Burnley make £22.2 million profit in 2016/17

MrTopTier · Post by **MrTopTier** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:57 pm

The wage increase from £38m to £61m is £23million.

The difference between finishing 7th or 17th is £24million.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:20 pm

Are we heading for a £50 million profit for this season ?

claretcarrot93 · Post by **claretcarrot93** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:21 pm

MrTopTier wrote:The wage increase from £38m to £61m is £23million.

The difference between finishing 7th or 17th is £24million.

Wages went up due to promotion. Clauses in contracts got activated and everyone got a well deserved pay rise

keith1879 · Post by **keith1879** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:23 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Valid point here.

When we went down last time and announced a profit some people on here, (or was it the other place?) weren't happy with that announcement.

No fans wouldn't be overly impressed if we were sat in WBA's position and performing like them, we know that much to be true

And yet the following season we won the championship in considerable style - at least in part because we were sitting on that profit ...... isn't it time that we learned to look slightly further ahead than tomorow f**king morning

Let'sChaseTheDragon · Post by **Let'sChaseTheDragon** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:41 pm

CrosspoolClarets wrote:Excellent. Well run is a given with BFC in 2018. Well done to all.

My only quibble is given these figures how it can be justified serving fans sub standard produce (e.g. the water of a brand I have never heard of in wafer thin bottles) at ridiculous prices.

So, we are superbly well run, the next step (which is what I advise organisations on for a living) is to turn efficiency and financial discipline into value for money, which should be the ultimate goal, whether it is a player for £20m, a pie for £1 or a new piece of equipment for £1,000. A value for money culture should run through the club from top to bottom, left to right. It is when you put the customer at the centre of everything you do. At the moment it seems only there in patches.

Still well done so far though.

Excellent results- though agree with your point, CC.

Never really been a confectionery buyer at grounds (generally a rip-off for shite quality food) but relationship building with the fan base through fair pricing and value for money on all items should be something we strive for. Fairness signals like that would likely build even greater loyalty- eg in the event of a relegation, when we need it most.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:47 pm

KRBFC wrote:I'm not sure this would go down too well if we were currently bottom of the league, Dyche getting results has somewhat clouded the opinion on the way we're currently run.

Most Burnley fans would say that they are glad that we gave it a go by spending more than we have ever done in our history on players and wages but did not put the long term future of the club at risk by over stretching ourselves (like so many other clubs have done)

A small minority (like you) would say that we should have spent more in a "told you so" way....even though spending more is absolutely no guarantee of survival as is proven every single year with the clubs that get relegated.

As it happens its all hypothetical and there is not one single thing to be unhappy about with these accounts and the current state of the club.

Let'sChaseTheDragon · Post by **Let'sChaseTheDragon** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:49 pm

KRBFC wrote:Dyche getting results and bringing home the bacon is making the owners look better, would we still be delighted if we were currently bottom of the league having made profit in the summer transfer window? It's hard to say but I don't think it would've gone down well.

Let's not forget Sir Sean being recruited was a board decision- and he was hardly the obvious choice.

What (with hindsight) has turned out to be the best decision in the last 50 years of the club's existence was made by our board- so whilst saying that "Dyche getting results.....is making the owners look better" is quite an agreeable statement, it seems a bit one-sided. I think both parties have made each other- and BFC- look pretty good.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:03 pm

With all this success, surely it's time we went down a certain other club's path and hired a Global Advisor.

pushpinpussy · Post by **pushpinpussy** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:08 pm

the wage increase is very significant. a lot of claret tinted specs on here tonight.

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:11 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:the wage increase is very significant.

Sure is, it's let us bring in some top class players. With Dyche and his team's help, they've got us to 7th in the Premier League.

As a couple of others have pointed out, a huge chunk of that £61m will be well deserved bonuses for making us the best side a lot of us have ever seen at Burnley.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:12 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:the wage increase is very significant. a lot of claret tinted specs on here tonight.

Do you understand the accounts at all ?

The increase in wages is on the back of the increases in turnover. As a percentage of turnover the wage bill actually fell.

Why post stuff on things you do not understand ?

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:12 pm

Many of our players will in time be sold for far more than we paid for them. Great to see the Club thriving under the current owners and directors.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:14 pm

Sorry Stan but...you can have champagne on beer money

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:16 pm

NottsClaret wrote: As a couple of others have pointed out, a huge chunk of that £61m will be well deserved bonuses for making us the best side a lot of us have ever seen at Burnley.

Why hasn't it been included though?

It usually is.

pushpinpussy · Post by **pushpinpussy** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm

I'm not sure people on here are understanding or taking in the real issue with these wage increases because of our league position. nevermind as long as we are still in the prem league.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:34 pm

There's some proper plebs post on this board.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:38 pm

If the wage bill was 61m including bonuses that suggest quite a few players
were getting the equivalent of 50k a week over the year.

It's only a rough calculation but if 20 players were on 50k a week that would come to
52m by my reckoning.

So we're getting to the point where we can compete with some clubs.
Even Garlick said we're not the lowest.

We may need one or two decent incomings in the summer which could easily cost us 30m
but we'd still be quids in, I reckon.

Especially as we should be getting in another 15m or so (compared to last year)
if we finish 7th.

If I recollect correctly Sean signed up for 3.5m a year although not sure that includes bonuses.
If it doesn't then that puts him on about 67k a week.
Much more than any of the players are getting.

Not bad really and probably more than quite a few other managers are getting.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:45 pm

jurek wrote:If the wage bill was 61m including bonuses

It doesn't include bonuses.

'Staff costs (excluding exceptional promotion costs) 5 (61,198)'

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:52 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:I'm not sure people on here are understanding or taking in the real issue with these wage increases because of our league position. nevermind as long as we are still in the prem league.

Go on enlighten us what is the "real issue with these wage increases" ?

Whilst you are at it let us know what the real issue is with us making £22m profit this year and probably double that next year ?

Is it that you are worried that if we get relegated we won't be able to afford the wage bill ?

Do you think that a club as well run as ours will not have thought of this or factored this into players contracts ?

You do realise that the retained profits we will have at the end of next year will cover the wage bill alone....that`s before any of our massive parachute payments kick in if we were relegated.....or the extra £20m plus in revenue we will get from finishing 7th or 8th ? Or the extra £25m we will get from winning the Europa cup !!!

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:55 pm

If that's the case Bint Ont turf and the wage bill doesn't include bonuses then
more than a few players must have been on 50k a week.
Our highest paid possibly even more?
As presume that there are a few on much less.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:59 pm

KRBFC wrote:Dyche getting results and bringing home the bacon is making the owners look better, would we still be delighted if we were currently bottom of the league having made profit in the summer transfer window? It's hard to say but I don't think it would've gone down well.

Disagree completely. If we were bottom of the league, but still being well run I for one would be very happy. If we were spending squillions of pounds on the off chance we might just stay up putting our entire future in doubt, I'd be very, very unhappy!! (And I aint alone I'd suggest.)

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:59 pm

pushpinpussy wrote: ....nevermind as long as we are still in the prem league.

We're SEVENTH in the PL, ya donut.

Do you really think we'd be this high up
with the lower wage bill?

Walt · Post by **Walt** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:02 pm

So we announce substantial profits and yet plenty moan. I despair.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:03 pm

jurek wrote:If that's the case Bint Ont turf and the wage bill doesn't include bonuses then
more than a few players must have been on 50k a week.
Our highest paid possibly even more?
As presume that there are a few on much less.

It's a lot of pound notes for little old Burnley.

When Dyche came in our wage bill was around £12/14 million.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:17 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It doesn't include bonuses.
'Staff costs (excluding exceptional promotion costs) 5 (61,198)'

Notes No. 5 and No.8, taken together, show clearly that the wages figure of £61.198m for 2016-17 include Bonus's.

We stayed up, we made £22.2 million profit, we're doing better this year.... Rejoice !!

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:24 pm

Clarets4me wrote:Notes No. 5 and No.8, taken together, show clearly that the wages figure of £61.198m for 2016-17 include Bonus's.

It doesn't.

It does in the 2016 one.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:29 pm

jurek wrote:If that's the case Bint Ont turf and the wage bill doesn't include bonuses then
more than a few players must have been on 50k a week.
Our highest paid possibly even more?
As presume that there are a few on much less.

Our staff must be pretty big now though off the pitch. I bet that all adds up.

Overall fantastic news again with the finances.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:36 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It doesn't.

It does in the 2016 one.

The most recent accounts with a wage bill of £61m includes the bonuses as they are not listed anywhere else.

The previous years accounts separate the "exceptional promotion costs" from the rest of the wage bill....the £13m plus of bonuses are listed separately.

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:41 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:It doesn't.
It does in the 2016 one.

The Promotion Bonus's were listed separately in the 2015-2016 accounts, to stress the point that without having to pay them, we had traded profitably and would have made a profit of between £7-8 m.

No promotion occurred in 2016-2017, a healthy profit was made so therefore there was no need to differentiate between the two.

Your persistant labouring of this point merely exposes your ignorance .....

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:43 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Our staff must be pretty big now though off the pitch. I bet that all adds up.

Overall fantastic news again with the finances.

200 plus staff employed by the club now.

Pretty impressive growth in the non TV income.
In the space of 12 months an increase from around £10m to £16m.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:50 pm

Clarets4me wrote:The Promotion Bonus's were listed separately in the 2015-2016 accounts, to stress the point that without having to pay them, we had traded profitably and would have made a profit of between £7-8 m.

No promotion occurred in 2016-2017, a healthy profit was made so therefore there was no need to differentiate between the two.

Your persistant labouring of this point merely exposes your ignorance .....

Your post needed that last line because we are really short of silly arguments on this board.

I'll not oblige though.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:53 pm

I do not think we have many players who are on £50k a week.
Possibly Lennon will be on this wage as we got him on a free.

The likes of Wood, Defour and Brady probably next on £35k to £40k per week.

The wage bill is at this level because as previously reported we have an attractive bonus / performance structure built into our contracts. Of course we have brought in a higher level of player in the last couple of years and also improved the contracts of a number of the existing squad.

For a team like Burnley developing a structure of paying big bonuses based on how well the team does (rather than individuals) fits perfectly with our ethos and the way we go about our business.

Its a difficult business model to keep going for ever as not all big players who we may want to sign are happy with this structure....hopefully we will not break this though as if you get one player in the dressing room who is remunerated in a different way to others it won't be long before you get other ones wanting the same.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:56 pm

TVC15 wrote:Most Burnley fans would say that they are glad that we gave it a go by spending more than we have ever done in our history on players and wages but did not put the long term future of the club at risk by over stretching ourselves (like so many other clubs have done)

A small minority (like you) would say that we should have spent more in a "told you so" way....even though spending more is absolutely no guarantee of survival as is proven every single year with the clubs that get relegated.

As it happens its all hypothetical and there is not one single thing to be unhappy about with these accounts and the current state of the club.

I'm certainly not moaning, there's simply nothing to moan about we're in amazing shape. I just raised a hypothetical question that's all

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:58 pm

yes but why don't you answer your own hypothetical question ?
Would you be one of the ones moaning if we were in the bottom 3 and announced these results ?

Don't answer....its a rhetorical question !!!

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:02 pm

TVC15 wrote:yes but why don't you answer your own hypothetical question ?
Would you be one of the ones moaning if we were in the bottom 3 and announced these results ?

Don't answer....its a rhetorical question !!!

I will answer, I don't think the overall profit would bother me, I'd probably have a little moan about the net profit in the transfer window though (that's me being honest with my tinhat on)

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:03 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:I'm not sure people on here are understanding or taking in the real issue with these wage increases because of our league position. nevermind as long as we are still in the prem league.

Have you read the bit about relegation clauses in the player contracts? No? Thought not.

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:31 pm

Wonder if this will make us an even better proposition
for a potential buyer?
We've got to be worth at least 150m.

Got to be tempting especially as we're not in debt.

Now if I had 150m spare I'd seriously consider buying the club.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:38 pm

jurek wrote:Wonder if this will make us an even better proposition
for a potential buyer?
We've got to be worth at least 150m.

Got to be tempting especially as we're not in debt.

Now if I had 150m spare I'd seriously consider buying the club.

I wonder how much we have in assets, must be close to £80M in players.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:56 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:Seasoned 20 goal a season striker - from £80m @ £120k p/w

I admire your optimism! The only 20-goal strikers last year were Kane, Lukaku, Sanchez, Aguero, Costa. I bet none of them are on less than £120k per week.

Nonayforever · Post by **Nonayforever** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:58 pm

We have just posted our best set of accounts ever.
We are presently in the enviable position of being one of the top teams in one of the major leagues in world football.
We are in the enviable position ( profitable club / top half premier league ) of being above far " bigger" teams, not only in UK but the whole of Europe.
The brand of football is improving and the number of internationals increaseing.

What is there to question ?

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:59 pm

An excellent set of accounts. The Directors, particularly Mike Garlick and John Banaszkiewicz as very significantly the two largest shareholders, deserve our full congratulations and thanks. They are giving us the best times - since the 1960s - to be a Burnley fan.

A lot of interesting information in the accounts. It all shows that the Directors know every little bit that is needed to be known about running Burnley football club. This is what will keep Burnley FC safe for future generations.

The accounts, as we all know, are for the period to 30-June-2017, effectively the football season 2016/17. We are now in 2017/18 season. A lot of new players were signed in summer 2017 and Jan 2018. The wage costs will also be increased by the signings in Jan-2017 - as they only played for half a season in the accounts for the y/end Jun-2017.

It's worth looking at the intangible asset values (note 12), and how much they have increased as new signings have been added, less, of course, the amortisation during the year.

Exceptional Promotion costs are referenced in note 8 - but these are only for 2015/16. As noted above, player performance bonus are included in the aggregate payroll costs (note 5) £55.5 million plus social security £5.6 million (the government must love high wage football clubs).

We should all take note of note 6:

DIRECTORS’ AND KEY MANAGEMENT REMUNERATION
The directors of Burnley FC Holdings Limited are considered to be the key management personnel of the group. None of the directors received remuneration from the group during the current or previous year.

(My underline)

Yes, all very impressive. I can only echo Mike Garlick's conclusion to his Chairman's Report:

Let’s enjoy this journey we are all on TOGETHER! Up the Clarets!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:02 pm

Nonayforever wrote:
What is there to question ?

Nowt. But some of the throbbers on here wouldnt be happy
if we won the Champions League five years running.

Goody1975 · Post by **Goody1975** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:05 pm

While we are a Premier league club, my hope is that we can make a profit of these kind of levels each season (unless there are exceptional circumstances), if that is the case and remember we have this years accounts to come and another season next year as a minimum to put the club in a fantastic financial position.

The days we start just about breaking even due to player purchases and increased wage budgets is the time to be concerned and that isn't remotely the case in this instance.

Well done to the board, manager and players for what we have.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:08 pm

KRBFC wrote:I wonder how much we have in assets, must be close to £80M in players.

Hi KRBFC, part of the answer is in note 12 - Intangible Fixed Assets.

That shows £39 million - at 30-June-2017.

Of course, since then, we've both bought new players and sold a few. These player ins and outs are listed as post-balance sheet events (but doesn't quote amounts).

The figures in the accounts are the "historic costs" that were paid, amortised as described.

We should also note the details provided on impairments. Plus the contingent liabilities for additional player acquisition costs, which obviously includes James Tarkowski's England debut this week.

The current transfer market fair values will be very different from the values in the accounts, whether the accounts are for 30-Jun-2017 or 29-Mar-2018.

Great times to be a Claret.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:15 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Nowt. But some wouldnt be happy if we won the Champions League five years running.

Note 3, Turnover gave me an interesting thought. For 2016/17, as it will be 2017/18, all turnover "originates in the United Kingdom..."

If we get into Europa Cup I'd expect some of the turnover to originate in Europe...

jurek · Post by **jurek** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:23 pm

Difficult to make a guess how much our players are worth but 80m could well be close.
Currently you might be able to say that Tarks and Mee have built up a good enough reputation
this season to be desirable to other bigger clubs but can't see us selling either of them for much less than 20-25m.
Wood if he can become a 15-20 goal striker and, I believe there's every chance he could next season
then can't see us selling him for less than 25m either.
Pope is probably getting up close to 10m as well and Heaton would be a snip at 5m.
The same could be said of one or two others - JBG, Cork, Westwood and Lowton have all increased their value.

So, all in all, at this moment in time our players are probably worth more than 80m
but it does work like that really.
Come back in 12 months and their valuations could be halved.

We have bought wisely in the last few years and sold on for more than reasonable amounts.
Keane and Gray come to mind.

Hopefully none of our current stars will leave but improve with us.
Hopefully one or two will come in who can make a little difference.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:24 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi KRBFC, part of the answer is in note 12 - Intangible Fixed Assets.

That shows £39 million - at 30-June-2017.

Of course, since then, we've both bought new players and sold a few. These player ins and outs are listed as post-balance sheet events (but doesn't quote amounts).

The figures in the accounts are the "historic costs" that were paid, amortised as described.

We should also note the details provided on impairments. Plus the contingent liabilities for additional player acquisition costs, which obviously includes James Tarkowski's England debut this week.

The current transfer market fair values will be very different from the values in the accounts, whether the accounts are for 30-Jun-2017 or 29-Mar-2018.

Great times to be a Claret.

Pope £15M
Tark £20M
Brady £15M
Defour £5M
Hendrick £5M
Mee £5M
Heaton £5M
Cork £5M
Barnes £5M
Wood £15M
JBG £5M

Total: £100M and those fees are very low valuations and I didn't mention the other half of the squad.

charlyt · Post by **charlyt** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:27 pm

pushpinpussy wrote:Wages up from £38m to £61M.

that's a worry.

2016/17 - 16th place.

2017/18- 7th place.

Money worth spending imo..!

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:27 pm

Defour's worth considerably more than five mil.

Though you might be taking his injury record into the equation.

Edit....seen your note about low valuations.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:30 pm

ElectroClaret wrote:Defour's worth considerably more than five mil.

Though you might be taking his injury record into the equation.

Half the players are worth more than I put down, I just low balled to show a MINIMUM overall on the players listed.