Is the problem Joe Hart...?

[Turftalkers mentor]

Something ain't right at the moment is it team spirit? is it confidence ? it's hard to put your finger on it but since Joe came in the mood/buzz just doesn't seem to be there! he's a fine keeper but is there a disconnect with the defence ? it's just a gut feeling that I get and I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for suggesting it

My view is it should simply come down to who is the best all round keeper
That is without question Tom Heaton he adds so much to the team his obvious goalkeeping skills ,tactical awareness and organisational skill being the obvious advantages

[Siddo]

I wonder what will happen now Defour and Brady are back. Will the rest of the lads play poorly to try to get Westwood and Lennon back in the team.
I can honestly say that this "fèeling" or theory is the stupidest thing I have heard on this or any other foru.
Hart is inn the team for one reason only, and that reason is he is the best goalkeeper at the club.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I wonder what will happen now Defour and Brady are back. Will the rest of the lads play poorly to try to get Westwood and Lennon back in the team.
I can honestly say that this "fèeling" or theory is the stupidest thing I have heard on this or any other foru.
Hart is inn the team for one reason only, and that reason is he is the best goalkeeper at the club.

Course it is stupid, but look at which posters are banging on about it.

We went more than 10 games last season without a win, Hart wasn't here. Maybe that was when there was a 10 man brawl at training and everyone fell out with each other apart from Heaton & Mee, but then they went for their dinner and the young lad in the sandwich shop got their sandwiches mixed up so they fell out, which is why Ben wouldn't sign a new deal and was desperate to leave the club.

Dyche then sorted everybody out pre -season and all was good again then Hart arrived and he got to sit in Tom's place on the team bus, so all Tom's mates said they will never speak to Hart again and all want to leave.


* some of the above may not be true *

[DCWat]

Closing down was unquestionably our issue on Sunday. Last season, we were fanstastic at ensuring that the shots our keepers faced were more difficult for the striker to score / better for our keeper to save - I recall an article on this very subject.

Hart has played well this season and is rightly number one, currently. If there is a difference in how we are covering shots, it’s probably this that needs addressing than there being a deeper squad issue.

We definitely need to get back to doing the basics well though because without this, most teams in this league will be far better than us.

[jlup1980]

Hart isn't getting the same level of protection from our defence as Pope or Heaton in previous years.

Also, Pope was the 2nd best keeper in the league last season. Any talk of Hart vs Heaton is futile. Pope is who we're missing, not Heaton. He was fantastic before his injury but we simply don't know if he's the same now. Only Dyche and his coaches can make that call and they watch them both every day in training.

If Hart is no. 1 at the moment it's because he's our best option at this time. It might be different when Pope returns. Hart has played at the top level for years and won countless trophies and England caps. Anyone saying Heaton is a better all round keeper clearly has an agenda.

[NL Claret]

I think jlup1980 has ended this thread.

Can you imagine starting a thread ................is the problem Jack Cork? It would get a couple of replies saying he is just slightly out of form and allowances would be made. Those allowances aren't given to some players though and they are deemed the problem even though they have played rubbish for the last 20 matches.

[houseboy]

Just wondering, are the ones criticising Hart on here the same ones that were slating him before he joined, the ones who were criticising him in case he got picked for the world cup ahead of Pope? He was described by many as 'past it' and 'past his best' etc. The same ones who were even criticising the signing in the first place? He has been a top signing and was absolutely essential when we needed cover for two crucial injuries. He has done absolutely NOTHING wrong since he came and in fact has stopped us from conceding cricket scores on a couple of occasions. The Heaton/Pope brigade need to stop whining and just be thankful that we have got (at least for the time being) three of the best goalkeepers in the country. Heaton and/or Pope will have to wait their turn because you don't drop a player who is performing brilliantly because of favouritism or the fact that another player is more 'popular' with the squad. To do that would be an absolute nonsense.

[SmudgetheClaret]

It might seem a ridiculous question to some but it’s clear others are getting a similar vibe but hey ho let’s just shut the conversation down ..

[Spike]

the main source of unrest is the fans

[Jamesy]

No the problem definitely isn’t Joe Hart. There is definitely a problem however, and it lies firmly at the feet of the ginger one.

[fidelcastro]

No the problem definitely isn’t Joe Hart. There is definitely a problem however, and it lies firmly at the feet of the ginger one.

Do you mean it's Dyche's fault? If so, how?

[Dark Cloud]

The problem definitely doesn't lie with Hart. I would never have signed him tbh, but I really have to say he's been excellent imo. Having said that, regarding the debate about which keeper is best, I have to say a fully fit Pope edges it above the other 2 for me.

[Chip Harrison]

The problem definitely doesn't lie with Hart. I would never have signed him tbh, but I really have to say he's been excellent imo. Having said that, regarding the debate about which keeper is best, I have to say a fully fit Pope edges it above the other 2 for me.

Is this the Nick Pope that Southgate said wasn't good enough after watching him train at the World Cup? Is he better than Joe Hart who was selected by several England managers and has nearly 80 caps, and if so show me that stats that prove it.

[Tall Paul]

Is this the Nick Pope that Southgate said wasn't good enough after watching him train at the World Cup? Is he better than Joe Hart who was selected by several England managers and has nearly 80 caps, and if so show me that stats that prove it.

When did Southgate say that? Got a link?

[Mala591]

Multiple 'problems' at the moment

Lack of apparent fitness (has the squad changed their diet this season?)
Unexplainable loss of form of important players
Defence seems to have lost its shape and co-ordination
Totally predictable corners and free kicks
Poor link play between midfield and forwards
Lack of tempo and high pressing
Loss of confidence to 'shoot on sight'
Repeated and 'alarming' use of central midfield player in no. 10 role

SD has had six magnificent years but he perhaps is facing the greatest challenge of his managerial career - developing BFC into a real quality PL team that are both exciting and entertaining to watch.

p.s. no real problem with Joe Hart

[Turftalkers mentor]

No the problem definitely isn’t Joe Hart. There is definitely a problem however, and it lies firmly at the feet of the ginger one.

Are you a relatively new fan who doesn't remember the difficult times up to 6 years ago ?

[ewanrob]

I'm not sure why some insist on going back in time, i'm not really bothered about Orient or 6 years ago...this is here and now. And Sean and his team are clearly way off the mark. How on earth Sean got away with the Wood for Vokes substitution on Sunday without more discussion is beyond me, and its his decision making right now that has to be called into question. Yes hes done brilliantly and I do want him for the long haul, but he is refusing to budge from his ideologies and if he's not careful it could be his downfall.

Pick your strongest team for Christ sake, with square pegs in square holes..stop the damage limitation mindset and just go for it for a change. Ive said before, ive no issue with us getting tanked, as long as weve given them a bloody nose along the way.

[NL Claret]

Multiple 'problems' at the moment

Lack of apparent fitness (has the squad changed their diet this season?)
Unexplainable loss of form of important players
Defence seems to have lost its shape and co-ordination
Totally predictable corners and free kicks
Poor link play between midfield and forwards
Lack of tempo and high pressing
Loss of confidence to 'shoot on sight'
Repeated and 'alarming' use of central midfield player in no. 10 role

SD has had six magnificent years but he perhaps is facing the greatest challenge of his managerial career - developing BFC into a real quality PL team that are both exciting and entertaining to watch.

p.s. no real problem with Joe Hart

I think the other midfield problem needs highlighting as for me this is the biggest issue. There is no presence / physicality in the centre of midfield which is not helping the defence. This doesn't get brought up too much or have a 3 page thread though as he's not in the UTC posters scapegoat category. Allowances are made

[boatshed bill]

Is this the Nick Pope that Southgate said wasn't good enough after watching him train at the World Cup? Is he better than Joe Hart who was selected by several England managers and has nearly 80 caps, and if so show me that stats that prove it.

No, it's the Nick Pope who was 3rd choice for England when Hart was 4th.

[Dark Cloud]

Is this the Nick Pope that Southgate said wasn't good enough after watching him train at the World Cup? Is he better than Joe Hart who was selected by several England managers and has nearly 80 caps, and if so show me that stats that prove it.

I can't show you the stats that prove it. I was simply stating my (humble) opinion re our 3 goalies. A personal opinion based on watching Heaton home and away since he signed, Pope for pretty much a whole season home and away and Joe Hart admittedly for a handful of games. Southgate is paid a lot of money to spend hours watching these people in training and to have his own opinions and ultimately he picks the England team based on that, fair enough, but from what I saw I honestly believe Pope is the better all round keeper and actually gives me more confidence in all the different situations they face during a game (except kicking! ).

[Chip Harrison]

Pope is 26 and only broke through to the 1st team due to an injury to Hart. Hart has been playing in the PL for 12 years, has 70 odd England caps and has 3 times as many PL clean sheets as Pope has appearances in the PL.

How can anyone think that Nick is better than Hart. If Tom had not hurt his shoulder, we would have only seen Pope play in the cup games.

[mkmel]

Think about it guys

How on Earth can you drop a player who has been our best player in virtually every game this season?

It makes no sense

[boatshed bill]

Pope is 26 and only broke through to the 1st team due to an injury to Hart. Hart has been playing in the PL for 12 years, has 70 odd England caps and has 3 times as many PL clean sheets as Pope has appearances in the PL.

How can anyone think that Nick is better than Hart. If Tom had not hurt his shoulder, we would have only seen Pope play in the cup games.

Whilst totally agreeing with the last part of your post, you may consider the possibility that Hart is (slightly) on his way down the rankings while Pope had been on the up (prior to his injury, of course).

[Dark Cloud]

Clearly the records of the respective keepers don't in any way compare as Hart broke through early, was loaned out by City, made a real success of it, went back to City and was number one there for a good while and as rightly pointed out he subsequently has loads of England caps and PL clean sheets to his name. Pope did only get his big chance quite late and purely by fluke due to Heaton's injury. But that's not really relevant tbh because to me he really grabbed that chance with both hands (pun?) which nobody, not even SD probably, ever expected him to and having watched him for basically a whole season at PL level, in my opinion he's the best of the 3 keepers. (If fit)
However, I really don't believe any manager could seriously consider dropping Hart right now, no matter who was waiting in the wings, as he's playing exceptionally well.

[Siddo]

When did Southgate say that? Got a link?

Hi TP. I read that comment by Southgate , because it really dismayed me knowing Nick wouldn't feature in the world cup. It was in an article in the Times by Henry Winter. It was at one of the training sessions before the games started.

[Giftonsnoidea]

If he continues to play hendrick in the no.10 role i would suggest we relieve Dyche from picking the team....

Bought vydra to play thereabouts, he scores promptly and is then dropped, the next Defour in the making....

[Giftonsnoidea]

To be fair, how many times is this going to be discussed. They're professional footballers and are looking out for themselves, not playing some silly game to get Heaton back into the team.

Face the facts, 70 odd England caps against 2. Discussion over.

Did England ever win any big games when Hart played those games?

[DCWat]

Did Manchester City ever win the league when Hart was playing?

[Pstotto]

Heaton may not be back to who he was after his injury. Otherwise, I can't for a moment comprehend why we signed Jo Hart just for cover for one match. A ridiculous over-population of the goalkeeper department. Get rid in January.

Mee on Saturday had gone AWOL. Chelsea's first goal, he was fast asleep and made a half-hearted sluggish attempt to get back. Whatever happened to Burnley's intense pressing? It's as if they feel they've reached a plateau and that there's nothing left to play for, rather like Tyson' Fury being suicidal after winning the world boxing title.

[Jamesy]

Are you a relatively new fan who doesn't remember the difficult times up to 6 years ago ?

Daft question that. No I am not a relatively new fan. I am one who has seen the bad times and was one of the couple of hundred who used to travel away when we almost went out of existence. They were indeed difficult times. However I am not trying to claim Uber fan status I am merely expressing my frustration at the dross that I am watching at the moment. Instead of looking at Joe Hart as a scapegoat I simply implied that the problem lies with Dyche.

[Marvins Van]

I don't see the risk in bringing back Tom Heaton...

[fidelcastro]

Did Manchester City ever win the league when Hart was playing?

Is that a serious question?

That overplayed footage of him celebrating the "Agueroooo" goal, and you're asking that!