We really missed Defour yesterday

[Mala591]

We were a bit over run in midfield throughout the second half yesterday. Cork and Westwood battled away but we needed a bit of extra class and composure. Westwood has done really well and is a definite option for central midfield. Can't wait to see Defour back in action though.

[Sidney1st]

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[taio]

There was always a very good chance Leicester were going to grow into the game and increasingly go for it after a great start from us - they're a good side with some very good players - and I doubt Defour would have stopped them from doing that as excellent as he is.

[Vino blanco]

I thought exactly the same yesterday whilst watching the game. Leicester overran us in midfield because they were faster thinking than us with more vision. If we are to progress even further that is one area to improve on. Having said that it was a great result and overall a good performance against a very good counter attacking team. I thought Lowton was outstanding and we didn't really miss Ben Mee, with Long having a great game.

[claretspice]

Agreed, and we also missed what Hendrick gives us as a third midfielder. The Leicester goal came because our midfield wasn't able to get close to the second ball (I think Westwood got caught between attacking it and holding his position, to be honest) and so Leicester were able to get out easily and very quickly - that's something Hendrick has very effectively stopped teams doing to us on occasions this season. But we certainly missed the additional calmness and composure that Defour offers. At times in the second half we appeared to have got carried away with the fact there was space in behind their pushed-up full backs and were just hooking it into that space relatively aimlessly, rather than playing the more calculating ball.

That's no particular criticism of Westwood and Cork (although I gave Westwood a relatively low rating yesterday, which seemed to go against the grain of opinion) because they've both been excellent and Leicester had nothing to lose yesterday, particularly once 2-0 down, but I thought we needed a touch more composure in possession at times to draw the sting. Perhaps there was a bit of tension at play yesterday - very few of the players on the pitch have achieved European qualification before. Of course Defour has, and whilst I'm sure he'd love to play on that stage again (and it might help us commit him to a new deal), he'd have probably been a bit more chilled out about the whole thing.

[MACCA]

Agreed, and we also missed what Hendrick gives us as a third midfielder. The Leicester goal came because our midfield wasn't able to get close to the second ball (I think Westwood got caught between attacking it and holding his position, to be honest) and so Leicester were able to get out easily and very quickly - that's something Hendrick has very effectively stopped teams doing to us on occasions this season. .

We didn't miss what Hendrick "gives us"

The 2 goals we scored were from the forwards combining, a Striker never give up a lost ball, which got us the corner.

I think Hendrick not playing as shown us what he gives us, or more about what he doesn't. 11 goals in 400 minutes of football , when he hasn't been on the field is the most important stat, rather than him being able to stand where the ball may drop.

Even his ( Hendrick ) fresh legs and mind yesterday, didn't think to run it into the corner, instead coming in field to get dispossessed...

[ClaretTony]

This post of mine is certainly not a criticism of Defour in any way at all, but, as we all know, Mala591 starts threads every week trying to find some negative angle.

Without Defour we have won 18 points from 9 games. I think that answers that.

[ClaretTony]

We didn't miss what Hendrick "gives us"

We did yesterday and it changed when he came on

[claretspice]

We didn't miss what Hendrick "gives us"

The 2 goals we scored were from the forwards combining, a Strikes never give up a lost ball, which got us the corner.

I think Hendrick not playing as shown us what he gives us, or more about what he doesn't. 11 goals in 400 minutes off football , when he hasn't been on the field is the most important stat, rather than him being able to stand where the ball may drop.

Even his fresh legs and mind yesterday, didn't think to run it into the corner, instead coming in field to get dispossessed...

MACCA - you are right about the first goal, that was super interplay from the two forwards. We have definitely gained something from going 2 up front (although I'm not sure either goal last week was a consequence of having 2 forwards on the pitch so perhaps we shouldn't over extrapolate).

But we have lost something as well. I know that you have a deep dislike of Hendrick as a player, but even though we were under pressure in the last 15 minutes, Leicester didn't go straight through us from front to back once after Hendrick came on, whereas they'd been making a habit of it in the previous 15 minutes (the goal being one prime example).

He did also make a balls off the opportunity you mentioned for him to go on the outside, I'd agree. But this refusal to acknowledge anything he might offer, even if you've got a point that we're generally doing very well playing 4-4-2, is surely a bit OTT?

[Vino blanco]

Most of the 18 points from 9 games came when we started playing with Wood AND Barnes in the team.

[Quickenthetempo]

The front two were poor in ball retention second half and with hindsight we should of brought Vokes on earlier.

If we only have two central midfielders it's essential we keep the ball up top more.

[Paul Waine]

Most of the 18 points from 9 games came when we started playing with Wood AND Barnes in the team.

15 points from the last 5 games - so, by my maths, we only got 3 from the 4 before the last 5. What was the issue in those 4 games?

UTC

[Vino blanco]

It could be that we didn't have Wood and Barnes playing. I never liked the idea of playing Hendrick as the number 10, it was a waste of a good player as well as a waste of the position. I also think Hendrick should have come on much earlier yesterday, possibly for Lenon, when Leicester overran us in midfield.

[taio]

It could be that we didn't have Wood and Barnes playing. I never liked the idea of playing Hendrick as the number 10, it was a waste of a good player as well as a waste of the position. I also think Hendrick should have come on much earlier yesterday, possibly for Lenon, when Leicester overran us in midfield.

I thought Hendrick might come on for Lennon too and play narrow on the right side. I also agree Hendrick isn't particularly well suited to the number 10 role as he's a central midfielder. As Macca suggested above, when he was in advanced postion yesterday he lost the ball sloppily and gave Leicester a good opportunity to counter attack when we needed to alleviate some of the pressure. Doesn't matter though of course because we won despite the inevitable pressure from Leicester. I wouldn't have been disappointed with a point before the game so it was a cracking result.

[MACCA]

MACCA - you are right about the first goal, that was super interplay from the two forwards. We have definitely gained something from going 2 up front (although I'm not sure either goal last week was a consequence of having 2 forwards on the pitch so perhaps we shouldn't over extrapolate).

I disagree, against Watford, Wood's presence was enough to upset the defender which he mis-timed his header for Vokes to prod in, and it was Barnes who won the free kick that led to the winner, neither which IMO Hendrick wouod/could have done.

I don't think Hendrick has the physical presence our style of play needs, nor do I think he has the correct attributes to link up, assist or score as well as the other 2.

Purely In the number 10 role I mean.

In midfield he is a different animal, but in a 3 and playing the more advanced role, he looks lost IIMO

[Ashingtonclaret46]

15 points from the last 5 games - so, by my maths, we only got 3 from the 4 before the last 5. What was the issue in those 4 games?

UTC

We drew away at Newcastle, we drew at home against Man City, we lost away to Swansea and drew against Southampton thanks to a good interception by Bobby Madley.
Paul, I don't think that there is an issue in those results.
I think that it was just a bit of luck that had been missing in the run without wins and that has changed a bit in recent games such as the first goal yesterday when the ball bounced back to Wood after his first effort had been saved.

The thing that strikes me is that a lot of fans just do not appreciate that we really are a team, not just the players on the field, and it is that aspect which drives all the team members to try to achieve success. Long may it continue.

[RocketLawnChair]

Since Wood came on for Hendrick at HT versus Everton results have improved remarkably haven’t they or have I missed something.

I like Westwood but Defour is just better, he’s better than Cork as well.

[Paul Waine]

We drew away at Newcastle, we drew at home against Man City, we lost away to Swansea and drew against Southampton thanks to a good interception by Bobby Madley.
Paul, I don't think that there is an issue in those results.
I think that it was just a bit of luck that had been missing in the run without wins and that has changed a bit in recent games such as the first goal yesterday when the ball bounced back to Wood after his first effort had been saved.

The thing that strikes me is that a lot of fans just do not appreciate that we really are a team, not just the players on the field, and it is that aspect which drives all the team members to try to achieve success. Long may it continue.

Hi Ashington, agree it's very much a team game - and for Burnley the team includes all the guys who are waiting their chance further back in the squad.

I've just watched clip on BT Sport, Jenas, McManaman and Hargreaves discussing "Sean Dyche manager of the year." They talk of the squad, how each member of the team know what is expected of them, etc, etc. They mention how Gray and Keane left before the season and Tom Heaton was out injured (our "England" goalkeeper) - and Sean Dyche replaced them with players from inside the club. OK, they haven't really paid attention to the whole story: Tarks signed 18 months earlier, Nick Pope 12 months earlier and Chris Wood just before the summer transfer window closed. Their point seems to be that each has been replaced with better - and who would argue against that. They also mentioned all the development on the infrastructure: portakabins replaced by "state of the art" coaching facilities.

I'm sure we all remember a few seasons back when Dean Marney was injured just after the Jan window closed. We didn't have the depth to respond positively then. We do now and Long may it continue. (Pun intended).

And, I'd still love it if Steven Defour was fit to be selected every week.

UTC

[Stayingup]

We were a bit over run in midfield throughout the second half yesterday. Cork and Westwood battled away but we needed a bit of extra class and composure. Westwood has done really well and is a definite option for central midfield. Can't wait to see Defour back in action though.

I would like to see a big strong holding midfielder in the team. The OTHER top teams all have such a player who can break play up in front of the back four.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Hi Ashington, agree it's very much a team game - and for Burnley the team includes all the guys who are waiting their chance further back in the squad.

I've just watched clip on BT Sport, Jenas, McManaman and Hargreaves discussing "Sean Dyche manager of the year." They talk of the squad, how each member of the team know what is expected of them, etc, etc. They mention how Gray and Keane left before the season and Tom Heaton was out injured (our "England" goalkeeper) - and Sean Dyche replaced them with players from inside the club. OK, they haven't really paid attention to the whole story: Tarks signed 18 months earlier, Nick Pope 12 months earlier and Chris Wood just before the summer transfer window closed. Their point seems to be that each has been replaced with better - and who would argue against that. They also mentioned all the development on the infrastructure: portakabins replaced by "state of the art" coaching facilities.

I'm sure we all remember a few seasons back when Dean Marney was injured just after the Jan window closed. We didn't have the depth to respond positively then. We do now and Long may it continue. (Pun intended).

And, I'd still love it if Steven Defour was fit to be selected every week.

UTC

All good points, Paul, and I too would love to see Defour back in harness, however, once again, Sean Dyche has concentrated on what we have available and that is what is so important. We are were we are in spite of having some 'key players' out with injury at different stages of the season. Sean has not allowed this to affect his doing what he thinks is the right thing for us to progress. He never gets hung up about injured players, he just lets them have the treatment and to recover at their pace. Very shrewd judgement.

[FCBurnley]

The long term injuries we have suffered only make our league position even more remarkable.

Heaton
Lowton
Mee
Tarks
Ward
Marney
Defour
Brady
Walters
Wells
Wood

Not a bad team

Did I miss anybody ?

[bfc1984]

No doubt we are more a goal threat with these two up top.First time in five games that we have been under pressure,but you either have it one way are the other.No doubt defour starts in a fully fit team but find it bizarre people speak negative after 5 wins.The best thing about it we have found what could possibly be our best partnership up top in a long time,they both look bloody sharp there destroying teams at the minute.

[Man of Kent]

Defour.JPG (84.25 KiB) Viewed 2729 times

Don't think he missed us though!

[RalphCoatesComb]

I'd have liked to have seen Dean Marney come on and neutralise Mahrez (Being a euphemistic term for flattening )

[pushpinpussy]

we won

[ClaretTony]

15 points from the last 5 games - so, by my maths, we only got 3 from the 4 before the last 5. What was the issue in those 4 games?

UTC

We only played badly in one of them, and that was at Swansea when they were just about as bad. Other than that we got a good away draw, got a point of City and should have beaten Southampton.

[claretspice]

I thought Hendrick might come on for Lennon too and play narrow on the right side. I also agree Hendrick isn't particularly well suited to the number 10 role as he's a central midfielder. As Macca suggested above, when he was in advanced postion yesterday he lost the ball sloppily and gave Leicester a good opportunity to counter attack when we needed to alleviate some of the pressure. Doesn't matter though of course because we won despite the inevitable pressure from Leicester. I wouldn't have been disappointed with a point before the game so it was a cracking result.

He did give the ball away sloppily, that's absolutely true. It did give Leicester a chance to counter attack, except that Hendrick then got back into his midfield role quickly, blocked off the space and forced a backwards pass, which meant that the counter attack chance had gone.

No-one argues that Hendrick should have started yesterday, because we've been hugely successful playing 4-4-2 recently. But there are reasons why we were also successful playing 4-5-1 in the autumn. We saw the benefits of having 2 strikers yesterday and perhaps at Watford (although I'm more dubious about that; it was more about having a selection of tall players on the pitch at set plays rather than 2 strikers per se that worked out well then), but we have seen the downside at times - we were overrun a bit in midfield at Watford and we certainly were again yesterday, even against a team playing 442 with two relatively inexperienced midfielders. As Hendrick did when he lost the ball, he helped us bung up the midfield and control the pattern of the game better in that final 15-20 minutes. Whether we'd have scored the two goals we did early on had he started is, absolutely, more doubtful.

But I only referenced Hendrick in passing. This thread was about Defour originally, and I think its a very valid point that we missed his calm head at times yesterday.

[taio]

He did give the ball away sloppily, that's absolutely true. It did give Leicester a chance to counter attack, except that Hendrick then got back into his midfield role quickly, blocked off the space and forced a backwards pass, which meant that the counter attack chance had gone.

No-one argues that Hendrick should have started yesterday, because we've been hugely successful playing 4-4-2 recently. But there are reasons why we were also successful playing 4-5-1 in the autumn. We saw the benefits of having 2 strikers yesterday and perhaps at Watford (although I'm more dubious about that; it was more about having a selection of tall players on the pitch at set plays rather than 2 strikers per se that worked out well then), but we have seen the downside at times - we were overrun a bit in midfield at Watford and we certainly were again yesterday, even against a team playing 442 with two relatively inexperienced midfielders. As Hendrick did when he lost the ball, he helped us bung up the midfield and control the pattern of the game better in that final 15-20 minutes. Whether we'd have scored the two goals we did early on had he started is, absolutely, more doubtful.

But I only referenced Hendrick in passing. This thread was about Defour originally, and I think its a very valid point that we missed his calm head at times yesterday.

My post was in response to someone else. I wouldnt disagree with much of that.

[Colburn_Claret]

No one seems to appreciate that the state of the game dictated Leicesters tactics.
They were 2 down in a must win game, of course they threw the kitchen sink at it.
IF it had been 0-0 at half time, I doubt very much that the second half would have run the same course, more likely it would have been a repeat of the first 20 mins of the 1st half.
That said, we weren't very clever in defending in that second half, I cringed every time we over committed going forward, one stray pass and they hit you so fast on the break. Exactly as Vardy's goal showed. We were lucky it wasn't more. Hendrick should have come on earlier, we needed bodies in the right areas of the pitch, and two up top was playing into their hands. Defour would have made a difference only in the sense of filling that midfield more. JBG and Lennon could both have been smarter at covering the fullbacks, who were often exposed. They are a good side Leicester, definitely top 10 in terms of performance, and it was an excellent 3 points.
SD often reminds us and the media that we are nowhere near the finished article, the improvements this season are massive, but we can all see that there is still room for more. It's just amazing to think how good this team could be if we show even more improvement next season.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

We have had a number of long-term injuries this season which has meant that we have had to change things round probabky more than SD would have liked. However, with the system we were playing, we have kept things tight in the first half of many matches and Hendrick has played a big part in that and also helped us get to the point where we were assured of another season in the PL.
It is noticeable that, against Everton, we were a goal down and SD realised that he had Wood itching to get on the field after his long lay off. He made the changes and it paid off and we have not looked back since.
Yesterday, Hendrick came on when we had been under pressure and we were able to stem the tide and frustrate Leicester who had had to try to overturn the deficit. It worked and we ran out winners.
As far as Defour is concerned, we definitley do miss him because he is a class player and was having a good season, however, we do know that SD concentrates very much on what he has available and lets the injured players recover at their own rate. It is a trait that I admire because it places confidence in other players and Westwood has filled a hole quite admirably.
I hope that Defour makes a good recovery and I sincerely hope to see him in a Claret shirt next season.