring in a hard left government. It it takes pain for then to realise that, so be it.

Let's face it, we don't need Corbyn for that. That storm is already on it's way thanks to the desperately incompetent Tory government.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:31 am

People like Moffitt like to point out that in the past some left-wing governments have presided over bad economies and so we should elect a left-wing government. It's almost as if they forget the global economic disaster of 2008 which was caused by right-wing policies. It must be nice having a memory that Doesn't record new memories after September 2008.

So the economy crashed because of more capitalism and was rescued by government assistance aka socialism. But apparently what we need is more capitalism again because 40 years ago, under a leftie government the economy wasn't quite as bad as it was post 2008.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:31 am

It's still pretty funny to see people who fully support the chaos and economic madness of Brexit, trying to warn people against voting for Jeremy Corbyn in case he bring chaos and economic madness to the country.

Their credibility is shot on those issues, but they don't seem to realise it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:34 am

JohnMcGreal wrote:It's still pretty funny to see people who fully support the chaos and economic madness of Brexit, trying to warn people against voting for Jeremy Corbyn in case he bring chaos and economic madness to the country.

Their credibility is shot on those issues, but they don't seem to realise it.

That would require self-awareness.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:39 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Ah so that's why you voted Brexit.
Makes sense now.

Sorta of, but for different reasons.

I was totally aware it could damage the economy but was willing to do so in order to prevent Merkels flood of third world "refugees" coming anywhere near our shores, and to ensure we were independent of anything of its like happening again. Plus it was a good chance to shove two fingers up at the Liberal elite, metropolitan briefcase wankers am and politicians which could also result in a decrease in net migration. Seemed a good shout to me. Still no regrets, even if we end up with a watered down Brexit I'm not particularly arsed, the message was strong enough as to ensure our politicians never get any funny ideas about doing a Merkel or bowing to EU demands about cleaning her mess.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:44 am

So when are all the countries near our borders going to stop taking in "refugees" thanks to our referendum result? It must be any day now.

And i hear "**** liberals" is a great reason to stab yourself in the dick.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:44 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:So when are all the countries near our borders going to stop taking in "refugees" thanks to our referendum result? It must be any day now.

And i hear "**** liberals" is a great reason to stab yourself in the dick.

Dont give a flying what they do, so long as we don't do it.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:47 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Dont give a flying what they do, so long as we don't do it.

But you said you voted for Brexit to make sure they don't come anywhere near our shores. Leaving the EU doesn't alter that unless those neighbouring countries stop accepting them. Soooo... You voted Leave based on something that isn't affected by the referendum. Good job. But anyway, fck libruls right? *stabs self in face*

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:52 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:But you said you voted for Brexit to make sure they don't come anywhere near our shores. Leaving the EU doesn't alter that unless those neighbouring countries stop accepting them. Soooo... You voted Leave based on something that isn't affected by the referendum. Good job.

We can't control what others do, only what we do. If they want to flood their counties with the third world then they are free to do so. I don't want us to play any part in it so I used my vote to make a political statement, sometimes you have to be prepared to take some pain to make your voice heard. Millions of people agreed with me. We didn't particularly like the EU, bit if not for the refugee crisis, we would still be remaining a member of the EU, of that I have no doubt whatsoever

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:57 am

So you were uniformed. That's what you're admitting to because EU doesn't/didn't decide our refugee policy. So you're admitting to making a decision to vote Leave based on the false belief that it would affect our refugee policy. Well done. You got played.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:11 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:So you were uniformed. That's what you're admitting to because EU doesn't/didn't decide our refugee policy. So you're admitting to making a decision to vote Leave based on the false belief that it would affect our refugee policy. Well done. You got played.

They can pressure us like they do with Poland, Hungary and others. I also strongly believe that if the public didn't so firmly come out in rejection of it in the referendum, our wimpy government would have toed the line and we would also be seeing hundreds of thousands of low quality immigration around now.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:11 am

I genuinley think you were better informed about the EU before the referendum CM.

I don't get it.

You and BennyD clearly are not thick, but jesus, its the arguments of either a child or someone who reads a history book of the 1970s and somethinks that the same as today.

I don't like Corbyn. I don't like some of his policies and I don't trust some of his supporters. But at least his plan appears to aim at actually helping people and where we are at the moment, we need that.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:21 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:They can pressure us like they do with Poland, Hungary and others. I also strongly believe that if the public didn't so firmly come out in rejection of it in the referendum, our wimpy government would have toed the line and we would also be seeing hundreds of thousands of low quality immigration around now.

You think they will have less ability to pressure us once we're out of the EU? What could they possibly do to pressure us as a member of the EU that they can't do once we're out?
Bear in mind that once we're out we don't get to veto any laws the EU pass that targets selfish, insular, scummy little countries that refuse to help people not die.

But i'd like an answer. I don't want this to be like one of those other questions i ask that you can't answer therefore you ignore it. What pressure can they exert on the UK as an EU member that they can't exert once we leave?

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:42 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:You think they will have less ability to pressure us once we're out of the EU? What could they possibly do to pressure us as a member of the EU that they can't do once we're out?
Bear in mind that once we're out we don't get to veto any laws the EU pass that targets selfish, insular, scummy little countries that refuse to help people not die.

But i'd like an answer. I don't want this to be like one of those other questions i ask that you can't answer therefore you ignore it. What pressure can they exert on the UK as an EU member that they can't exert once we leave?

Mate, I work 12 hour days. If I don't answer it's not because I can't, it's because I'm shattered or busy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:45 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Mate, I work 12 hour days. If I don't answer it's not because I can't, it's because I'm shattered or busy.

Thats understandable. But you just posted a reply to a post containing a question to explain that sometimes you don't have time to answer a question, instead of answering my question.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:16 am

Muffit's gone a bit quiet on this one, hasn't he ?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:50 am

And also bear in mind that we could control EU migration if we wanted to, but its just too expensive for a country and a government who are cutting everything.

And we lose our veto when we leave.

I just bloody hope by then that someone has found a way to harness all the hot air caused by all the flag waving and blue passport thumping, or it will have been a colossal waste of time, money and our country.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 am

This thread on the eurozone economy and its benefits to the workers is well worth a read

https://twitter.com/markpalexander/stat ... 2391200773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:55 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Mate, I work 12 hour days. .

Rather sounds as though having some protection over your terms and conditions of / at work from the EU might help. Good luck once we're out.
Like others on here, I am not a fan of Corbyn, (I wish there was an alternative), but it sounds like his policies might help people like you.
Who's most likely to make your life better in our "brave new world" outside the EU, Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Davis, IDS or Corbyn?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:00 am

Wow. Look at all those countries with growing wages. They must have almost no immigrants.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:33 am

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:16 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When you say you would prefer one over the other in a choice between Capitalism and Communism all you're doing is choosing your oppressor, becuse they are two sides of the same coin and will always eventually lead to your enslavement. One by a government, the other by a corporation. In neither system are you close to being free.

And good luck finding evidence that i've been beguiled by Corbyn. I'm not his biggest fan. I just don't think i need to say that when i defend him against unfair or false accusations on here. I voted Labour because i supported their policies more than any other party, except the Greens. I see people lying or getting their policies wrong on here all the time so i'll explain how they're wrong or lying. That doesn't mean i'm beguiled, that just means i'm not a moron who will let people lie about the reasons i'm voting a certain way.

You've been conditioned into thinking that anything that is more left-wing than New Labour is extreme but it's not true. Corbyn is more left wing that Labour has been in over two decades but that doesn't make him a Communist. Nothing about Labour's polices make them a communist party and the longer you spread that bullshit the longer people like me are going to sneer at you as just another shít stain to avoid on the path to an intelligent conversation.

'Free' from what? As long as I have a comfortable lifestyle, which I have, then I'm as 'free' as I want to be. It's just that with Socialism they tax and spend a lot more than Capitalists and that erodes my lifestyle. I too can see which party to vote for and for my own reasons; obviously they don't tally with yours but that doesn't mean either of us is wrong in our choice. FWIW, I voted Tory and Brexit, like the majority, so I seem to have a better grasp of the 'norm' than you do and to disparage me as part of the 'unthinking class' is both crass and ignorant of my personal reasons for doing so. Also, Labour lied like cheap Changi watches to try and get into power, so perhaps you are one of the morons you so despise. Also, I said Corbyn's acolytes are the Communists who are using him to as a vehicle to get into power so sneer all you want because that, along with personal insults, is what the left tend to do to those that don't agree with them. I guess I'll walk round you on the path to an intelligent conversation.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:35 pm

BennyD wrote:'Free' from what? As long as I have a comfortable lifestyle, which I have, then I'm as 'free' as I want to be. It's just that with Socialism they tax and spend a lot more than Capitalists and that erodes my lifestyle. I too can see which party to vote for and for my own reasons; obviously they don't tally with yours but that doesn't mean either of us is wrong in our choice. FWIW, I voted Tory and Brexit, like the majority, so I seem to have a better grasp of the 'norm' than you do and to disparage me as part of the 'unthinking class' is both crass and ignorant of my personal reasons for doing so. Also, Labour lied like cheap Changi watches to try and get into power, so perhaps you are one of the morons you so despise. Also, I said Corbyn's acolytes are the Communists who are using him to as a vehicle to get into power so sneer all you want because that, along with personal insults, is what the left tend to do to those that don't agree with them. I guess I'll walk round you on the path to an intelligent conversation.

Your lifestyle wouldn't exist without socialism tempering your beloved capitalism. You'd be forced to have private healthcare (or none at all) and so would anyone you love. It would be almost prohibitively expensive because you either have it or die/suffer. Your wages would be lower as would your families, and i do mean all of your family because your kids would be working too because schooling would cost you a fortune. Your water would be dodgy because the companies who owned it under a capitalist society would rather you spend money buying bottled water instead from companies they also own. Your media would be monopolised so the information you receive would be filtered even more than it is now to keep you ignorant of any facts that would endanger the profit models of the corporations. Your food would make you sick but don't worry, it'll be cheap as **** and that fact will excuse the lack of quality control. It wn't be a coincidence that the food companies making you sick will also be stake holders in the health insurance companies that want to bleed your finances dry. Getting to and from work will be expensive because it's a neccessity in a world without socialism to make sure you can feed yourself without a job, so it's OK for the transports companies (assuming there's more than one) to price gouge. So you either pay it, or buy a car, or a bike, or walk.

You need socialism and yet you hate socialism. You hate it because you haven't thought about it and that is why i disparage you as part of the unthinking class. Start applying some thought to the bullshit you're about to say then maybe you'll stop posting such stupid ****. And then thinking people will treat you with some kind of respect.

Also...
What majority of people voted Tory?
What lies are you referring to?

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:30 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:When you say you would prefer one over the other in a choice between Capitalism and Communism all you're doing is choosing your oppressor, becuse they are two sides of the same coin and will always eventually lead to your enslavement. One by a government, the other by a corporation. In neither system are you close to being free.

And good luck finding evidence that i've been beguiled by Corbyn. I'm not his biggest fan. I just don't think i need to say that when i defend him against unfair or false accusations on here. I voted Labour because i supported their policies more than any other party, except the Greens. I see people lying or getting their policies wrong on here all the time so i'll explain how they're wrong or lying. That doesn't mean i'm beguiled, that just means i'm not a moron who will let people lie about the reasons i'm voting a certain way.

You've been conditioned into thinking that anything that is more left-wing than New Labour is extreme but it's not true. Corbyn is more left wing that Labour has been in over two decades but that doesn't make him a Communist. Nothing about Labour's polices make them a communist party and the longer you spread that bullshit the longer people like me are going to sneer at you as just another shít stain to avoid on the path to an intelligent conversation.

Excellent post IT .... it reads very moderately to me and I have voted for both main parties in my life.

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Your lifestyle wouldn't exist without socialism tempering your beloved capitalism. You'd be forced to have private healthcare (or none at all) and so would anyone you love. It would be almost prohibitively expensive because you either have it or die/suffer.

A bit like America really.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:45 pm

BennyD wrote:'I too can see which party to vote for and for my own reasons; obviously they don't tally with yours but that doesn't mean either of us is wrong in our choice. FWIW, I voted Tory and Brexit, like the majority, .

By all means defend your position, but don't just make stuff up that is so easily checked and disproved, it rather destroys your credibility.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:55 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote: I don't like Corbyn. I don't like some of his policies and I don't trust some of his supporters. But at least his plan appears to aim at actually helping people and where we are at the moment, we need that.

Aye, Corbyn is a wrong 'un. And he's got some horrible types around him.

Which is a shame, because I'm ready to dabble with a little socialism myself. But I just don't want him and the momentum freaks at the helm if it happens.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:57 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:By all means defend your position, but don't just make stuff up that is so easily checked and disproved, it rather destroys your credibility.

What stuff did I make up?

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:00 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Your lifestyle wouldn't exist without socialism tempering your beloved capitalism. You'd be forced to have private healthcare (or none at all) and so would anyone you love. It would be almost prohibitively expensive because you either have it or die/suffer. Your wages would be lower as would your families, and i do mean all of your family because your kids would be working too because schooling would cost you a fortune. Your water would be dodgy because the companies who owned it under a capitalist society would rather you spend money buying bottled water instead from companies they also own. Your media would be monopolised so the information you receive would be filtered even more than it is now to keep you ignorant of any facts that would endanger the profit models of the corporations. Your food would make you sick but don't worry, it'll be cheap as **** and that fact will excuse the lack of quality control. It wn't be a coincidence that the food companies making you sick will also be stake holders in the health insurance companies that want to bleed your finances dry. Getting to and from work will be expensive because it's a neccessity in a world without socialism to make sure you can feed yourself without a job, so it's OK for the transports companies (assuming there's more than one) to price gouge. So you either pay it, or buy a car, or a bike, or walk.

You need socialism and yet you hate socialism. You hate it because you haven't thought about it and that is why i disparage you as part of the unthinking class. Start applying some thought to the bullshit you're about to say then maybe you'll stop posting such stupid ****. And then thinking people will treat you with some kind of respect.

Also...
What majority of people voted Tory?
What lies are you referring to?

1) I voted for the party that took the most votes and are presently in power.
2) Tuition fees.

Just wondering, how many Socialist paradises are there left around the world at present? Who are they?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:05 pm

BennyD wrote:What stuff did I make up?

Maybe it was a genuine mistake.
You said that the majority voted Tory, which is not true which ever way you try to look at it.

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:10 pm

I voted for the party that has the majority of seats. However, I appreciate they haven't got more seats than all the other parties combined, but they are not far off.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:11 pm

BennyD wrote:By majority I meant that more voted Tory than for any other party, not every other party combined.

So it was a genuine mistake, because that isn't a majority. (Hence we have a minority government propped up by the DUP).

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:14 pm

Apologies ND, you took my original quote before I tried to make it clearer.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:15 pm

If it be your will wrote:It's not a bad plan. Vote Corbyn in and watch it all unfold. It seems you consider you have absolutely eff all to lose anymore anyway, and anything's better than viscerally hating everyone and everything all day, to no effect.

It's worth remembering, though, that Corbyn had absolutely no part to play in the circumstances in which you now live. That was down to the Conservatives and New Labour between them.

There is some truth in that but it was also down to the so called independant central bankers, i.e. Mark Carney, and their policy of QE and low interest rates. It was also down to the world economy overall (Brown called it a global crisis, after all).

I would say that Corbyn needs to get in to educate everyone what happens, I am no fan of the Tories but I am a fan of free markets and capitalist democracies. I struggle to see how those things can thrive in the UK without Corbyn showing people the alternative first. Ideally though I would wait until we are fully out of the EU, the two things aren’t related but one would prejudice the other.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:19 pm

One thing that might make Corbynomics work is having a strong economy before he starts fiddling with it.

Which is why I find his desire to leave the EU quite bizarre, though they if they keep swinging the way they are they will at least prioritise staying in the single market and the customs union.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:34 pm

BennyD wrote:1) I voted for the party that took the most votes and are presently in power.
2) Tuition fees.

What lie did they tell about tuition fees?

Just wondering, how many Socialist paradises are there left around the world at present? Who are they?

You've taken onboard nothing, have you? There are exactly as many Socialist paradises in the world as there are Capitalist ones. Why are you treating them as binary when you should know better?

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:39 pm

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:59 pm

Not sure about that ITBYW, both have done marvellous jobs of confusing the issue so they can't be tied down to a definite plan, to the frustration and anger of everyone.

Labour are at least trying to clarify it (whilst frantically polling their support to see just how much immigration they can stand I assume) while the Tories continue to hope that the 10% of the country who are UKIP (or worse) stay with them to fulfill Brexit.

The fact the 90% of the country don't vote UKIP appears to have passed them by, until very, very, very recently!

JegunClaret · Post by **JegunClaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:54 pm

Our future is in our hands. Why do we have to rely on other countries? We started the Industrial Revolution and created a prosperous nation. Why can we not do this again? We have brilliant people who do not have to be ruled by EU regulations. The future is ours and it is up to us to make it happen. Forget all negativity!

JegunClaret · Post by **JegunClaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Lancaster and Imploding Turtle.
I appreciate all your comments.
Will you be providing all the money to pay for your beliefs?
You will soon be skint!!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:07 pm

JegunClaret wrote:Our future is in our hands. Why do we have to rely on other countries? We started the Industrial Revolution and created a prosperous nation. Why can we not do this again? We have brilliant people who do not have to be ruled by EU regulations. The future is ours and it is up to us to make it happen. Forget all negativity!

Forget all negativity. Only talk positively. Yeah, because that will make things better.

By the way, those liberals your lot love to hate tried to get a green revolution started in this country that could have meant we were world leaders in renewable tech. Guess which side of the EU referendum the anti-science, anti-expert, anti-fact lot voted.

JegunClaret · Post by **JegunClaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:13 pm

Hells bells, I do not know what you are on about? It is early to be on the sauce, although it is Friday. Cheers!!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:22 pm

Jegun, with the greatest respect in the world.

Thats just words, it means nothing

We are a great country, but we are not such a great country that we can magically step back in time (and crucially, drag all the worlds countries back) and change things.

We are what we are now, and economically this damages us, and potentially damages us a lot.

Its not wrong to be concerned when all we get from the people in charge are variations of what you've posted? I want to see cold, hard facts that this won't damage us.

The only ones I keep seeing are ones that prove exactly the opposite.

I'm sorry, but that is the reality.