Potential Water Shortage

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:22 pm

So, we've had some nice weather for a bit and it hasn't rained for a week or two, the obvious thing next is the hosepipe ban and pleas from the water companies to cut usage due to low water levels. Obviously this is no-one's fault and, with the exception of water companies not investing enough to stop the leaks that waste water, no-one is to blame.
Now, here's the thing, why, when this happens, do we not get a reduction in water rates? I don't mean not pay them at all, but a reduction of some kind. Water companies, the privatised, licence to print money organisations that should never have gone private, seem to be the only organisations that can still charge for failing to supply goods and services.
Analogies: I walk into my local corner shop and ask for a loaf, the shopkeeper says 'sorry, I don't have any because there is a shortage, but that'll be £1.50 please'. Or I drive to my local garage and they have no petrol but still want to charge me for the petrol they haven't got. It just wouldn't happen would it?

So why do the water companies get away with it?

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Won't bother me, plenty of lager in the fridge.

Garnerssoap · Post by **Garnerssoap** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:30 pm

I agree and would go further - the notion of charging people in the northwest of England for water on a metered basis is one of the greatest scam
s the 1%ers ever had the temerity to pull and get away with.
Sand to the Arabs and ice to Eskimos springs to mind

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:06 pm

I would say getting clean water on tap is the biggest bargain we get in life.

And I shop in the whoopsy aisle.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:08 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Won't bother me, plenty of lager in the fridge.

until you go back to the supermarket for some more and theres none left because of the co2 shortage!

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:18 pm

According to some who post on here England needs hundreds of thousands of people to come and live here each year sadly they don't bring their own water. Reservoirs are ok its the speed it is being used at that's the problem, only so much can be treated at once and it is still the same mains supplying say the Ribble Valley but just look at how many are branching off now to each new estate.
Water should be nationalised it is a vital resource and every penny that goes to share holders is a penny less spent on new reservoirs and infra structure.

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:24 pm

In my opinion all Utilities should be nationalised. The idea that a basic essential like water is used to make money for fat cat shareholders of the numerous water companies is wrong.

I also think that we need to embark on a building/maintenance programme nationally to ensure that leaks are kept to a minimum and that the system is future proofed to guarantee supply. And if that means building super size reservoirs then so be it.

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Beamish Towers is on a private supply. We have a large underground tank that is fed from a spring on the hillside. I took a peek at the rodding eye this week and the flow is still steady. According to one of the old timers at the bottom of the street, it didn’t stop flowing back in ‘76.
I think I might water the lawn this evening, after the England match.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:29 pm

houseboy wrote:So, we've had some nice weather for a bit and it hasn't rained for a week or two, the obvious thing next is the hosepipe ban and pleas from the water companies to cut usage due to low water levels. Obviously this is no-one's fault and, with the exception of water companies not investing enough to stop the leaks that waste water, no-one is to blame.
Now, here's the thing, why, when this happens, do we not get a reduction in water rates? I don't mean not pay them at all, but a reduction of some kind. Water companies, the privatised, licence to print money organisations that should never have gone private, seem to be the only organisations that can still charge for failing to supply goods and services.
Analogies: I walk into my local corner shop and ask for a loaf, the shopkeeper says 'sorry, I don't have any because there is a shortage, but that'll be £1.50 please'. Or I drive to my local garage and they have no petrol but still want to charge me for the petrol they haven't got. It just wouldn't happen would it?

So why do the water companies get away with it?

I’m not sure what they are getting away with. Suggesting reductions for non-essential usage is a sensible step to take when in the middle of a heatwave.

If your supply was affected, i.e. you had no access to water, you would receive a rebate and you would also be set up with emergency access via bottled water or a stand pipe. If there is a shortage of bread at your local supermarket, the outcome isn’t being charged for something that you don’t receive, it’s not being able to purchase said item.

Companies spend millions on addressing leaks and being able to move water to various parts of their network - I’m sure they could spend more but it’s a huge job and particularly difficult in somewhere like London. Not only that but you’re not just paying for something that falls from the sky, you’re paying for surface water drainage, sewerage and water treatment / purification.

Compare your £1.50 / £2.00 bottle of water to the cost per unit from United Utilities (or whoever your provider is) and you should start to see it’s not quite as bad as you make out.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:34 pm

A) shower
B)if it's yellow let it mellow,pinched from meet the fockers. What a waste flushing after every pee.

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:45 pm

Corky wrote:...a basic essential like water....

So is food. Should all the food companies be nationalised?

BTW, water from UU is £1.78 per CUBIC METRE.
Incredible bargain.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:42 pm

There was a thread recently about 1976 summer but I don't remember there being stand pipes that year where I lived then.

I can remember there being stand pipes one year when I was a kid in Burnley, I'm guessing latish 1950s because I was old enough to be sent with a bucket to get water.
I cant remember how long it lasted but we had a stand pipe on a street corner about 100 yards from my parent's house and for a fair few days, had to get all the water we used via filling bucket & carting them back to the house. As a kid I quite enjoyed that but it'd cause mayhem now I think, albeit the exercise would be quite good for a few people and it can be quite sociable around the standpipe.
That was all well before privatisation.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:07 pm

We have plenty over here. Want me to send you a gallon or so?

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:10 pm

Its probably stronger than than that Molson shite.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 pm

You think Molson's bad, Electro? Have you ever tried Labatt's Blue Pony Pee?

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:18 pm

Phook me a water shortage .. Every reservoir in the north was full to the brim this spring ..

Claretforever · Post by **Claretforever** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:52 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Phook me a water shortage .. Every reservoir in the north was full to the brim this spring ..

I don’t think the reservoir levels are a current problem, it’s more the boreholes with a lack of investment and maintenance.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:53 pm

Claretforever wrote:I don’t think the reservoir levels are a current problem, it’s more the boreholes with a lack of investment and maintenance.

Okay I'm sorry..

HOPE AND GLORY · Post by **HOPE AND GLORY** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:55 pm

I spend my united utilities dividend on my season ticket

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:00 pm

HOPE AND GLORY wrote:I spend my united utilities dividend on my season ticket

Water waste of money..

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:03 pm

ontario claret wrote:You think Molson's bad, Electro? Have you ever tried Labatt's Blue Pony Pee?

I have and it gave me the worst hang-over of my life. Dreadful stuff.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:37 pm

Imagine if immigrants weren't here using up the water. We'd not have to worry about a shortage.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:46 pm

Ireland is facing a similar problem.

They've come up with a simple solution.

They're going to start diluting it.

kentonclaret · Post by **kentonclaret** » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:48 pm

Of course there is the potential for a water shortage they've tipped most of it on to Saddleworth Moor.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:30 am

DCWat wrote:I’m not sure what they are getting away with. Suggesting reductions for non-essential usage is a sensible step to take when in the middle of a heatwave.

If your supply was affected, i.e. you had no access to water, you would receive a rebate and you would also be set up with emergency access via bottled water or a stand pipe. If there is a shortage of bread at your local supermarket, the outcome isn’t being charged for something that you don’t receive, it’s not being able to purchase said item.

Companies spend millions on addressing leaks and being able to move water to various parts of their network - I’m sure they could spend more but it’s a huge job and particularly difficult in somewhere like London. Not only that but you’re not just paying for something that falls from the sky, you’re paying for surface water drainage, sewerage and water treatment / purification.

Compare your £1.50 / £2.00 bottle of water to the cost per unit from United Utilities (or whoever your provider is) and you should start to see it’s not quite as bad as you make out.

Point one: last time I had to use stand pipes I received no rebate.
Point two: if there is a hose pipe ban it is enforceable by fines, if people have spent good money on their gardens and cannot water them adequately things will die and money has been wasted. It is not always practical to use a watering can. With regard to bottled water being handed out it is not the same as it flowing from your taps is it. It has to be collected and got home and you cannot practically bath in bottled water can you?
Point three: they do spend money fixing leaks but have been roundly criticised for putting profit before consumers and simply not doing enough.
As for your final point about comparing the cost of bottled water, where do you buy yours, Selfridges? I would never buy bottled water ever but my wife does and it can be got for 17p per large bottle at Asda and Tesco (to name just two).

The fact is water should NEVER have been privatised. To hand a life essential product over to private localised monopolies was always fraught with problems, greed being one of them. Water should be state owned and run on a not-for-profit basis, making just enough to re-invest in the infrastructure without costing taxpayers money.

We can live without mobile phones and the internet, we can do without satellite TV. We can shop around for our gas or electricity supplier or indeed any of the other services, but water is life essential, without it we would all die, and as such it is far too important a commodity to be in the hands of private monopolies. Until they ever find a practical way of allowing us to shop around it should not be in private hands.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:40 am

Water water everywhere but not enough to use.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:03 am

Privatisation of water hasn't made it rain less!

You should like a deranged left winger!

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Actually, there isn't a water shortage, as such, in the north west. The infrastructure can't cope with demand. Never mind though - the shareholders must come first.

Privatisation, eh? What a load of old pony. I can't even change my supplier. Like I said - the shareholders must come first.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:37 pm

houseboy wrote:Point one: last time I had to use stand pipes I received no rebate.
Point two: if there is a hose pipe ban it is enforceable by fines, if people have spent good money on their gardens and cannot water them adequately things will die and money has been wasted. It is not always practical to use a watering can. With regard to bottled water being handed out it is not the same as it flowing from your taps is it. It has to be collected and got home and you cannot practically bath in bottled water can you?
Point three: they do spend money fixing leaks but have been roundly criticised for putting profit before consumers and simply not doing enough.
As for your final point about comparing the cost of bottled water, where do you buy yours, Selfridges? I would never buy bottled water ever but my wife does and it can be got for 17p per large bottle at Asda and Tesco (to name just two).

The fact is water should NEVER have been privatised. To hand a life essential product over to private localised monopolies was always fraught with problems, greed being one of them. Water should be state owned and run on a not-for-profit basis, making just enough to re-invest in the infrastructure without costing taxpayers money.

We can live without mobile phones and the internet, we can do without satellite TV. We can shop around for our gas or electricity supplier or indeed any of the other services, but water is life essential, without it we would all die, and as such it is far too important a commodity to be in the hands of private monopolies. Until they ever find a practical way of allowing us to shop around it should not be in private hands.

The monopolies will stop in a few years when competition is brought in for domestic customers. It’s already started for commercial.

I don’t know about UU but YW has done a hell of a lot to sort out past issues and they provide a great service from my experience and will give rebates due to interruption.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:44 pm

DCWat wrote:The monopolies will stop in a few years when competition is brought in for domestic customers. It’s already started for commercial.

I don’t know about UU but YW has done a hell of a lot to sort out past issues and they provide a great service from my experience and will give rebates due to interruption.

If the monopolies end then things should improve methinks. Where I live there are always problems with water supply for some reason, with tankers often parked on the edge of our estate pumping water in the system while the latest problem is dealt with. But it needs an end to the monopolies to change things. How hard can it be to make money selling a life essential product when your customers can't go anywhere else, it's a capitalists wet dream come true.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:48 pm

starting_11 wrote:Privatisation of water hasn't made it rain less!

You should like a deranged left winger!

Two things bud: I did say the shortage of water was no-ones fault and went to great pains to say no-one was to blame, I was simply saying they should reduce fees if they can't provide that which they are paid to provide. See my grocer analogy.
Secondly could you repeat your last sentence in English, it doesn't make any sense.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 pm

starting_11 wrote:Privatisation of water hasn't made it rain less!

You should like a deranged left winger!

It has however made the most important reason for repairing leaks be cost effectiveness and not conservation.

But at least you've acknowledged its raining less. Why do you think that might be?

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:06 pm

Cos its summer.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:09 pm

a tiny little island having a water shortage in 2018 is beyond scandalous

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Imagine if immigrants weren't here using up the water. We'd not have to worry about a shortage.

Spot on IT..

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:02 pm

houseboy wrote:If the monopolies end then things should improve methinks. Where I live there are always problems with water supply for some reason, with tankers often parked on the edge of our estate pumping water in the system while the latest problem is dealt with. But it needs an end to the monopolies to change things. How hard can it be to make money selling a life essential product when your customers can't go anywhere else, it's a capitalists wet dream come true.

It is changing. The water supply market has recently been opened up for competition in the same way the Electricity supply was opened paving the way for IDNO’s.

As with electricity the big water networks are slow on the uptake and are doing everything they can to dodge around new legislation. Change will come, they have no choice.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:13 am

ClaretEngineer wrote:It is changing. The water supply market has recently been opened up for competition in the same way the Electricity supply was opened paving the way for IDNO’s.

As with electricity the big water networks are slow on the uptake and are doing everything they can to dodge around new legislation. Change will come, they have no choice.

I'm sure they will resist it to the very end but the changes can't come too soon. The whole situation has been wrong from it's very inception. Some things are far too important to be left in the hands of the private sector and water is the classic case. At least, as you say, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

ClaretEngineer · Post by **ClaretEngineer** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:50 am

houseboy wrote:I'm sure they will resist it to the very end but the changes can't come too soon. The whole situation has been wrong from it's very inception. Some things are far too important to be left in the hands of the private sector and water is the classic case. At least, as you say, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

The company I work for is multi-utility and they’ve been fighting for years to break the monopoly on water. At the moment the regional water authorities are doing everything they can to give us a bad name, by being late with their obligations. They get fined for being late, but they don’t seem to care.

They will when we and others start providing a better and more efficient service.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:44 am

ClaretEngineer wrote:The company I work for is multi-utility and they’ve been fighting for years to break the monopoly on water. At the moment the regional water authorities are doing everything they can to give us a bad name, by being late with their obligations. They get fined for being late, but they don’t seem to care.

They will when we and others start providing a better and more efficient service.

This is my point, they don't mind the fines because they are awash with money due to the fact that people cannot go anywhere else for something they have to have. Ludicrous. The sooner it is all blown apart the better.

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:51 am

United Utilities make about £350 million profit on revenues of £800 million. Their CEO, Steve Mogford earned £2,310,000 last year. They also lose 439,000,000 litres of water a day through leaks.

Hosepipe ban my arse.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:43 pm

I wonder if vegasclaret could tell us the last time it rained in Las Vegas.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:50 pm

Sproggy wrote:United Utilities make about £350 million profit on revenues of £800 million. Their CEO, Steve Mogford earned £2,310,000 last year. They also lose 439,000,000 litres of water a day through leaks.

Hosepipe ban my arse.

That's about 4.46% of all usage.

Imagine it 4.46% of all the water you used at home ended up on your floor.

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:54 pm

Privatised water companies couldn’t run a bath.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:04 am

Water ban called for now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45043191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;