When a club moves stadium is it still the same club?

[Sausage]

In response to the OP, I think the identity of a club is created by a number of factors:

• - History
  - Location (and length of time played at the venue)
  - Ownership
  - Expectation
  - Perception

No one factor is key but moving stadium and location (e.g. Bolton to Horwich) are huge factors in obliterating the identity of a club. Expectation and ownership are also often inextricably linked. A move to a new stadium is often the result of a change of ownership which, in turn, fuels an expectation of success. It worked for a while at Bolton and Reading. It didn’t work for Coventry and they are unrecognisable as a club from what they were 20 years ago.

In terms of perception, I will always think of Bolton as a crappy third division club with a Normid Superstore at one end of the ground; Reading will always be a nothing club playing at a decrepit Elm Park; Hull City likewise. But younger fans will never have known anything other than such clubs playing in 25,000 purpose-built stadia.

It might only be a patch of grass, but the history of the playing field at Turf Moor is everything. It’s the one constant; while everything around it changes, you can take comfort in the fact some of the finest (and worst, in our case) players in the world have stood on the very same spot.

So while a club that has moved stadium might technically be the same club, in terms of its heart and soul it’s a very different entity. Just my opinion, though.

[scouseclaret]

Our ground's a mess really when you look at it. We built two new stands in the 90s that don't even fit together, one is built nowhere near where it should have been built. The cricket field stand is way over towards the Bob Lord side and I wouldn't want to sit in the first few seats at that end.

I suppose that's what happens when you have no plan and your ground is built piecemeal over a period of time, very similar to Maine Road in that respect.

I much prefer grounds that evolve over time rather than “planned”. Much more character than identikit new stadiums.

For all the Turf’s shortcomings, I really couldn’t imagine watching Burnley anywhere else.

[ClaretTony]

I much prefer grounds that evolve over time rather than “planned”. Much more character than identikit new stadiums.

For all the Turf’s shortcomings, I really couldn’t imagine watching Burnley anywhere else.

I wouldn't want us to move, but the positioning of the two stands behind the goals leaves much to be desired.

[Clarinetclaret]

I wouldn't want to move but the stadium is in desperate need of modernisation.

[Sausage]

CT - what's the real reason behind the two 'new' stands being misaligned? Obviously either the JH or Jimmy Mac was built in the wrong position but for some reason I thought the Jimmy Mac had been shifted due to the cost of relocating the Police Control Box.

[Cocker Claret]

Uses other than a matchday really, No restaurants, bars, hotel, casino, exhibition space, onsite parking, our matchday hospitality is limited compared to other clubs, no real room for large corporate events or concerts, or other sporting events like boxing etc. We don’t do naming rights.

Clubs with purpose build stadiums can accommodate all this and reap from the investment

Bolton had/have all this and look at the mess their in now.

[Cocker Claret]

Not for a restaurant, not for a casino, not for bars, not for a hotel.

There's a reason Burnley doesn't have a single Nandos/Chiquito/Frankie & Benny's/whatever type chain restaurant. The demand just isn't there. It's a tiny town.

Casino: ditto

Bars? There's a town centre with quite a few in and most of them are dying on their feet.

Hotel? There's a Premier Inn, a Travelodge and a Holiday Inn, all virtually empty. Oaks is dead, Keirby's closed.

There's no market for any of that stuff in Burnley. It's a backwater. It's Burnley, not Barcelona.

The nearest town to where i live is Burton on Trent,and it has Nando's and a Frankie and Benny's and Burton is smaller than Burnley.

[ClaretTony]

CT - what's the real reason behind the two 'new' stands being misaligned? Obviously either the JH or Jimmy Mac was built in the wrong position but for some reason I thought the Jimmy Mac had been shifted due to the cost of relocating the Police Control Box.

Never an answer given but if you stand at the cricket field end you can see just ho w misaligned the Jimmy Mac is. The Longside is the one in the correct position.

[tim_noone]

The nearest town to where i live is Burton on Trent,and it has Nando's and a Frankie and Benny's and Burton is smaller than Burnley.

Bene and black pudding wouldn't catch on I' Burton though.

[Volvoclaret]

Burnley population 73,000
Bury population 78,000
Bury kept its old outside market area which attracts 1000s of shoppers into the town. Our enlightened bunch of Labour Councillors smashed the heart out of our town.

[jrgbfc]

I agree if I were a Bolton or West Ham fan it would break my heart having to go to those monstrosities every home game. Upton Park was a great ground, full of character in a traditional area surrounded by lots of pubs. Feel sorry for the true fans who have been shafted big time by Gold and Sullivan.

[Cocker Claret]

Bene and black pudding wouldn't catch on I' Burton though.

They do black pudding in the canteen at work, fried slices though, not boiled like up North.

[Dazzler]

I reckon many residents living in the midst of Turf Moor probably wish the club would sod off and build a stadium somewhere else.

I probably should have wrote " I know of" instead of "I reckon" as I was born & bred a 'stone throw' from the turf and proud of that fact,and my sister and many friends still live in the vicinity of the Stadium.

[Silkyskills1]

Burnley population 73,000
Bury population 78,000
Bury kept its old outside market area which attracts 1000s of shoppers into the town. Our enlightened bunch of Labour Councillors smashed the heart out of our town.

Met. Borough of Bury approx 200,000.

[aclaretinstevenage]

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Couldn't agree with the OP more. I like walking down a terraced street and feeling a buzz around a community on the way to the ground. It's magical. Going to Reading or Bolton offers none of that and I could quickly get out of the habit if I supported clubs like that.

Walking down these terraced streets doesn't give me any kind of buzz though Rod. A new stadium needed if ever there was one

[Chester Perry]

By the way everybody Turf Moor is a ground - not a Stadium whatever the club would have you believe

[ŽižkovClaret]

Though having an old fashioned, historical stadium in the hub of the community is quite unique in top flight football, it’s holding us back commercially compared to our competition.

Newcastle manage

Let's face it, if the club wanted to, they could buy up the properties over Harry Potts way and build a ginormous stand with corp facilities aplenty to replace the Bob Lord and CFS, however they would never fill it and we'd end up like Bradford with a stadium too big for us

[Claretforever]

I’m not sure anybody seriously expects us to ever increase capacity by more than 2-3,000, even if we remain a regular top tier side. Newer stands with better facilities would be great though, even if we were at least planning for them right now. Other clubs seem to WANT to update their facilities, and the way their ground looks. We definitely put ground facilities to the back of the priority list. The disabled bays happening soon are long overdue, and only happening because it’s a requirement.

If I was a director I’d be putting £6-7m per season aside for a £30-35m revamp plan. £6-7m is tiny whilst we’re in the Prem, and would give us a great looking ground, which would see us right for the next 20-30 years.

Get a bit more ambitious and we’d knock those two monstrosities down....and I’m not talking about the Bob Lord or Cricket Field either!

[Paul Waine]

The new Kippax wasn't cheap; at £16m it was 4 times their annual turnover, and there were plans to replicate it around the ground. If they hadn;t have gone down they'd have proceeded with it.

The move to their council house was because they were getting a deal which was almost too good to be true. They were getting a £112m stadium, built by lottery grants and the council, and the council then chipped in another £20m to convert it for football.

They pay £3m a year, equivalent to what they'll pay their 8th choice left back or something.

So, are you saying West Ham should thank Man City for their deal for the London Stadium? And, taxpayers should take the opposite view?

[Claretforever]

The Kippax was completed in 1995, and City’s turnover was £9m, so not 4x the turnover. It put some into perspective our fans wanting improvements which might cost £20m for a stand when we are turning over £130m.

I’ve always wondered what they hoped to achieve with having a roof on it?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Funny that because Bury is a smaller town than Burnley and nearer Manchester but it has all that and gets very busy.

Thats because its an extension of manchester and a true manchester commuter town.

[cricketfieldclarets]

In response to the OP, I think the identity of a club is created by a number of factors:

• - History
  - Location (and length of time played at the venue)
  - Ownership
  - Expectation
  - Perception

No one factor is key but moving stadium and location (e.g. Bolton to Horwich) are huge factors in obliterating the identity of a club. Expectation and ownership are also often inextricably linked. A move to a new stadium is often the result of a change of ownership which, in turn, fuels an expectation of success. It worked for a while at Bolton and Reading. It didn’t work for Coventry and they are unrecognisable as a club from what they were 20 years ago.

In terms of perception, I will always think of Bolton as a crappy third division club with a Normid Superstore at one end of the ground; Reading will always be a nothing club playing at a decrepit Elm Park; Hull City likewise. But younger fans will never have known anything other than such clubs playing in 25,000 purpose-built stadia.

It might only be a patch of grass, but the history of the playing field at Turf Moor is everything. It’s the one constant; while everything around it changes, you can take comfort in the fact some of the finest (and worst, in our case) players in the world have stood on the very same spot.

So while a club that has moved stadium might technically be the same club, in terms of its heart and soul it’s a very different entity. Just my opinion, though.

Fantastic post.

[cricketfieldclarets]

The nearest town to where i live is Burton on Trent,and it has Nando's and a Frankie and Benny's and Burton is smaller than Burnley.

But there its probably more of a novelty as none for miles.

No need for one in burnley.

[tim_noone]

West ham fans relocated to Essex..leaving their home behind...taking their eye off the ball.squatters claimed it sold it and left em with nothing. It's wimbledon on a much bigger scale,though they are moving back to their spiritual home.the Olympic stadium will never be west hams home.IMO.

[Foshiznik]

Funny that because Bury is a smaller town than Burnley and nearer Manchester but it has all that and gets very busy.

So does my hometown in Wiltshire that has 35,000 habitants.

I think the main reason is there isn’t a great location for these sort of places in Burnley. Everything is spread all over the town and the road planning isn’t the best.

[Clarinetclaret]

Thats because its an extension of manchester and a true manchester commuter town.

But the population of Bury is only 60000 so the point stands. Bury town centre and market is always busy. The reason it's busy is because they have a better town council than us who realise what it takes to attract people. Our market has been ruined and the centre is crap.

[cricketfieldclarets]

West ham fans relocated to Essex..leaving their home behind...taking their eye off the ball.squatters claimed it sold it and left em with nothing. It's wimbledon on a much bigger scale,though they are moving back to their spiritual home.the Olympic stadium will never be west hams home.IMO.

100% correct. 3 miles or 30 its the same as MK