Eating meat and its environmental impact

BFCmaj · Post by **BFCmaj** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:54 am

I can’t remember the last time I ate meat although I don’t consider myself a vegetarian. My wife’s family are a mixture of Hindu and Sikh and culturally they don’t eat meat so we don’t eat it at home. We have four young children who have never eaten meat or anything with animal products in (such as gelatine) and they don’t wish to even though they could do if they wanted. When visiting India, most people we know have never eaten meat and some if them don’t touch eggs as well, but the food is amazing and I suspect that most areas in India there are religious and cultural reasons for not eating meat but people don’t need it for a healthy, balanced diet. I don’t miss meat and don’t really eat quorn or meat substitutes and given the option when eating out I rarely go for a meat option.

Lowbankclaret · Post by **Lowbankclaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:59 am

chadders wrote:I eat meat in moderation but make sure as far as I can that it's local, slow grown (cattle 30-36months) and 100% grass fed. Its a taste sensation. Bovines etc aren't 'designed' to process grains but are fed these to finish early.

100% grass fed meat is actually very good for you containing healthy fats. Good grassland and soil management can sequester carbon from the atmosphere. Unfortunately our soil management is very poor across the globe. This is an incredibly serious issue. However, there is a growing movement in farming to replicate the natural movement of herbivores on grasslands. I.e. in the great plains of Africa and America. These methods are improving soils and biodiversity.

For dairy there are a number of farmers operating 'calf at foot' where the calf stays with its mother for longer.

Just putting it out there. Some really good stuff going on in farming. Supermarkets are slow to catch on and the prices are generally that bit higher for ethical products so best to source direct from farms. Many have online sales.
we have Pipers Farm in Devon for example.

Great thread! Food for thought. UTC

chadders, not wanting to be killjoy but the majority of cattle are brought in for the winter. Now lots are fed on sillage or other grass preserves. The only cattle that can over winter outside are highlands and the meat from highlands is even better than most meats but very hard to source.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:02 pm

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:15 pm

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm

Yep B12 is the only one missing if you're full Vegan.

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:09 pm

If it be your will wrote:Go on then, which ones? Even if you are full vegan as opposed to vegetarian, there's only B12 I can think of, and there's pills for that in Tesco. I agree you have to concentrate a bit harder if you're a vegan (to get all 9 'essential' amino acids for instance), but restricting meat to say once a week is very unlikely to lead to any deficiencies at all.

If you’re eating meat once a week, you’re not vegan...

But yes you’re right B12 is what you would miss completely. However as you’ve pointed out, you need to concentrate more on making sure you get omega 3, calcium, Vit D, iron, and zinc. Yes, you can get pills for these but that’s never as good as consuming them in actual food and personally I don’t know why anyone would want to replace part of a balanced, healthy, diet with pills.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:06 pm

Calcium from any cruciform vegetable
Vit D - mushrooms, soy milk or sunlight
Iron - spinach, beans, pumpkin seeds
zinc - spinach, grains, beans

No pills needed and will also lower cholesterol and blood pressure

UTC

chadders · Post by **chadders** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:35 pm

Sorry Lowbank I may have misunderstood your Killjoy comment? Lots of housed cattle are fed on 100% grass (silage/hay). Although we do have long horns, rubies, south devons, herefords and belties out wintered here on the moor along with the highlands. Our native breeds though. i mentioned earlier the pasture for life organisation - def worth checking them out. Lots of health benefits from 100% grass fed. cheers!

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:56 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:Calcium from any cruciform vegetable
Vit D - mushrooms, soy milk or sunlight
Iron - spinach, beans, pumpkin seeds
zinc - spinach, grains, beans

No pills needed and will also lower cholesterol and blood pressure

UTC

There’s no link between dietary cholesterol and any ill health according to most recent studies on the matter. So why would you want to reduce it?

Big pharma have done a great job of lowering what is seen as “normal” levels of cholesterol in order to make a killing off statins.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:07 pm

eat slightly less meat.

it will make an impact and you don't have to have a tantrum about it.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:12 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:Calcium from any cruciform vegetable
Vit D - mushrooms, soy milk or sunlight
Iron - spinach, beans, pumpkin seeds
zinc - spinach, grains, beans

No pills needed and will also lower cholesterol and blood pressure

UTC

The majority of iron in spinach isn't absorbed by the small intestine and it's actually not usable by the body. Something not many are aware of.

Also supplements (pills) ARE needed in many cases.

Six fingers · Post by **Six fingers** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:47 pm

Tesco turkey no thanks
Not as much as a used to due to the antibiotics
They put in cows

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:05 pm

Not due to this thread but something had planned to do in january anyway doing just a month eating mainly veg and occasional seafood.

Will then revert back to meat but only of good quality and far less often.

Supermarket stuff is not only not that great for you but tastes completely crap compared to 'proper' stuff. But thats not restructed to meat. Veg is the same. A supermarket tomatoe has lost so much taste and nutrients its unreal. Proper organic veg is like a completely different thing altogether. Without being a food snob if you pay a little extra you get so much better. Understand though that cost and convenience play a big factor especially for families.

Things like taste the difference supermarket brands shouldnt even exist. Because there shouldnt be any difference. A mushroom should taste like a bloody mushroom. But veg in this country is subject to the same crap standards as meat.

Back on meat. I remember i tried a similar health kick. Didnt change much other than where i got my meat from and how much of it i ate. I got in much better shape and felt 100 times better without changing anything else.

2 months in my mate went to mcdonalds and got me a cheese burger. I thought **** it. Cant waste it. Literally after 30 minutes my stomach was in bits. Its like id become immune to it.

I also find that cost wise there isnt actually THAT much difference if you buy from proper places. Its just tht its less convenient and it goes out of date quicker. But then it should do.

Aim for this year is to buy local and shop smaller but more often.

Day 2 today. Will report back on how I feel at day 32

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:09 pm

On the news today - as a result of brexit we may be 'forced' to eat meat washed in antibiotics in america. We can't be forced to do anything. Scaremongering at its finest. Just don't eat it - buy local.

On day 4 of 'no meat for a month' and thus far its a breeze. Hasn't even crossed my mind until this news came on.

Will revert back to meat in feb but far less of it - two meals a week.

Love veg dishes anyway, but already find that by cutting meat out dishes have so much more variety. Curries etc don't even need meat, doesnt even add anything to most of them in the main! (some exceptions of course).

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:05 am

Anyone else still at this? 20 days simce i last ate meat and genuinely feel miles better for it and havent struggled in the slightest. Being able to eat seafood probably helps in that respect mind. Been getting fish from a and o by asda and its top notch.

Probably been getting at least 10 of my 5 a day. And some of the dishes have been brilliant especially the homemade ones (apart from my slow cooked curry that had too many tomatoes in yesterday).

Have spent less on food and have been fuller and more satisfied.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:17 am

I go veggie every time im on a plane... mainly cos reheated beef or chicken is rank.

I don't know why I don't do it more at home though, I do like the old hummus, sundried tomato pasta etc.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:18 am

starting_11 wrote:I go veggie every time im on a plane... mainly cos reheated beef or chicken is rank.

I don't know why I don't do it more at home though, I do like the old hummus, sundried tomato pasta etc.

I think my guilty pleasure is **** plane food

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:38 am

I don't mind it. It gives you something to do for 40 mins or whatever.

The best thing I ever had which reheates VERY nicely was a beef pie on Air NZ.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:45 am

New Zealand does ace pies.

Had a cracking one at a cafe between Christchurch and Greymouth years ago

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:46 am

Its scientifically proven that all food tastes crap in a plane. Regardless of what it is. Cant remember why. Something to do with altitude or pressure. Anyway...

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:49 am

Yeah... they add loads of salt apparently so you can "taste" it, something as you say to do with the altitude.

That's probably half true, the main problem is the stuff they serve you. You wouldn't reheat mash or scrambled eggs at home etc

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:05 pm

If these people who want to eat less meat do so, does that mean i can increase my intake a little bit and the environment is still slightly better?

Score!

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:11 pm

I don't think I could give up meat - I enjoy it too much. However, I do feel a hypocrite for eating it when I don't like animals suffering. I guess I look at the meat on my plate as food rather than as an animal that lived, breathed and had its own emotions. I try to separate the two and that works for me! I may actually try going without meat for even just a week and see how I get on. You can't beat a juicy steak though, you just can't.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Animals are raised for food, don't forget it.

Also don't forget that something gave it's life to be on your plate so respect it.

The Chinese way of thinking about food is probably a good one, they don't eat a lot of meat because historically they couldn't produce enough. If you have Chow Mein or what not, you only need about a quarter/half of a chicken breast, a few slices of pork or a handful of prawns. It's one of the easiest and simplest things to cook, is exceptionally tasty and diverse with what you can put in it. It'd be a good thing to have a few times if you are looking to cut back instead of going without.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 pm

starting_11 wrote:Animals are raised for food, don't forget it.

Also don't forget that something gave it's life to be on your plate so respect it.

The Chinese way of thinking about food is probably a good one, they don't eat a lot of meat because historically they couldn't produce enough. If you have Chow Mein or what not, you only need about a quarter/half of a chicken breast, a few slices of pork or a handful of prawns. It's one of the easiest and simplest things to cook, is exceptionally tasty and diverse with what you can put in it. It'd be a good thing to have a few times if you are looking to cut back instead of going without.

Once i revert back to eating meat it will be less of it less often.

Ive never been big on steaks anyway. Bacon butties are my issue

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:54 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Its scientifically proven that all food tastes crap in a plane. Regardless of what it is. Cant remember why. Something to do with altitude or pressure. Anyway...

I always go with the vegetarian option. It's not always great but at least it's edible

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:23 pm

I well enjoy plane food (the everything on a tray stuff, not just a £5 toastie on Ryanair), it's probably because all the courses are on one tray and everything's sized and portioned to fit. I think it's the efficiency that's satisfying.

If it be your will · Post by **If it be your will** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:22 pm

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:29 pm

starting_11 wrote:Animals are raised for food, don't forget it.

Also don't forget that something gave it's life to be on your plate so respect it.

The Chinese way of thinking about food is probably a good one, they don't eat a lot of meat because historically they couldn't produce enough. If you have Chow Mein or what not, you only need about a quarter/half of a chicken breast, a few slices of pork or a handful of prawns. It's one of the easiest and simplest things to cook, is exceptionally tasty and diverse with what you can put in it. It'd be a good thing to have a few times if you are looking to cut back instead of going without.

I'm sure there's a saying that the Chinese will eat anything with four legs except a table!

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:56 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm laughing, you sound exactly where I was about 3y ago. It'll be interesting to see if you follow the same trajectory: every time you see a story like rotten turkeys, horses in pies or a chicken factory 'use-by' altering scandal, you turn away a little more. At the same time you get used to eating less and less meat. Then you read an article about how you're wrecking the planet by eating meat, and on another day you see a bunch of lambs crammed on a windy truck on the M6, wondering if you'll end up eating the poor saps. The process is so slow you hardly notice it, but over the years you notice you hardly ever eat meat anymore. It's just too emotionally draining! Resistance is futile...

I see loads of lambs around here but never any in the supermarket. I wonder what they do with em!

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:06 am

tim_noone wrote:I'm sure there's a saying that the Chinese will eat anything with four legs except a table!

very true.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:42 pm

If it be your will wrote:I'm laughing, you sound exactly where I was about 3y ago. It'll be interesting to see if you follow the same trajectory: every time you see a story like rotten turkeys, horses in pies or a chicken factory 'use-by' altering scandal, you turn away a little more. At the same time you get used to eating less and less meat. Then you read an article about how you're wrecking the planet by eating meat, and on another day you see a bunch of lambs crammed on a windy truck on the M6, wondering if you'll end up eating the poor saps. The process is so slow you hardly notice it, but over the years you notice you hardly ever eat meat anymore. It's just too emotionally draining! Resistance is futile...

We'll have to bump this thread up in 3 years or something

I'm open to eating less meat. Just not convinced I'd be happy without it in my diet. I'll perhaps start cooking some meat-free dishes/a few vegan meals and see how I get on and if I enjoy them.

starting_11 · Post by **starting_11** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:44 pm

IndigoLake wrote:We'll have to bump this thread up in 3 years or something I'm open to eating less meat. Just not convinced I'd be happy without it in my diet. I'll perhaps start cooking some meat-free dishes/a few vegan meals and see how I get on and if I enjoy them.

Remember to be adventurous!

Unlike most "vegetarians" I know, I do not class vegetarianism as merely eating veggie sausages, pizza and pasta.

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:50 pm

starting_11 wrote:Remember to be adventurous!

Unlike most "vegetarians" I know, I do not class vegetarianism as merely eating veggie sausages, pizza and pasta.

Absolutely! I'm starting to getting into cooking a little more so will be trying out as many weird and wonderful things as possible (as long as my taste buds permit).

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:08 am

IndigoLake wrote:Absolutely! I'm starting to getting into cooking a little more so will be trying out as many weird and wonderful things as possible (as long as my taste buds permit).

If i lives in barcelona no eay could i give up the cured meat

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:30 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:If i lives in barcelona no eay could i give up the cured meat

Yep, easier said than done!

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:38 am

halfmanhalfbiscuit wrote:Has anybody stated eating less meat or become vegetarian or even vegan because of the impact it is having on the environment?

It's very simple, if we all gave up eating meat, the cost of buying wool and leather would have to quadruple. If we gave up using leather as well, then farmers simply won't have use for cattle. Are you wanting a world without cows?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:30 pm

Exactly 4 weeks in and not had any issues, withdrawal 'symptoms' or cravings.

Some things have been a minor issue as limited menu at some places. But so far:

* have had significantly more energy
* have felt more compelled to excercise
* have actually followed up and done more excercise this month than im a long time
* havent felt lethargic after one single meal this month - even when eating huge portions
* have felt generally better
* while I would always eat anything, have discovered even more varied dishes than ever before
* because I have to fill up my plate with more veg, ive probably jumped from an average of 3 portions a day to at least 10 if not 15 on some days

Going to slowly reintroduce good quality meat next week. But a couple of meals a week max. Curries will stick to veg or seafood almost always.

Didnt eliminate chocolate. And had the occasional craving for crisps which i dont usually. And I am sure the seafood and eggs helped keep cravings down. But in the main have immensely improved what wasnt a bad diet anyway.

Hopefully manage to maintain the focus on what has been an easy (and suppose ethical too) change.

Anyone else stuck at it?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:41 pm

No. I like meat, I don't like exercise.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:20 am

A good balanced diet with a bit of everything in moderation without any extremes should be the answer. Children should not be forced to go vegetarian or vegan until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

timel0veandtendayi · Post by **timel0veandtendayi** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:38 am

Blackrod wrote:A good balanced diet with a bit of everything in moderation without any extremes should be the answer. Children should not be forced to go vegetarian or vegan until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

Animals shouldn't be murdered until they're old enough to decide for themselves but there we go