Surrogacy for same sex couples

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:02 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Neither does the current drive to promote homosexuality once the surrogacy fails. I'm just sick and tired of equal rights gone mad. By all means be Gay, just stop being needy and accept your lot and get on with it. Your gay you can't have kids , we might let you adopt if your suitable now get on with your life and stop thinking the world orbits you.

It seems that given you’re the one trying to tell gay people how they can live their lives, not vice versa, it’s you who thinks the world orbits you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:09 am

Bfcboyo wrote:Neither does the current drive to promote homosexuality once the surrogacy fails.

"promote homosexuality"

Yeah, ok Mr. Putin.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:10 am

Hey everyone, have you seen those new homosexuality adverts they have on TV now? You know, the ones telling us to all try sucking cock.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:34 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Hey everyone, have you seen those new homosexuality adverts they have on TV now? You know, the ones telling us to all try sucking cock.

That’s probably what’s going through bfcboyo’s head every time he sees two men hand in hand, and that is what’s scaring him.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 am

Bfcboyo wrote:I just wanted a number of gay people you know bringing up kids? I'd be gobsmacked if it is more than 3.

I know a handful.

I also know others who want their own.

I also know a couple who've no interest in having kids because it wouldn't suit their lifestyle but they're great uncles and their nephew has done a fair amount of travelling with them.

I know straight people who're the same in all aspects.

Some want, some don't, some can't have their own and need a little help with that.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:37 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Hey everyone, have you seen those new homosexuality adverts they have on TV now? You know, the ones telling us to all try sucking cock.

I wondered what you were up to recently when you weren't on here for a little while...

Now I know.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I wondered what you were up to recently when you weren't on here for a little while...

Now I know.

What can i say? I saw two dudes holding hands and felt compelled to become gay.

BurnleyFC · Post by **BurnleyFC** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:47 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What can i say? I saw two dudes holding hands and felt compelled to become gay.

You mean you weren’t already?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:48 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:You mean you weren’t already?

Ask your wife.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What can i say? I saw two dudes holding hands and felt compelled to become gay.

That is it dumb down the situation from the abhorrent perverted pictures of a nice Pride march displayed earlier in the thread and turn it on the normal old fashiomed guy sticking to his guns against a current wave of old fashioned new romantic fashion icons. I have seen it all before and when push comes to shove and we are in the dirt it will all be very irrelevant.

Apart from that up the clarets. And I do not do hate I just have strong opinions that have stood the test of time. If i have offended I apologise. And that is after a thick ear from the wife after discussing this debate offline ( never again) . I don't agree but agree to disagree with all the freedom fighters on here.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:41 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Ask your wife.

IT is definately not Gay . He couldn't pull a pint he spends too much time either completing his degeree in debating or completing his life degree in being a sad sack.

Sorry to get personal you just wind me up . Which is probably a good thing as it makes you somebody more than a linatic behind a keyboard. You might one day achieve something when you mature into a more dominant viral algorithm.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:43 pm

martin_p wrote:It seems that given you’re the one trying to tell gay people how they can live their lives, not vice versa, it’s you who thinks the world orbits you.

Then I am a victim of my own reasoning.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:47 pm

martin_p wrote:That’s probably what’s going through bfcboyo’s head every time he sees two men hand in hand, and that is what’s scaring him.

No just the overly awkward ymca style twerking horror shows .

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:49 pm

Sidney1st wrote:I know a handful.

I also know others who want their own.

I also know a couple who've no interest in having kids because it wouldn't suit their lifestyle but they're great uncles and their nephew has done a fair amount of travelling with them.

I know straight people who're the same in all aspects.

Some want, some don't, some can't have their own and need a little help with that.

In honesty then you know a couple with a nephew who has to go away with them?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:53 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:That is it dumb down the situation from the abhorrent perverted pictures of a nice Pride march displayed earlier in the thread and turn it on the normal old fashiomed guy sticking to his guns against a current wave of old fashioned new romantic fashion icons. I have seen it all before and when push comes to shove and we are in the dirt it will all be very irrelevant.

Apart from that up the clarets. And I do not do hate I just have strong opinions that have stood the test of time. If i have offended I apologise. And that is after a thick ear from the wife after discussing this debate offline ( never again) . I don't agree but agree to disagree with all the freedom fighters on here.

you said "promote homosexuality" you daft ****. Anyone who uses that term unironically is a moronic dinosaur. It's exactly the rationale Vladimir Putin uses to all but criminalise homosexuality in Russia, or Chechnya's recent idea to put gays into concentration camps. The only people who use the term are bigots who are frightened of seeing gays be affectionate together. So by all means pretend you're only saying that scantily clad men and women is "promoting homosexuality", but we both know the real thing that frightens you.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:00 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:No just the overly awkward ymca style twerking horror shows .

And that's exclusive to homosexuals, is it?

If you want to complain about an overly sexualised culture then by all means, but when you are only concerned with it when it's homosexuals who display their sexuality it tells the rest of us a bit about you and i suspect you wouldn't like what it's saying.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:In honesty then you know a couple with a nephew who has to go away with them?

He doesn't have to go away with them, they take him on holiday on a regular basis.
I do know the gay couple, I've known one of them since we were very young kids, although he didn't really come out until we left school and he moved away, because we went to a bit of a rough school.....

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Sidney1st wrote:He doesn't have to go away with them, they take him on holiday on a regular basis.
I do know the gay couple, I've known one of them since we were very young kids, although he didn't really come out until we left school and he moved away, because we went to a bit of a rough school.....

I wish you well fellow claret. And I hope your friend finds solace in his life and accepts that children cannot be had. It is now tao people in your evidence as the substance to your argument tumbles into the sea.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:38 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:I wish you well fellow claret. And I hope your friend finds solace in his life and accepts that children cannot be had. It is now tao people in your evidence as the substance to your argument tumbles into the sea.

Your argument is what exactly? Forgive me for not reading the rest of your posts again. Sum it up for me, if Sidney's argument had tumbled into the sea, what is your argument? And what is your supporting evidence?

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:I wish you well fellow claret. And I hope your friend finds solace in his life and accepts that children cannot be had. It is now tao people in your evidence as the substance to your argument tumbles into the sea.

What's tumbled into the sea?

My friend and his husband don't want kids...
They're happy without.
They do however dote on their nephew...

You asked me if I knew gay couples, I gave you an example of one who didn't want kids.

As for finding solace, what are you on about?

They live a happy, comfortable life, working hard and enjoying life together.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm

I do know a lezza who'd have more kids if she could, but unfortunately she can't.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:15 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Ask your wife.

Bfcboyo wrote:And that is after a thick ear from the wife after discussing this debate offline ( never again) .

HA!

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:17 am

Turtle, you absolute player.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:55 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Your argument is what exactly? Forgive me for not reading the rest of your posts again. Sum it up for me, if Sidney's argument had tumbled into the sea, what is your argument? And what is your supporting evidence?

To summarise
Surrogacy is messing with nature. Leave it be.

Homosexual couples in the UK have plenty of rights they do not need to be having children through surrogacy. My belief is that we have been so succesful in evolution based on the family unit that it starts to dissolve once we are all Gay with cloned kids.

Pride marches have some very odd people who in any other situation would be locked up for preforming in public what was displayed in the images above. Surely cannot be good for kids to see a Pride march . How can anyone argue this.

I believe that homosexuality is not only being tolerated but in making an awaness of it being ok it is inadvertently being promoted to the young blank canvasses watching TV and social media. Creating more homosexual people instead of it being a natural glitch so to speak.

Real gay people are happy and reserved and just like the next person and not extrovert attention seekers.

Steven Fry proves that some gay people however nice on the inside had to be gay to get it away.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:58 am

Sidney1st wrote:What's tumbled into the sea?

My friend and his husband don't want kids...
They're happy without.
They do however dote on their nephew...

You asked me if I knew gay couples, I gave you an example of one who didn't want kids.

As for finding solace, what are you on about?

They live a happy, comfortable life, working hard and enjoying life together.

That is great. I am glad they do not want children and sound like good uncles to the nephew. Lets not use them as an example they are spoiling it.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:02 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:you said "promote homosexuality" you daft ****. Anyone who uses that term unironically is a moronic dinosaur. It's exactly the rationale Vladimir Putin uses to all but criminalise homosexuality in Russia, or Chechnya's recent idea to put gays into concentration camps. The only people who use the term are bigots who are frightened of seeing gays be affectionate together. So by all means pretend you're only saying that scantily clad men and women is "promoting homosexuality", but we both know the real thing that frightens you.

I fear change . Take me back in time and drop me off.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:08 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:And that's exclusive to homosexuals, is it?

If you want to complain about an overly sexualised culture then by all means, but when you are only concerned with it when it's homosexuals who display their sexuality it tells the rest of us a bit about you and i suspect you wouldn't like what it's saying.

We are starting to make many assumptions about me now. We did this earlier on immigration and you looked like an idiot and shot at me with a spelling error. Next thing you know I will be revealing I have a gay friend with whom I never tread onto these subjects in conversation so as not to offend.

But how could that be in IT's world . He has such bakward beliefs yet he is an immigrant with a gay mate.

Everybody is different and entitled to their beliefs and this is a great place to air them.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:41 am

Bfcboyo wrote:We are starting to make many assumptions about me now. We did this earlier on immigration and you looked like an idiot and shot at me with a spelling error. Next thing you know I will be revealing I have a gay friend with whom I never tread onto these subjects in conversation so as not to offend.

But how could that be in IT's world . He has such bakward beliefs yet he is an immigrant with a gay mate.

Everybody is different and entitled to their beliefs and this is a great place to air them.

No need to make any assumptions on this thread. Reading your post marks you out as a homophobe, pure and simple.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:26 am

Bfcboyo probably just needs to hug it out.

With a dude.

Maybe even a struggle cuddle.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:43 am

martin_p wrote:No need to make any assumptions on this thread. Reading your post marks you out as a homophobe, pure and simple.

I am not. I will say you have a phobia of realists. When will we have our rights supported the poor old down trodden realists.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:51 am

Bfcboyo wrote:To summarise
Surrogacy is messing with nature. Leave it be.

Homosexual couples in the UK have plenty of rights they do not need to be having children through surrogacy. My belief is that we have been so succesful in evolution based on the family unit that it starts to dissolve once we are all Gay with cloned kids.

Pride marches have some very odd people who in any other situation would be locked up for preforming in public what was displayed in the images above. Surely cannot be good for kids to see a Pride march . How can anyone argue this.

I believe that homosexuality is not only being tolerated but in making an awaness of it being ok it is inadvertently being promoted to the young blank canvasses watching TV and social media. Creating more homosexual people instead of it being a natural glitch so to speak.

Real gay people are happy and reserved and just like the next person and not extrovert attention seekers.

Steven Fry proves that some gay people however nice on the inside had to be gay to get it away.

Straight in at number 1 in this years most ignorant post hit parade.

Oh and btw i’m sure “the gays” are very grateful for those “plenty of rights” they get....of course they understand that they can’t enjoy all the rights of heterosexuals but as you point out the “real gay people are happy” with their lot.

Unfu-ckingbelievable

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:57 am

Two people of the same sex cannot have a child.
But Science allows it is the cry!

What else would science allow is my answer. Just because it is possible who decides it is morally right? Opinion and social trend. In my opinion it is not how things are meant to be. My tongue in cheek banter is only to provoke. I am by no means homophobic.

I think a lot of it boils down to opininated fools stuck up each others arses following a self deluded illusion of importance. Not the gay people you equal rights warriors who cannot see your equilibrium paradise in fact opresses more than it balances. Where the man who speaks against the tidal thoughts of the mindless masses is persecuted and shot down for his differing opinion.

I have a gay friend, I don't agree with everything in the modern world , why should I?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:59 am

TVC15 wrote:Straight in at number 1 in this years most ignorant post hit parade.

Oh and btw i’m sure “the gays” are very grateful for those “plenty of rights” they get....of course they understand that they can’t enjoy all the rights of heterosexuals but as you point out the “real gay people are happy” with their lot.

Unfu-ckingbelievable

You forgot your hash tag you mardarse

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:09 am

The name calling and labels are branded about again by the left. If someone doesn't agree with surrogacy for same sex couples it does not make them a 'homophobe'. Equally someone might have no issues with gays at all but not care for public displays of overt campness. Again not homophobic. In fact many gays don't care for this. Some on this board just cannot accept others have different opinions. The modern trendy love in doesn't make it right and because someone thinks differently it doesn't make them a 'dinosaur'.

CoolClaret · Post by **CoolClaret** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:14 am

One point if surrogacy becomes widespread and not just restricted to affluent homosexual couples.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ore-stable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'And male same-sex couples experienced significantly higher rates of dissolution than female couples or different-sex couples. This is consistent with previous findings: Gay and bisexual men are exposed to minority stressors that can de-stabilize relationships (Meyer, 2003; Lau, 2012). '

If we have concluded that topsy-turvy relationships aren't the best way for kids to be brought up in then surely this has to be considered?

I just don't think it's wise to think there are no intrinsic differences in the development of a child being brought up by a man and a woman vs the same sex, I'm concerned about the current trends to think that we are superior to nature.

Another point with regards to surrogacy is does it have the same checks needed to become a surrogate parent compared to adoption?

Finally this is an n=1 perspective of a woman brought up by two lesbian women, of course other people brought up by same sex parents might have different views.

http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/ ... ms/7921674" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" I honestly don't believe there is a right way that you can ethically bring a fatherless or motherless child into the world electively."

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:24 am

It makes them very much a dinosaur when they use some of the wording and language seen on this thread. That's not necessarily directed towards you Blackrod as I do not think you have - though you do tend to bring out the same crap about "modern trendy love" and lefty liberals etc when you well know that is just a predictable stereotypical insult and adds nothing to the debate. Its got nothing to do whatsoever with left and right politics.

As you can see on this thread the original subject matter of surrogacy for same sex couples becomes secondary to the debate and all it does is scratch the surface to a few peoples true prejudices. And if you seriously do not think that some of the posts on here are not homophobic then you are deluded.

And nearly 400 posts in and neither you or anyone else has posted anything credible or specific that tells us what a different sex couple can offer a child that a same sex couple cannot.

I'm off back to my Bob Dylan records and lentil soup.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:35 am

I like Bob Dylan and Lentil Soup.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:41 am

Who doesn't?

What about slippers and a belief that the human race isn't defined by colour or religion, at the end of the day we are all humans and deserve respect and tolerance?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:54 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Who doesn't?

What about slippers and a belief that the human race isn't defined by colour or religion, at the end of the day we are all humans and deserve respect and tolerance?

Does that involve us all having the exact same opinions and beliefs forced on us?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:44 pm

You'll have to point out to me on my post where I've said that bfcboyo.

You are being allowed to have your say on here so I'm not sure that your beliefs or opinions are being censored in anyway.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:46 pm

No one's forced anything on here have they?

I've suggested you have a struggle cuddle with a dude to loosen up though.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Who doesn't?

What about slippers and a belief that the human race isn't defined by colour or religion, at the end of the day we are all humans and deserve respect and tolerance?

I've no problem with slippers although I don't own any. I certainly don't believe the human race is defined by colour or religion at all. Respect and tolerance is very important. We live in a very tolerant country generally.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:07 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You'll have to point out to me on my post where I've said that bfcboyo.

You are being allowed to have your say on here so I'm not sure that your beliefs or opinions are being censored in anyway.

I only asked a question . You will have to point out to me where I pointed it out to you?

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:11 pm

Sidney1st wrote:No one's forced anything on here have they?

I've suggested you have a struggle cuddle with a dude to loosen up though.

I don't think so do you? Did anybody actully say somebody had.

I'm not the cuddly type to be honest.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:22 pm

Does that involve us all having the exact same opinions and beliefs forced on us?

This was just an underhand dig at the equal rights everybody is the same and everything must be equal posse and if you hold other views you are a wretched cave man brigade.

Not focusing on this thread entirely. More the mythical utopia of equality that doesn't exist in the real world without destroying it's own foudations of freedom to be different.

You all crave ultimate equality for everyone who is different yet despise the thought of others with differing opinion.

You are all a contradiction to your own pathetic principles.

MrClaretandBlue · Post by **MrClaretandBlue** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:25 pm

"when push comes to shove and we are in the dirt"

Homosexual innuendo bingo.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:50 pm

Bfcboyo wrote: You all crave ultimate equality for everyone who is different yet despise the thought of others with differing opinion.

You are all a contradiction to your own pathetic principles.

You’re a homophobe, but no one has said that means you have less rights. And yes, I have a dislike for people with views such as yours, but I’m not trying to stop you having them or restricting your rights.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:53 pm

Bfcboyo wrote:
You all crave ultimate equality for everyone who is different yet despise the thought of others with differing opinion.

You are all a contradiction to your own pathetic principles.

You people always come out with this bullshit. You always try to play it off as if we're being openly opposed to your opinion BECAUSE it's different to ours, and not because what your opinion actually is. Why do you do that? Do you think it works to paint yourself as a victim?

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:45 pm

What’s the difference between somebody who does not believe that a same sex couple should not have the same rights as a different sex couple and somebody who does not believe that a mixed race couple should have the same rights as a same race couple ?

It was not that long ago that a big chunk of the world thought that black people should not have the same rights as whites people or that women as men.

At the time there were undoubtedly people saying it’s not natural or as nature intended.

At the time there were people who had an opinion that this was all good and who objected to things changing.
Did they have a right to that opinion ? Yes.
Were they bigoted racist or sexist people ? Yes.

As pointed out already don’t get upset when people challenge your opinion and say you are a bigot or homophonic. That’s simply what you are - accept it or don’t post about it.

It’s not name calling it’s just factual.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:53 pm

There will always be people who fight against inequality and there will always be people who fight to defend inequality with words like "unnatural" "not normal" "traditional" etc.