Brexit Food Shortages

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:29 pm

Cheers guys

I'm not disagreeing that unscrupulous business owners take advantage btw, but its how prevalent it is.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:29 pm

Somethingfishy wrote:I think it's a hint to the Polish workers willing to work for less and so the unscrupulous business owners around will take advantage of the lower labour costs. Thus leaving the local population priced out or not even considered...knock on effect lower living standards. Basic economics. Fantastic if you happen to be a local private business owner and willing to risk doing it..not so good if you are looking for a decent living wage for an everyday local family. It does happen and i have heard of places where it is happening but it is not a massively prevalant thing.

It happens more than some people imagine but it's kept discreet for mutual obvious reasons, not just that, recreation breaks more likely to be trimmed whilst working, PPE equipment health & safety regs not that strict, some are hardly likely to complain to their unite rep.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:30 pm

Siddo wrote:To quote Alistair Campbell, it didn't say food shortages on the side of that big red bus, did it?

It would do me and a few other UK citizens a favour

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:32 pm

It is a rather large issue in Lincolnshire. EU migrants have undercut the local population for the crop picking. Farmers have thought Kerching. The locals have been left to either work for less than they need or no work at all. A major reason Lincolnshire is a large leave vote area.

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:55 pm

recruit via European agencies, pay lower rates?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:52 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Or Pendle business owners who happen to be Burnley fans worried their could lose some of their polish workforce & have to actually employ a British national who'd probably command & expect a higher rate of pay.

You seem to have weird disproportionate obsession with the local Polish community.
I demonstrated to you earlier in this thread that immigrants from Poland make up 0.3% of the local population.
If 3 in 1000 are causing so much economic grief then they must be an incredibly powerful and influential group.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:59 am

Perhaps it’s time to close this thread. You all seem Poles apart !

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:07 am

This all seems to be an issue with the UK government not enforcing employment legislation and business owners not following UK law. Why is leaving the EU the correct solution to these domestic issues?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:15 am

nil_desperandum wrote:You seem to have weird disproportionate obsession with the local Polish community.
I demonstrated to you earlier in this thread that immigrants from Poland make up 0.3% of the local population.
If 3 in 1000 are causing so much economic grief then they must be an incredibly powerful and influential group.

I remember that well (few) & also at that point within a very very short period of time I realised that I was unable to take you seriously on any level.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:23 am

nil_desperandum wrote:You seem to have weird disproportionate obsession with the local Polish community.
I demonstrated to you earlier in this thread that immigrants from Poland make up 0.3% of the local population.
If 3 in 1000 are causing so much economic grief then they must be an incredibly powerful and influential group.

Let's look at these figures.

1 the 0.3%. Where is it from?

2. What's the percentage for Lithuanian, Latvian Romanian because I see car number plates from many eastern European countries.

3. What's the total%, from Europe not just poland because people tend to lazily label all eastern European as "polish"

4, you quote "1000" as the "local population"

5 the " Local population" includes retired from the work force, pensioners.

6. "The local population" includes children and people who have not entered the jobs market.

So, if you able to provide a figure for the Polish workers locally, what's the percentage of European workers who are here due to free movement of people, as a percentage of the LOCAL WORK FORCE? Not as a percentage of the disingenuous 1000 of the"Local population.

It's the local indigenous work force that they are in direct competition with and undercutting. I'm going to put my neck on the line and suggest that the percentage of Europeans that make up the local work force is higher than the 0.3% you're trying to get away with.

I'm also going to politely suggest that you are in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:30 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Let's look at these figures.

1 the 0.3%. Where is it from?

2. What's the percentage for Lithuanian, Latvian Romanian because I see car number plates from many eastern European countries.

3. What's the total%, from Europe not just poland because people tend to lazily label all eastern European as "polish"

4, you quote "1000" as the "local population"

5 the " Local population" includes retired from the work force, pensioners.

6. "The local population" includes children and people who have not entered the jobs market.

So, if you able to provide a figure for the Polish workers locally, what's the percentage of European workers who are here due to free movement of people, as a percentage of the LOCAL WORK FORCE? Not as a percentage of the disingenuous 1000 of the"Local population.

It's the local indigenous work force that they are in direct competition with and undercutting. I'm going to put my neck on the line and suggest that the percentage of Europeans that make up the local work force is higher than the 0.3% you're trying to get away with.

I'm also going to politely suggest that you are in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

Thanks you've explained better than I could have.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:39 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:Let's look at these figures.

1 the 0.3%. Where is it from?

2. What's the percentage for Lithuanian, Latvian Romanian because I see car number plates from many eastern European countries.

3. What's the total%, from Europe not just poland because people tend to lazily label all eastern European as "polish"

4, you quote "1000" as the "local population"

5 the " Local population" includes retired from the work force, pensioners.

6. "The local population" includes children and people who have not entered the jobs market.

So, if you able to provide a figure for the Polish workers locally, what's the percentage of European workers who are here due to free movement of people, as a percentage of the LOCAL WORK FORCE? Not as a percentage of the disingenuous 1000 of the"Local population.

It's the local indigenous work force that they are in direct competition with and undercutting.

Briefly - as I've already covered this.
The 0.3% figure is from the 2011 census. It includes ALL Poles in Burnley.
The number will probably have risen between 2011 and 14, but has dropped since then, so 0.3 is a reasonable estimate for today.
Your second point doesn't make much since - as you say not all of that 0.3% are workers and Jakubs post was about the large number of Polish workers distorting the Labour market.
It is true that there are other Eastern European immigrants, but Jakub continually refers to Polish, but in any event the number of EU migrants in Burnley is very small as a percentage, and only a fraction of the number of non-fiction to immigrants.
EDIT: Where did i say the local population was 1000. It's way below that.
0.3% is 3 in every 1000.
Population in 2011 census was 85,000.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:44 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Briefly - as I've already covered this.
The 0.3% figure is from the 2011 census. It includes ALL Poles in Burnley.
The number will probably have risen between 2011 and 14, but has dropped since then, so 0.3 is a reasonable estimate for today.
Your second point doesn't make much since - as you say not all of that 0.3% are workers and Jakubs post was about the large number of Polish workers distorting the Labour market.
It is true that there are other Eastern European immigrants, but Jakub continually refers to Polish, but in any event the number of EU migrants in Burnley is very small as a percentage, and only a fraction of the number of non-fiction to immigrants.

Well other Eastern Europeans then, when their drop my Amazon parcels off I don't interrogate them, we are overrun with them theirs too much exploitation going on it's sickening based on greed.

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:47 am

Boris will be along to tell us a food shortage will be good for all the UK's fatties.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:53 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Briefly - as I've already covered this.
The 0.3% figure is from the 2011 census. It includes ALL Poles in Burnley.
The number will probably have risen between 2011 and 14, but has dropped since then, so 0.3 is a reasonable estimate for today.
Your second point doesn't make much since - as you say not all of that 0.3% are workers and Jakubs post was about the large number of Polish workers distorting the Labour market.
It is true that there are other Eastern European immigrants, but Jakub continually refers to Polish, but in any event the number of EU migrants in Burnley is very small as a percentage, and only a fraction of the number of non-fiction to immigrants.
EDIT: Where did i say the local population was 1000. It's way below that.
0.3% is 3 in every 1000.
Population in 2011 census was 85,000.

The "0.3% is 3 in every 1000."

The "1000"

What's it made up from?

Children. Retired people?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:00 am

Jakubclaret wrote:Well other Eastern Europeans then, when their drop my Amazon parcels off I don't interrogate them, we are overrun with them theirs too much exploitation going on it's sickening based on greed.

Why not just check your facts instead of relying on me to check the appropriate data and correct you.
Going back to our previous exchange you can't " take me seriously " because I describe 0.3% as"a few".
How would you describe it?
If you check any data for the local population, you will discover that the percentage of Eastern European immigrants locally is very low, and a small fraction of immigration overall, which by and large is from Asia.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:04 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Briefly - as I've already covered this.
The 0.3% figure is from the 2011 census. It includes ALL Poles in Burnley.
The number will probably have risen between 2011 and 14, but has dropped since then, so 0.3 is a reasonable estimate for today.
Your second point doesn't make much since - as you say not all of that 0.3% are workers and Jakubs post was about the large number of Polish workers distorting the Labour market.
It is true that there are other Eastern European immigrants, but Jakub continually refers to Polish, but in any event the number of EU migrants in Burnley is very small as a percentage, and only a fraction of the number of non-fiction to immigrants.
EDIT: Where did i say the local population was 1000. It's way below that.
0.3% is 3 in every 1000.
Population in 2011 census was 85,000.

Where are you nil desperandum!?

Your quoting the entire population of Burnley, 85000.

You're singling out a single nationality. Polish. As a percentage of the the 85000. 0.3%

You're not including ALL the other Europeans here due to the EU freemovent of people rules.

You're not subtracting the retired and children who are not part of the local work force.

Now you're the one with the figures apparently.

For the second time.

What is the percentage of European workers as a percentage of the local Burnley work force.?

Also can you confirm with a simple yes or no. Whether
you are in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour please?

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:11 am

RingoMcCartney wrote:The "0.3% is 3 in every 1000."

The "1000"

What's it made up from?

Children. Retired people?

I'm giving up on this, but if 3 in every thousand of our local population are Polish,which official data says they are, then the number of Polish workers will be less than 3 in every 1000 of the local population.
So if it were 0.3, and they all worked, then it would be about 250 workers based on the population of 85,000 , but obviously it's a lot less than that, since as you correctly point out they have children. I doubt that there are many - if any - who are retired.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:19 am

nil_desperandum wrote:I'm giving up on this, but if 3 in every thousand of our local population are Polish,which official data says they are, then the number of Polish workers will be less than 3 in every 1000 of the local population.
So if it were 0.3, and they all worked, then it would be about 250 workers based on the population of 85,000 , but obviously it's a lot less than that, since as you correctly point out they have children. I doubt that there are many - if any - who are retired.

Are you actually being serious!?

You know full well that when I refer to retired and children. I'm referring to the retired and the children that make up a large part of the 85000 population of Burnley.

I'm NOT referring to the children and the retired of the Polish. AND YOU BLOODY KNOW IT.

So stop playing ignorant.

I'm now asking for the THIRD TIME.

What is the percentage of European workers as a percentage of the local Burnley work force.?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:31 am

nil_desperandum wrote:I'm giving up on this.

Looks like you given up on facts, truth and being honest and reasonable......

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:32 am

Ringo to messageboard discussions is like what Pong is to Computer Gaming

Caballo · Post by **Caballo** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:34 am

lots of numbers there nil, I only see one of them as significant though, 2011. I'd respectfully suggest things have changed somewhat in the last seven years.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:36 am

Here you go Ringo, not sure why you couldn't use the internet and find this yourself given you were getting so excited about it. Took about a minute so would have been quicker than your posts asking for the info.

Formatting is a bit off, EU immigrants made up under 2% of the workforce, fewer than 700 people.
Polish (which was the original point although you seem to be ignoring that) about 0.6%

Numbers don't really seem that high to get excited about.

WP203EW - Country of birth (Workplace population)Read more about wp203ew - country of birth (workplace population)
ONS Crown Copyright Reserved [from Nomis on 26 July 2018]Read more about contact
Population All usual residents aged 16 to 74 in employment in the area the week before the census
Units Persons
Area Type local authorities: district / unitary (prior to April 2015)
Area Name Burnley
Country of BirthRead more about country of birth 2011
All categories: Country of birth 37,472
Europe: Total 35,027
Europe: United Kingdom: Total 34,090
Europe: United Kingdom: England 33,135
Europe: United Kingdom: Northern Ireland 177
Europe: United Kingdom: Scotland 566
Europe: United Kingdom: Wales 211
Europe: Great Britain not otherwise specified 0
Europe: United Kingdom not otherwise specified 1
Europe: Guernsey 0
Europe: Jersey 8
Europe: Channel Islands not otherwise specified 1
Europe: Isle of Man 8
Europe: Ireland 172
Europe: Other Europe: Total 748
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Total 696
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Total 273
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: France 27
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Germany 144
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Italy 35
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Portugal 16
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Spain (including Canary Islands) 4
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Other member countries in March 2001 47
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Total 423
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Lithuania 49
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Poland 237
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Romania 12
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Other EU accession countries 125
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Total 52
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Turkey 22
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Other Europe 30
Africa: Total 222
Africa: North Africa 34
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Total 30
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Ghana 3
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Nigeria 15
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Other Central and Western Africa 12
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Total 148
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Kenya 18
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Somalia 3
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: South Africa 51
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Zimbabwe 21
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Other South and Eastern Africa 55
Africa: Africa not otherwise specified 10
Middle East and Asia: Total 2,081
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Total 77
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Iran 23
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Other Middle East 54
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Total 112
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: China 44
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China) 46
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Other Eastern Asia 22
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Total 1,670
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Bangladesh 199
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: India 176
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Pakistan 1,223
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Sri Lanka 15
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Other Southern Asia 57
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Total 221
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Philippines 122
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Other South-East Asia 99
Middle East and Asia: Central Asia 1
The Americas and the Caribbean: Total 92
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: Total 49
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: United States 27
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: Other North America 22
The Americas and the Caribbean: Central America 2
The Americas and the Caribbean: South America 24
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Total 17
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Jamaica 9
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Other Caribbean 8
Antarctica and Oceania: Total 50
Antarctica and Oceania: Antarctica 0
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Total 46
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Australia 31
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Other Australasia 15
Antarctica and Oceania: Other Oceania 4
Other 0

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:38 am

And more interesting, some more comments on the WTO, EU and UK negotiations

http://ecipe.org/publications/the-uks-f ... gotiation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(I understand some people won't believe this as the website has Europe in the title.)

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:46 am

Thanks Aggi.
I'm out and about today and have been replying as best as I can on my phone.
All I knew was that the percentage of EU workers including all 27 countries was about 1%, but as you correctly point out, my initial contribution to this debate was to demonstrate how few Polish immigrants- in percentage terms, make up the local workforce compared to non-EU immigrants and the indigenous population.
Have a good day everyone whatever you are doing - UTC.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:55 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Thanks Aggi.
I'm out and about today and have been replying as best as I can on my phone.
All I knew was that the percentage of EU workers including all 27 countries was about 1%, but as you correctly point out, my initial contribution to this debate was to demonstrate how few Polish immigrants- in percentage terms, make up the local workforce compared to non-EU immigrants and the indigenous population.
Have a good day everyone whatever you are doing - UTC.

Consider yourself well and trully spanked.

You've been caught trying to conflate 2 separate figures.

The polish as a percentage of the population. And pretending that the entire 85000 of Burnleyites are in employment.!!!!!

As I've repeatedly said. It's not just polish. It's EUROPEAN.

You've failed, despite 3 requests, to give me the figure of Europeans here due to the EU freedom of movement rule, as a percentage of the BURNLEY WORKFORCE.

Simply quoting the percentage of polish people that make up the general population of Burnley is not the same. And you know it. But you tried to use that figure in order to back up your argument and try and downplay the truth, facts and reality., while simultaneously trying to belittle Jakubclaret.

"If 3 in 1000 are causing so much economic grief then they must be an incredibly powerful and influential group"

And now your "out and about"

And surprise surprise!!!!

Not a single attempt to confirm with a simple yes or No.
Whether you are in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:59 am

aggi wrote:Here you go Ringo, not sure why you couldn't use the internet and find this yourself given you were getting so excited about it. Took about a minute so would have been quicker than your posts asking for the info.

Formatting is a bit off, EU immigrants made up under 2% of the workforce, fewer than 700 people.
Polish (which was the original point although you seem to be ignoring that) about 0.6%

Numbers don't really seem that high to get excited about.

WP203EW - Country of birth (Workplace population)Read more about wp203ew - country of birth (workplace population)
ONS Crown Copyright Reserved [from Nomis on 26 July 2018]Read more about contact
Population All usual residents aged 16 to 74 in employment in the area the week before the census
Units Persons
Area Type local authorities: district / unitary (prior to April 2015)
Area Name Burnley
Country of BirthRead more about country of birth 2011
All categories: Country of birth 37,472
Europe: Total 35,027
Europe: United Kingdom: Total 34,090
Europe: United Kingdom: England 33,135
Europe: United Kingdom: Northern Ireland 177
Europe: United Kingdom: Scotland 566
Europe: United Kingdom: Wales 211
Europe: Great Britain not otherwise specified 0
Europe: United Kingdom not otherwise specified 1
Europe: Guernsey 0
Europe: Jersey 8
Europe: Channel Islands not otherwise specified 1
Europe: Isle of Man 8
Europe: Ireland 172
Europe: Other Europe: Total 748
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Total 696
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Total 273
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: France 27
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Germany 144
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Italy 35
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Portugal 16
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Spain (including Canary Islands) 4
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Member countries in March 2001: Other member countries in March 2001 47
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Total 423
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Lithuania 49
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Poland 237
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Romania 12
Europe: Other Europe: EU countries: Accession countries April 2001 to March 2011: Other EU accession countries 125
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Total 52
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Turkey 22
Europe: Other Europe: Rest of Europe: Other Europe 30
Africa: Total 222
Africa: North Africa 34
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Total 30
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Ghana 3
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Nigeria 15
Africa: Central and Western Africa: Other Central and Western Africa 12
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Total 148
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Kenya 18
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Somalia 3
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: South Africa 51
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Zimbabwe 21
Africa: South and Eastern Africa: Other South and Eastern Africa 55
Africa: Africa not otherwise specified 10
Middle East and Asia: Total 2,081
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Total 77
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Iran 23
Middle East and Asia: Middle East: Other Middle East 54
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Total 112
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: China 44
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Hong Kong (Special Administrative Region of China) 46
Middle East and Asia: Eastern Asia: Other Eastern Asia 22
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Total 1,670
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Bangladesh 199
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: India 176
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Pakistan 1,223
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Sri Lanka 15
Middle East and Asia: Southern Asia: Other Southern Asia 57
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Total 221
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Philippines 122
Middle East and Asia: South-East Asia: Other South-East Asia 99
Middle East and Asia: Central Asia 1
The Americas and the Caribbean: Total 92
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: Total 49
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: United States 27
The Americas and the Caribbean: North America: Other North America 22
The Americas and the Caribbean: Central America 2
The Americas and the Caribbean: South America 24
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Total 17
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Jamaica 9
The Americas and the Caribbean: The Caribbean: Other Caribbean 8
Antarctica and Oceania: Total 50
Antarctica and Oceania: Antarctica 0
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Total 46
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Australia 31
Antarctica and Oceania: Australasia: Other Australasia 15
Antarctica and Oceania: Other Oceania 4
Other 0

Hahaha

Your giving me answers to questions I haven't asked!!!!

Now between the 2 of you. You and nil " swerving like a cowardly good 'en" desperandum. Cos you have all the stats and figures. APPARENTLY. Can answer the simple question -

What is the percentage of EUROPEAN workers as a percentage of the local Burnley work force.?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:19 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Thanks Aggi.
I'm out and about today and have been replying as best as I can on my phone.
All I knew was that the percentage of EU workers including all 27 countries was about 1%, but as you correctly point out, my initial contribution to this debate was to demonstrate how few Polish immigrants- in percentage terms, make up the local workforce compared to non-EU immigrants and the indigenous population.
Have a good day everyone whatever you are doing - UTC.

It's just occurred to me nil "out and about" desperandum

When I said the majority of Burnleyites had voted to Leave. You couldn't tell me quick enough how wrong I was!! Pointing to the population as a total. The number on the electoral roll. The number that didn't vote the. The number that voted Remain etc etc. And then used percentages to try and disprove something my general point.

You've used a percentage trying to play down the effects free movement of people and it's well and trully bitten you in the backside!

Hoist by your own petard!

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:24 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Hahaha

Your giving me answers to questions I haven't asked!!!!

Now between the 2 of you. You and nil " swerving like a cowardly good 'en" desperandum. Cos you have all the stats and figures. APPARENTLY. Can answer the simple question -

What is the percentage of EUROPEAN workers as a percentage of the local Burnley work force.?

Work it out for yourself! Take the size of the Burnley workforce and work out 700 as a percentage of it. It’s still going to be a low number.

Edit - actually I’ve looked at it again and the figures quoted are just ‘workforce population’. So he’s already answered your question - less than 2%.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:28 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Hahaha

Your giving me answers to questions I haven't asked!!!!

Now between the 2 of you. You and nil " swerving like a cowardly good 'en" desperandum. Cos you have all the stats and figures. APPARENTLY. Can answer the simple question -

What is the percentage of EUROPEAN workers as a percentage of the local Burnley work force.?

Formatting is a bit off, EU immigrants made up under 2% of the workforce, fewer than 700 people.

If you actually want Europe (not sure why in a discussion about the EU) and you really can't use a calculator it's still about 2%.

If you want something else, the numbers are there, work it out.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:41 pm

If there's only 172 polish immigrants in Ireland then I met them all 5 times each in Dublin last year.

There's a big Polish agency in Blackburn that drops lads off in minibus's all around Lancashire, so I don't know how you could get accurate info on it.

But they were complaining about farming on the East coast not Burnley.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:46 pm

aggi wrote:Formatting is a bit off, EU immigrants made up under 2% of the workforce, fewer than 700 people.

If you actually want Europe (not sure why in a discussion about the EU) and you really can't use a calculator it's still about 2%.

If you want something else, the numbers are there, work it out.

So it's not "0.3%"!

It's far more!

I'd suggest that they are very much concentrated in the low skilled , already low paid part of the local jobs market. Effecting those least able to protect themselves from the effects of the race to the bottom on wages they've been forced to join.

Importantly these figures will not show the black economy where people will be working for near slave rates of pay. This also has the corrosive effect on wages and plays into the hands of greedy exploitative gang masters who are only too pleased to take on cheap foreign labour.

Non of this will affect the likes of nil "out and about" desperandum I would suggest as he's refused 4 times, to answer in a simple yes or no whether hes in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:56 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:So it's not "0.3%"!

It's far more!

I'd suggest that they are very much concentrated in the low skilled , already low paid part of the local jobs market. Effecting those least able to protect themselves from the effects of the race to the bottom on wages they've been forced to join.

Importantly these figures will not show the black economy where people will be working for near slave rates of pay. This also has the corrosive effect on wages and plays into the hands of greedy exploitative gang masters who are only too pleased to take on cheap foreign labour.

Non of this will affect the likes of nil "out and about" desperandum I would suggest as he's refused 4 times, to answer in a simple yes or no whether hes in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

Not sure why I'm bothering coming back on this.
0.3% was correct since Jakub was referring to Poles.
Obviously it will be higher if you include all EU migrants, but it's still a very small proportion compared to non-eu migrants as Aggis statistics prove.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:00 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Part of me is glad that its being mentioned so that the various companies can stock up on food, but it won't be enough because there will be panic buying of stuff.

The other part of me is laughing that people still think this is a good idea.

It will be the best thing ever to happen to us. Of course not to the likes of you who hate an independent country and want to be ruled by Germany and a bunch of non-ellected non-entities. Why dont you go and live there.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:00 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Not sure why I'm bothering coming back on this.
0.3% was correct since Jakub was referring to Poles.
Obviously it will be higher if you include all EU migrants, but it's still a very small proportion compared to non-eu migrants as Aggis statistics prove.

It's only correct assuming the figures quoted are correct, what we see (some of us) day to day suggests the numbers don't add up. Anyway I'm out & about now, there's still a lingering question directed to you, I think that's been asked that needs answering.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:03 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:So it's not "0.3%"!

It's far more!

I'd suggest that they are very much concentrated in the low skilled , already low paid part of the local jobs market. Effecting those least able to protect themselves from the effects of the race to the bottom on wages they've been forced to join.

Importantly these figures will not show the black economy where people will be working for near slave rates of pay. This also has the corrosive effect on wages and plays into the hands of greedy exploitative gang masters who are only too pleased to take on cheap foreign labour.

Non of this will affect the likes of nil "out and about" desperandum I would suggest as he's refused 4 times, to answer in a simple yes or no whether hes in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

No-one said it was 0.3% (except you).

Although I don't really care, I just provided the figures to stop you banging on about it.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:04 pm

Stayingup wrote:It will be the best thing ever to happen to us. Of course not to the likes of you who hate an independent country and want to be ruled by Germany and a bunch of non-ellected non-entities. Why dont you go and live there.

HOUSE!

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:48 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Not sure why I'm bothering coming back on this.
0.3% was correct since Jakub was referring to Poles.
Obviously it will be higher if you include all EU migrants, but it's still a very small proportion compared to non-eu migrants as Aggis statistics prove.

You knew he was being generic using the term "polish" stop kidding yourself.

The figure is far higher

The numbers are concentrated where the competition they provide is against the very people least able to protect themselves.

You're ignoring the downward pressure that an over supply of cheap foreign labour has on the poorest

You're ignoring the downward pressure that an over supply of cheap BLACK ECONOMY, foreign labour has on the poorest indigenous workers.

I suggest you haven't been to the burnley job centre to be welcomed by a see of jobs paying minimum wage.

I suggest you haven't signed up with a Burnley employment agency to be presented by a see of jobs paying minimum wage.

I suggest you haven't driven past the local car wash that boasted on a sign - " legal workers!"

Otherwise, why would you come out with the sneering, I'm alright Jack attitude that leads to the statement -

" If 3 in 1000 are causing so much economic grief then they must be an incredibly powerful and influential group."

But I'm certain that you have this attitude because, for the FIFTH TIME of asking. You have not made a single attempt to confirm with a simple yes or No.
Whether you are in a position where your job/ lifestyle /wealth is not directly effected by the effects of an over supply of cheap foreign labour.

Hoist by your own petard.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:08 pm

aggi wrote:No-one said it was 0.3% (except you).
.

WRONG! The whole point of my posts this morning have been saying 0.3% is inaccurate!!!

It was the yes or no avoiding, nil " out and about" desperandum

Doh!

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:15 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:WRONG! The whole point of my posts this morning have been saying 0.3% is inaccurate!!!

It was the yes or no avoiding, nil " out and about" desperandum

Doh!

Only because everyone else is discussing Polish immigrants and you're having a different conversation about all European immigrants. Obviously the numbers are different but most people realise that people not from Poland aren't Polish.

Cheerful · Post by **Cheerful** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:18 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:It's only correct assuming the figures quoted are correct, what we see (some of us) day to day suggests the numbers don't add up.

Jesus wept.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm

aggi wrote:Only because everyone else is discussing Polish immigrants and you're having a different conversation about all European immigrants. Obviously the numbers are different but most people realise that people not from Poland aren't Polish.

Keep it real ffs. As I said earlier "the polish" is what most people that live in the real world call eastern European.

Nitpick all you want.

I knew what Jakubclaret meant and nil "can't provide a simple yes or no" desperandum tried playing the percentage game to twist the facts and he's been made to look like the pedantic fool he is.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:31 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You knew he was being generic using the term "polish" stop kidding yourself.

Ah the old Donald Trump ‘everyone knows I was talking about the thing I didn’t say’ defence.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:35 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Keep it real ffs. As I said earlier "the polish" is what most people that live in the real world call eastern European.

Nitpick all you want.

I knew what Jakubclaret meant and nil "can't provide a simple yes or no" desperandum tried playing the percentage game to twist the facts and he's been made to look like the pedantic fool he is.

No, polish is what people call people from Poland.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:40 pm

The polish is what you clean furniture with. The Polish are people, who come from Poland.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:42 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Keep it real ffs. As I said earlier "the polish" is what most people that live in the real world call eastern European.

Nitpick all you want.

Nah, most people call them Eastern European. Your argument hinging on the other side being psychic makes it a bit difficult.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:52 pm

Watching Ringo try and get his head round percentages is genuinely painful.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:56 pm

The Hungarian polish flag is my favourite polish flag. It reminds me of a sideways Italian Drapeau de la France.

Walton · Post by **Walton** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:57 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Keep it real ffs. As I said earlier "the polish" is what most people that live in the real world call eastern European.

Nitpick all you want.

What do you call people from India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Pakistan if you call all Eastern Europeans 'Polish'?

I've got a suspicion, but thought I'd ask.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:06 pm

Most are polish, I should have been more clear & said Eastern European, nil desp was just being pedantic distorting the essence of the points being raised, it's a characteristic trait I've noticed certain posters have adopted to try to make the opposing poster look dim & detract from the argument, demonstrates a lack of ability in my view to counter constructively.