What does it cost to become Prime Minister?

[jlup1980]

It eliminates any possibility of Corbyn ruining the economy

Are you trying to suggest that the Tories haven't already done this?

Need I point out that In 2010 the Tories promised to eliminate the deficit by 2015? What's actually happened in the intervening years is they've created more new public debt than every single Labour government in history combined and have admitted that they won't be able to clear the deficit until at least 2021 (but come on, who actually believes them given their record?). That's clearly "strong and stable" economic management at its best.

They've also presided over the longest sustained decline in wages since records began and not built enough new affordable housing to deal with the increase in net migration since 2010. At it's most basic level they're asking everyone to pay more with less. How does that work? Which economic genius came up with that plan?!

Our economy is already broken massively and if your only comment is a flippant one about Corbyn then you're just not opening your eyes.

[If it be your will]

.

[If it be your will]

.

[RingoMcCartney]

Its like you don't want to read beyond what you know Ringo.

All the points you make are valid, but you are not wanting to see the links between the Good Friday Agreement and the UK Government. We have guaranteed to be a neutral judge in Northern Ireland devolution.

An electoral pact with the DUP makes such neutrality impossible.

Again, whats more important?

Theresa May and the Tories staying in power, or the Good Friday Agreement?

James obrian is infantile more often than not.

1. The extra money is going to NI. Not the DUP. To be spent in a way that benefit both communities.

2. He said ,yesterday , that if there's another election soon. The DUP will wave a 1.5 billion cheque and try to get more votes saying "look what we got!" How many extra votes will the DUP get, does LBCs resident communist think, from the nationist/Catholic !!? I'll tell him-NONE!

3 if the 29 June deadline for power sharing isn't agrees. Stormont will be under direct rule from Westminster.

[RingoMcCartney]

You know in the Burnley Express when it has those little snippets:

After a disturbance outside Macdonald's, Smith, 54, of Swinless Street, was charged with common assault against Hirst, 48. Hirst was charged with affray.

...does everyone else laugh as well? At old blokes scrapping round town?

You know on Up The Clarets when some ones trolling around trying to get a reaction..........

[Damo]

Are you trying to suggest that the Tories haven't already done this?

Need I point out that In 2010 the Tories promised to eliminate the deficit by 2015? What's actually happened in the intervening years is they've created more new public debt than every single Labour government in history combined and have admitted that they won't be able to clear the deficit until at least 2021 (but come on, who actually believes them given their record?). That's clearly "strong and stable" economic management at its best.

They've also presided over the longest sustained decline in wages since records began and not built enough new affordable housing to deal with the increase in net migration since 2010. At it's most basic level they're asking everyone to pay more with less. How does that work? Which economic genius came up with that plan?!

Our economy is already broken massively and if your only comment is a flippant one about Corbyn then you're just not opening your eyes.

So we aren't allowed to blame Labour for the economic crash, but we are allowed to blame the Tories for managing the stabilization of the economy post crash?
That's typical of you corbynites, youbsimply manage figures in whichever way suits your agenda. Thankfully most sensible people can see right through the bovine business.
Here's your deficit figures post 2010

IMG_20170602_114617.jpg (171.77 KiB) Viewed 3258 times

Corbyns plans of high taxation, large spending, and issuing bonds will cripple the country.
For the small sum of £1 billion (the cost of running the public sector for just 12 hours) his plans will never see the light of day.
There's your one good thing about the deal with the DUP

[Greenmile]

So we aren't allowed to blame Labour for the economic crash, but we are allowed to blame the Tories for managing the stabilization of the economy post crash?
That's typical of you corbynites, youbsimply manage figures in whichever way suits your agenda. Thankfully most sensible people can see right through the bovine business.
Here's your deficit figures post 2010

IMG_20170602_114617.jpg

Corbyns plans of high taxation, large spending, and issuing bonds will cripple the country.
For the small sum of £1 billion (the cost of running the public sector for just 12 hours) his plans will never see the light of day.
There's your one good thing about the deal with the DUP

Why are right wingers so quick to share misleading "statistics"? I don't see this kind of dishonesty from the left. Do I have a blind spot?

https://fullfact.org/economy/big-meanin ... fographic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"That's typical of you corbynites, youbsimply manage figures in whichever way suits your agenda."

[Lancasterclaret]

I've tried three times Ringo but you clearly don't want to read it.

Its about the neutrality of the UK Govt and the Good Friday Agreement.

[aggi]

So we aren't allowed to blame Labour for the economic crash, but we are allowed to blame the Tories for managing the stabilization of the economy post crash?
That's typical of you corbynites, youbsimply manage figures in whichever way suits your agenda. Thankfully most sensible people can see right through the bovine business.
Here's your deficit figures post 2010

IMG_20170602_114617.jpg

Corbyns plans of high taxation, large spending, and issuing bonds will cripple the country.
For the small sum of £1 billion (the cost of running the public sector for just 12 hours) his plans will never see the light of day.
There's your one good thing about the deal with the DUP

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/educatio ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You may want to run some of those figures through an inflation calculator to get numbers that can be compared (ignoring the different sources for them, etc)

[Damo]

Why are right wingers so quick to share misleading "statistics"? I don't see this kind of dishonesty from the left. Do I have a blind spot?

https://fullfact.org/economy/big-meanin ... fographic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"That's typical of you corbynites, youbsimply manage figures in whichever way suits your agenda."

This from your own link

IMG_20170627_143133.jpg (342.08 KiB) Viewed 3222 times

Not a million miles out was it?
Much less misleading than the statement I replied to.
Hardly seems worth your while saving it for months to be honest

[Greenmile]

This from your own link

IMG_20170627_143133.jpg

Not a million miles out was it?
Much less misleading than the statement I replied to.
Hardly seems worth your while saving it for months to be honest

I thought I'd seen your infographic exposed as misleading before, so I googled it. Just because it's partly wrong in favour of the point you're trying to make, doesn't make it any less wrong.

[nil_desperandum]

Corbyns plans of high taxation, large spending, and issuing bonds will cripple the country.
For the small sum of £1 billion (the cost of running the public sector for just 12 hours) his plans will never see the light of day.
There's your one good thing about the deal with the DUP

Damo. Let me spell out the obvious to you one more time, and this has nothing to do with whether you are right wing or left wing. It's just simple facts, logic and commonsense. Most Conservatives can see this as clearly as can those who support the other parties.
There is no way on this earth that the DUP would have voted with Corbyn in this Parliament, (indeed for all the reasons that you state), and therefore as a consequence they would have continued to vote with the Tories as they invariably have done over the past decade.
It should therefore be pretty easy for you to see that May need not have made a formal agreement with the DUP that costs us all money and is very likely to put the stability and security of Ireland at risk, and also infuriate the Welsh, the Scots and the poorer communities in England.
Let me give you a very simple analogy. The likelihood of the DUP MPs voting with Corbyn to defeat the Tories in the commons was about the same as either me or you, suddenly deciding to turn our backs on the Clarets and start watching Blackburn Rovers. As someone else said, "No deal" would have been a far better option for the Tories and the country than "a bad deal."

[jlup1980]

We can all throw stats and figures at each other till we're blue in the face. I can bring UK National Debt along if I like, I mean that's increased by more than 50% since 2010, but the Tories will blame that on Labour as well because it's what they do. It's the one thing I've learnt about them over the years. When Labour are in power everything that goes wrong is Labours fault. When the Tories are in power everything that goes wrong is Labours fault. They're the party who can't / won't take responsibility or admit that they've messed up. This DUP deal is a sham. An absolute sham.

[RingoMcCartney]

I've tried three times Ringo but you clearly don't want to read it.

Its about the neutrality of the UK Govt and the Good Friday Agreement.

Fair enough lancs. Let's park it here then.

[CnBtruntru]

Your Soul.

[mkmel]

Remember this?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/r ... e-10690896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Damo]

I thought I'd seen your infographic exposed as misleading before, so I googled it. Just because it's partly wrong in favour of the point you're trying to make, doesn't make it any less wrong.

My point is still completely valid though. Despite the infographic being ever so slightly incorrect.

[joey13]

And just what is racist about my post Joey?

Everything I say is true.

Louise Casey produced a 154 report for the government. She said-

Casey said she considered it an uncontested fact that children in Rotherham were “sexually exploited by men who came largely from the Pakistani heritage community” and that not enough was done to acknowledge this, stop it happening, protect children, support victims and apprehend perpetrators.

Casey found that council staff and councillors lacked the confidence to tackle difficult issues “for fear of being seen as racist or upsetting community cohesion”.

Concluding, Casey’s 154-page report said: “The council’s culture is unhealthy: bullying, sexism, suppression and misplaced ‘political correctness’ have cemented its failures.

When concerns were raised about children being exploited and sexually abused in the towns council meeting by concerned councillors. They were met with hissing and shouts of "racist" and "shame on you"

So before you accuse people of spouting "racist bile". Do a bit of research and get your facts right .

So you actually denying you are a racist ?

[Damo]

We can all throw stats and figures at each other till we're blue in the face. I can bring UK National Debt along if I like, I mean that's increased by more than 50% since 2010, but the Tories will blame that on Labour as well because it's what they do. It's the one thing I've learnt about them over the years. When Labour are in power everything that goes wrong is Labours fault. When the Tories are in power everything that goes wrong is Labours fault. They're the party who can't / won't take responsibility or admit that they've messed up. This DUP deal is a sham. An absolute sham.

Your just rehashing your first comment.
My answer is still the same.
You cannot blame the Tories for the debt created by the economic crash, any more than you can blame Labour for causing it.

[Damo]

Damo. Let me spell out the obvious to you one more time,

You can try. But first you will have to point out where you have addressed me on this matter previously.

Also, it doesn't matter what the voting intentions of the DUP would normally be. Without a deal in place, the government would be in a seriously precarious situation

[nil_desperandum]

You can try. But first you will have to point out where you have addressed me on this matter previously.

Also, it doesn't matter what the voting intentions of the DUP would normally be. Without a deal in place, the government would be in a seriously precarious situation

I didn't address you personally on this, and there's no logical reason why I would - this is a forum, but I've explained this at least twice on this thread, (which one can only assume you have read), and others have made the same point.
You still don't get it. The "deal" actually puts them in a more precarious position than if there wasn't one, because they now have to go back to the DUP every time they want a favour / deal, and each time the DUP can demand more.
Up till now they could pretty much take it for granted that the DUP would support them. (You, yourself have pointed out why they wouldn't vote with Corbyn, and if they abstain then Theresa May still has a mathematical majority).
In any case, despite the "deal", the DUP MPs are no more bound to vote with the Tory frontbench than the Tory backbenchers. The basic "deal" is that the DUP will support the Government on votes where, if the Tories were defeated, it could bring down the Government or be against national interest. That includes confidence votes, the autumn Budget and issues of national security.
The deal does not cover day-to-day voting, so the DUP does not have to back every Government bill, and whilst the Tories can generally rely on the DUP members, it only needs the right wing of the Tory party to (e.g.) insist on a "hard border" restricting freedom of movement across the Irish border, and let's see how strong this "alliance" is.
Ultimately, however, the bottom line is that the "deal" appears to be a breach of the "Good Friday" agreement, and as many on this thread and former Tory Ministers have pointed out. This is very serious.

[Greenmile]

My point is still completely valid though. Despite the infographic being ever so slightly incorrect.

If your point was valid, you wouldn't need to try to back it up with fake stats.

And when you present said stats with a claim that "Corbynites" manage (massage?) figures to suit their agenda, it just exposes your hypocrisy.

[RingoMcCartney]

So you actually denying you are a racist ?

Yes.

Explain to me , what is discriminatory, towards another race, about the post.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I hope we don't get Rotherham in the cup. Ringo would destroy the player ratings thread.

[joey13]

Yes.

Explain to me , what is discriminatory, towards another race, about the post.

I wouldn't need to explain it if you wasn't a racist

[Sidney1st]

I wouldn't need to explain it if you wasn't a racist

Explain it for me then.

[RingoMcCartney]

I wouldn't need to explain it if you wasn't a racist

No go on. Enlighten me. What was discriminatory, to another race, about my post.?

[mkmel]

No Ringo's politics may be to the right of Genghis Khan but I don't think he's a racist

[joey13]

No go on. Enlighten me. What was discriminatory, to another race, about my post.?

Ok why have you brought up the horrific abuse of those poor girls in Rotherham on this thread when it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread , was it so you could have another go at Pakistanis .

[Sidney1st]

I thought he was having a go at Labour personally.

[mkmel]

I thought he was saying that the Labour MP in Rotherham was keeping schtum about the grooming and rapes of the young girls purely to win the votes of the Pakistani community

Now if I have interpreted his words correctly then that I would say is quite a serious accusation

[RingoMcCartney]

Ok why have you brought up the horrific abuse of those poor girls in Rotherham on this thread when it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread , was it so you could have another go at Pakistanis .

1. The left were getting on their high horse and accusing the Tories of buying power/government / a majority with a deal that secured money for NI.

2. I pointed out that in Rotherham (and Rochdale) the authorities had colluded with local politicians to maintain the status quo of Labour controlled councils and MPs. In other words turn a blind eye to systematic child abuse by Pakistani men, of predominantly white British children. "Social cohesion" "community relations" "cultural sensitivities" and "LIFESTYLE CHOICES" were more important than protecting vulnerable children.

3. I provided official sources to back up my assertions. I cited extracts , from a 154 page report by Louise Casey for the government.

4. This was to show that the left was accusing the Tories of bribing their way to securing power. Using money. I was and still am, accusing Labour, of securing MPs in at least 2 northern towns that we have proof of. The price? Industrial scale child abuse.

Which is worse? The people of Northern Ireland getting a billion pound infra structure boost? And yes ! It's been done to secure Mays position !

Or. Literally thousands of lives and families being destroyed permanently. In order to guarantee the votes of the Pakistani community goes to Labour?

It's not about race. Unless you want it to be.

It's about hypocrisy.......

[Spijed]

Which is worse? The people of Northern Ireland getting a billion pound infra structure boost? And yes ! It's been done to secure Mays position !

Or. Literally thousands of lives and families being destroyed permanently. In order to guarantee the votes of the Pakistani community goes to Labour?

It's not about race. Unless you want it to be.

It's about hypocrisy.......

Well, the Protestants , and yes, Catholics as well have allowed child abuse to go unpunished for decades, even knowing those involved.

I'd say that's just as bad, if not worse.

[Devils_Advocate]

Ringo sounds like the kind of numptie who'd get p*ssed off with the colour of his sh*t cos it doesnt fit in with his life views

[martin_p]

Which is worse? The people of Northern Ireland getting a billion pound infra structure boost? And yes ! It's been done to secure Mays position !

Or. Literally thousands of lives and families being destroyed permanently. In order to guarantee the votes of the Pakistani community goes to Labour?

It's not about race. Unless you want it to be.

It's about hypocrisy.......

Wow, you really believe that the Rotherham case was all about 'guaranteeing votes'! That's despite the fact that the report you cite doesn't come to that conclusion and despite the fact that it fundamentally doesn't make sense in a constituency that has a huge Labour majority and doesn't need to be worrying about 'guaranteeing votes'.

And hey, guess what, 'lefties' think that what went on in Rotherham and the way it was handled was horrendous. But apparently because a Labour council did a bad thing which everyone thought was horrendous it's then hypocritical to think that anything else done any another party is also bad.

[RingoMcCartney]

Oh well, if you can't beat them join them!

You're wrong because I say you are and because you're wrong you're clearly comfortable with the abuse of young girls. I'm not going to backup my argument you'll just have to accept I'm right.

During the course of yesterday I've repeatedly asked the moderators to remove this post you made.

They haven't.

I would have thought that when one person accuses another of being,

"Clearly comfortable with the abuse of young girls." 

Which is not only deeply offensive, without foundation, crass, well beyond reasonable argument, opinion/banter
and sick. And without question fundamentally wrong. But it over steps the accepted norms of what can and cannot be said on a public forum.

They would have took the opportunity to remove it.

So, as youve over stepped the mark, it just leaves me no option to describe you for what you are.

SUBHUMAN S C U M

And like I've said previously. If you tried to say it to my face. You wouldn't get to the end of the sentence.

Now. Do both of us a favour Martin and stop bothering me on this message board

[Lancasterclaret]

I thought he was saying that the Labour MP in Rotherham was keeping schtum about the grooming and rapes of the young girls purely to win the votes of the Pakistani community

Bear in mind that the MP successfully sued the UKIP candidate who tried to claim that.

And Ringo, you can "park" the debate if you want, but ignoring the points I was making doesn't make them any less valid

[starting_11]

If she puts more money into public services in a bid to end austerity - does this count as buying the PM position too?

[RingoMcCartney]

Bear in mind that the MP successfully sued the UKIP candidate who tried to claim that.

And Ringo, you can "park" the debate if you want, but ignoring the points I was making doesn't make them any less valid

I've said my piece lancs. And to be fair to you, you can give as good as you get without stooping to disgusting accusations.

I never lose sight of the fact that this is a football message board with about 20 or so regulars on the political related threads. So in the big picture it's all pretty irrelevant.

But what Martin said about me is beyond acceptable.

Her report led to the resignation of the entire council cabinet when it was published.

I'm leaving it at that.

[martin_p]

I've said my piece lancs. And to be fair to you, you can give as good as you get without stooping to disgusting accusations.

I never lose sight of the fact that this is a football message board with about 20 or so regulars on the political related threads. So in the big picture it's all pretty irrelevant.

But what Martin said about me is beyond acceptable.

Her report led to the resignation of the entire council cabinet when it was published.

I'm leaving it at that.

I really shouldn't have to explain this, but I was clearly paraphrasing your previous reply when to said that the 'uncomfortable truth had touched a raw nerve' and that I was sweeping the report under the table. The snide insinuation is clear, I just made it more explicit when aping your reply.

I'm perfectly comfortable about your opinion of me by the way, in fact it's cheered me up no end on a miserable rainy day.

[aggi]

I was curious about Ringo's definite statements that Labour had effectively bribed the Pakistani population of Rotherham to vote for them by closing down child abuse investigations. Quite apart from how far-fetched it seemed (does all the Pakistani population of Rotherham agree with child abuse to such an extent that an investigation would cause them all to not vote for labour, it seems unlikely {although I am aware it is probably likely in Ringo's head}).

I thought I'd look at some facts as I know they're not Ringo's forte. The entire Pakistani population of Rotherham is ~ 7,500 (latest census figures, bear in mind that a significant proportion of those will be unable to vote), Labour's majority was in excess of 10,000. The number's simply do not add up.

Ringo, why do you think the Labour party took such a risk in closing down investigations for something that wasn't going to win them any seats either way?

Also, I hope you've been saving up https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -rotherham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[If it be your will]

.

[RingoMcCartney]

I was curious about Ringo's definite statements that Labour had effectively bribed the Pakistani population of Rotherham to vote for them by closing down child abuse investigations. Quite apart from how far-fetched it seemed (does all the Pakistani population of Rotherham agree with child abuse to such an extent that an investigation would cause them all to not vote for labour, it seems unlikely {although I am aware it is probably likely in Ringo's head}).

I thought I'd look at some facts as I know they're not Ringo's forte. The entire Pakistani population of Rotherham is ~ 7,500 (latest census figures, bear in mind that a significant proportion of those will be unable to vote), Labour's majority was in excess of 10,000. The number's simply do not add up.

Ringo, why do you think the Labour party took such a risk in closing down investigations for something that wasn't going to win them any seats either way?

Also, I hope you've been saving up https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -rotherham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nobobodys saying "Labour bribed the Pakistani community" what Louise Caseys independent official 154 page report SAID. was collusion between social workers, the police and labour councillors lead to what happened. It was this silence that maintained the political status quo.

I've watched documentaries about it and there was a tacit understanding that it was in EVERYBODY'S interest APART FROM 1400 CHILDREN) not to rock the political boat.

This is what the shamed forner Rotherham MP even admittedd -

"Denis MacShane, the former MP for Rotherham, admitted he might have not done enough about child sexual exploitation by Asian men in his constituency because he was a "Guardian-reading liberal leftie". MacShane, who resigned as an MP in 2012 over expenses fraud for which he was later jailed for six months, told the BBC he was never directly approached by anyone with allegations of child abuse during his 18 years as an MP.

Yet he "probably" didn't do as much as he could have done and should have "burrowed into" the issue, he said. "I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat, if I may put it like that." Last week, he said Anne Cryer did what others should have had the courage to do."

Taken from the guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -ann-cryer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can huff n Puff all you like. But my original point still stands. Labour should not try and take the moral high ground over the DUP deal.

Not with Rotherham and Rochdale in its cupboard.

[aggi]

Nobobodys saying "Labour bribed the Pakistani community"

Well you are, you even used that word:

Ringo - post 61: I pointed out that Labour bought the votes of the Pakistan I community in Rotherham.

Ringo - post 82: Labour paid a bribe in Rotherham and Rochdale

I'm not disputing that there were some huge failings, and some of those were due to an unwillingness to investigate for fear of being seen as racist or being overly sensitive about targeting a minority and how it would look.

What I am disputing is your assertion that Labour bought or bribed the Pakistani community by not investigating in return for votes/power. The report you keep alluding to doesn't say that, the figures don't bear out your theory. What is your evidence for this?

[martin_p]

He doesn't need evidence aggi, just a firm, unshakeable belief that he's right because he says he's right. This despite numerous people on this thread providing evidence that he's wrong. But then the world view of people like Ringo has never been evidence based.

[RingoMcCartney]

Well you are, you even used that word:

Ringo - post 61: I pointed out that Labour bought the votes of the Pakistan I community in Rotherham.

Ringo - post 82: Labour paid a bribe in Rotherham and Rochdale

I'm not disputing that there were some huge failings, and some of those were due to an unwillingness to investigate for fear of being seen as racist or being overly sensitive about targeting a minority and how it would look.

What I am disputing is your assertion that Labour bought or bribed the Pakistani community by not investigating in return for votes/power. The report you keep alluding to doesn't say that, the figures don't bear out your theory. What is your evidence for this?

Look if you're gonna crawl , ant like, over every single word I say that's up to you.

Crawl all over what the former MP said mate. It's pretty much an admission that he could have and should have done more. But due to "political sensitivities" and "community cohesion" he didn't. That's not me saying it. That's HIM admitting it.

To be honest the DUP deal is done now, so even politics is now moving on . That's what I'm doing.

[If it be your will]

.

[Greenmile]

Look if you're gonna crawl , ant like, over every single word I say that's up to you.

"Look, if you're going to use the things I've said previously on this thread to prove I'm a liar, that's up to you"

Some Trump-esque "debating" skills, there, Ringo.

If there was no bribery by the Labour Party, then your contributions to this thread are totally pointless.

[whereeaglesfly]

Sooner or later Theresa is toast, DUP deal or not. What a waste of a very large bribe.

[Imploding Turtle]

Also in 2008, labour made a substantial payment to the DUP in order to secure their votes for 42 days detention, hypocrisy of the highest order.

Sounds like bullshit. Source?