Tusk wants us to take the Canada deal

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:45 pm

I don't know the specifics to be honest, but the reality is that no one wants a No Deal for (hopefully by now!) very obvious reasons.

Mays speech attacked both Johnsons plan (for want of a better word!) and warned the ERG that people won't vote for something that promises prosperity in fifty years time.

Only way of reading that is one that keeps us in the customs union (but called something else)

One thing that is really important to remember here is that the EU are well aware of the special nature of the border in NI (even though plenty on here still refuse to see it) and there will be some scope for a unique solution (but not one that is based on tech that doesn't exist yet)

Regarding the free movement bit, I suspect we will just do what we've always been able to do and enforce this three month period that is allowable, but again, call it something else.

It could all fall apart of course, and I could be reading far too much into stuff but the Conservatives are well aware that if we crash out with No Deal, they will be finished for a generation at least, and possibly finished all together.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:50 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I don't know the specifics to be honest, but the reality is that no one wants a No Deal for (hopefully by now!) very obvious reasons.

Mays speech attacked both Johnsons plan (for want of a better word!) and warned the ERG that people won't vote for something that promises prosperity in fifty years time.

Only way of reading that is one that keeps us in the customs union (but called something else)

One thing that is really important to remember here is that the EU are well aware of the special nature of the border in NI (even though plenty on here still refuse to see it) and there will be some scope for a unique solution (but not one that is based on tech that doesn't exist yet)

Regarding the free movement bit, I suspect we will just do what we've always been able to do and enforce this three month period that is allowable, but again, call it something else.

There is no chance parliament will agree a Norway type deal though - irrespective of what it's called - because it would mean the UK being an EEA member which is predicated on the freedom of movement including people. It would be political suicide to support it given a big reason for those voting leave was to control immigration.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:54 pm

Do you wanna know what's going to happen? We're going to stay in the EU but it'll be called something else. We will all be happy. An aesthetic "leave" with a practical "remain".

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:55 pm

But that is the people (and please remember that a lot of people have been stressing that is wasn't all about immigration) - in this case, you

Its got to get through the MPs.

Essentially me and you have had our say, its up to them to work out something that weighs up everything for the best of the UK.

And like I said, I might be reading too much between the lines!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:56 pm

We'll be part of the EU, but we will call it something like "Empire Mk II" (but not on official documents of course!) and everyone will be happy.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:But that is the people (and please remember that a lot of people have been stressing that is wasn't all about immigration) - in this case, you

Its got to get through the MPs.

Essentially me and you have had our say, its up to them to work out something that weighs up everything for the best of the UK.

And like I said, I might be reading too much between the lines!

I didn't say it was all about immigration. I said it was a big reason which it clearly was. It certainly does have to get through the MPs which is why the key features of a Norway style deal won't happen. I'm surprised you think otherwise.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:59 pm

It'll be like when a company goes bust and changes its logo but is exactly the same.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:01 pm

I'm surprised that you think it won't happen.

There is either a "No Deal" or there is a compromise somewhere.

The only redline that cannot be crossed under any circumstances is the NI border and the GFA.

The Conservative AND UNIONIST party know that full well.

We are going to have to compromise somewhere taio.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm surprised that you think it won't happen.

There is either a "No Deal" or there is a compromise somewhere.

The only redline that cannot be crossed under any circumstances is the NI border and the GFA.

The Conservative AND UNIONIST party know that full well.

We are going to have to compromise somewhere taio.

I haven't suggested for a moment a deal will not be struck. Saying I have is putting words in my mouth. I think it probably will happen. Just not a Norway style for what I thought were obvious reasons. But you obviously think it's plausible we will leave the EU but continue to be tied to the single market and freedom of movement.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:11 pm

Essentially yes

But hell, I could be wrong

Only reason I think it might be Norway is I can't see anything else working, and I think the NI border issue is solved by NI remaining in the SM.

But I guess we will see.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:16 pm

Freedom of movement of people will clearly be a red line, which means a Norway type deal won't happen. To be fair, after saying you thought it would get through parliament, you said you don't understand the specifics of it.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:18 pm

It is a red line for you. it might not be for a deal.

Lets face it, the red lines we have mean a deal is impossible, so something has to give somewhere.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:It is a red line for you. it might not be for a deal.

Lets face it, the red lines we have mean a deal is impossible, so something has to give somewhere.

It's not a red line for me at all. Find a single post where I have suggested it is. For a start I voted remain. You're putting words in my mouth again. If you think we'll agree to leave the EU yet agree to freedom of movement of people you're losing your touch on the subject.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:32 pm

Maybe i'm not putting it clear enough then (but it certainly looks like I am)

Its just another red line, my entire post is telling you that for a deal to be made, a red line somewhere has to go,

thats all I'm saying.

We can't keep all the red lines and get a deal. That is blatantly obvious.

taio · Post by **taio** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Maybe i'm not putting it clear enough then (but it certainly looks like I am)

Its just another red line, my entire post is telling you that for a deal to be made, a red line somewhere has to go,

thats all I'm saying.

We can't keep all the red lines and get a deal. That is blatantly obvious.

Yep of course there will need to be compromise and, yes, it is blatantly obvious if a deal is to be done. I was specifically disputing your points about Norway style agreement because of the features of that deal I don't believe you were aware of.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:43 pm

No, I'm well aware of the Norway deal! (and it would have to have something extra for the NI border)

I'm not going to suggest something that won't work, its not like I'm a member of the ERG or Boris Johnson is it!

I've even put (twice) that I might be wrong!

My reasoning is that the Irish border is more important because of the implications if it isn't sorted.

That is all!

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:00 am

I missed this debate last night, went to bed early after learning Emily Thornberry was on QT and Chukka was on This Week

There won't be a deal based on Norway. May has categorically ruled it out as has the ERG. The single market and freedom of movement are the big problems with that.

The deal will be Canada+++, but the bit that will be argued is what each + means. Brexiteers mean services, the EU means security and foreign policy.

Rumours are that May will "pretend" temporarily but "actually" permanently keep us in the Customs Union (unlike Canada). That would please people like Lancaster but will displease those who want to set our own tariffs and quotas, and negotiate our own trade deals. So that will be one argument.

Ireland is obviously another argument, an easier one I am guessing.

Finally, the third argument will be about regulations (May's common rule book). I suspect here Tusk and the EU will be aligned with the ERG in wanting us to be disconnected, meaning a slightly less frictionless trading relationship.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:05 am

"An easier one I'm guessing"

Nothing sums up my utter astonishment with the total lack of interest in the Irish border issue from the brexiteers then that one.

And for the nth time, its my opinion on where we will end up.

Just like Canada ++ is yours.

The big difference between my point of view and yours is that mine has changed over time to deal with the issues that Brexit has raised, whilst yours hasn't.

And never will. You just don't want to see anything other than your vision of Brexit.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:27 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:"An easier one I'm guessing"

Nothing sums up my utter astonishment with the total lack of interest in the Irish border issue from the brexiteers then that one.

And for the nth time, its my opinion on where we will end up.

Just like Canada ++ is yours.

The big difference between my point of view and yours is that mine has changed over time to deal with the issues that Brexit has raised, whilst yours hasn't.

And never will. You just don't want to see anything other than your vision of Brexit.

It seems to me yours hasn't changed at all, from what I have seen on here, all you have done is jump on the reasons why you feel it can't work, you have not changed position or stance on it from what I see over many different debates on this forum, so it's a little disingenuous to pretend you are the one who is open to change and the Brexiteers are not.

In fact it's quite the opposite. Remainers are desperate for the status quo and Brexiteers want something new, something different.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:34 am

Then you haven't been reading my posts.

And all that you and every single Brexiteer on here has convinced me is that you do not care about what happens, as long as we get a Brexit.

When all the experts warnings come true, you lot will blame..........the EU, the government, the media, politicians, industry.

What you won't do is have a good, long, hard look at yourselves and why you decided that this was a good idea.

The irish border question is a case in point. From what I read on here, none of you have made any effort to understand it or if you have, you have decided to ignore it because it does not suit your vision of what Brexit is.

Multiply that by every issue that is raised, and its getting really hard to see how we come out of this with anything other than a disaster.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:59 am

The difference between my view and your view is that you are taking the experts that support your side literally and I do not. Almost all of the things I have seen from experts regarding Brexit include the words "could", " might", "possible", yet despite that remainers tell you these things as if they are definitive. Having worst case scenarios pushed as absolutes and you wonder why Brexiteers are skeptical?

In the very last sentence you prove my very point about you not changing your stance. You have always said it would be a disaster, so how has that stance changed at all?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:12 pm

They don't, do they?

I know why Brexiteers are sceptical, because they don't want to believe that their dream is going to be a disaster.

And I used to be remain. I'd still rather stay, but I appreciate that isn't going to happen unless Lab or Cons change their minds. So I move to what is best for us.

None of you lot have budged an inch.

And "could, might, possible" - You know as well as I do that the further we go along this road, those "could, might, possible" will turn into definites.

There is only so much you can wring out of all being a remainer conspiracy Mik.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:14 pm

If each party sticks to their current positions Canada+++ wouldn't get in.

There's no solution for the Irish border so the conservatives couldn't go with it but there'll probably be some solution though that upsets the DUP so they won't vote for it.

Labour's six tests are pretty much unachievable so they won't vote for it.

Realistically though, I imagine a Canada+++ with some finessing of the border would go through with a combination of Labour and Conservative MPs going for it (and the DUP against).

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some form of EEA-lite go through as I think a large number of MPs from both sides would be happy with that (although Rees Mogg and the rest would be fuming). I imagine it would be sold as A (not THE) customs union and controlling our borders with the ability to boot out immigrants after three months if they can't support themselves, etc. (Basically a deal worse than the current one we have.)

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:48 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
And "could, might, possible" - You know as well as I do that the further we go along this road, those "could, might, possible" will turn into definites.

If these "experts" were as knowledgeable and correct, as you claim, they wouldn't need to include those words would they? They use those words as a safety net incase they are wrong. This is the problem. Yet you tell Brexiteers they are wrong and it will be a "disaster" based upon those experts.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:52 pm

You are not an expert.

No one who is an expert backs your opinion.

So what are you basing your opinion on?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:59 pm

Too much credence goes to all these economical experts they might have all the A & O levels & bachelor awards, they don't have any commonsense when it boils down to it. You could even argue that they opinions are biased as remaining in the EU might benefit them personally, there are not concerned with your average working class person.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:01 pm

Uh huh

I don't want to go down that route, but that doesn't sound even vaguely credible.

I mean, how can you type that with a straight face?

taio · Post by **taio** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:12 pm

I presume reference to experts is specifically about views on the potential impact on the economy. But many brexiteers voted the way they did for non-economic reasons, such as controlling immigration being a huge factor. In any case there are economists who have supported Brexit particularly in terms of the longer-term outlook, but I suppose they wouldn't be considered experts by those who disagree with them simply for that reason. I took the decision to vote remain largely for economic reasons but with a realisation I could be wrong, and it doesn't mean I think have superior knowledge and intelligence on the subject because of the way I chose to vote.

In terms of any deal I suspect there's a good chance it will be an hybrid of Chequers and Canada+++. I still cannot fathom how a Norway style deal would be possible given single market and freedom of movement are fundamental to that type of agreement.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:23 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Too much credence goes to all these economical experts they might have all the A & O levels & bachelor awards, they don't have any commonsense when it boils down to it. You could even argue that they opinions are biased as remaining in the EU might benefit them personally, there are not concerned with your average working class person.

Do you apply that rational to all things in life or just things relating to Brexit?

I mean if a doctor for instance was on tv saying people should exercise more would you be sat there thinking, I bet he’s got shares in a gym chain.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:25 pm

June, I think it was, when Lancaster Claret said " for crying out loud! How many times do I have to explain on here that, I've accepted the referendum result"

I pointed out to him that I could revisit any brexit related thread in the next few months and he'd still be here banging the ceaseless Remoaner drum of impending economic Armageddon.

My prediction was correct. And his claim was a lie.

You have to keep at the forefront of your mind is that this is the guy that boasted , " I do have the unfortunate habit of being right most of the time"

He chooses to ignore every single prediction that his beloved , and entirely partisan , experts made, have failed to materialise spectacularly.

I'm not sure who is the more obstinate in their radicalised europhile beliefs. Lancaster Claret or the semi permantly hysterical and recalcitrant, the gap toothed , Guy Verhofstadt?

I'll pop back in a couple of months. And I'll wager Lancaster Claret will be still here. Just like his arch federalist hero, he'll be proving he simply does not accept the result of the biggest single expression of democracy the UK has ever witnessed.

Treat him gently lads. If you prove him wrong with facts, he blocks you........

Cheerful · Post by **Cheerful** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:33 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Too much credence goes to all these economical experts they might have all the A & O levels & bachelor awards, they don't have any commonsense when it boils down to it.

I thought you couldn’t surpass your Farage comment, but you might have just succeeded.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:34 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Do you apply that rational to all things in life or just things relating to Brexit?

I mean if a doctor for instance was on tv saying people should exercise more would you be sat there thinking, I bet he’s got shares in a gym chain.

Even doctors say what benefits them more than their patients sometimes.

Or we wouldn't have the customer based pharmaceutical mess. Create customers not cures.

Even prescribing the higher priced tablets for their bosses finance.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:35 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Do you apply that rational to all things in life or just things relating to Brexit?

I mean if a doctor for instance was on tv saying people should exercise more would you be sat there thinking, I bet he’s got shares in a gym chain.

Doctors aren't a good analogy. What if a government doctor said eggs and milk are good for you, and then along came another government doctor who said eggs and milk are bad for you, and then another government doctor said eggs and milk are good for you after all - if another government doctor came along and said eggs and milk are bad, would you perhaps start to wonder if they really knew what they were on about? That's how it's been.

Cheerful · Post by **Cheerful** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:38 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:June, I think it was, when Lancaster Claret said " for crying out loud! How many times do I have to explain on here that, I've accepted the referendum result"

I pointed out to him that I could revisit any brexit related thread in the next few months and he'd still be here banging the ceaseless Remoaner drum of impending economic Armageddon.

My prediction was correct. And his claim was a lie.

You have to keep at the forefront of your mind is that this is the guy that boasted , " I do have the unfortunate habit of being right most of the time"

He chooses to ignore every single prediction that his beloved , and entirely partisan , experts made, have failed to materialise spectacularly.

I'm not sure who is the more obstinate in their radicalised europhile beliefs. Lancaster Claret or the semi permantly hysterical and recalcitrant, the gap toothed , Guy Verhofstadt?

I'll pop back in a couple of months. And I'll wager Lancaster Claret will be still here. Just like his arch federalist hero, he'll be proving he simply does not accept the result of the biggest single expression of democracy the UK has ever witnessed.

Treat him gently lads. If you prove him wrong with facts, he blocks you........

...and ffs, Ringo, get over him, your obsession with Lancaster is embarrassing. You lost, get over it.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:39 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You have to keep at the forefront of your mind is that this is the guy that boasted , " I do have the unfortunate habit of being right most of the time"

glad to see you've got the right person this time round.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:51 pm

Ringo, you are a weird chap.

I blocked you to save you from yourself. But you keep going on and on and on about me being right and you being, er, wrong.

Two problems

1) Nice people keep quoting you and as they are not blocked, I then read what you are saying about me. And guess what? Its about me being right and you being wrong. Not healthy that level of obsession.

2) You act like I'm some sort of anti-Brexiteering god, and that if you can slay me, then Brexit suddenly becomes right and it will be ok. Just how mad is that?

And please, please, please don't flatter yourself with your "he blocks you when you hit him with facts"

I blocked two people on here. I don't block all the other Brexiteers, I don't block anyone who proves me wrong. What would be the point in that?

Psttotto, because he's not a nice chap at all, and you, BECAUSE I FELT SORRY FOR YOU. You've got enough on your plate with everybody thinking you are mental without having me to deal with as well.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:57 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:You are not an expert.

No one who is an expert backs your opinion.

So what are you basing your opinion on?

Actually there are quite a number, but you won't see them unless you step outside your echo-chamber.

Here are a couple of examples:

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.facebook.com/EconomistsforBrexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The point is that it is down to opinion, but somehow you have decided only yours is correct.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:00 pm

So Patrick Minford then.

All I need to know.

And please, if you want to pretend that you are not in an echo chamber, knock yourself out.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:06 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:So Patrick Minford then.

All I need to know.

And please, if you want to pretend that you are not in an echo chamber, knock yourself out.

You did exactly what I thought you would. It's not an expert you agree with and therefore you dismissed it.

Do you not see your own hypocrisy?

I think you will find there are actually quite a number:

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/who-we-are/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the echo-chamber - you stated

No one who is an expert backs your opinion.

Quite clearly some do, but you would know if you could see outside your remainer bubble.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:09 pm

If the definition of expert is "someone who agrees with me", then by definition anyone who disagrees is not an expert.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:12 pm

taio wrote:In any case there are economists who have supported Brexit particularly in terms of the longer-term outlook, but I suppose they wouldn't be considered experts by those who disagree with them simply for that reason.

Have you got links to any? They seem to be surprisingly scarce when you google it (other than Patrick Minford) whereas there is a pretty diverse range of negative predictions with a number being from what appear to be pretty neutral observers.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:17 pm

Mik, no offence mate, but over a two year period, economist for Brexit and economists for free trade haven't had a lot of traction, because there are a lot more people who don't believe them.

And most, if not all, are devotees of Minford.

The argument about whether Brexit is going to be economically better for the UK was lost by you lot sometime ago. Even on here the narrative from DSR and crosspool (two brexiteers for whom I fundamentally disagree with but at least they know their stuff) has changed to "well, we knew it would be bad but it will be worth it".

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Ringo, you are a weird chap.

I blocked you to save you from yourself. But you keep going on and on and on about me being right and you being, er, wrong.

Two problems

1) Nice people keep quoting you and as they are not blocked, I then read what you are saying about me. And guess what? Its about me being right and you being wrong. Not healthy that level of obsession.

2) You act like I'm some sort of anti-Brexiteering god, and that if you can slay me, then Brexit suddenly becomes right and it will be ok. Just how mad is that?

And please, please, please don't flatter yourself with your "he blocks you when you hit him with facts"

I blocked two people on here. I don't block all the other Brexiteers, I don't block anyone who proves me wrong. What would be the point in that?

Psttotto, because he's not a nice chap at all, and you, BECAUSE I FELT SORRY FOR YOU. You've got enough on your plate with everybody thinking you are mental without having me to deal with as well.

Laughable attempt at rewriting history.

You said the funds received from the EU regeneration fund " Christ on a bike Ringo!, it's not!" our own money coming back.

I provided independent facts sourced from the ONS and Full Facts, an independent facts proving charity.

You refused to admit I was wrong. You blocked me.

See you again in a couple of months in another brexit thread where , no doubt, you'll be demonstrating that you've accepted the referendum result!

Have fun demonstrating that you're right, and you know you're right, cos you're the one saying it.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:25 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Mik, no offence mate, but over a two year period, economist for Brexit and economists for free trade haven't had a lot of traction, because there are a lot more people who don't believe them.

No offense taken, but just because someone doesn't believe them does it make them wrong? That is my point. Your experts must be right because you believe them, but our leave experts must be wrong because you don't believe them. It's illogical.

FWIW I don't take them literally just because they support my side of the argument. We have simply seen too many experts who have been wrong.

I have never stated Brexit would be immediately brilliant for the economy and I challenge you to point out where I have said anything of the sort. All I have ever said is that too much weight is being given to experts, who have been wrong numerous times in the past.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm

The whole Brexit argument from a purely economic point of view is rubbished by far more experts than those who support it.

You can justify to yourself anyway you like for Brexit, but the argument that it is going to be economically good for the country went sometime ago.

And going down the route where a couple of Brexit experts outweigh the thousands of other experts who say otherwise is heading into the sort of territory that is normally only occupied by conspiracy theorists.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Mik, no offence mate, but over a two year period, economist for Brexit and economists for free trade haven't had a lot of traction, because there are a lot more people who don't believe them.

And most, if not all, are devotees of Minford.

The argument about whether Brexit is going to be economically better for the UK was lost by you lot sometime ago. Even on here the narrative from DSR and crosspool (two brexiteers for whom I fundamentally disagree with but at least they know their stuff) has changed to "well, we knew it would be bad but it will be worth it".

Don't invent stuff that I'm supposed to have said.

What I have said is that there may be an economic cost. (There wouldn't be if the EU took the same approach to Brexit as the UK government did, or would have done, to the Scottish independence vote, but that's another matter.) But that's nowhere near saying it will be bad. I have said that the cost will be worth it, though, and I still think so.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:39 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:
And going down the route where a couple of Brexit experts outweigh the thousands of other experts who say otherwise is heading into the sort of territory that is normally only occupied by conspiracy theorists.

Have you seen the film The Big Short?

Just because the majority think one way and a few others think another way doesn't automatically mean the minority are not correct.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:47 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Laughable attempt at rewriting history.

You said the funds received from the EU regeneration fund " Christ on a bike Ringo!, it's not!" our own money coming back.

I provided independent facts sourced from the ONS and Full Facts, an independent facts proving charity.

You refused to admit I was wrong. You blocked me.

See you again in a couple of months in another brexit thread where , no doubt, you'll be demonstrating that you've accepted the referendum result!

Have fun demonstrating that you're right, and you know you're right, cos you're the one saying it.

A bit like his hero James O'Brexit, who blocks everyone on Twitter who disagrees with him about brexit, so that his Twitter feed looks like an echo chamber where everyone agrees with him.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:54 pm

claretandy wrote:A bit like his hero James O'Brexit, who blocks everyone on Twitter who disagrees with him about brexit, so that his Twitter feed looks like an echo chamber where everyone agrees with him.

I questioned whether the LBC tweets were actually written by O'Brien himself because of the self-aggrandising nature and tagged O'Brien in the tweet. As a result he actually blocked me. He really is a bigot who cannot tolerate opposing opinions.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:57 pm

You need help Ringo

Every thread you are involved in starts off like a normal thread until you pile in repeating the same thing time and time and time again. You get proved wrong, you ignore it and go on about the tiny thing that you know is correct. its pointed out to you that its not that simple. You go on and on about the tiny thing you know is correct. Its gets pointed out to you that not even the mainstream brexiteers are using that argument now, because its been completely destroyed over the past two years. You go on and on about the tiny thing you know is correct. It gets pointed out to you again that surely you have the brains to understand that its not that simple. You go on and on about the tiny thing you know is correct. People at this stage either stop replying to you, or block you.

And everytime you reply to me, you just reinforce the image that people have of you. A proper, full blown loon. Thats not my opinion of you btw. You make it impossible to engage with you because of the way you refuse to grasp that its not as simple as you want it to be.

And cheers Andy for quoting it so I could see what he said so I can reply to him.