Imagine getting a £13,750 hospital bill when the NHS is gone

[Imploding Turtle]

Now imagine that all you were paying for was some baby formula and a nap.

https://www.vox.com/2018/6/28/17506232/ ... rance-baby" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JohnMac]

That is staggering and would probably result in a coronary receiving a bill like that.

I never take for granted something as wonderful as the NHS and it would be far better if the management structure was trimmed and efficient no doubt.

[thatdberight]

Imagine resolving something as complex as the healthcare provision to 70 million people to something so simplistic just to make the usual point...

[mdd2]

Why get cover for only 5000 dollars for health care to the USA.
If you cannot afford the true insurance costs then don't go to the US on holiday
We are the mugs in the UK who rarely charge overseas visitors for emergency care-in fact A/E care is free but once admitted fees are due.
Even some Americans think it is OK to come here and not have insurance as the NHS is "free".

[FactualFrank]

I was in a Florida hospital for 2 weeks. Think the bill we got was over $40000. This was in 1999 too. Fortunately our insurance covered it, after weeks of them trying to get out of it.

They give you a full body CT Scan in the US if you sneeze twice.

[mdd2]

I was in a Florida hospital for 2 weeks. Think the bill we got was over $40000. This was in 1999 too. Fortunately our insurance covered it, after weeks of them trying to get out of it.

They give you a full body CT Scan in the US if you sneeze twice.

Same here, only those visiting have to sneeze four times before they get an MR scan

[piston broke]

Don’t go to the shithole. No problem.

[mdd2]

Don’t go to the shithole. No problem.

A shithole nation that has preserved our democracy for a century.

[South West Claret.]

A shithole nation that has preserved our democracy for a century.

Yes but at the same time they have elected a bafoon like Bush Jr not once but twice! and then just compound matters elect the ridiculous Billionaire Trump.

[Rowls]

This is definitely going to happen once the secret plan to destroy the NHS is revealed and after it has happened.

It's the ambition of so many people out there to destroy the NHS completely.

You can tell who they are because they deny it.

This is definitely going to happen very soon to YOUR hospital.

[randomclaret2]

You'd imagine thousands would be rushing to get out of the " shithole " ..
Perhaps to Britain ?

[South West Claret.]

This is definitely going to happen once the secret plan to destroy the NHS is revealed and after it has happened.

It's the ambition of so many people out there to destroy the NHS completely.

You can tell who they are because they deny it.

This is definitely going to happen very soon to YOUR hospital.

The drip drip undermining of the NHS goes on every time we have a Conservative government.. while at the same denying it.

[thatdberight]

Yes but at the same time they have elected a bafoon like Bush Jr not once but twice! and then just compound matters elect the ridiculous Billionaire Trump.

buffoon*

If you're going to deride others' intelligence...

[South West Claret.]

buffoon*

If you're going to deride others' intelligence...

Thank you spellchecker what would we do without people like you.

[thatdberight]

Thank you spellchecker what would we do without people like you.

Thank you,*spellchecker.* W*hat would we do without people like you?*

Pleasure. All mine.

[mdd2]

The drip drip undermining of the NHS goes on every time we have a Conservative government.. while at the same denying it.

I think the NHS does a pretty good job of that itself with the help of those who (ab)use it

[The Sofa Shifter]

You do know that whether you pay it or it's paid for by the NHS, the cost pretty much remains the same>?

[bf2k]

A shithole nation that has preserved our democracy for a century.

Helped preserve our democracy and when it suited them (i.e. they were threatened).

[mdd2]

Helped preserve our democracy and when it suited them (i.e. they were threatened).

Like when they declared war on Germany after the Japs bombed Pearl Harbour

[Jeffbfc]

Like when they declared war on Germany after the Japs bombed Pearl Harbour

Germany and Italy declared war on America after they declared war on Japan.
Although they has been supplying Britain for two years.

[Stayingup]

Problem is we don't have enough hospitals and doctors and nurses and now too many people. I was in the French system for a long time and each patient in the system had to pay a %age of every visit to the hospital or doctor or dentist @ 30%. A small insurance would repay that. About Euros 50 / month.

But if you were not in the system and had not paid in for two years you had to pay 100% cost.

We should have a similar system and it would sort the NHS. But our totally useless politicians and bleeding hearts would never implement such a system

[Jeffbfc]

Problem is we don't have enough hospitals and doctors and nurses and now too many people. I was in the French system for a long time and each patient in the system had to pay a %age of every visit to the hospital or doctor or dentist @ 30%. A small insurance would repay that. About Euros 50 / month.

But if you were not in the system and had not paid in for two years you had to pay 100% cost.

We should have a similar system and it would sort the NHS. But our totally useless politicians and bleeding hearts would never implement such a system

We do or did. That was what the national insurance payment was for.
Now it's just another tax.

[nil_desperandum]

Like when they declared war on Germany after the Japs bombed Pearl Harbour

Not sure if that is a serious comment or sarcastic, but anyway, just to clarify - for those who aren't aware. The USA did NOT declare war on Germany in 1941 - or at least not until Germany were already at war with them.
Churchill had been on at them to oppose Nazism, and Chamberlain's policy of appeasement since the mid-30s, and since 1940 had been desperately pleading with them. USA declared war on Japan following Pearl Harbour, and 4 days later Hitler declared war on USA in support of one of his Axis allies.
USA did of course have no alternative but to then declare war on Germany.

[bluelabrador16]

Informative read:

UN Poverty Report Slams America .....Gordon Duff

"The recent UN report on American poverty goes much further, indicting the political system as well, citing hidden efforts that have allowed dictatorial control of elections and “rule by the rich.”....

“The United States is a land of stark contrasts. It is one of the world’s wealthiest societies, a global leader in many areas, and a land of unsurpassed technological and other forms of innovation. Its corporations are global trendsetters, its civil society is vibrant and sophisticated, and its higher education system leads the world. But its immense wealth and expertise stand in shocking contrast with the conditions in which vast numbers of its citizens live. About 40 million live in poverty, 18.5 million in extreme poverty, and 5.3million live in Third World conditions of absolute poverty.

It has the highest youth poverty rate in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), and the highest infant mortality rates among comparable OECD States. Its citizens live shorter and sicker lives compared to those living in all other rich democracies, eradicable tropical diseases are increasingly prevalent, and it has the world’s highest incarceration rate, one of the lowest levels of voter registrations in among OECD countries and the highest obesity levels in the developed world.

The United States has the highest rate of income inequality among Western countries.

The $1.5 trillion in tax cuts in December 2017 overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and worsened inequality. The consequences of neglecting poverty and promoting inequality are clear. The United States has one of the highest poverty and inequality levels among the OECD countries, and the Stanford Center on Inequality and Poverty ranks it 18th out of 21 wealthy countries in terms of labour markets, poverty rates, safety nets, wealth inequality and economic mobility. But in 2018 the United States had over 25 percent of the world’s 2,208 billionaires.

There is thus a dramatic contrast between the immense wealth of the few and the squalor and deprivation in which vast numbers of Americans exist. For almost five decades the overall policy response has been neglectful at best, but the policies pursued over the past year seem deliberately designed to remove basic protections from the poorest, punish those who are not in employment and make even basic health care into a privilege to be earned rather than a right of citizenship.”....

...There are also global consequences. The tax cuts will fuel a global race to the bottom, thus further reducing the revenues needed by Governments to ensure basic social protection and meet their human rights obligations. And the United States remains a model whose policies other countries seek to emulate..

https://journal-neo.org/2018/06/24/un-p ... s-america/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

God help us!

[bfcmik]

Not sure if that is a serious comment or sarcastic, but anyway, just to clarify - for those who aren't aware. The USA did NOT declare war on Germany in 1941 - or at least not until Germany were already at war with them.
Churchill had been on at them to oppose Nazism, and Chamberlain's policy of appeasement since the mid-30s, and since 1940 had been desperately pleading with them. USA declared war on Japan following Pearl Harbour, and 4 days later Hitler declared war on USA in support of one of his Axis allies.
USA did of course have no alternative but to then declare war on Germany.

Even after the Axis powers declared war on the US the President and Congress did not declare war on Germany or Italy until after some of it's ships were sunk by German submarines.

[South West Claret.]

Thank you,*spellchecker.* W*hat would we do without people like you?*

Pleasure. All mine.

Jolly good I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

[mdd2]

Even after the Axis powers declared war on the US the President and Congress did not declare war on Germany or Italy until after some of it's ships were sunk by German submarines.

Thanks for the heads up on that. Only took them 50 days from Pearl Harbour to have boots on the ground in UK.
Declaration of war on the 11th December 4days after Pearl Harbour was by Italy then Germany and then US congress reciprocated. The reality (having looked all this up) was that the american Navy had been engaging German U boats in the atlantic since mid 1941.

[deanothedino]

Thanks for the heads up on that. Only took them 50 days from Pearl Harbour to have boots on the ground in UK.
Declaration of war on the 11th December 4days after Pearl Harbour was by Italy then Germany and then US congress reciprocated. The reality (having looked all this up) was that the american Navy had been engaging German U boats in the atlantic since mid 1941.

Because they were threatened by them... Not sure why you're trying to refute bf2k's post. America has never come to our rescue, they've only ever been dragged into the fight.

[mdd2]

Not refuting bf2k's post at all just adding to what he posted having had a gander on't net.

[evensteadiereddie]

Jolly good I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

Jolly good. I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

or

Jolly good, I like to hear people enjoying themselves

or

Jolly good: I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

Er, just as a matter of interest, how do you do that - put a glass up to the neighbours' bedroom wall ?

[Dy1geo]

Every year we get a bill to help pay for the NHS, it’s just that you pay it out of your general taxation. It amounts to approximately 22% of what you pay in taxes so if you earn around £25,000, you will pay approximately £575 out of your annual paye tax bill of £2620 towards the NHS. If you earn more you will pay more but to me that is still the fairest way to pay for universal healthcare.

[thatdberight]

Every year we get a bill to help pay for the NHS, it’s just that you pay it out of your general taxation. It amounts to approximately 22% of what you pay in taxes so if you earn around £25,000, you will pay approximately £575 out of your annual paye tax bill of £2620 towards the NHS. If you earn more you will pay more but to me that is still the fairest way to pay for universal healthcare.

Your point is well made but, just in case anyone thinks that's all it costs them, don't forget that it's also 22% of the VAT, car tax, IPT, National Insurance, Employer's National Insurance, Corporation Tax (those profits often going towards people's pension pots), excise duties on alcohol, cigarettes, fuel etc... and so on.

This issue is far too big for a football message board but, eventually, we are going to have to ask ourselves some questions.
1 Are we prepared to pay more than we do now for healthcare (because it's not enough)?
2 Does publicly funded necessarily mean publicly run?
3 Are we going to continue the trend of diagnosing and medicating ourselves to much higher degrees than we used to?
4 Are we going to place more responsibility for health on to individuals and stop the rest of society picking up the tab?
Once we know the answers to 3 and 4, we can evaluate 1 and argue 2.

[bfcmik]

Every year we get a bill to help pay for the NHS, it’s just that you pay it out of your general taxation. It amounts to approximately 22% of what you pay in taxes so if you earn around £25,000, you will pay approximately £575 out of your annual paye tax bill of £2620 towards the NHS. If you earn more you will pay more but to me that is still the fairest way to pay for universal healthcare.

Strangely enough, for those of us who are not self-employed or able to avoid tax, 22% is about the same as the amount generated from our wages as 'National Insurance' payments. The employee and employer both contribute a significant chunk of change for every pound on the top line of their wage slip.

[South West Claret.]

Jolly good. I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

or

Jolly good, I like to hear people enjoying themselves

or

Jolly good: I like to hear people enjoying themselves.

Er, just as a matter of interest, how do you do that - put a glass up to the neighbours' bedroom wall ?

Strange post.