National Service

[ClaretMoffitt]

Confirmed alt+right troll

“Men can be called ‘soy’ for all kinds of terrible crimes against masculinity, ranging from wearing a shirt far-right people dislike to speaking up in defence of a woman. There’s also an element of anger towards veganism and vegetarianism, which often intersects with a dislike of ‘feminine’ traits. It’s used in a similar way to ‘cuck’, which, if you remember, really hit the mainstream last year. Here’s hoping ‘soy’ will take the same path as ‘cuck’, become widely known, and will be used to take the **** by the very people labelled ‘soy boys’ in the first place. These kinds of insults only work when they’re underground, insular, and the people the labels are thrown at aren’t in on the joke. Shine a light on the definition of ‘soy boy’ and you take away its power. Because really, who cares if you’re called ‘soy’ if all it means is ‘not meeting guidelines of masculinity defined by alt-right trolls who appear to be terrified of all things feminine’?”

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/28/what-is- ... y-7034424/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very long winded way of saying "i'm a soy boy and proud"

[AlargeClaret]

No, but regardless of the day-to-day of his specialisation, he still undergoes basic militarisation. Again, I'm not disrespecting the military and I think you're being very emotional to assume I am. I'm making the argument that forcing people against their will into militarisation could be a recipe for disaster. You can't 'beat' people into 'decency' or whatever folk want to call it. It'll only ever foster recalcitrance in those whom national service is ostensibly supposed by it's advocates to affect.

Unless there’s a war to be fought ? ( the only time NS has ever been used in the U.K.) yes it went on after the war until the world situation had settled

WW1 and WW11 ,where the hell we’d have been without conscription I don’t know . There was an avenue for cowards it’s called conscientious objection .

[Greenmile]

Very long winded way of saying "i'm a soy boy and proud"

Rather a soy boy (which, lets be honest, doesn’t really mean anything), than an alt-right troll who appears to be terrified of all things feminine.

[Lancasterclaret]

Will do if it means compulsory NS for everyone else

Nah mate, you want to do this. You said so.

Picture of CM in the army he really wants to join.

[Greenmile]

Nah mate, you want to do this. You said so.

Picture of CM in the army he really wants to join.

Is he the beta cuck soy boy at the back?

[Lancasterclaret]

Nah, he's the one out of shot going

"Wait, I'm not sure about this, I only tend to talk about this kind of stuff, I didn't actually realise that by backing stuff like this this is where we'd end up, I even said I was against camps on UTB"

And then the one in about five years time going

"We were only following orders, it doesn't make me a war criminal"

[Lancasterclaret]

And please don't take this personally CM.

It is an attempt (probably not a very good one) to remind people of the real consequences that can happen when people decide that scapegoating and blaming other people is the way forward, and the dangers of following demagogues.

[JohnMac]

No, I wouldn't want to see National Service introduced at any time in the future. Society has changed and attitudes have changed and there would be a % of people who wouldn't do ANYTHING to contribute. That in effect is counter productive and would achieve very little.

I would sooner see a scheme introduced to clean our environment, roadsides, hedgerows, streets and backstreets and try to put some pride back. Unfortunately funding isn't there and a simple clean up operation using a prodder, brush, shovel and bin bag would likely be turned into a major operation because of the H&S laws that exist.

I served from 16 to 40 and never regretted a moment but you have to want to do it.

[ClaretAndJew]

Forget National Service and bring back the National Front

[Lancasterclaret]

I spent my entire childhood till the age of 14 wanting to join the army. I joined the cadets and decided that no, on reflection, that wasn't the life for me.

I'm not sure that national service in any form would be workable, affordable and would do any good.*

*conscription for a war like WWII (heaven forbid) though would almost certainly happen though.**

**though it wouldn't be anything like WWII

[JohnMac]

I’m in favour of a kind of national service, but something more wide ranging than the military. The NHS, schools, community initiatives, and a whole raft of things could do with more manpower. And in return those young people should get free university (or continued education).

I like where you are coming from and that would be the road I would take BUT not just another rip off scheme where people are used to do jobs for little reward under the guise of a government scheme.

[If it be your will]

.

[South West Claret.]

National Service? Before a job offer people usually like to know what the wages and conditions are, so what are they then?

Still waiting for the answer.

[karatekid]

National service will never happen.
Too many cuts.
We haven't got enough guns to go round.

[Walton]

I was up at my grandparents' house last weekend, and my grandad was saying how much he hated doing national service, and just wanted to get it over and done with.

He lost 2 years with his wife and young family.

[If it be your will]

.

[South West Claret.]

National Service? Before a job offer people usually like to know what the wages and conditions are, so what are they then?

[deanothedino]

National Service? Before a job offer people usually like to know what the wages and conditions are, so what are they then?

Aren't you bored yet?

[South West Claret.]

Aren't you bored yet?

Nop, but thanks for asking.

[ClaretMoffitt]

You think that if some people have to fight for their country, everyone should have to. Come on Moffit, you're a proper lefty at heart, aren't you? I can tell. Just need to tease it out of you sometimes.

It's ok, you know. It's not like admitting to eating falafel or anything.

(Hello everyone. I'm If it be your will, and I sometimes eat falafel. Ah. That's much better. Go on Moffit, try it: I'm Claretmoffit, and I'm a bit of a lefty...)

I wouldn't say national service is inherently right wing. In fact I think it's a bit of a travesty that the left has surrended nationalism itself to the right. The same is true of masculinity, you don't get more left wing than soviet Russia but you would never get anyone ever accusing them of being softies.

Economically I have always swayed centre left, socially I'd say so too for the most part. But I refuse to subscribe to this modern cultural Marxism and progressive PC ********, that's why I constantly side with the right on most (not all) issues

[Greenmile]

I wouldn't say national service is inherently right wing. In fact I think it's a bit of a travesty that the left has surrended nationalism itself to the right. The same is true of masculinity, you don't get more left wing than soviet Russia but you would never get anyone ever accusing them of being softies.

Economically I have always swayed centre left, socially I'd say so too for the most part. But I refuse to subscribe to this modern cultural Marxism and progressive PC ********, that's why I constantly side with the right on most (not all) issues

Very long-winded way of saying “I’m an alt-right troll who appears to be terrified of all things feminine”

[UpTheBeehole]

Only utter bellends use the term 'cultural marxism'

[ClaretMoffitt]

Very long-winded way of saying “I’m an alt-right troll who appears to be terrified of all things feminine”

I'm only ever trolling about 10-15% of the time on here and of that 10-15% when I am trolling, i'm only 50% trolling.

[Cryssys]

you don't get more left wing than soviet Russia

Have to disagree with that. Putin is a racist who does not tolerate dissent, debate or any opinion that is different his.

He wants to make Russia great again and take them back in time to the good old (cold war) days. I'd suggest that he is about as conservative as it is possible to get. Why else do you think he supported the Trump campaign?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Have to disagree with that. Putin is a racist who does not tolerate dissent, debate or any opinion that is different his.

He wants to make Russia great again and take them back in time to the good old (cold war) days. I'd suggest that he is about as conservative as it is possible to get. Why else do you think he supported the Trump campaign?

Was talking about actual Sovet Russia, like in the 50's/60s.

[Greenmile]

I'm only ever trolling about 10-15% of the time on here and of that 10-15% when I am trolling, i'm only 50% trolling.

I see you’ve only bothered to address (and partially agree with) a third of my statement. Presumably then, you also accept that you’re alt-right and terrified of all things feminine.

Re “cultural Marxism”, this is an interesting article, which you should read (but probably won’t)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... the-victim" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


“It allows those smarting from a loss of privilege to be offered the shroud of victimhood, by pointing to a shadowy, omnipresent, quasi-foreign elite who are attempting to destroy all that is good in the world. It offers an explanation for the decline of families, small towns, patriarchal authority, and unchallenged white power: a vast, century-long left wing conspiracy. And it distracts from the most important factor in these changes: capitalism, which demands mobility, whose crises have eroded living standards, and which thus, among other things, undermines the viability of conventional family structures and the traditional lifestyles that conservatives approve of.”

[UpTheBeehole]

"'Cultural Marxism" in modern usage refers to a conspiracy theory which sees the Frankfurt School as part of an ongoing movement to take over and destroy Western culture.[54][55][56][57]

The term "cultural Marxism" has an academic usage within cultural studies, where it refers to a form of anti-capitalist cultural critique which specifically targets those aspects of culture that are seen as profit-driven and mass-produced under capitalism.[58][59][60][61][62] As an area of the Frankfurt School's discourse, "cultural Marxism" has commonly considered the industrialization and mass production of culture by the culture industry as having an overall negative effect on society, an effect which can mislead an audience away from perceiving a more authentic sense of human values.[63][59] British theorists such as Richard Hoggart of the Birmingham School developed a working class sense of "British Cultural Marxism" which objected to the "massification" and "drift" away from local cultures, a process of commercialization Hoggart saw as being enabled by tabloid newspapers, advertising, and the American film industry.[64]

The term remained academic until the late 1990s, when it began to gain currency among paleoconservatives as part of an ongoing culture war in which it was argued that the very same theorists who were analysing and objecting to the "massification" and mass control via commercialization of culture were in fact working in a conspiracy to control and stage their own attack on Western society, using 1960s counterculture, multiculturalism, progressive politics and political correctness as their methods.[56][65][66] This conspiracy theory version of the term is associated with American religious paleoconservatives such as William S. Lind, Pat Buchanan, and Paul Weyrich; but also holds currency among the alt-right, white nationalist groups, and the neo-reactionary movement.[66][57][67]

Weyrich first presented his notion of Cultural Marxism in a 1998 speech to the Civitas Institute's Conservative Leadership Conference, later repeating this usage in his widely syndicated "culture war letter".[66][68][69] At Weyrich's request, William S. Lind wrote a short history of his conception of Cultural Marxism for the Free Congress Foundation; in it Lind identifies the presence of homosexuals on television as proof of Cultural Marxist control over the mass media and claims that Herbert Marcuse considered a coalition of "blacks, students, feminist women, and homosexuals" as a vanguard of cultural revolution.[56][65][70] Lind has since published his own depiction of a fictional Cultural Marxist apocalypse.[71][72] Lind and Weyrich's writings on this subject advocate fighting what they perceive as Cultural Marxism with "a vibrant cultural conservatism" composed of "retroculture" fashions from the past, a return to rail systems as public transport, and an agrarian culture of self-reliance modeled after the Amish.[56][72][73][74][75][76][77][excessive citations]

In 1999, Lind led the creation of an hour-long program entitled "Political Correctness: The Frankfurt School".[54] Some of Lind's content went on to be reproduced by James Jaeger in his YouTube film "CULTURAL MARXISM: The Corruption of America".[78]

The historian Martin Jay commented on this phenomenon saying that Lind's original documentary:

... spawned a number of condensed textual versions, which were reproduced on a number of radical right-wing sites. These in turn led to a welter of new videos now available on YouTube, which feature an odd cast of pseudo-experts regurgitating exactly the same line. The message is numbingly simplistic: all the ills of modern American culture, from feminism, affirmative action, sexual liberation and gay rights to the decay of traditional education and even environmentalism are ultimately attributable to the insidious influence of the members of the Institute for Social Research who came to America in the 1930's.[54]

Heidi Beirich likewise holds that the conspiracy theory is used to demonize various conservative "bêtes noires" including "feminists, homosexuals, secular humanists, multiculturalists, sex educators, environmentalists, immigrants, and black nationalists".[79]

According to Chip Berlet, who specializes in the study of far-right movements, the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory found a place within the Tea Party movement of 2009, with contributions published in the American Thinker and WorldNetDaily highlighted by some Tea Party websites.[80][81][82]

The Southern Poverty Law Center has reported that William S. Lind in 2002 gave a speech at a Holocaust denial conference on the topic of Cultural Marxism. In this speech Lind noted that all the members of The Frankfurt School were "to a man, Jewish", but it is reported that Lind claims not to question whether the Holocaust occurred and suggests he was present in an official capacity for the Free Congress Foundation "to work with a wide variety of groups on an issue-by-issue basis".[83][84]

Although the theory became more widespread in the late 1990s and through the 2000s, the modern iteration of the theory originated in Michael Minnicino's 1992 essay "New Dark Age: Frankfurt School and 'Political Correctness'", published in Fidelio Magazine by the Schiller Institute.[54][85][86] The Schiller Institute, a branch of the LaRouche movement, further promoted the idea in 1994.[87] The Minnicino article charges that the Frankfurt School promoted Modernism in the arts as a form of cultural pessimism and shaped the counterculture of the 1960s (such as the British pop band The Beatles) after the Wandervogel of the Ascona commune.[85]

More recently, the Norwegian terrorist Anders Behring Breivik included the term in his document "2083: A European Declaration of Independence", which—along with The Free Congress Foundation's Political Correctness: A Short History of an Ideology—was e-mailed to 1,003 addresses approximately 90 minutes before the 2011 bomb blast in Oslo for which Breivik was responsible.[88][89][90] Segments of William S. Lind's writings on Cultural Marxism have been found within Breivik's manifesto.[91]

In July 2017, Rich Higgins was removed by US National Security Advisor H. R. McMaster from the United States National Security Council following the discovery of a seven-page memorandum he had authored, describing a conspiracy theory concerning a plot to destroy the presidency of Donald Trump by Cultural Marxists, as well as Islamists, globalists, bankers, the media, and members of the Republican and Democratic parties.[92][93][94]

Philosopher and political science lecturer Jérôme Jamin has stated that "[n]ext to the global dimension of the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, there is its innovative and original dimension, which lets its authors avoid racist discourses and pretend to be defenders of democracy".[55] Professor and Oxford fellow Matthew Feldman has traced the terminology back to the pre-war German concept of Cultural Bolshevism, locating it as part of the degeneration theory that aided in Hitler's rise to power.[95] William S. Lind confirms this as his period of interest, writing that "[Cultural Marxism] is an effort that goes back not to the 1960s and the hippies and the peace movement, but back to World War I".[84]

You've got some interesting bedfellows in believing that 'cultural marxism' is a thing Moffitt.

Mind you, we all knew you were of the same ilk as Breivik

[UpTheBeehole]

I see you’ve only bothered to address (and partially agree with) a third of my statement. Presumably then, you also accept that you’re alt-right and terrified of all things feminine.

Re “cultural Marxism”, this is an interesting article, which you should read (but probably won’t)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... the-victim" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


“It allows those smarting from a loss of privilege to be offered the shroud of victimhood, by pointing to a shadowy, omnipresent, quasi-foreign elite who are attempting to destroy all that is good in the world. It offers an explanation for the decline of families, small towns, patriarchal authority, and unchallenged white power: a vast, century-long left wing conspiracy. And it distracts from the most important factor in these changes: capitalism, which demands mobility, whose crises have eroded living standards, and which thus, among other things, undermines the viability of conventional family structures and the traditional lifestyles that conservatives approve of.”

Only complete cucks believe in cultural marxism.

[Cryssys]

Was talking about actual Sovet Russia, like in the 50's/60s.

So you were referring to the USSR of 50 -60 years ago, so what relevance does it have to the world of today?

[evensteadiereddie]

The Muff would do nothing except continue to peddle his weak, petty jealousies. A complete prick.

[ClaretMoffitt]

I see you’ve only bothered to address (and partially agree with) a third of my statement. Presumably then, you also accept that you’re alt-right and terrified of all things feminine.

Re “cultural Marxism”, this is an interesting article, which you should read (but probably won’t)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... the-victim" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


“It allows those smarting from a loss of privilege to be offered the shroud of victimhood, by pointing to a shadowy, omnipresent, quasi-foreign elite who are attempting to destroy all that is good in the world. It offers an explanation for the decline of families, small towns, patriarchal authority, and unchallenged white power: a vast, century-long left wing conspiracy. And it distracts from the most important factor in these changes: capitalism, which demands mobility, whose crises have eroded living standards, and which thus, among other things, undermines the viability of conventional family structures and the traditional lifestyles that conservatives approve of.”

I don't see any point pointing this out, because I know none of you care and its easy just to call me and people like me alt right but;

The Alt right pretty much defines itself on ethnostatism, collectivism and white supremacy.

Those are the core values on the Alt-right.

I don't, nor have ever supported any such ideals.

Buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt I am an alt-right neo nazi just because.

[ClaretMoffitt]

The Muff would do nothing except continue to peddle his weak, petty jealousies. A complete prick.

Calm down soy boy, don't wet your little panties.

[Greenmile]

I don't see any point pointing this out, because I know none of you care and its easy just to call me and people like me alt right but;

The Alt right pretty much defines itself on ethnostatism, collectivism and white supremacy.

Those are the core values on the Alt-right.

I don't, nor have ever supported any such ideals.

Buttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt I am an alt-right neo nazi just because.

Just because you use their language (eg “soy boy”) and agree with their wider principles (hatred of Muslims, overwhelming desire to **** of the libruls even if it harms you and yours, etc) if not the “core values” which you seem to have abritrarily chosen.

Nobody is saying you’re a neo-nazi btw

[houseboy]

It was a different world then Houseboy. Between 1945 and the early sixties over 2million young men did their National Service supplementing the regular military at a time when the Cold War was at its height. But for those (NS men you could well be speaking Russian today

Just a quick question for you mate: approximately how many times did we go to war with Russia in that period? Oh, that'll be none then.
Look, first off if you believe that then you have to believe that Russia were a genuine threat. To believe that you have to believe all the incredible propaganda being put out by Western governments at the time. Were Russia a threat? Maybe, but probably almost certainly not as big a threat as our governments made out.
Secondly it wasn't 'our boys', conscripted or otherwise, that kept the alleged Russian threat at bay it was nuclear weapons and the threat of mutually assured destruction (MAD as it was so rightly called). Neither side wanted to get involved in conflict because it would have only ended one way, bad for both sides.

[Lancasterclaret]

Houseboy, Russia was a credible threat to the west throughout that period.

Still is actually, but in a different way.

And because Nukes are so apocalyptic, it was the actual troops, guns, tanks, aircraft and ships of NATO that stopped Russia taking over Western Europe like it took over Eastern Europe.

[Healeywoodclaret]

You can't call yourself a free country while forcing people to servet the country. **** national service.

Politicians might say this a free country is it **** certainly there's no free speech anymore. And what's wrong with serving your country?

[Healeywoodclaret]

It's hardly outrage is it? It's a good guess, and I'm going to think the same.

It'll be your fat 55 year old retirees who bought their houses for 4 grand and sold them for 120,000 and then say that kids don't do anything these days and when they were young they had a job and a house and two cars and blah blah blah.

You sound bitter? Blame the Politicians if you feel you haven't had the same opportunities.

[ClaretAndJew]

Politicians might say this a free country is it **** certainly there's no free speech anymore. And what's wrong with serving your country?

What does it really mean to "serve your country".

Isn't paying taxes serving the country?

Are there no other ways to serve the country other than doing a bit of training on how to shoot a massive gun? I don't understand the concept of "serving the country"

I'm not trying to be facetious, I'm just curious.

Also we still have free speech, you just can't call someone a paki and think it's acceptable. And other examples.

[martin_p]

What the French are proposing sounds like a Duke of Edinburgh type thing for 16 year olds. Don’t get hung up on the words ‘National Service’, have a look at what is being proposed. It doesn’t seem like a bad idea on the face of it.

[ClaretAndJew]

You sound bitter? Blame the Politicians if you feel you haven't had the same opportunities.

I am better educated than my Mum was but my Mum bought a house for 9 grand in 1987 and has no mortgage.

This house is worth around 90+ grand now give or take.

My last job paid 17k per year. How would I manage to do what she did on that wage whilst also paying for food, council tax, rent/mortgage, water, gas, electric.

[houseboy]

Houseboy, Russia was a credible threat to the west throughout that period.

Still is actually, but in a different way.

And because Nukes are so apocalyptic, it was the actual troops, guns, tanks, aircraft and ships of NATO that stopped Russia taking over Western Europe like it took over Eastern Europe.

Sorry mate but that just isn't true. At that time the Russian conventional military was vastly superior to us and the Americans. Without the threat of nuclear war the Russians, had they wanted to, could have strolled virtually unopposed through Europe. I can't remember the exact figures but I pretty sure they had more tanks alone than we had soldiers. Whether or not they would have wanted to invade us is another question.

[martin_p]

Politicians might say this a free country is it **** certainly there's no free speech anymore. And what's wrong with serving your country?

You get locked up if you say you’re English these days!

[If it be your will]

.

[Lancasterclaret]

Sorry Houseboy, I'm not disputing that Russia had more tanks than it knew what to do with, but the NATO forces in the period had a massive technological advantage, which is even more pronounced now.

You can't compare (for example) an M1 Abrahams with a T-72, or a Sukhoi Frogger with an A-10, or a Stinger with a SAM-7 etc etc

The advantages where even more stark in the air, and the Warsaw Pact was hopelessly outclassed at sea.

I'm not saying it would have been a guaranteed NATO win, but it wasn't just about numbers.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Just because you use their language (eg “soy boy”) and agree with their wider principles (hatred of Muslims, overwhelming desire to **** of the libruls even if it harms you and yours, etc) if not the “core values” which you seem to have abritrarily chosen.

Nobody is saying you’re a neo-nazi btw

The alt right are just Neo-Nazis lite. They have all the same ideals the only difference as far as I can tell is that alt righters don't advocate genocide as a means to their ends.

Dont confuse anti-progressive **** posters and their jesting language as that of the alt rights. They are not the same at all, the alt right are a very sinister bunch.

[nil_desperandum]

I am better educated than my Mum was but my Mum bought a house for 9 grand in 1987 and has no mortgage.

This house is worth around 90+ grand now give or take.

My last job paid 17k per year. How would I manage to do what she did on that wage whilst also paying for food, council tax, rent/mortgage, water, gas, electric.

Just to back-up your point, 9K adjusted for inflation is about 23K in today's money, so that illustrates the problem young people have today.

[ClaretMoffitt]

On the contrary. The requirement that everyone must serve and defend their civilisation equally, regardless of wealth, status, class, educational attainment or whatever, as opposed to just paying for someone else to do it (i.e. 'National Service') is a very, very left wing view. That was my whole point. You're a proper lefty economically and now a proper lefty militarily. I've said it before - you'll be voting for Corbyn soon.

*I'm still not actually in favour of a national service, just saying the concept has philosophical merit.

Hah, while I enjoy your good natured taunts I don't think the strong traditional left built on nationalism and military might would associate itself too much with corbyn and his military policies

[evensteadiereddie]

Calm down soy boy, don't wet your little panties.

I rest my case, m'lud. The Muff is nothing but a complete coward, egging the others on from the sidelines.

[ClaretMoffitt]

I rest my case, m'lud. The Muff is nothing but a complete coward, egging the others on from the sidelines.

Not really I just reply to crap, insulting posts with crap insulting posts.

[evensteadiereddie]

No insults, buddy, the truth : you talk about being willing to do National Service, very safe in the knowledge that it can never happen.
Then, of course, your default prejudices come out and it's any and all folk you don't agree with who should be made to do it.
As I said, you're weak, petty and frightened of anyone different to you. Your inferiority complex and lack of real self-confidence really are astonishing.
It makes you look a cowardly ****.