Unite behind Brexit says May.

[Sidney1st]

Plus they'll have to run a lot of this through Parliment, or at the very least Parliment will know about it and use it to bash the Tories with.

I can't see Labour keeping quiet about this sort of stuff happening.

[aggi]

I guess some of the concerns about employee rights arise from Tories like
Grant Shapps http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40703.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David Cameron http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... meron.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Liam Fox http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40703.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
etc with the recurring theme of it needs to be easier to get rid of people

As I pointed out above, these changes from EU law may not even go through Parliamentary scrutiny (hopefully with an acceptable source for those who like to cherry pick).

[Sidney1st]

It does to a degree though, because some workers are shockingly bad, take the mick and need firing.
That's my personal view after years of working with people who continuously take sick days to suit themselves, usually a Friday or Monday depending on their weekend plans and companies struggle to get rid of them.

I currently work for a company that actually pays sick pay for x amount of days a year and I find that really weird, because I'm so used to working for companies that don't pay it.

[taio]

It does to a degree though, because some workers are shockingly bad, take the mick and need firing.
That's my personal view after years of working with people who continuously take sick days to suit themselves, usually a Friday or Monday depending on their weekend plans and companies struggle to get rid of them.

I currently work for a company that actually pays sick pay for x amount of days a year and I find that really weird, because I'm so used to working for companies that don't pay it.

May be there should be laws against posting relentlessly on football forums during working hours

[Sidney1st]

Might as well just turn the forum off between certain hours then

[taio]

Might as well just turn the forum off between certain hours then

Nah, because not everyone works during weekdays and if they do they might manage an odd post. It was jestingly aimed at any odd poster who finds the time during work to post relentlessly.

[AndrewJB]

In "Britannia Unchained" - published in 2012, and written by several Conservative MPs - British workers are referred to as the "worst idlers" and are accused of working the fewest hours (when even then Briton's worked the longest hours in the EU). What they meant of course was in comparison with Chinese and Indian workers. Working rights were reduced after Cameron become PM in 2010. There is no doubt many Tory MPs would like to see a reduction in workers rights, and Brexit will provide an opportunity to push these reductions through without scrutiny.

As or this idea that we have no viable opposition - of course we do. Most of the media won't report Corbyn, except for in negative ways, but the Labour Party appear to be united on the matter of safeguarding workers rights and freedoms.

[CrosspoolClarets]

One of the biggest jokes about this whole affair, epitomised by Clegg the other day, is the sense that we can't risk being truly democratic because that would leave the Tories to run riot burning all our worker's rights legislation.

Call me a traditionalist, but what is wrong with going back to decades of successful UK politics, one party getting in, ballsing it up, and being replaced by another? If the Tories go too far, Labour get in. If they go too far, the Tories get in. Every now and then, we have a coalition.

Or perhaps we should let the EU decide our rights, despite the working culture in most countries being radically different to ours? It just seems like insanity to think that could be better.

[Spiral]

It does to a degree though, because some workers are shockingly bad, take the mick and need firing.
That's my personal view after years of working with people who continuously take sick days to suit themselves, usually a Friday or Monday depending on their weekend plans and companies struggle to get rid of them.

You won't find much sympathy for the bone idle from me. However, after Dacre, Murdoch and the other Tory propaganda mouthpieces have carefully cultivated the necessary political climate, such logic will be used as a trojan horse to remove rights such as statutory redundancy pay, agency workers' 12-week rights, transfer of undertakings rights, etc. Choo choo, all aboard the serf train. I'm just calling Brexit a cult at this point.

The most disappointing thing for me is the way in which Brexit has been sold as a grassroots movement when in my opinion it has actually been orchestrated by old money concerned about the increase in size and strength of the lobbies within the EU attempting to empower the proletariat.

[HatfieldClaret]

At what point do those who doubted Brexit, whether it be Clegg/Farron or Joe Public, decide that we must now hope that our politicians negotiate hard for a good deal for Britain.

I do get the distinct impression that there are some that are working hard to make it fail.

As Brexit has been triggered the options are .. 1.No deal, 2. bad deal, 3. good deal or 4. roll over and ask to stay.

Options 2 and 4 don't appeal to me.

[Sidney1st]

I do get the distinct impression that there are some that are working hard to make it fail.

Gina Miller is gearing up for another court case of course, about the Great Repeal Bill.

She doesn't believe the government should be able to drop all the current existing EU laws/legislation straight into British law.
I'm not really sure what her issue is about it tbh.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/786062 ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AndrewJB]

It's more than just that, Sidney. They're also making it possible for the laws to be altered by ministers. As far as I'm aware nobody in the government has promised to leave the rights and freedoms as they are. I doubt many people who voted for Brexit voted for this.

[USC]

At what point do those who doubted Brexit, whether it be Clegg/Farron or Joe Public, decide that we must now hope that our politicians negotiate hard for a good deal for Britain. ... the options are .. 1.No deal, 2. bad deal, 3. good deal or 4. roll over and ask to stay.

I think Clegg/Farron's (and others') point is they want 'option 3', but there is a difference of opinion as to what constitutes a good deal!

[Spijed]

One of the biggest jokes about this whole affair, epitomised by Clegg the other day, is the sense that we can't risk being truly democratic because that would leave the Tories to run riot burning all our worker's rights legislation.

Call me a traditionalist, but what is wrong with going back to decades of successful UK politics, one party getting in, ballsing it up, and being replaced by another? If the Tories go too far, Labour get in. If they go too far, the Tories get in. Every now and then, we have a coalition.

Or perhaps we should let the EU decide our rights, despite the working culture in most countries being radically different to ours? It just seems like insanity to think that could be better.

The problem with that is that no government hardly ever overturn any laws set-up by the previous administration. So once they get on the books, laws tend to stay forever.

[Spiral]

Gina Miller is gearing up for another court case of course, about the Great Repeal Bill.

She doesn't believe the government should be able to drop all the current existing EU laws/legislation straight into British law.
I'm not really sure what her issue is about it tbh.

That's because the Express isn't faithfully reporting her quotes. It's how propaganda works, if the abundance of adjectives in the article wasn't a clear enough red flag that you're reading propaganda.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... epeal-bill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She said she was profoundly worried about the use of so-called Henry VIII legislation -- which gives more authority to ministers.

“The government is saying it can use these powers but they could well be undemocratic and a power grab,” Miller said in an email. “The complexity of the issue may require the courts to give legal certainty.”

I believe aggi also posted a FT article earlier in the thread commenting on these concerns.

[RingoMcCartney]

The tories under thatcher crushed union power . They ended closed shop arrangements. Remember newspapers using scab labour? They used the police to destroy the miners. They repealed many of the protections that workers had fought to secure .

Labour then had 13 years to restore those hard earned rights

They did sweat jack sh1t.

Oh hang on. They bailed out their new found chums, the banksters. And left generations of tax payers straddled with the bill.

Gordon Brown and labour - they had a updated version of socialism. The redistribution of debt....

[summitclaret]

Having watched Farron interviewed the other night by the brilliant Andrew Nield, I am convinced that Farron wants us to fail so we can go back begging the EU to let us stay in.

The word democrat needs to be removed from his party's name on the grounds of avoiding breaching trade descriptions

NIck Von Clegg was the same on the special Question Time the other night.

Everyone needs to get behind our negoitating team.

[Spijed]

The tories under thatcher crushed union power . They ended closed shop arrangements. Remember newspapers using scab labour? They used the police to destroy the miners. They repealed many of the protections that workers had fought to secure .

Labour then had 13 years to restore those hard earned rights

They did sweat jack sh1t.

Oh hang on. They bailed out their new found chums, the banksters. And left generations of tax payers straddled with the bill.

Gordon Brown and labour - they had a updated version of socialism. The redistribution of debt....

Haven't the current government increased the levels of debt far more than Labour did?

[summitclaret]

"Haven't the current government increased the levels of debt far more than Labour did?"

Probably true, but they were until recently trying to balance the annual books, which I agree with but not as fast as Osbourne wanted to. You have to stop the madness somewhere.

For too long we had been acting like 1960's students on free grants, drugs etc and like the credit card generation and had to stop.

[Spiral]

and like the credit card generation and had to stop.

Here's an interesting tidbit for all you macroeconomic ignoramuses. David Cameron once prepared a speech where he proposed that the citizens of this country pay off their credit cards and 'live within their means', (the political reasoning is obvious), before being told by his advisers to drop this line lest the plebs actually take heed and clear all their debt, potentially bringing about another grand liquidity crisis; for a debt-focused economy without debt isn't a economy at all.

edit-source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -card-call" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

Haven't the current government increased the levels of debt far more than Labour did?

Yes

Each government builds it's foundations on the previous one's ruins.