So you are happy at how things ended up in Iraq and Libya then?deanothedino wrote:Except it isn’t. It’s a tactical strike against a small number of strategic targets. There’s quite a difference.
Frankly, I’m amazed by the number of people who advocate standing idly by while a regime uses chemical weapons against its own people.
Firstly Iraq was different, it was war and we didn’t have the right game plan for it and that shows in the outcome. We never planned for how to end it. We bodged it.Spijed wrote:So you are happy at how things ended up in Iraq and Libya then?
Both had leaders who killed their own people in a ruthless manner,
Oil and gas reserves - it’s always about who controls the oil and gas reserves.paulatky wrote:If not about chemical weapons,what is it about Tractor.
I dont understand the background/politics .
I am just very concerned about the outcome.
They are lying, war mongering cheats. They have been for decades now despite which rotten party is in power.TractorFace wrote:I'm fed up of being lied to by our politicians and most of the media. We all know that this is a proxy war. Nothing to do with a suspected chemical weapons attack. Oh yes our politicians will play the moral high ground card while trying to hoodwink the public. They take us for fools.
Why don't we strategically strike other targets that are harming their civilians???deanothedino wrote:Except it isn’t. It’s a tactical strike against a small number of strategic targets. There’s quite a difference.
Frankly, I’m amazed by the number of people who advocate standing idly by while a regime uses chemical weapons against its own people.
Syria is the last man standing in the Middle East now.....it's been targeted for years under Assad and his father before him for whatever reasons.it was a tough nut to crack but the west appear to be achieving there objectives of totally destabilising another country.if it wasn't for Russia's involvement there would be nothing left of Syria today. And let's not forget we armed the rebels/Isis .TractorFace wrote:I'm fed up of being lied to by our politicians and most of the media. We all know that this is a proxy war. Nothing to do with a suspected chemical weapons attack. Oh yes our politicians will play the moral high ground card while trying to hoodwink the public. They take us for fools.
So long as you ignore Yemen, which sadly most people tend to do.tim_noone wrote:Syria is the last man standing in the Middle East now......
Mainly because a strategic strike would be the start of WWIII as that’s using a nuke.ClaretAndJew wrote:Why don't we strategically strike other targets that are harming their civilians???
Not ignoring Yemen..the eyes of the world are on Syria though and the west for whatever reason have been after the Assad regimes for a long long time. Then we will be back on with North Korea. Tbh it's all a mess.nil_desperandum wrote:So long as you ignore Yemen, which sadly most people tend to do.
On April 14, the United States, with the support of its allies, struck a missile at the facilities of the armed forces and civilian infrastructure of the Syrian Arab Republic. Without the sanction of the Security Council of the United Nations, in violation of the UN Charter, norms and principles of international law, an act of aggression against a sovereign state that is at the forefront of the fight against terrorism has been committed.
Again, like a year ago, when the United States attacked the Shayrat airbase in Syria, the staging of the use of poisonous substances against the civilian population was used as a pretext - this time in the Duma, a suburb of Damascus. Russian military experts, having visited the place of the alleged incident, did not find any traces of the use of chlorine or other poisonous substances. No local resident confirmed the chemical attack.
The Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons sent its experts to Syria to clarify all the circumstances. But a group of Western countries cynically disregarded this, undertaking a military action, without waiting for the outcome of the investigation.
Russia most seriously condemns the attack on Syria, where Russian servicemen are helping the legitimate government in the fight against terrorism.
By their actions, the United States further exacerbates the humanitarian catastrophe in Syria, suffers suffering to the civilian population, in fact they indulge the terrorists who have been tormenting the Syrian people for seven years, provoking a new wave of refugees from this country and the region as a whole.
The current escalation of the situation around Syria has a devastating impact on the whole system of international relations. History will put everything in its place, and it has already laid heavy responsibility on Washington for bloody reprisals against Yugoslavia, Iraq, and Libya.
Russia convenes an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council to discuss the aggressive actions of the US and its allies.
http://www.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/57257" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rick_Muller wrote:Oil and gas reserves - it’s always about who controls the oil and gas reserves.
Bombing Syria helps ISIS how does that one play for the swivel eyed right wing loonstim_noone wrote:Not ignoring Yemen..the eyes of the world are on Syria though and the west for whatever reason have been after the Assad regimes for a long long time. Then we will be back on with North Korea. Tbh it's all a mess.
...and when that runs out? Can I ask about who dictates the price of the oil? Call me cynical if you like, but that’s my viewPaul Waine wrote:I recommend you take a look at US oil production over the last 3-4 years (and nat. gas production for 10+ years). They no longer need to import oil. With fracking they have got all they need - and some to spare for exports.
Its a good thing that world politics is able to move away from a "we need to control the oil" view point.
Hi Rick, the global market for oil determines the price of oil. Yes, OPEC tried to control the price - and on occasions in the past have determined the price by limiting the supply - but OPEC can no longer control the price as they are no longer the marginal supplier. The USA is now, once again, a large oil producer.Rick_Muller wrote:...and when that runs out? Can I ask about who dictates the price of the oil? Call me cynical if you like, but that’s my view
You'll be waiting a long time."They say they have proof of a chemical attack..."
I think the following is more significant:"Oil and gas reserves - it’s always about who controls the oil and gas reserves."
"Surely, what’s happening now in Iraq and Syria must serve as a final wakeup call that we have been led into a horrific situation in the Middle East by a powerful Lobby driven by the interests of one tribe and one tribe alone.
Back in 1982, Oded Yinon an Israeli journalist formerly attached to the Israeli Foreign Ministry, published a document titled ‘A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties.’This Israeli commentator suggested that for Israel to maintain its regional superiority, it must fragment its surrounding Arab states into smaller units. The document, later labelled as ‘Yinon Plan’, implied that Arabs and Muslims killing each other in endless sectarian wars was, in effect, Israel’s insurance policy.....
..And all we can hope for is that America, Britain and France may think twice before they spends trillions of their tax payers’ money in following the Yinon Plan to fight ruinous, foreign wars imposed upon them by The Lobby."
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/the-jew ... eyond.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your last paragraph illustrates magnificently your total ignorance of Zen Buddhism. What do you actually believe it to be?Pstotto wrote:World War 3 has been going on since 1945, only we've all been put to sleep so we don't know it's going on and by our own country.
Every world museum, every art institution, every major gallery, every TV station, every radio station, every phone and every computer is in their hands, via the weaponry of political correctness. The phrase itself is a joke and so is 'dumb down' and yet all suckered in for Asian rule via subtle perfidy, The Beatles and the Stones, the counterculture revolution was all for Asian rule and certainly no free love in the Indian home villages of the 'gurus.'
Zen Buddhism another and Alan Watts makes no mention of the history of Zen in relation to the rise and rise of the Nippon Empire.
Iraq and Tony Bliar.Burnley Ace wrote:Why is it that so many people seem happy to blindly trust the Russian and Iranian version of events?
My thoughts entirely this morning. Isn't it a tad irresponsible to blow up something that is producing something highly toxic, thus releasing said toxins into the air?Espia wrote:I thought chemical weapons were highly volatile and would cause massive human destruction if mishandled. Bit odd that we can bomb the hell out of the places that are storing and producing them and yet they just evaporate harmlessly into the air.
Or ours? Nobody has a monopoly on truth and to quote the famous line 'the first casualty of war is truth'. Propaganda is king in war situations and only a fool blindly believes all his government says. If you need proof read up on Iraq. We don't know who is telling the truth, the Russians or the West. Johnny Foreigner isn't always the bad guy or the liar. The population of this country has had 50 years or more of anti-Russian propaganda rammed down its collective throat so they automatically believe all that the government say. ALL governments lie, it's what they do, and ours is no different.Burnley Ace wrote:Why is it that so many people seem happy to blindly trust the Russian and Iranian version of events?
Any idea what fire does?houseboy wrote:My thoughts entirely this morning. Isn't it a tad irresponsible to blow up something that is producing something highly toxic, thus releasing said toxins into the air?
Probably because you're stupid. Highly stupid, I'd say.Espia wrote:I thought chemical weapons were highly volatile and would cause massive human destruction if mishandled. Bit odd that we can bomb the hell out of the places that are storing and producing them and yet they just evaporate harmlessly into the air.
I happen to be on the "this seems like a stupid idea" side of the fence* but it's probably important to note (and perhaps this is pedantic) that the UK has apparently struck a facility that produces chemical weapon precursors, not the actual live chemical weapons themselves, thus, theoretically, preventing/limiting further chemical weapon attacks. (Theoretically). That said...Espia wrote:I thought chemical weapons were highly volatile and would cause massive human destruction if mishandled. Bit odd that we can bomb the hell out of the places that are storing and producing them and yet they just evaporate harmlessly into the air.
Good point.Espia wrote:I thought chemical weapons were highly volatile and would cause massive human destruction if mishandled. Bit odd that we can bomb the hell out of the places that are storing and producing them and yet they just evaporate harmlessly into the air.
dermotdermot wrote:Good point.
I'm no chemical weapons expert but I'm very impressed by the amount on here that are. I did watch the program about Porton down (a "research facility") and the expert on there pointed at his container of vx agent behind a sealed unit and said something like, there's enough there to kill thousands if it got out.Imploding Turtle wrote:Not really. How much do you think is actually stored at research facilities?
So, like, a quarter teaspoonful (probably less) given ideal conditions.Espia wrote:I'm no chemical weapons expert but I'm very impressed by the amount on here that are. I did watch the program about Porton down (a "research facility") and the expert on there pointed at his container of vx agent behind a sealed unit and said something like, there's enough there to kill thousands if it got out.
2..‘We didn’t see any patients with symptoms of chemical attack’ – hospital staff in Russian MoD video."For the last 7 years, US and UK government policymakers and operatives have been instrumental in planting propaganda in thousands of ‘news’ reports and then citing them as ‘evidence’ to support their stated policy of regime change in Syria.
Redacted Tonight host Lee Camp speaks with independent journalist Eva Bartlett, who explains how western-based narratives falsely depicting the so-called ‘civil war’ in Syria is routinely spun by the US-UK media machine axis and then disseminated across a global corporate network – resulting in one the world’s largest disinformation campaign ever."
http://21stcenturywire.com/2018/04/09/i ... ins-syria/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... fSrk2HfRN8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 19m
3.."Witnesses of the aftermath of the alleged chemical attack in the Syrian city of Douma say - that those brought to hospital were not showing symptoms consistent with exposure to a chemical agent."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... BmWe5FnSCc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Comments:
..This is what real investigative journalism looks like. Nothing like the crap fed to Americans on CNN and MSNBC.
..Go figure it’s always the children getting filmed but the so called journalist are able to film without any problem ! Imagine that ! Washing the back of their heads , no gloves , rubbing their hands all over them . Everything wrong with these pictures
..Wow! So is this all bullshit as I expected?
"..The Syrian government has repeatedly stressed that there is no need for it to use chemical weapons to capture the opposition-controlled Duma city and the use of chemical weapons has provided an excuse for Western intervention. The Syrian government's argument or Trump's accusations against the "evil" Assad regime, which one is in line with basic logic? The answer is quite obvious.
The US has a record of launching wars on deceptive grounds. The Bush government asserted the Saddam regime held chemical weapons before the US-British coalition troops invaded Iraq in 2003. However, the coalition forces didn't find what they called weapons of mass destruction after overthrowing the Saddam regime. Both Washington and London admitted later that their intelligence was false..."
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1097887.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The available intelligence made clear that the Syrians had targeted a jihadist meeting site on April 4 using a Russian-supplied guided bomb equipped with conventional explosives. Details of the attack, including information on its so-called high-value targets, had been provided by the Russians days in advance to American and allied military officials in Doha, whose mission is to coordinate all U.S., allied, Syrian and Russian Air Force operations in the region.
Some American military and intelligence officials were especially distressed by the president's determination to ignore the evidence. "None of this makes any sense," one officer told colleagues upon learning of the decision to bomb. "We KNOW that there was no chemical attack ... the Russians are furious. Claiming we have the real intel and know the truth ... I guess it didn't matter whether we elected Clinton or Trump.“....
. A Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) by the U.S. military later determined that the heat and force of the 500-pound Syrian bomb triggered a series of secondary explosions that could have generated a huge toxic cloud that began to spread over the town, formed by the release of the fertilizers, disinfectants and other goods stored in the basement, its effect magnified by the dense morning air, which trapped the fumes close to the ground....
MSF also visited other hospitals that had received victims and found that patients there “smelled of bleach, suggesting that they had been exposed to chlorine.” In other words, evidence suggested that there was more than one chemical responsible for the symptoms observed, which would not have been the case if the Syrian Air Force – as opposition activists insisted – had dropped a sarin bomb, which has no percussive or ignition power to trigger secondary explosions. The range of symptoms is, however, consistent with the release of a mixture of chemicals, including chlorine and the organophosphates used in many fertilizers, which can cause neurotoxic effects similar to those of sarin........
What a fascinating read!The crisis slid into the background by the end of April, as Russia, Syria and the United States remained focused on annihilating ISIS and the militias of al-Qaida. Some of those who had worked through the crisis, however, were left with lingering concerns. “The Salafists and jihadists got everything they wanted out of their hyped-up Syrian nerve gas ploy,” the senior adviser to the U.S. intelligence community told me, referring to the flare up of tensions between Syria, Russia and America. “The issue is, what if there’s another false flag sarin attack credited to hated Syria? Trump has upped the ante and painted himself into a corner with his decision to bomb. And do not think these guys are not planning the next faked attack. Trump will have no choice but to bomb again, and harder. He’s incapable of saying he made a mistake”
https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/art ... -Line.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, it creates smoke that can carry toxins. Your point is?starting_11 wrote:Any idea what fire does?
So they don't have a right to defend themselves whilst Russia arms Iran and Syria to the teeth?tiger76 wrote:If our Government really wanted to claim the moral high ground they would stop supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia among others.
Yemanstarting_11 wrote:So they don't have a right to defend themselves whilst Russia arms Iran and Syria to the teeth?
Cool, bro!Sidney1st wrote:Yeman
starting_11 wrote:So they don't have a right to defend themselves whilst Russia arms Iran and Syria to the teeth?