Clitheroe CC Not Guilty

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:43 am

The bit about Mr Robinson’s “admissions” makes great reading.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:51 am

#FTH wrote:Free the Halstead

Of course it does

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:43 am

ZizkovClaret wrote:When is Lowerhouse v Clitheroe next season? Might have to book a flight

Clitheroe v Lowerhouse 9th June

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:44 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:So you where there then?

You should have given evidence.

You’re assuming I didn’t?

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:56 am

#FTH wrote:Clitheroe v Lowerhouse 9th June

Wonder if there might be a precautionary paddy wagon presence? Or maybe it will be played at Accy at 10am midweek as a precaution?

#BubbleGame

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:57 am

A costly affair and that's before the witness protection bill comes haha.
Clitheroe's lawyer is taking credit for the verdict on twitter.

I was very surprised to see Gary Hunt giving evidence as his name crops up a lot when shamatuer deals are made, it won't be good for business.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:01 am

#FTH wrote:Free the Halstead

#PaidTheHalstead

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:04 am

To be fair to Halstead if he is getting paid it could be argued he deserved it.
There's plenty getting paid that don't deserve it.

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:50 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:The bit about Mr Robinson’s “admissions” makes great reading.

It reads like Padiham weren’t happy about their player wanting to leave. It’s a shame it doesn’t report the other side of the story/evidence that in fact it was the player himself who made the first contact expressing his desire to move to Clitheroe (and before you ask yes I was there whrn this happened. Could give you location, date and even approximate time) It also reads like he admitted to making a joke comment in 'banter' as I'm sure many other players have before.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:54 am

“It was just banter”

Is he related to Richard Keys?

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:05 am

“The panel has had great concern about the governance of Clitheroe C C “ says it all really . UTH

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:14 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:“It was just banter”

Is he related to Richard Keys?

So you’ve never admitted to something just to shut people up after they've been relentlessly badgering you?

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:15 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:“The panel has had great concern about the governance of Clitheroe C C “ says it all really . UTH

People in glass houses....

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:16 am

#FTH wrote:It reads like Padiham weren’t happy about their player wanting to leave. It’s a shame it doesn’t report the other side of the story/evidence that in fact it was the player himself who made the first contact expressing his desire to move to Clitheroe (and before you ask yes I was there whrn this happened. Could give you location, date and even approximate time) It also reads like he admitted to making a joke comment in 'banter' as I'm sure many other players have before.

Hahaha Clitheroe were chasing Kurt for about 5 years and our previous WKT keeper before that.

Padiham as a club have had nothing to do with the enquiry.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:20 am

#FTH wrote:People in glass houses....

Explain

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:32 am

Lord Rothbury wrote:Explain

Just don’t believe everything the ‘Lowerhouse Messiah’ tells you.

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:48 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:Hahaha Clitheroe were chasing Kurt for about 5 years and our previous WKT keeper before that.

Padiham as a club have had nothing to do with the enquiry.

Not even to carify the matter of alleged unpaid debts to the club????

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:05 am

What's a great shame to me is that all this has blown up and has indeed caused huge rifts and divisions (not least on here!) just at a time when the Lancs League is going through a massive, dramatic and actually very exciting transformation. It was much needed and overdue and began last year with the 3 new clubs entering. This coming season it will morph even more with numerous additions. The numbers of people actively taking an interest in Lancs League cricket either playing, supporting or in some administrative capacity has over a number of years fallen, but the league IS still one of the most prestigious in the whole country and is still thriving. Loads of people still take great interest and have fierce allegiances and over the next couple of years it will move into a whole new era. This sorry episode is in danger of derailing some of that IF people don't simply accept things, like it or not, put the squabbling behind them and just move on ready for the new season and I say this as a VERY committed member and supporter of a Lancs League club (but not Clitheroe).

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:13 am

#FTH wrote:Just don’t believe everything the ‘Lowerhouse Messiah’ tells you.

You seem pretty certain about this. The league have a complaints procedure. I suggest you lodge this immediately with the evidence to support your findings.

Meanwhile and as has been the norm for the last 10 years with many of our developed players Lowerhouse have just lost another promising youngster, this time to Bradford and Bingley in the Yorkshire Premier League. I wonder what one of his reasons was for leaving?

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:14 am

The panel have found that he didn't say it in banter and he didn't say it as a result of constant badgering......they have found that because he didn't.

They have actually found that he said it, they confirm this more than once, but that he is of such dubious character generally that they can't be sure that he was actually being truthful when he did say it.

Utterly bizarre, but it is what it is.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:18 am

#FTH wrote:Not even to carify the matter of alleged unpaid debts to the club????

Also, there were unapaid debts to the club, he paid them in March 2017, when requested, to allow his move to Clitheroe. This was confirmed by Padiham.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:21 am

#FTH wrote:Not even to carify the matter of alleged unpaid debts to the club????

It's not been mentioned and wasn't in the released papers. That’s the trouble with it taking place in football season ha.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:27 am

Dark Cloud wrote:What's a great shame to me is that all this has blown up and has indeed caused huge rifts and divisions (not least on here!) just at a time when the Lancs League is going through a massive, dramatic and actually very exciting transformation. It was much needed and overdue and began last year with the 3 new clubs entering. This coming season it will morph even more with numerous additions. The numbers of people actively taking an interest in Lancs League cricket either playing, supporting or in some administrative capacity has over a number of years fallen, but the league IS still one of the most prestigious in the whole country and is still thriving. Loads of people still take great interest and have fierce allegiances and over the next couple of years it will move into a whole new era. This sorry episode is in danger of derailing some of that IF people don't simply accept things, like it or not, put the squabbling behind them and just move on ready for the new season and I say this as a VERY committed member and supporter of a Lancs League club (but not Clitheroe).

100% agreed Dark Cloud.

This is what everyone involved at what ever level within this investigation, or within the league in general, wanted/wants.

I'm afraid that this hasn't been helped by Clitheroe's conduct during the process in taking it outside of the tried and trusted complaints process and employing solicitors and barristers. This grew legs way beyond anything that anybody expected or wanted. They decided they weren't happy for the clubs to decide as they do on all other matters of discipline, big or small.

The subsequent reaction to the verdict (which in itself, unfortunately pauses a number of valid questions) by Clitheroe with social media crowing, the #FTH hash tag and the subsequent statement which rather than be conciliatory again goes on the attack has done nothing to soften the mood within the league.

Clitheroe would be best advised to start building bridges with the member clubs, most of whom have been friends and colleagues for 125 years, as opposed to further mixing the pot.

Hopefully we can all move on better for the experience. I fear however it needs all sides to play a part in that and some are already showing signs that they aren't of that mind.

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:34 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:Also, there were unapaid debts to the club, he paid them in March 2017, when requested, to allow his move to Clitheroe. This was confirmed by Padiham.

Indeed. I was mearly pointing out Padiham had been involved. Nothing more.

#FTH · Post by **#FTH** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:17 pm

RocketLawnChair wrote:You seem pretty certain about this. The league have a complaints procedure. I suggest you lodge this immediately with the evidence to support your findings.

Meanwhile and as has been the norm for the last 10 years with many of our developed players Lowerhouse have just lost another promising youngster, this time to Bradford and Bingley in the Yorkshire Premier League. I wonder what one of his reasons was for leaving?

No point complaining according to this thread.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:34 pm

#FTH wrote:No point complaining according to this thread.

Based on the findings of this investigation but then the subsequent judgement you’re probably right !!

Anyhow congratulations on winning the league title and I will bid you a farewell.

Stproc · Post by **Stproc** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:34 pm

Dele Alli didn't dive at the weekend either, cos the ref didn't book him. However...

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:14 pm

Apparently the roads are clear in Clitheroe, they can't even get the snow to stick.

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:15 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:What's a great shame to me is that all this has blown up and has indeed caused huge rifts and divisions (not least on here!) just at a time when the Lancs League is going through a massive, dramatic and actually very exciting transformation. It was much needed and overdue and began last year with the 3 new clubs entering. This coming season it will morph even more with numerous additions. The numbers of people actively taking an interest in Lancs League cricket either playing, supporting or in some administrative capacity has over a number of years fallen, but the league IS still one of the most prestigious in the whole country and is still thriving. Loads of people still take great interest and have fierce allegiances and over the next couple of years it will move into a whole new era. This sorry episode is in danger of derailing some of that IF people don't simply accept things, like it or not, put the squabbling behind them and just move on ready for the new season and I say this as a VERY committed member and supporter of a Lancs League club (but not Clitheroe).

To be fair I have never been interested in cricket but this whole saga has made me really want to go to the lowerhouse clitheroe match next season

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:18 pm

ClaretTony wrote:No foreign players in county cricket then and very little international cricket compared to today.

I know the reasons, just saying it is a shame. I guess our generation were very lucky to be able to see the worlds best players in our own backyard.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:20 pm

Inchy wrote:To be fair I have never been interested in cricket but this whole saga has made me really want to go to the lowerhouse clitheroe match next season

You might have to catch a special bus from outside The Turf about 10.30 a.m. and be escorted to and from the ground by police cars. On the plus side you'll be able to enjoy some real ale!!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:22 pm

Why would anyone with no interest in cricket want to go?

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:26 pm

FCBurnley wrote:I know the reasons, just saying it is a shame. I guess our generation were very lucky to be able to see the worlds best players in our own backyard.

True, but I think it should also be remembered that in many instances those chaps weren't necessarily the best players in the world at the time, but were perhaps destined to become just that in the future and their Lancashire league experiences were a stepping stone along the way. Many famous names graced the league as young lads BEFORE they were actually household names. Yes, that wasn't always the case and some excellent top pros played in the league after they were world class and also "on the way down" so to speak.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:42 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:True, but I think it should also be remembered that in many instances those chaps weren't necessarily the best players in the world at the time, but were perhaps destined to become just that in the future and their Lancashire league experiences were a stepping stone along the way. Many famous names graced the league as young lads BEFORE they were actually household names. Yes, that wasn't always the case and some excellent top pros played in the league after they were world class and also "on the way down" so to speak.

The thing is, they were the best players in the world at the time. The Lancashire League were able to attract the top international players during the 1960s. All of Basil Butcher, Wes Hall, Charlie Griffith & Lance Gibbs from the West Indies, Eddie Barlow (South Africa) and Neil Hawke (Australia) were among those gracing the league. It all changed in 1968 with the relaxing of the rules in county cricket. For example, Burnley had signed Asif Iqbal for 1968 but then suddenly he signed for Kent. Other clubs were in the same boat. Prior to 1968 though we saw some absolute greats in the league along with the up and coming (such as Clive Lloyd) and some others who were perhaps on the way down.

Seasideclaret · Post by **Seasideclaret** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:46 pm

I have followed this thread and various other related threads since the start of last season with great interest. I played cricket in the Northern League, and I have been intrigued to see how Darwen, Cltheroe and Great Harwood would compete after moving leagues. I think it is fair to say that Northern League players always felt that the Lancashire League seemed to hold themselves above the other Leagues within the County. So it was interesting to see that certainly Darwen and Clitheroe showed that the standard of cricket in the Northern League and Ribblesdale League was at least equal to that of the Lancashire League . I would readily accept that the standard of pro player in the LL prior to say 1990 was in general higher than the other Leagues. Furthermore, It always baffled me in the "heyday" of the LL, with the bumper attendances announced, and no doubt high sales of refreshments, etc, as to where all the cash went - there must have been some very wealthy clubs in the LL!

I know from my own position, that over a period of 5 years in the middle 80's, I was approached on 3 occasions as I recall, to move my allegiance to clubs in the LL. It would have incurred a fair bit of time and commitment, and expense to travel 100 miles or so perhaps 3 times a week for 24 weeks! Also a player from the area covered by the LL used to come up and play in our local 20/20 competition, he also played for various teams in the LL over a long career, I would suggest that he did not move clubs for the good of his health!.

At all sports and all levels within those sports, enticements to play have been offered, its been going on for years, and will continue to go on for years to come. Nobody likes being bottom of the league, and some clubs/people want desperately to be top of the league. it is what it is. I don't believe players think its to much of an issue, you just want to get out on the pitch and beat them. I took much more pleasure in giving a "paid player a "send off", than an unpaid player!!

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Why would anyone with no interest in cricket want to go?

For the same reason you watch coronation street. The drama

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:00 pm

ClaretTony wrote:The thing is, they were the best players in the world at the time. The Lancashire League were able to attract the top international players during the 1960s. All of Basil Butcher, Wes Hall, Charlie Griffith & Lance Gibbs from the West Indies, Eddie Barlow (South Africa) and Neil Hawke (Australia) were among those gracing the league. It all changed in 1968 with the relaxing of the rules in county cricket. For example, Burnley had signed Asif Iqbal for 1968 but then suddenly he signed for Kent. Other clubs were in the same boat. Prior to 1968 though we saw some absolute greats in the league along with the up and coming (such as Clive Lloyd) and some others who were perhaps on the way down.

And not just the 60s Tony.
It was a privilege to see those great stars in the 60s, and then the likes of Allan Donald, Viv Richards, Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Kapil Dev, Mudassar, Steve Waugh, Roger Harper and many others right up to the end of the 90s.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:05 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:And not just the 60s Tony.
It was a privilege to see those great stars in the 60s, and then the likes of Allan Donald, Viv Richards, Michael Holding, Andy Roberts, Kapil Dev, Mudassar, Steve Waugh, Roger Harper and many others right up to the end of the 90s.

Absolutely. I think Holding & Roberts were here at the same time too. I saw a tail ender hit Roberts for three successive boundaries up at Haslingden. No histrionics from him, no short deliveries, he just went down the wicket and shook the lad's hand.

Roger Harper really was a magnificent pro for both Bacup and Nelson too, in some ways probably the best of the lot given his longevity in the league. By then though the big names were getting fewer and fewer, but certainly some top, top players still around.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:11 pm

Both Maharaj (Nelson) and Ryan Harris (Lowerhouse) have gone on to play test match cricket after recent stints in the LL. (I'm sure there are others)

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:33 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Both Maharaj (Nelson) and Ryan Harris (Lowerhouse) have gone on to play test match cricket after recent stints in the LL. (I'm sure there are others)

There's quite a few in recent years who have gone on to play international cricket but with the international calendar now there is little chance of getting current test players into league cricket.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:37 pm

So, the conclusion seems to be that Clitheroe were guilty of breaking the rules but the LL just couldn’t prove it? Or am I reading the league statement wrong?

Surely the LL knew what they were getting though when they allowed Clitheroe to join? I thought that it was a fairly open secret that they’d been rumoured to pay players for a long time.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:47 pm

ClaretTony wrote:There's quite a few in recent years who have gone on to play international cricket but with the international calendar now there is little chance of getting current test players into league cricket.

Very true. Most aren't even interested in playing county cricket. The real money to be made lies elsewhere these days.
Which perhaps inadvertently points to why many top foreign players, particularly West Indian players, found it so attractive and came here in the 50's and 60's. The money on offer, even in the LL was probably extremely lucrative in terms of the standard of living/wages in the Windies at the time. Now of course it's wholly different.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:50 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Very true. Most aren't even interested in playing county cricket. The real money to be made lies elsewhere these days.
Which perhaps inadvertently points to why many top foreign players, particularly West Indian players, found it so attractive and came here in the 50's and 60's. The money on offer, even in the LL was probably extremely lucrative in terms of the standard of living/wages in the Windies at the time. Now of course it's wholly different.

Interestingly, when I watched the recent BBC programme on the West Indians playing in the Lancashire League, it was reported that Constantine was unbelievably well paid by Nelson. Back then, the attendances were massive though and clubs could afford it. Even when I first started going to Burnley, you had to get there in good time to get a seat.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:51 pm

Foulthrow wrote:So, the conclusion seems to be that Clitheroe were guilty of breaking the rules but the LL just couldn’t prove it? Or am I reading the league statement wrong?

That's how I've read it.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:52 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Both Maharaj (Nelson) and Ryan Harris (Lowerhouse) have gone on to play test match cricket after recent stints in the LL. (I'm sure there are others)

Du Plessis at Tod

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:54 pm

Walton wrote:Du Plessis at Tod

2007 at Tod and 2010 at Ramsbottom, also played for Lancs.

But he didn't make an international debut until 2011.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:57 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Very true. Most aren't even interested in playing county cricket. The real money to be made lies elsewhere these days.
Which perhaps inadvertently points to why many top foreign players, particularly West Indian players, found it so attractive and came here in the 50's and 60's. The money on offer, even in the LL was probably extremely lucrative in terms of the standard of living/wages in the Windies at the time. Now of course it's wholly different.

The Race & Pace documentary said that Learie Constantine when at Nelson was the best paid sportsman in the UK. His salary was equivalent to about £45k in today's money.

In today's money, that's exceptional money for a league pro, low for a 1st class cricketer and very poor for a world class cricketer.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:06 pm

#FTH wrote:Just don’t believe everything the ‘Lowerhouse Messiah’ tells you.

I would believe him before you FTH as you are probably involved in some way .I know the House have some fat buggers amongst their support but Clitheroe ran out of pies last year before 4 pm maybe you spend your spare cash in other ways .

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:14 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:I would believe him before you FTH as you are probably involved in some way .I know the House have some fat buggers amongst their support but Clitheroe ran out of pies last year before 4 pm maybe you spend your spare cash in other ways .

Running out of pies deserves court proceedings more than paying players any day of the week.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:16 pm

Running out of beer is far worse!!