Burnley Local Election Results ....

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Fri May 04, 2018 2:34 pm

The final few Results are now in...

Out of the 15 Wards, Labour were defending 9, Lib Dems 4, Conservative 1, B&P Independents 1

Labour successfully defended 7 ( Bank Hall, Brunshaw, Daneshouse & Stonyholme, Gawthorpe, Lanehead, Queensgate, Rosegrove with Lowerhouse )

Lib Dems successfully defended 3 ( Briercliffe, Coalclough with Deerplay, Rosehill with Burnleywood )

Conservatives retained their seat ( Cliviger with Worsthorne ) as did the Burnley & Padiham Independents ( Gannow )

Three seats changed hands ....

Green Candidate, Andy Fewings overturned a Labour majority of 230 in Trinity Ward to gain a majority of a scarcely believable 498 over the incumbant outgoing Mayor and Labour stalwart, Howard Baker.

Conservative Dale Ferrer took the seat of the retiring Lib/Dem in Whittlefield with Ightenhill, with a majority of 59 over the B&P Independent, with the Lib/Dems relegated to third place.

UKIP Candidate and twice Parliamentary Candidate, Tom Commis ousted Labour's Jean Cunningham in a close result in Hapton with Park. UKIP had no Candidate when these seats were last fought in 2004, but he won with a majority of 53.

New Council: Lab 25 (-2), Con 5 (+1), Lib/Dem 5 (-1), B&P Ind. 4 (n/c) , Free Ind. 2 (n/c), UKIP 2 (+1), Green 1 (+1), Ind. 1 (n/c)

Full Results are here : https://www.burnley.gov.uk/node/3177

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 2:37 pm

This isn't a good look its safe to say

https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/992376672941953025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Fri May 04, 2018 2:44 pm

Bad night for Labour

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 3:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:This isn't a good look its safe to say

https://twitter.com/BBCNWT/status/992376672941953025" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No, you'd think they'd have the sense to either reinstate her a week or two ago, or wait a couple of weeks.

She has been suspended for best part of a year, though.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 3:51 pm

dpinsussex wrote:Bad night for Labour

In Burnley or nationally?
It's a bit of a mixed bag really. A lot of ex-UKip votes were always bound to boost the Tories and have taken their share up to 35%, and it's the best Labour projected share (at 35%) since 2012, so you can spin it in many different ways.
If this were replicated at a General election then Labour would now be the biggest party and with SNP support would have an overall majority.
Arguably Labour should be doing better at present, but we live in strange times where a lot of "working class" voters bizarrely won't vote for Corbyn, -who is probably more attuned to their needs than previous incumbents in the job.

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Fri May 04, 2018 3:56 pm

Underwhelming night for Labour
"Could have been worse" night for Cons
steady progress for Libs
Decent night for Greens
Awful night for Black Death, sorry UKIP

Midmoorclaret · Post by **Midmoorclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 3:59 pm

What will they think in Brighton? No BNP Councillors in Burnley! They still won't believe it though as we are still Neanderthals in their simple minds. Hope they realise than Neanderthals evolved after microscopic pond life!

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Midmoorclaret wrote:What will they think in Brighton? No BNP Councillors in Burnley! They still won't believe it though as we are still Neanderthals in their simple minds. Hope they realise than Neanderthals evolved after microscopic pond life!

They will note that going against the trend in rest of the country, (where they have been just about wiped out), Burnley have contrived to elect a UKip councillor.

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:08 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Arguably Labour should be doing better at present

Master of understatement there nil, if they can't oust the current lot especially with what's going on at the moment then they really need a rethink.

Guich · Post by **Guich** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:17 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:In Burnley or nationally?
Arguably Labour should be doing better at present, but we live in strange times where a lot of "working class" voters bizarrely won't vote for Corbyn, -who is probably more attuned to their needs than previous incumbents in the job.

That depends whether the 'working class' is working I think Nil.

Any opposition should be streets ahead in mid-term, particularly when the government seems to be lurching from one mishap to another. But the low to mid incomes tend to suffer most in a high tax environment as businesses tend to reduce Capex and investment in training, instead building up cash reserves in preparation for an upturn.

That has always happened, to some degree, anywhere in the world, but I suspect the working 'working class' will look at JC's beacon of hope, Venezuela, and realise what could happen. The electorate is better educated than ever now.

It's a sad state of affairs but with an unelectable opposition front bench, supported by around 5% of its own party, we're stuck with what we have for the foreseeable.

I bet Lancaster is pulling his hair out watching it all; assuming he has some of course

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:21 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:They will note that going against the trend in rest of the country, (where they have been just about wiped out), Burnley have contrived to elect a UKip councillor.

You'll have to revive them with " smelling salts " first, N-D, after they've fainted with shock on hearing that we've elected a Green Party Councillor !!

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 4:40 pm

Caballo wrote:Master of understatement there nil, if they can't oust the current lot especially with what's going on at the moment then they really need a rethink.

This is true, but it's really hard to predict at this stage when we don't really know who has voted in these local elections.
You have to bear in mind just how far Labour was behind when May called the snap election last May, but they came through helped by a huge surge in younger voters.
I suspect that when analysis is done, it will be the case, (that as in most local elections) the turnout of the under 30s is very low. If - as polls suggest - it's currently neck and neck between the 2 main parties, and you then throw in a lot of extra votes from young people, and factor in tactical voting in key seats, then it's really hard to predict.
I think it's safe to say - however - that Labour would be further ahead at present if there was a change in leadership, and they were more clear on their Brexit policy.
Since there's no prospect of a general election for some time, however, it's all just speculation.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:19 pm

Rosemary Carroll should have been kicked out of the party for her racism, not just suspended.

Absolutely shameful.

: pri_45032482.jpg (47.58 KiB) Viewed 3482 times

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:22 pm

If that's what she posted, it's pretty obvious that her story about trying to delete it and posting it by mistake was correct. I can imagine anyone posting something in dubious taste, misjudging that people would think it funny; no politician would ever think they could get away with that. Remember that this isn't a dodgy email to someone who she thought wouldn't tell; this was posted for all the world to see. It was clearly a mistake.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 pm

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:27 pm

It's a 2-click process to share something on Facebook. It wasn't by mistake.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 8:40 pm

DSR's hilarious excuses for her remind me of this: https://youtu.be/OM_3iXd9Xqc

Ben: Oh, what you will have done is, when it flashed up on your screen, ‘Do you want to watch Bangkok Chick-boys?’ you must have pressed the button that said ‘yes’.

Alan: Yeah, well, as I say, it’s very confusing.

Ben: Do you want me to come up and show you the button that says ‘no’?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:05 pm

I asked Lancaster this question but (as is the case with questions) he refused to be drawn: Which Labour MP would have beaten Corbyn's return of 40% last summer, had the party been under their leadership instead of Corbyn's? Yes, yes I'm a Corbyn fan, but even taking that hat off, I honestly can't think of another candidate that would have got anywhere near 40%. Sensible Miliband, remember, only scraped 30% just two years earlier.

It's a reasonable question, but there honestly isn't a straightforward answer.
For a start, had Jeremy Corbyn not been leader - and all the infighting that went with it - it's highly unlikely that Labour would have been so far behind that May would have gambled and called a snap election.
Then: Once the election was called, you couldn't have predicted that the Tories would run such an awful campaign. It was almost like she wanted lose.
Then there was the "brexit" factor. A lot of people voted Labour to try to give Mrs May a bloody nose, not expecting her to lose the election, but hoping that she wouldn't get the big majority that she was asking for.
Additionally many people gave up on the Lib Dems when they knew that they couldn't win in a seat and voted anti-Tory, and thus turned it into a two party contest.
That being said, Corbyn is a very good campaigner, especially when it comes to "protesting", and, (fair play to him), he energised and motivated a new generation of voters to actually go out and vote. This was a great achievement. Whether any other MP could have got them up near 40% we will never know. The more important question for Labour however, is whether he has consolidated what he gained last May by making the party more inclusive and attractive to those who are "in the centre", the answer to this would appear to be no. Without them he can't win outright.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:21 pm

Walton wrote:It's a 2-click process to share something on Facebook. It wasn't by mistake.

The alternative is that she quite deliberately posted something which she knew for sure would damage if not end her career; or that she didn't know that the tweet would be perceived as racist. Both seem to me to be a lot less likely than the mistake version.

As I said, I can well believe in a politician that thought that was an appropriate story to share with a friend; and that politician would be one to despise. I can't believe in a politician that would think that was a story she could share with the world.

I can believe in a politician that's clueless at Facebook but thinks she ought to use it, as well. And councillors, so far as I know, don't have PAs to do the job for them.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:24 pm

dsr wrote:The alternative is that she quite deliberately posted something which she knew for sure would damage if not end her career; or that she didn't know that the tweet would be perceived as racist. Both seem to me to be a lot less likely than the mistake version.
.

Does it actually matter whether it was posted by mistake or not????

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:26 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Does it actually matter whether it was posted by mistake or not????

Yes, of course. She didn't write the thing - it was sent to her by someone who (presumably) wanted to upset or offend her.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:27 pm

dsr wrote:The alternative is that she quite deliberately posted something which she knew for sure would damage if not end her career; or that she didn't know that the tweet would be perceived as racist. Both seem to me to be a lot less likely than the mistake version.

As I said, I can well believe in a politician that thought that was an appropriate story to share with a friend; and that politician would be one to despise. I can't believe in a politician that would think that was a story she could share with the world.

I can believe in a politician that's clueless at Facebook but thinks she ought to use it, as well. And councillors, so far as I know, don't have PAs to do the job for them.

To paraphrase the above Alan Partridge script:

Facebook: Oh, what you will have done is, when it flashed up on your screen, ‘Do you want to share this horrifically racist 'joke'?’ you must have pressed the button that said ‘yes’.

Racist Rosemary: Yeah, well, as I say, it’s very confusing.

Facebook: Do you want me to come up and show you the button that says ‘no’?

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:32 pm

dsr wrote:Yes, of course. She didn't write the thing - it was sent to her by someone who (presumably) wanted to upset or offend her.

It wasn't sent to her, it will have appeared on her Facebook feed from a racist friend or page she actively engaged with.

Your digging to defend her, when not knowing how Facebook works, is quite desperate

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:33 pm

Why do you think she did it? If it was a mistake, it would be because she's clueless at Facebook. Given that you believe she's competent on Facebook, why do you think she posted it?

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:36 pm

It can't be a mistake, because Facebook asks how you would like to share the post - instantly with one further click, to post it with your own comment added, or to send as a private message. She actively pressed one of those options in order to share it.

I believe she posted it because she thought it was funny.

It's not funny, it's as racist as could be.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Walton wrote:It wasn't sent to her, it will have appeared on her Facebook feed from a racist friend or page she actively engaged with.

Your digging to defend her, when not knowing how Facebook works, is quite desperate

That's a mighty nitpick. Could you please explain the significant difference in principle between something being sent to her, and something appearing on screen having been put there by someone else? I mean, you're quite right that I don't know in detail how Facebook works. But what exactly is the difference in principle between me opening my email account and seeing a message, and someone opening her Facebook account and seeing a message?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Walton wrote:I believe she posted it because she thought it was funny.

It's not funny, it's as racist as could be.

I know it's not funny and that it's as racist as could be. That's the point. It's so obviously as racist as could be (whether it's funny or not is irrelevant) that no politician would have ever believed it was fit to share and approve of.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 9:58 pm

I didn't want to get drawn into it, cos I'm not a Labour voter!

But Corybn is a very, very, very good protester and leader of demos. He's an excellent motivator of people to vote.......but he's spent his entire political life on the outside of the Labour party. he has his opinions and he won't change them, even if they clash with party policy. Thats a pretty big drawback for a leader of a party.

His cabinet reflects that, people who would not have got a job under any other leader.

His inner team and his fanbase tell him that just ignore the Jewish problem because it will go away, and it doesn't (just like the racist ones about the Conservatives). They don't in the age of social media. I mean, one of his biggest supporters went on TV today and talked about Hitler ffs.

And it goes back to it - why are they trying to get the 52% to vote for them, a massive majority of that won't vote for Labour under Corbyn under any circumstances? It makes no sense.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:44 pm

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:50 pm

Labour gain 59 councillors, Conservatives lose 31 Councillors.
Right-wingers say...

dpinsussex wrote:Bad night for Labour

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:51 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:They will note that going against the trend in rest of the country, (where they have been just about wiped out), Burnley have contrived to elect a UKip councillor.

One of only 3.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 10:57 pm

It would have been a better night for Labour if they hadn't been briefing everyone that they were going to kick the Tories out of London.

Good night for my lot anyway!

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:02 pm

Owen Jones claiming the protest vote for lib dems as some kind of victory

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:14 pm

Seriously. Who the hell votes Lib Dem? Sir cry baby and Vince. Jeez what a team.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:15 pm

Damo wrote:Owen Jones claiming the protest vote for lib dems as some kind of victory

Owen Jones is demented. He should have a one in one with Ashley Barnes.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:17 pm

Guess they haven't got your vote then!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Stayingup wrote:Owen Jones is demented. He should have a one in one with Ashley Barnes.

Can you give me an example of his dementia? Or is it just that you disagree with him?

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:23 pm

The “I’m stupid and I didn’t know what I was doing” excuse could catch on for a lot of politicians,for Facebook posts and everything.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:26 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Can you give me an example of his dementia? Or is it just that you disagree with him?

I think it's just that "demented" has another meaning that you don't recognise.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:29 pm

If it be your will wrote:
This is purely my opinion: I've been sufficiently persuaded over the last 20 years that chasing the centre-ground is a completely hopeless task. The harder you chase it from the left the further it recedes to the right. We saw this under Blair and Miliband. Better to stake your claim on the left, stay there and persuade others to join you. .

Firstly - it's good to have a sensible debate with you, rather than the usual extreme nonsense that we get from both sides of any Corbyn argument.
However, I think you've just summed up the problem Corbyn has.
He has indeed staked his claim to the left, but he has not got the tactical nous or ability to persuade enough of the centre to join him. He appears totally incapable of sensible compromise, and without dragging some voters from the centre, no party (left or right) can win a majority.
I happen to agree with many of his ideas / policies, but he is a truly hopeless debater / Parliamentarian, and - as others have said, he only really gets into his stride when on some sort of crusade.
The Tories constantly present him with an open goal, and he hasn't hit the target yet.
I quite like the man actually, I think he's genuine in his beliefs, and less fake than most politicians, but his failure to deal swiftly and effectively with the "Jewish" issue, and to put Dianne Abbott on gardening leave in the run-up to the last election, (when she had clearly lost it), is symptomatic of his weakness in many other areas. (e.g. brexit)
In common with many, I think that he is badly treated by the press / media and has done much to energise younger voters, but also in common with many voters, I'm afraid I don't see him as a good leader or manager.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri May 04, 2018 11:32 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:The “I’m stupid and I didn’t know what I was doing” excuse could catch on for a lot of politicians,for Facebook posts and everything.

The "i'm stupid" bit will attract a lot of former UKIP/BNP voters.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sat May 05, 2018 9:18 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Labour gain 59 councillors, Conservatives lose 31 Councillors.
Right-wingers say...

I was referring to the result in Burnley.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 05, 2018 9:24 am

dpinsussex wrote:I was referring to the result in Burnley.

Fair enough. It's not as if there's some kind of heading or title that should have told me that.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sat May 05, 2018 10:00 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Fair enough. It's not as if there's some kind of heading or title that should have told me that.

Given the original posters commentary was about Burnley results I thought it was fairly safe assumption.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat May 05, 2018 10:08 am

dpinsussex wrote:Given the original posters commentary was about Burnley results I thought it was fairly safe assumption.

Yes. I was mocking myself