Brexit: Uniting the Country Since 31/01/2020

[RingoMcCartney]

Some of the recent posts on this thread certainly do have the vibe of a flat-Earther telling everyone else they're gullible idiots.

Some of the recent posts on this thread certainly do have the vibe of "final remedy" foot soldiers, boasting of their intellectual superiority.

[Lancasterclaret]

And current world affairs change that Ringo.

Do you think Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania are looking to the east and then looking west to the US under Trump and going "Hang on a sec"?

Of course they are, and its both unreasonable and showing a lack of knowledge of European history to expect European countries not to react to that.

[biggles]

A perfect example of why referendums are dangerous thing. We all know, we were all at school, with those that couldn’t or wouldn’t listen and learn, the ones that sat at the back shouting out, thinking they were funny and clever and as a child you laughed, now when you see them you tend to point them out to your children as a warning!!

you see. that's why remainers shouldn't be allowed a computer until they are at least 15. their tiny minds are too susceptible to question 100% bullshit such as the remainers arguments. i know, he's only coming out with **** like that because his teacher is a remainer.

[Lancasterclaret]

Some of the recent posts on this thread certainly do have the vibe of "final remedy" foot soldiers, boasting of their intellectual superiority.

You have no evidence but belief in what you want. Its not "intellectual superiority" to take the **** out of people who believe that much. Its perfectly normal behaviour that everyone would be doing if it was anything but Brexit.

Its like a religion to you guys.

[Greenmile]

pretty much everyone else on this thread is thick.

Nope - just most of the Brexiters. You may think folk who can't understand what evidence is, or think that the EU are trying to maintain the Good Friday Agreement just to spite the UK are bright - that's fair enough, these things are all relative after all - but I think they are either thick or dishonest, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt by calling them thick (apart from dsr)

who the **** do you think you are?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1SZMiMj5_k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm Greenmile. That's not my real name though.

[RingoMcCartney]

Christ, you think an EU army will be controlled by Germany?

Less war films, more reading about the EU if you don't mind summit

"You and I both know that the idea of an EU army is just a dangerous fantasy Nigel "

Nick "tuition fees" Clegg

Less liberal Democrat lies, more removing those europhile blinkers , if you don't mind Lancaster claret,

[Taffy on the wing]

The sooner we are self sufficient in everything we can be the better.

We were self sufficient during the Bronze age.........is that what you had in mind?

[Greenmile]

a quote from another mis-guided remainer above 'Why should the EU play fair by us? Why should they put our interests over those of their members? This was all explained before the referendum when the Brexiteers were claiming this would be the easiest deal in history but now seems to be coming as a surprise.'

so the EU mobsters are prepared, out of spite, to see a no deal brexit even though that will adversely affect their own members as it will the UK? the thick *remainers need to understand how the EU mobsters operate. it's nothing to do with the 27 nations. the Frogs and Krauts [bet that has over-loaded a few tiny remainer's brains] make the rules and dictate how the others 'vote'.

* = doesn't apply to Taio, of course, who claims it's everyone else who's thick.

oh well, brexit is happening no matter how many tears you remainers shed, no matter the heart attacks and strokes. it's happening and you lot of nasties are gonna suffer for years to come and if that is the only benefit of brexit then it's worth it!

I have to defend my good friend taio here - s/he never said that. I did (sort of)

[Colburn_Claret]

Not aimed at you, but Colburn but if the cap fits.......

But cheers for letting it all out.

If I'm annoying the Brexiteers by constantly telling them facts they would rather not deal with then I'm happy enough with that!

But you aren't giving us facts. Your recycling other people's opinions who you choose to believe. There are just as many educated, experts who disagree with you, and your experts. So you can't prove anything, and neither can I.
Too many of these experts have their own agenda anyway, so their opinion isn't worth a damn.
I think we are better off leaving the EU, because that's what my conscience and common sense tells me. I don't think leaving the EU is going to cause us any long term problems, and could lead to a much brighter future. But I didn't vote leave, so that we can be an economic giant, I voted leave because I believe we should be run by Westminster and not Brussels, I don't share your federalist pipe dream, and neither did the majority of the country.
They say there's a price to pay for freedom, they meant the cost of lives, but if the only thing you care about is the penny in your pocket, you might as well sell your soul to the devil.

[Greenmile]

...There are just as many educated, experts who disagree with you, and your experts...

No there aren't.

Thick / misinformed or dishonest? You decide.

[RingoMcCartney]

And current world affairs change that Ringo.

Do you think Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania are looking to the east and then looking west to the US under Trump and going "Hang on a sec"?

Of course they are, and its both unreasonable and showing a lack of knowledge of European history to expect European countries not to react to that.

Hey don't ask me! As your only too keen to point out , in yet another Remoaner attempt of self aggrandizement . I'm unreasonable and lack knowledge of european history!

[Taffy on the wing]

a quote from another mis-guided remainer above 'Why should the EU play fair by us? Why should they put our interests over those of their members? This was all explained before the referendum when the Brexiteers were claiming this would be the easiest deal in history but now seems to be coming as a surprise.'

so the EU mobsters are prepared, out of spite, to see a no deal brexit even though that will adversely affect their own members as it will the UK? the thick *remainers need to understand how the EU mobsters operate. it's nothing to do with the 27 nations. the Frogs and Krauts [bet that has over-loaded a few tiny remainer's brains] make the rules and dictate how the others 'vote'.

* = doesn't apply to Taio, of course, who claims it's everyone else who's thick.

oh well, brexit is happening no matter how many tears you remainers shed, no matter the heart attacks and strokes. it's happening and you lot of nasties are gonna suffer for years to come and if that is the only benefit of brexit then it's worth it!

What a complete ******!............I assume you personally stand to gain from Brexit?

[Lancasterclaret]

There are not though, that is the whole point.

You want to believe the few, rather than the many.

Why is that?

Because the few are telling you what you want to hear, not what you need to hear.

And the post you've just posted shows again that you do not have a clue about what you are talking about. I genuinely don't get it. Surely you'd provide links if you were so sure you are correct?

[RingoMcCartney]

You have no evidence but belief in what you want. Its not "intellectual superiority" to take the **** out of people who believe that much. Its perfectly normal behaviour that everyone would be doing if it was anything but Brexit.

Its like a religion to you guys.

I said I had no "evidence" Just an opinion.

I asked burnley Ace to post his "evidence" he's yet to produce. Could you oblige with some "evidence"?

[Lancasterclaret]

I can provide evidence of growth within the EU over 40 years. One google search is all that it takes.

Where is yours?

[Lancasterclaret]

Less liberal Democrat lies, more removing those europhile blinkers , if you don't mind Lancaster claret,

You need to open your eyes to world affairs Ringo.

[RingoMcCartney]

I can provide evidence of growth within the EU over 40 years. One google search is all that it takes.

Where is yours?

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

I have no evidence. Repeat. No evidence. Just an opinion.

Evidence that leaving the EU will be negative for the UK please. .

[Spiral]

They say there's a price to pay for freedom, they meant the cost of lives, but if the only thing you care about is the penny in your pocket, you might as well sell your soul to the devil.

Nice prose, but about as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike as a base for navigating complex diplomatic negotiations and rules-based systems of governance. I'm sure the revolutionaries throughout 19th and 20th century history found similar comfort in such slogans when famine kicked in.

[Lancasterclaret]

An opinion based on what?

[Jakubclaret]

Not aimed at you, but Colburn but if the cap fits.......

But cheers for letting it all out.

If I'm annoying the Brexiteers by constantly telling them facts they would rather not deal with then I'm happy enough with that!

Happy? Oh the irony, join the Brexiteers you just know it makes sense but too stubborn to admit it, I sincerely hope when Brexit turns out to be a success, you will admit you're wrong on this forum.

[Spiral]

What would you consider brexit success? (And naturally, failure.) Can it be measured empirically? Ambiguity can be a ball-ache.

[Lancasterclaret]

Happy too Jakub.

What would you call a success though? At the moment the level of Brexit success being trumpeted is along the lines of "survival".

Pretty low bar that lads don't you think?

[TVC15]

I can provide evidence of growth within the EU over 40 years. One google search is all that it takes.

Where is yours?

Yep but can you provide it for the Republic of Sunderland ?
I have heard it on good authority that “the Boche” have had a targeted strategy of decimating the R of S since 1973.

[RingoMcCartney]

Yep but can you provide it for the Republic of Sunderland ?
I have heard it on good authority that “the Boche” have had a targeted strategy of decimating the R of S since 1973.

Your putting words into my mouth. I did not say say the Germans took jobs ship building and coal mining from Sunderland. And you know it. I said successive British Governments had over indulged London and the south east and neglected the Midlands and the north as part of the grand pan european EU plan. Namely , Germany you do manufacturing and the uk does the finance. So if anybodys making stuff up its you. 

I simply asked the question , how many manufacturing jobs had been.lost in Sunderland during the 45 years of EU membership, in order to put the Nissan announcement into context. You took it upon yourself to see it as a attack on your precious EU. 

The thing is that the voters of Sunderland were asked whether they thought EU membership had been good or bad for them, their town and country. The majority agree with me and they voted Leave. 

People like you have never accepted the result and seem to feel part of the recover process is to label people as "thick" "uninformed" and "ignorant". You seem to believe that it's your God given duty to save us from ourselves and eventually we'll be eternally gratefull for the enlightenment our more sophisticated betters have given us. 

And guess what?. It's that attitude that partly helped to bring the referendum result you clearly detest. 

Have a great day.

[Jakubclaret]

What would you consider brexit success? (And naturally, failure.) Can it be measured empirically? Ambiguity can be a ball-ache.

Good question, in general a better national mood, more growth & complete control over our affairs without outside conformity, less poverty with the unemployment rate even lower, more funding going towards the NHS & public service infrastructure, do I need to continue?

[Lord Beamish]

This thread is fun...,

[RingoMcCartney]

An opinion based on what?

An opinion based on years of being initially active in politics and since reading, listening and watching current affairs and drawing my own conclusions

Now.

"Evidence" that leaving the EU will be negative for the UK please.

[Erasmus]

Colburn, I am certainly very concerned with the penny or more in the nation's pocket as this will directly affect my life and those of my family and community. The trade off for losing that valuable penny is freedom? How will I be more free? What will I be able to do that I can't do now? If it's nothing particularly valuable then I'm afraid I will certainly prioritise the penny. Freedom is important because of the benefits it brings to people not as a principle on its own. I can't see how leaving the EU will give us a type of freedom that has any benefits to offer.

[randomclaret2]

The ' uncertainty in Gibraltar ' is giving me sleepless nights.

[TVC15]

Your putting words into my mouth. I did not say say the Germans took jobs ship building and coal mining from Sunderland. And you know it. I said successive British Governments had over indulged London and the south east and neglected the Midlands and the north as part of the grand pan european EU plan. Namely , Germany you do manufacturing and the uk does the finance. So if anybodys making stuff up its you. 

I simply asked the question , how many manufacturing jobs had been.lost in Sunderland during the 45 years of EU membership, in order to put the Nissan announcement into context. You took it upon yourself to see it as a attack on your precious EU. 

The thing is that the voters of Sunderland were asked whether they thought EU membership had been good or bad for them, their town and country. The majority agree with me and they voted Leave. 

People like you have never accepted the result and seem to feel part of the recover process is to label people as "thick" "uninformed" and "ignorant". You seem to believe that it's your God given duty to save us from ourselves and eventually we'll be eternally gratefull for the enlightenment our more sophisticated betters have given us. 

And guess what?. It's that attitude that partly helped to bring the referendum result you clearly detest. 

Have a great day.

Ahhhh bless Wrongo is having some kind of Brexit breakdown.

You think I put words in your mouth simply because I was quoting the 2 biggest manufacturing sectors in Sunderland and asking you whether Germany had taken over those industries.
Yes it was a rhetorical question but given it was you who clearly said that Germany was to blame for the manufacturing decline in Sunderland yet there is absolutely zero evidence of that.

“People like me” - you know literally nothing about me. I have hardly posted anything on this board about my views on Brexit.
I just find it hilarious that “people like you” can come out with this boll-ocks and then fail to provide anything of any substance by the way of evidence to back up their warped opinions - and the reason I say warped because everyone is entitled to their opinions is just have a read of what you are actually saying. You are blaming the EU and specifically the Germans for the decline in manufacturing in sectors that were already in decline years before and that suffered more job losses as a direct result of the policies of successive British (not EU) governments.

Eh you have a great day - and watch out for those bloody Germans

(Isn’t cut and paste just super ?!!)

[Spiral]

Good question, in general a better national mood, more growth & complete control over our affairs without outside conformity, less poverty with the unemployment rate even lower, more funding going towards the NHS & public service infrastructure, do I need to continue?

'National mood' is a laughable answer. If you're miserable, take some responsibility and get your life together rather than palming off your problems to phantom enemies. Half of the country detests the other half's politics and there's a resentment and sense of injustice amongst the young in particular.

Growth will be inhibited by barriers to trade (basic tenet of economics than can be demonstrated by lemonade stall examples)

'Control over affairs' is quite nebulous, (deliberately, I suspect), but in any case, compromise, cooperation, and yes, ceding limited sovereignty is the price for a better life. You cede your own sovereignty to parliamentarians, the laws of the land, some of which you no doubt disagree with. The only real sovereignty is the agency which exists in one's own mind so unless you're going to define 'affairs' in a way which actually reflects reality and, more importantly, realpolitik, I remain unconvinced of this being a brexit success.

Poverty, unemployment, infrastructure and public service investment are 100% domestic concerns solved domestically.

Utterly laughable attempt at defining brexit success.

[biggles]

ringo. you are wasting your time; save your keyboard. you won't get through to them. they are too thick to understand.
they say things like 'the UK in the EU has benefited in such and such a way'. they don't possess the intellect to ask 'but how well would the UK have done outside the EU'. their little brains won't or maybe, can't compute anything other than EU bullshit. they believe all that is said in favour of the EU and don't possess the mental capacity to question any of it. it's like ' the EU say that the EU is brilliant' ergo it's a fact and I won't question it and I will spread that bullshit ad nauseam. just try to go along with it and try to keep away from the simpletons until 29 March when they will probably want to end it all. poor dears. you gotta show some empathy here.

[Jakubclaret]

'National mood' is a laughable answer. If you're miserable, take some responsibility and get your life together rather than palming off your problems to phantom enemies. Half of the country detests the other half's politics and there's a resentment and sense of injustice amongst the young in particular.

Growth will be inhibited by barriers to trade (basic tenet of economics than can be demonstrated by lemonade stall examples)

'Control over affairs' is quite nebulous, (deliberately, I suspect), but in any case, compromise, cooperation, and yes, ceding limited sovereignty is the price for a better life. You cede your own sovereignty to parliamentarians, the laws of the land, some of which you no doubt disagree with. The only real sovereignty is the agency which exists in one's own mind so unless you're going to define 'affairs' in a way which actually reflects reality and, more importantly, realpolitik, I remain unconvinced of this being a brexit success.

Poverty, unemployment, infrastructure and public service investment are 100% domestic concerns solved domestically.

Utterly laughable attempt at defining brexit success.

You obviously have no idea stating unemployment is a domestic affair, whilst being in EU our own indigenous citizens have suffered as a result of the UK being in the EU finding employment due to the mass immigration & open door policy. 1 of the four freedoms
Utterly laughable attempt at recognising & more importantly understanding people's concerns, it must be a very sheltered enclave where you reside.

[RingoMcCartney]

Ahhhh bless Wrongo is having some kind of Brexit breakdown.

You think I put words in your mouth simply because I was quoting the 2 biggest manufacturing sectors in Sunderland and asking you whether Germany had taken over those industries.
Yes it was a rhetorical question but given it was you who clearly said that Germany was to blame for the manufacturing decline in Sunderland yet there is absolutely zero evidence of that.

“People like me” - you know literally nothing about me. I have hardly posted anything on this board about my views on Brexit.
I just find it hilarious that “people like you” can come out with this boll-ocks and then fail to provide anything of any substance by the way of evidence to back up their warped opinions - and the reason I say warped because everyone is entitled to their opinions is just have a read of what you are actually saying. You are blaming the EU and specifically the Germans for the decline in manufacturing in sectors that were already in decline years before and that suffered more job losses as a direct result of the policies of successive British (not EU) governments.

Eh you have a great day - and watch out for those bloody Germans

(Isn’t cut and paste just super ?!!)

Triggered......

[martin_p]

Why do you think it would be easier or better for the U.K. to negotiate as an individual country rather than as part of the EU?

What freedoms (for the general populace) have the EU curtailed?

What ruling of the ECJ do you find weird?

What fiscal policy has the U.K. government been unable to use because of the EU?

Why do you think that the U.K. was going to join a Euro army? Even if we were how would that be different to a joint NATO exercise?

Notice none of the Brexiteers have attempted to answer these questions. No surprises there then!

[martin_p]

ringo. you are wasting your time; save your keyboard. you won't get through to them. they are too thick to understand.
they say things like 'the UK in the EU has benefited in such and such a way'. they don't possess the intellect to ask 'but how well would the UK have done outside the EU'. their little brains won't or maybe, can't compute anything other than EU bullshit. they believe all that is said in favour of the EU and don't possess the mental capacity to question any of it. it's like ' the EU say that the EU is brilliant' ergo it's a fact and I won't question it and I will spread that bullshit ad nauseam. just try to go along with it and try to keep away from the simpletons until 29 March when they will probably want to end it all. poor dears. you gotta show some empathy here.

Go on then, I’m all ears, how would the U.K. have done outside the EU. Don’t forget Wrongo will want to see evidence.

[RingoMcCartney]

The "final remedy " storm troopers are having communal hissy fit!

[TVC15]

Triggered......

Aye - course you have....well done

[Spiral]

You obviously have no idea stating unemployment is a domestic affair, whilst being in EU our own indigenous citizens have suffered as a result of the UK being in the EU finding employment due to the mass immigration & open door policy. 1 of the four freedoms
Utterly laughable attempt at recognising & more importantly understanding people's concerns, it must be a very sheltered enclave where you reside.

Council estate in Colne. Lived in council houses all my life. Worked min wage jobs, worked in factories with foreign workers. The people who complain about foreign workers making life difficult for them from my experiences are more often that not bone-idle useless chancers who can't take responsibility for the fact they're borderline-unemployable.

[martin_p]

You obviously have no idea stating unemployment is a domestic affair, whilst being in EU our own indigenous citizens have suffered as a result of the UK being in the EU finding employment due to the mass immigration & open door policy. 1 of the four freedoms
Utterly laughable attempt at recognising & more importantly understanding people's concerns, it must be a very sheltered enclave where you reside.

The employment level is at a record high, unemployment at a 45 year low.

[RingoMcCartney]

A video has emerged of Jeremy Corbyn describing the EU as a “massive, great Frankenstein” and attacking the idea of second referendums.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-5879503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh Jeremy Corbyn! Oh Jeremy Corbyn!!

[Jakubclaret]

Council estate on the outside of Colne. Lived in council houses all my life. Worked min wage jobs, worked in factories with foreign workers. The people who complain about foreign workers making life difficult for them are from my experiences, more often that not, bone-idle useless chancers who can't take responsibility for the fact they're borderline unemployable.

So you say, I don't believe you not that you care. Plenty of honest hardworking Brits would love the opportunity to earn a decent wage but due to cultural differences the living arrangements are far different they need above the minimum wage in order to live, as opposed to cramming a house & doing everything communal. If I was a employer would I prefer to pay £8 p/h or in excess of 12p/h.

[ClaretAndJew]

A video has emerged of Jeremy Corbyn describing the EU as a “massive, great Frankenstein” and attacking the idea of second referendums.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-5879503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh Jeremy Corbyn! Oh Jeremy Corbyn!!

A second referendum of the Lisbon Treaty in Ireland in 2009

[Jakubclaret]

The employment level is at a record high, unemployment at a 45 year low.

I can believe that exploiting cheap labour, don't think that little nugget of information is assisting your pro EU agenda, but heads up for the sagely info

[scouseclaret]

But you aren't giving us facts. Your recycling other people's opinions who you choose to believe. There are just as many educated, experts who disagree with you, and your experts. So you can't prove anything, and neither can I.
Too many of these experts have their own agenda anyway, so their opinion isn't worth a damn.
I think we are better off leaving the EU, because that's what my conscience and common sense tells me. I don't think leaving the EU is going to cause us any long term problems, and could lead to a much brighter future. But I didn't vote leave, so that we can be an economic giant, I voted leave because I believe we should be run by Westminster and not Brussels, I don't share your federalist pipe dream, and neither did the majority of the country.
They say there's a price to pay for freedom, they meant the cost of lives, but if the only thing you care about is the penny in your pocket, you might as well sell your soul to the devil.

The first bit simply isn’t true. The vast majority of economists, industrialist and even politicians think it’s a terrible idea - the Minfords and Dysons are relatively rare exceptions.

And as I pointed out in my last post (which no Brexiteer has Yet provided answers to) the “ruled by Brussels” thing is a myth. Recent history is riddled with examples of Britain choosing adifferent path to the rest of Europe. We have plenty enough sovereignty to choose not to go along with any “federalist dream” - real or imagined - without trashing the benefits of economic integration.

[RingoMcCartney]

A second referendum of the Lisbon Treaty in Ireland in 2009

Correct.

The video shows shows Corbyn speaking to a rally of No voters during the Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.

In it he blasts the EU, saying he did “not want to live in a European empire of the 21st century” and, in a blow to those wanting him to back a second Brexit referendum, describes such votes as “keep[ing] on voting until they get the answer they want”.

Jeremy Farage!

[Spiral]

So you say, I don't believe you not that you care. Plenty of honest hardworking Brits would love the opportunity to earn a decent wage but due to cultural differences the living arrangements are far different they need above the minimum wage in order to live, as opposed to cramming a house & doing everything communal. If I was a employer would I prefer to pay £8 p/h or in excess of 12p/h.

If only there was a way to improve the lot of the "indigenous" (shudder) without destroying our manufacturing and services industry...

How about enforcing labour standards and coming up with a decent housing policy? Nah, soz fam, that's socialism. Choo choo, all aboard the serf train!

[nil_desperandum]

The ' uncertainty in Gibraltar ' is giving me sleepless nights.

Let me hazard a guess: you don't live on Gibraltar. Right?
Would I be accused of exaggeration if I were to suggest that no one on this board is losing sleep over this particular issue.
I'm not losing sleep over the loss of potential Nissan contracts in Sunderland, but if I was employed by them I might be at least a little concerned, and I might be pointing the finger at those people in my constituency who voted leave despite the fact that Sunderland, has virtually no immigrants, had benefited more than almost any part of the country from EU funding and was very reliant on Nissan.

[martin_p]

I can believe that exploiting cheap labour, don't think that little nugget of information is assisting your pro EU agenda, but heads up for the sagely info

Which is entirely down to domestic policy.

[keith1879]

The first bit simply isn’t true. The vast majority of economists, industrialist and even politicians think it’s a terrible idea - the Minfords and Dysons are relatively rare exceptions.

And as I pointed out in my last post (which no Brexiteer has Yet provided answers to) the “ruled by Brussels” thing is a myth. Recent history is riddled with examples of Britain choosing adifferent path to the rest of Europe. We have plenty enough sovereignty to choose not to go along with any “federalist dream” - real or imagined - without trashing the benefits of economic integration.

I've just worked out what these threads remind me of ......the moon flight conspiracy forums. It doesn't matter how many times you point out that all the physical and physiological problems of flying to the moon, landing and returning have been demonstrably overcome (largely with military technology developed or initiated during the last war and the following cold war) the conspiracy theorists just say "Ah but that proves it".

You just can't win these arguments ....the best strategy is to stay calm and let the Brexiteers make themselves look ridiculous. (Which they always do).