Trump destroys Mays soft Brexit..

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:41 pm

He said forget a lucrative US trade deal if she keeps us tied to the EU ! you could say that’s her 3rd way rule book right out of the window..

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:43 pm

A bit of an idiot as a man trump, but as president so far hes done some good IMO.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:45 pm

Love trumps hate Trump.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:46 pm

Funny. When Obama gave his backing to Remain during the referendum campaign, the Brexiters cried foul about a foreign leader interfering with UK domestic affairs.

How come it’s suddenly OK?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:49 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:He said forget a lucrative US trade deal if she keeps us tied to the EU ! you could say that’s her 3rd way rule book right out of the window..

There's not really much that Trump does that doesn't advance Russian interests, so is it any real surprise that he'd come out with this?

The EU matters more to us right now. Trump will be gone soon, but the EU will remain long after he's served his last day as Putin's US president.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:50 pm

scouseclaret wrote:Funny. When Obama gave his backing to Remain during the referendum campaign, the Brexiters cried foul about a foreign leader interfering with UK domestic affairs.

How come it’s suddenly OK?

Good point, well made.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Unlike Obama I think DT means it...

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 pm

Japebe43 wrote:A bit of an idiot as a man trump, but as president so far hes done some good IMO.

Name some things good he's done that makes it OK that he supported a paedophile for a Senate seat.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:55 pm

"Make America great again" by giving the UK a preferential trade deal?

Just how much do you hate the EU?

Enough to read that and think "You know, of course they will give us a good trade deal"?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:"Make America great again" by giving the UK a preferential trade deal?

Just how much do you hate the EU?

Enough to read that and think "You know, of course they will give us a good trade deal"?

Don't try logic with these people. You're wasting your time.

They really believe Trump is working only in the best interests of Americans, while at the same time accepting that he would deliberately sabotage American-UK trade negotiations just because we're friends with the EU.

If it's not clear to these people who exactly Trump is serving then it'll never be clear to them.

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Name some things good he's done that makes it OK that he supported a paedophile for a Senate seat.

Roy Moore hasn't even had charges brought against him, pretty sure if he was convicted of anything like that Trump pulls his support. Due process is still a thing. I know it must be hard to swallow that people aren't convicted on the weight of your mighty opinions.

In terms of Trump achievements though, just some highlights:

Tax Reform Bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts
1.7 mil new jobs
GDP increase to above 3%
Record Dow Jones High
17 year high in economic confidence
Withdrew from Trans-Pacific Partnership
ISIS losing virtually all of it's territories
Officially recognised Jerusalem as Israel's Capital
Appointed Supreme Court Gorsuch

There's plenty more, some listed here: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year ... s-repealed

You don't have to like them but plenty of other people do.

Sit back, take a chill pill, maybe a dose of reality, and enjoy the next 6 years bud.

Japebe43 · Post by **Japebe43** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:37 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Name some things good he's done that makes it OK that he supported a paedophile for a Senate seat.

Woah.. To controversial a discussion that for me IT.. I'm a light hearted kind of fella..

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:38 pm

As an aside, has anyone got any experience of selling stuff into America? It’s a nightmare and I can’t see a lucrative trade deal improving things.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:17 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:Roy Moore hasn't even had charges brought against him, pretty sure if he was convicted of anything like that Trump pulls his support. Due process is still a thing. I know it must be hard to swallow that people aren't convicted on the weight of your mighty opinions.

In terms of Trump achievements though, just some highlights:

Tax Reform Bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts
1.7 mil new jobs
GDP increase to above 3%
Record Dow Jones High
17 year high in economic confidence
Withdrew from Trans-Pacific Partnership
ISIS losing virtually all of it's territories
Officially recognised Jerusalem as Israel's Capital
Appointed Supreme Court Gorsuch

There's plenty more, some listed here: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year ... s-repealed

You don't have to like them but plenty of other people do.

Sit back, take a chill pill, maybe a dose of reality, and enjoy the next 6 years bud.

Isn't it funny how most of those things are things that Obama is responsible for? Take the economy for example, the first time Trump signed anything that'd have any kind of effect on it was the Tax bill, which is exploding the deficit Obama worked so hard to reduce. And how's the economic effect of Trump's other meddlings been? You know, those tariffs he's enacting for no reason?

Trump's also just following Obama's plan on ISIS too. In fact he even went and said to the Pentagon to come up with a plan that wasn't Obama's so that he could take credit for it.

1.7 mil new jobs

What's he done to create those jobs other than just dine out on Obama's healthy economy? What bills did he sign that created those jobs that weren't just a continuation of his predecessor's work?

Really the only two things Trump has done from that like is withdraw from TPP, recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital for no good reason, and appoint Gorsuch to the bench which isn't even an achievement.

Wanna take another swing?

paulus the woodgnome · Post by **paulus the woodgnome** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:27 am

Imploding Turtle wrote: Good point, well made.

We've voted, so it's too late.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:37 am

Turtle, you really have started waffling a lot recently. I used to read some of your shorter posts and thought 'fair enough, he's made a well thought out point, now it's all turning into waffle.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:39 am

Vino blanco wrote:Turtle, you really have started waffling a lot recently. I used to read some of your shorter posts and thought 'fair enough, he's made a well thought out point, now it's all turning into waffle.

Nah. You didn't. You'd just saying that to make yourself seem reasonable.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:41 am

Gotcher!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:48 am

Some people on here will still be telling us how awesome he is and how much he's achieved with his straight-talking approach later when he spits in the Queen's tea and makes her drink it.
It's becoming more obvious by the day that he's basically a Russian agent.
The whole thing is like a bad joke, he deliberately destroys every meaningful treaty the US has ever made while Russia simultaneously starts a new cold war with Europe, beginning by poisoning people in the UK.
I bet my house that next week Trump agrees to recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea, he was trying to get them admitted back to the G7 a few weeks ago.
Is everyone blind?
Why doesn't the US do something about this?

Socrates · Post by **Socrates** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:12 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:Due process is still a thing.

Unless you’re brown folk trying to get into America. He tweeted three or four times this week about getting rid of due process for them.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:41 am

dushanbe wrote:As an aside, has anyone got any experience of selling stuff into America? It’s a nightmare and I can’t see a lucrative trade deal improving things.

That's not surprising after we had their pants down with London Bridge.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:43 am

The buthurt is real for the idealists on here.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 am

Trump has destroyed nothing. He’s mouthing off for his mate BoJo. A couple of more reprehensible sub humans it is difficult to find.
The good old US of A have always had Britain over a barrel with pants around ankles. They screwed us over WW11 and for many years after whilst quite happily paying to rebuild Germany and Japan for their own long term business interests.
They see themselves as world police whilst in reality being the cause of more death and destruction around the globe than people will admit to.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:55 am

"Trump will be gone soon"

Has any date been given for this ? Within weeks of being elected wasn't it ?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:56 am

This is a must read from the Irish times this week. Apologies if someone already posted it.

“To grasp what is going on in the world right now, we need to reflect on two things. One is that we are in a phase of trial runs. The other is that what is being trialled is fascism – a word that should be used carefully but not shirked when it is so clearly on the horizon. Forget “post-fascist” – what we are living with is pre-fascism.

It is easy to dismiss Donald Trump as an ignoramus, not least because he is. But he has an acute understanding of one thing: test marketing. He created himself in the gossip pages of the New York tabloids, where celebrity is manufactured by planting outrageous stories that you can later confirm or deny depending on how they go down. And he recreated himself in reality TV where the storylines can be adjusted according to the ratings. Put something out there, pull it back, adjust, go again.

Fascism doesn’t arise suddenly in an existing democracy. It is not easy to get people to give up their ideas of freedom and civility. You have to do trial runs that, if they are done well, serve two purposes. They get people used to something they may initially recoil from; and they allow you to refine and calibrate. This is what is happening now and we would be fools not to see it.
One of the basic tools of fascism is the rigging of elections – we’ve seen that trialled in the election of Trump, in the Brexit referendum and (less successfully) in the French presidential elections. Another is the generation of tribal identities, the division of society into mutually exclusive polarities.

Fascism does not need a majority – it typically comes to power with about forty percent support and then uses control and intimidation to consolidate that power. So it doesn’t matter if most people hate you, as long as your forty percent is fanatically committed. That’s been tested out too.

And fascism of course needs a propaganda machine so effective that it creates for its followers a universe of “alternative facts” impervious to unwanted realities. Again, the testing for this is very far advanced.
But when you’ve done all this, there is a crucial next step, usually the trickiest of all. You have to undermine moral boundaries, inure people to the acceptance of acts of extreme cruelty. Like hounds, people have to be blooded. They have to be given the taste for savagery.

Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group. This allows the members of that group to be dehumanised. Once that has been achieved, you can gradually up the ante, working through the stages from breaking windows to extermination.

People have to be given the taste for savagery. Fascism does this by building up the sense of threat from a despised out-group.

It is this next step that is being test-marketed now. It is being done in Italy by the far-right leader and minister for the interior Matteo Salvini. How would it go down if we turn away boatloads of refugees? Let’s do a screening of the rough-cut of registering all the Roma and see what buttons the audience will press. And it has been trialled by Trump: let’s see how my fans feel about crying babies in cages. I wonder how it will go down with Rupert Murdoch.

To see, as most commentary has done, the deliberate traumatisation of migrant children as a “mistake” by Trump is culpable naivety. It is a trial run – and the trial has been a huge success. Trump’s claim last week that immigrants “infest” the US is a test-marketing of whether his fans are ready for the next step-up in language, which is of course “vermin”.

And the generation of images of toddlers being dragged from their parents is a test of whether those words can be turned into sounds and pictures. It was always an experiment – it ended (but only in part) because the results were in.

And the results are quite satisfactory. There is good news on two fronts. First, Rupert Murdoch is happy with it – his Fox News mouthpieces outdid themselves in barbaric crassness: making animal noises at the mention of a Down syndrome child, describing crying children as actors. They went the whole swinish hog: even the brown babies are liars. Those sobs of anguish are typical of the manipulative behaviour of the strangers coming to infest us – should we not fear a race whose very infants can be so devious?

Second, the hardcore fans loved it: Fifty-eight percent of Republicans are in favour of this brutality. Trump’s overall approval ratings are up to 42.5 per cent.
This is greatly encouraging for the pre-fascist agenda. The blooding process has begun within the democratic world. The muscles that the propaganda machines need for defending the indefensible are being toned up. Millions and millions of Europeans and Americans are learning to think the unthinkable.

So what if those black people drown in the sea? So what if those brown toddlers are scarred for life? They have already, in their minds, crossed the boundaries of morality. They are, like Macbeth, “yet but young in deed”. But the tests will be refined, the results analysed, the methods perfected, the messages sharpened. And then the deeds can follow."

Let us protect our freedom with all our democratic power, and continue to be brave with everything we must face.”

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:05 am

People on the streets protesting waving banners basically obstructing every day life because Donald Trump is here, I mean really, like he gives a ****. And the only time id give a **** if Donald Trump was in the UK is if he and is ******* cavalcade parked in front of my drive.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:09 am

Whether you believe it or not that's a well argued opinion.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:19 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:"Trump will be gone soon"

Has any date been given for this ? Within weeks of being elected wasn't it ?

You made that up.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:29 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Some people on here will still be telling us how awesome he is and how much he's achieved with his straight-talking approach later when he spits in the Queen's tea and makes her drink it.
It's becoming more obvious by the day that he's basically a Russian agent.
The whole thing is like a bad joke, he deliberately destroys every meaningful treaty the US has ever made while Russia simultaneously starts a new cold war with Europe, beginning by poisoning people in the UK.
I bet my house that next week Trump agrees to recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea, he was trying to get them admitted back to the G7 a few weeks ago.
Is everyone blind?
Why doesn't the US do something about this?

The US is doing something about it. It's being investigated, and the fact that Trump is so **** scared of what the investigation either has already found or is going to find that he's managed to find one of the few judges in America that has expressed an opinion he like on whether or not a sitting president can be indicted, to be his nominee for Kennedy's SCOTUS seat.

It's not just Trump that's **** scared of it either, it's almost all the congressional Republican leadership too.

We just have to wait until Mueller completes his investigation. If he finds nothing then fair enough. But I think we all know he's found something given how scared everyone involved in the Trump campaign is, and how much they're trying to undermine it. Otherwise why would they undermine it? If Trump did nothing wrong then why wouldn't he want to let the investigation run in order to show that he did nothing wrong?

Just be patient. Either Mueller's investigation will conclude and it'll show us what Trump was scared of, or Trump will panic and fire Rosenstein and order his replacement to fire Mueller, which will all but end Trump's presidency (assuming enough Republicans choose country over party, which is a very big assumption).

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:47 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:In terms of Trump achievements though, just some highlights:

1.7 mil new jobs

In a country of 309 million.

In the UK for 2017 our jobs increased 427,000 with a population of 63 million. And we have Brexit!

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:48 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:Either Mueller's investigation will conclude and it'll show us what Trump was scared of, or Trump will panic and fire Rosenstein and order his replacement to fire Mueller, which will all but end Trump's presidency (assuming enough Republicans choose country over party, which is a very big assumption).

I doubt it, he's even stacked the supreme court in his favour and already stated can pardon himself. The final roll of the dice he's required to do if he finds himself exposed is to decry fake news and try to rally the half of the country that supports him into fighting the other half.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:Roy Moore hasn't even had charges brought against him, pretty sure if he was convicted of anything like that Trump pulls his support. Due process is still a thing. I know it must be hard to swallow that people aren't convicted on the weight of your mighty opinions.

In terms of Trump achievements though, just some highlights:

Tax Reform Bill providing $5.5 billion in cuts
1.7 mil new jobs
GDP increase to above 3%
Record Dow Jones High
17 year high in economic confidence
Withdrew from Trans-Pacific Partnership
ISIS losing virtually all of it's territories
Officially recognised Jerusalem as Israel's Capital
Appointed Supreme Court Gorsuch

There's plenty more, some listed here: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/year ... s-repealed

You don't have to like them but plenty of other people do.

Sit back, take a chill pill, maybe a dose of reality, and enjoy the next 6 years bud.

You missed the part about putting little kids in cages.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:49 am

All Trump has really done - albeit in the most ham-firsted, undiplomatic way possible - is confirm what was already known - you cannot have a free market deal on food stuffs with the EU, and also have one with the US. The regulatory standards required to tie into the EU market on food are much higher and different from the US ones and the two cannot be reconciled. And given that our food supply chain is totally and utterly integrated with Europe, no credible expert thinks its plausible not to have a deal with the EU on food.

Which means it is, and always was, all but impossible for us to have a trade deal - "lucrative" or otherwise, not sure anyone has explained what that means, or who it would be lucrative for - with the US on food without the US making concessions it is highly unlikely to make. This isn't a problem though, because when the British people are asked if they'd want to lower food regulatory standards in this country (as would be required to facilitate a US trade deal), they reject it out of hand in every opinion poll.

The comprehensive US trade deal has always been a bit of an illusion once you got into the detail, which of course no one in a position of power has bothered to do.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 am

I bet May is delighted she invited her ‘trusted allie’ over. Maybe she should have listened to the libtards and not invited him.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:17 am

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:I doubt it, he's even stacked the supreme court in his favour and already stated can pardon himself. The final roll of the dice he's required to do if he finds himself exposed is to decry fake news and try to rally the half of the country that supports him into fighting the other half.

He hasn't quite stacked it in his favour. Court stacking is different than just putting conservative justices on the bench. He's replaced one conservative with a conservative, and is trying to replace another with another. Corruptly, probably.

If he was stacking the court he'd be adding judges without replacing any. There's nothing to say that SCOTUS has an upper limit of 9 justices, so if congress allowed him he could just pile on the conservative justices that he likes and that will allow him to do anything. Congress isn't quite at that level of obvious totalitarianism just yet, but who knows what'll happen if the Republicans actually pick up seats this November with their favourable Senate electoral map, and heavily gerrymandered advantage in the House.

I think he might also be able to mace recess appointments to the court without congressional approval to stack it even if the Democrats take control of Congress in November, so again, who knows what'll happen. But currently he's not 'stacking' the court in the way 'stacking' is usually used. And just by giving it a conservative or liberal bias isn't anything previous presidents haven't done, and is in fact quite uncontroversial. What's controversial is how it's being done. The seat stolen from Obama by Mitch McConnell who point blank refused to even have hearings about Obama's nominee Merrick Garland was unprecedented (Garland was described by conservatives as a "consensus nominee"). And now the way Trump appears to have gone about nominating Kavanaugh is probably corrupt beyond belief. But his supporters won't care, because he's spent two years training them to accept his blatant corruption, and they do.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:24 am

scouseclaret wrote:Funny. When Obama gave his backing to Remain during the referendum campaign, the Brexiters cried foul about a foreign leader interfering with UK domestic affairs.

How come it’s suddenly OK?

This really can't be pointed out often enough. Good luck in getting an answer, though.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:39 am

scouseclaret wrote:Funny. When Obama gave his backing to Remain during the referendum campaign, the Brexiters cried foul about a foreign leader interfering with UK domestic affairs.

How come it’s suddenly OK?

And equally funnily, when Trump gives his backing to Brexit after the referendum, the Remainers cry foul about a foreign leader interfering with domestic affairs.

How come it's suddenly not OK?

The technical difference, aside from the partisan prejudice, is that Obama interfered during an election campaign and Trump didn't. The referendum campaign had a specific time period in which referendum rules apply, eg. relating to spending money. That's why the government could spend more than the referendum campaign budget on sending out a pro-remain leaflet to every household, because they did it a day or two before the official referendum campaign started. Referendum rules are designed to be fair to both sides and give both sides equal finance and airtime during the course of the campaign; of course, those rules don't apply to US presidents, so no-one was going to censure the Remain campaign for using Obama. But now the campaign is over, the referendum campaign rules have no relevance.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:43 am

dsr wrote:And equally funnily, when Trump gives his backing to Brexit after the referendum, the Remainers cry foul about a foreign leader interfering with domestic affairs.

...

Lol. what? Where? Remain leaders, like how Leave leaders did? How the Leave tabloids did?

Are you making things up again?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:55 am

The technical difference, aside from the partisan prejudice, is that Obama interfered during an election campaign and Trump didn't. The referendum campaign had a specific time period in which referendum rules apply, eg. relating to spending money. That's why the government could spend more than the referendum campaign budget on sending out a pro-remain leaflet to every household, because they did it a day or two before the official referendum campaign started. Referendum rules are designed to be fair to both sides and give both sides equal finance and airtime during the course of the campaign; of course, those rules don't apply to US presidents, so no-one was going to censure the Remain campaign for using Obama. But now the campaign is over, the referendum campaign rules have no relevance.

So is Obama intervention better or worse than the overspending by all the vote leave organisations, all proved to be run together and to be funded together, in direct contravention of EU electoral law?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:01 am

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ypKdYedDarGW?t=42m16s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump balloon flies!

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:02 am

https://www.facebook.com/colbertlatesho ... 350570378/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:09 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:https://www.pscp.tv/w/1ypKdYedDarGW?t=42m16s

Trump balloon flies!

Added for Moffitt in case this news sets him off again

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:15 am

: trump.JPG (160.42 KiB) Viewed 2617 times

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:26 am

Posted below on the "David Davies" thread. I can't keep up with all the threads we've got going on "Brexit and other politics."

CrosspoolClarets wrote:
Unprecedented interview in the Sun tomorrow with Trump.

The front page looks tasty. May has wrecked Brexit. The US trade deal is off. Boris would make a great PM. Etc.

This makes Obama’s back of the queue intervention look minuscule by comparison. Never seen anything like it before. Amazing if May can survive this, he’s trying to finish her off. Even if he’s a numpty, he’s still the most powerful politician in the world.

Lancasterclaret wrote:
But does it bother you though?

People went mental when Obama tried it, will they show the same reaction if its Trump?

Somehow I seriously doubt it sadly.

1) Trump: surely it should be a "badge of honour" to be called out by Trump, and not a threat position. POTUS can only fire his own advisors, not the leaders of any other countries.

What would we prefer: PDT telling TM what to do and she does it, or PDT telling TM what to do and she doesn't follow Trump's advice?

2) Obama was seeking to tell the UK electorate how to vote. I assume we should be concerned about "crossing the line" in another countries democratic process. I believe there have been concerns in one or two countries that Russia may have interfered via social media.

Of course, in the past few weeks there have been reports that David Cameron asked Obama to make his "back of the queue" comments. Cameron was wrong to do that. Obama was also wrong to say what he said.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:So is Obama intervention better or worse than the overspending by all the vote leave organisations, all proved to be run together and to be funded together, in direct contravention of EU electoral law?

We did all this before. The Brexit side spent £8m, the Remain side spent £16m, but the Brexit side breached a rule while the Remain side worked round the rule and so the election was skewed towards Brexit. We know.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 am

dsr wrote:But now the campaign is over, the referendum campaign rules have no relevance.

The referendum campaign rules had no relevance during the campaign for Vote Leave and Leave.EU. Both were hit with fines for breaking electoral law.

https://www.ft.com/content/9bb7e9fc-7f5 ... daf11b720d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/ ... estigation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:29 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:So is Obama intervention better or worse than the overspending by all the vote leave organisations, all proved to be run together and to be funded together, in direct contravention of EU electoral law?

Obama intervention worse, surely?

The leave campaign alongside the remain campaign alongside the government's "EU remain or leave Information" were all internal matters.

Whether it is Trump or Obama before him or any other external body it is always sensible to take a neutral position on the democratic process in another country.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:33 am

Paul Waine wrote:Obama intervention worse, surely?

The leave campaign alongside the remain campaign alongside the government's "EU remain or leave Information" were all internal matters.

Whether it is Trump or Obama before him or any other external body it is always sensible to take a neutral position on the democratic process in another country.

When people on one side of the campaign are saying it'll be easy and quick to negotiate a trade deal with the US, why can't the US correct them? If someone's lying about you you're well within your rights to set things straight.

If the leave campaign didn't like Obama correcting them then perhaps they shouldn't have brought the US into the argument?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 am

Lets get this straight chaps

I respect you both because you can string sentences together that make sense and its good fun debating with you and you both have deeply held views on Brexit (which again, I respect)

I'd prefer it if no US President got involved in the internal affairs of the UK (the referendum)

Now did President Obama's intervention cause the same affect on the UK democratic process as Vote Leaves overspending and dodgy funding?

I'd say its was clear it didn't.

Now Trump has weighed in with both barrels just as the UK finally gets a position on the EU withdrawal.

Its not what you want, its not what I want but its a negotiated position within the British Government who have been democratically elected to do exactly what they are doing.

Trump wants to rip that up and reckons Boris would make a good PM, and he's said that just before he meets the PM.

Now I get that Trump says all sorts of ****, but that is absolutely out of order.

Surely you can see that?

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 am

don't see what the problem is with either obama or trump saying what they have.

they're both saying the same thing after all, that brexit is a complete **** up and we won't be getting a good trade deal from the US.