Pep Guardiola

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:07 pm

City fan wrote:No. I shouldn't have used the term park the bus. I thought you tried to counter-attack when you could but I would say that Burnley are 9/10 for defending. You are one of the best organised and hard working teams in the Premier League, but only 6/10 for attacking play.

Dyche in order to be considered a top class manager has to go one step further but he has done a great job to date.

There are lots of coaches who are great at organising a defence, but who can only do so by getting men behind the ball. I am sure you can think of the names. There are also coaches who can attack, and whose teams consistently can not defend.

City fans are very lucky. Probably the new fans don't realise this. That is the only down-side to doing well. fans start to expect it, and worst still think they have a right to it.

Not sure there’s anything wrong with this assessment TBH, when combined with the later comment regarding where our market is for forwards. SD does what he says he does, and that’s sets up our team to compete based on its ability to do so.

As for the later comment questioning how each manager would perform if they swapped sides, I genuinely don’t know the answer to this

Sproggy · Post by **Sproggy** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:08 pm

There's no two ways about it. Nobody, but nobody can take the biggest and best squad in a domestic league, spend half a billion quid on it and turn them into winners quite like Pep can.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:28 pm

Darthlaw wrote:So Mourinho wins 2 trophies and it’s big whoop, who did he beat?Guardiola has the best player in the world at his disposal and is some kind of God. For smashing Tenerife and Eibar all over the show.

For information, have you ever looked at who Liverpool beat to win their European cups? Was their team crap because of the teams they beat?

Again, refer to my ‘clouding your judgement’ comment.

Would Pep have taken that Porto side and won the UEFA cup and Champions league with them? Or the Internazionale side?

Both are good, Mourinho has proven he can do it in multiple leagues, with multiple teams in multiple competitive competitions. Until Pep can say he’s done the same, the doubt will always be there.

How can Pep win the Europa cup last year ? His team would have had to have been as sh-it as Uniteds to even be in the competition.

Pep has done it in multiple leagues and in multiple competitions. When he wins the league this year that will be the league in the 3 countries he has managed in.

Mourinho is hardly succeeding these last few years - he his having more bad seasons than good and many United supporters have already had enough of him and the way United are playing. They will not win anything this year....and then he will be off again.
Whilst Mourinho is parking his bus Man City are playing football that Mourinho has never got any of his teams playing in his career.
What Mourinho achieved at Porto and Inter Milan was I agree amazing - that was nearly 8 years ago now

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:12 pm

“Mourinho is hardly succeeding these last few years”

League cup 2014/15
Premier League 2014/15
Europa League 2016/17
League cup 2016/17

Now you’re embarrassing yourself.

Has he had a go on your wife or something?

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:52 pm

Lost a lot of respect for Guardiola when he showed himself to be just as classless as Mourinho whenever things didn't go his way last season. Now, of course, he's "so happy" in every interview but he was an embarrassing baby at times last season and unbefitting of his career record.
I don't really see what the debate is on this thread as it's undeniable that:
- he's done an excellent job at City
- he's helped by having vast sums of money to pay transfer fees and wages
- he's unproven in terms of managing on a low budget

He come across as someone who really studies and understands the game and I suspect he COULD manage any team well but it's undeniably unproven.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:17 pm

[quote="Darthlaw"]“Mourinho is hardly succeeding these last few years”

League cup 2014/15
Premier League 2014/15
Europa League 2016/17
League cup 2016/17

Now you’re embarrassing yourself.

Has he had a go on your wife or something?[/quote"

So one league title in what will be how many years now ? (8?)....after touting himself as the best manager in the world is good you think ? He's going through the worst spell in his career.

He embarrassed himself at Chelsea and led them to their lowest position in 20 plus years. He then led United to their joint lowest finishing position in 20 odd years.

2 crappy league cups and a poor Europa cup with 2 of the richest clubs in the world is no compensation.

Have you actually looked at their respective records as managers in the last 6 or 7 years ? There is no comparison.

The way you are talking about him i'm assuming you are his wife and he is f-ucking you up the ars-e the same way he is the United fans.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:42 pm

Sproggy wrote:There's no two ways about it. Nobody, but nobody can take the biggest and best squad in a domestic league, spend half a billion quid on it and turn them into winners quite like Pep can.

They weren't the best squad in the league when he took over, they finished 4th in Pellegrini's final season. He hasn't spent half a billion quid either but keep making up pretend facts to suit your agenda. You also forget they're competing with other sides who are spending even bigger brass and they were behind the likes of Man United when he took over.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:51 pm

Jose has had to fully rebuild at United and it might take another couple of years for him.

Pep has spent more money yet still took over a team with
Aguero
Silva
Toure
De Bruyne
Sterling
Fernandinho
Kompany

To us it aounds daft when Jose comes out saying he needs to spend more. But he's trying to compete with City who already had 6/7/8 world class players before Pep spunked a shitload more money.

yTib · Post by **yTib** » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:09 pm

manage burnley.

that'll learn 'im.

Darthlaw · Post by **Darthlaw** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:49 am

“So one league title in what will be how many years now ? (8?)....”

2014/15 - that’s three years you silly sod.

“2 crappy league cups and a poor Europa cup with 2 of the richest clubs in the world is no compensation. “
And a PL title. So that’d Be four trophies in the last three years.

“Have you actually looked at their respective records as managers in the last 6 or 7 years ? There is no comparison.”

Yep - Pep has five trophies in the last five years, Jose has four. Pep managing Bayern Munich (who haven’t failed to win the league in nearly 6 years and were domestic, cup and European champions when he took over). Jose managing Chelsea (who hadn’t won anything domestically in four years) and Man U who had won the FA cup. Oh yeah, and we’ve pointed out Pep spent £100 million more in the last two seasons.

“The way you are talking about him i'm assuming you are his wife and he is f-ucking you up the ars-e the same way he is the United fans.”

Wow, if bringing trophies back to the United fans and taking them to second place in the league is somehow doing the United fans over I’m sure they're raging..

Now, I can’t argue anymore because you’re just being daft. Although 2014/15 being 8 years ago has made me laugh quite a lot.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:56 am

yTib wrote:manage burnley.

that'll learn 'im.

superdimitri · Post by **superdimitri** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:37 am

Anyone who has studied his interviews shows he is a admirer of the game, he knows every team in the premier league is where they are for a reason and he looks to learn from his opposition and tie it in to his own team. He offers respect to everyone. He even personally highlighted our own success. This is a guy who has managed in Spain and Germany where teams in our position are not at the same level of competitiveness.

The guy is a winner. Yes I hate him and what Man City stand for, but you can't help but admire that he studies the game so well and applies other teams success to his own system.

He studied our tactics well and he overcame them, yes you would expect him too with his resources, but the very fact he is overjoyed to even beat us says a lot.

Believe me, he knows deep down how good we are and how good Dyche is and it shows with the team he put out and when he was so glad to beat us.

People often assume these top managers forget the job their opposites have to do, but I don't think he is really one of them. The guy knows how good we are it was reflected in the way he has played against us this season.

I look forward to try and get our own back against Man City soon, who could have thought that was even a possibility?!

If any of the top teams could apply our philosophy and defend like we do they would be unbeatable and Pep knows that.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:48 am

superdimitri wrote:Anyone who has studied his interviews shows he is a admirer of the game, he knows every team in the premier league is where they are for a reason and he looks to learn from his opposition and tie it in to his own team. He offers respect to everyone. He even personally highlighted our own success. This is a guy who has managed in Spain and Germany where teams in our position are not at the same level of competitiveness.

The guy is a winner. Yes I hate him and what Man City stand for, but you can't help but admire that he studies the game so well and applies other teams success to his own system.

He studied our tactics well and he overcame them, yes you would expect him too with his resources, but the very fact he is overjoyed to even beat us says a lot.

Believe me, he knows deep down how good we are and how good Dyche is and it shows with the team he put out and when he was so glad to beat us.

People often assume these top managers forget the job their opposites have to do, but I don't think he is really one of them. The guy knows how good we are it was reflected in the way he has played against us this season.

I look forward to try and get our own back against Man City soon, who could have thought that was even a possibility?!

If any of the top teams could apply our philosophy and defend like we do they would be unbeatable and Pep knows that.

That half time celebration was still bloody bizarre

On par with Mick?

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:35 am

Wow, you really can spot the closet reds a mile off.

But I'm sure it's just a soft spot as they were the only team worth watching on TV in the 90's when we were shite.
Or that there team was mainly made up of young British players.
Or everyone had a 2nd team in the Prem when it looked like we were looking forwards to decades of mediocracy.

#lovefootballhateunited

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:10 am

superdimitri wrote: He offers respect to everyone.

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -gentleman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:22 am

If Mourinho has managed to win the league by December and had his team playing some of the best football the league has ever seen then he would be happy, gracious and accommodating just as Guardiola is now.
As it is he’s miles behind again which is why we are treated to the paranoid, surly bell endery which has become his trademark over the years.

We saw some very bizarre behaviour from Guardiola last season when things were not going as well.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:45 am

We are very lucky to have the two best coaches in the world in the prem.

This year Pep is miles ahead of Jose, but who knows next year when they have both spent another £200 million?

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:01 am

I personally can't stand any of the top 4 managers. Of the 4, it's only Klopp that is probably unfair as it's more the leeway he gets from the press that annoys me than his own personality, unlike Conte, Pep and Mourinho.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:13 am

its fairly pointless trying to compare all these coaches as the money at the top of the game has distorted things so much.

mourinho is one of the best managers around but its almost pointless him being at united now as nobody is going to come close to city for a long time.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:35 am

Darthlaw wrote:“So one league title in what will be how many years now ? (8?)....”

2014/15 - that’s three years you silly sod.

“2 crappy league cups and a poor Europa cup with 2 of the richest clubs in the world is no compensation. “
And a PL title. So that’d Be four trophies in the last three years.

“Have you actually looked at their respective records as managers in the last 6 or 7 years ? There is no comparison.”

Yep - Pep has five trophies in the last five years, Jose has four. Pep managing Bayern Munich (who haven’t failed to win the league in nearly 6 years and were domestic, cup and European champions when he took over). Jose managing Chelsea (who hadn’t won anything domestically in four years) and Man U who had won the FA cup. Oh yeah, and we’ve pointed out Pep spent £100 million more in the last two seasons.

“The way you are talking about him i'm assuming you are his wife and he is f-ucking you up the ars-e the same way he is the United fans.”

Wow, if bringing trophies back to the United fans and taking them to second place in the league is somehow doing the United fans over I’m sure they're raging..

Now, I can’t argue anymore because you’re just being daft. Although 2014/15 being 8 years ago has made me laugh quite a lot.

He's won one league title in the last 8 years. You are the one who quoted statistics from 2014/15 - where did I say that was 8 years ago ?

We'll see how pleased United fans are with the Rumbelows League Cup and finishing 25 points behind City. I know plenty who aren't impressed.

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:43 am

https://youtu.be/f1ytrcSG5Sk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pep got my respect now, top man..

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:50 am

If you have enough money you can buy anything, Blackburn did it, Chelski did it and City have done it and doing it...........you still have to manage the players but when you have the best money can buy its a whole lot easier. Pep did well at Barca with the best midfield partnership in the world and possibly the best striker in the world, he did well at Bayern as he had the best players in that league and he is doing the same at City. The argument is flawed as we will never see Pep at a club like Burnley as he doesn't need to manage a club like Burnley. Could he do it (as well as Dyche has), I for one doubt it very much but we will never know.......

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:12 pm

Dyched wrote:Jose has had to fully rebuild at United and it might take another couple of years for him.

Pep has spent more money yet still took over a team with
Aguero
Silva
Toure
De Bruyne
Sterling
Fernandinho
Kompany

To us it aounds daft when Jose comes out saying he needs to spend more. But he's trying to compete with City who already had 6/7/8 world class players before Pep spunked a shitload more money.

Pep took over a team that finished 4th, he had to ship out the oldies from Mancini's reign (Zabaleta, Kolarov, Hart) and replace them adequately. How many of them players you named were playing this way before Pep arrived? He's turned Sterling, De Bruyne and Silva into world class players (and many more). It's so stupid to say ''well he already had Sterling'' when Pep is responsible for turning Sterling into what he is now.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:15 pm

KRBFC wrote:Pep took over a team that finished 4th, he had to ship out the oldies from Mancini's reign (Zabaleta, Kolarov, Hart) and replace them adequately. How many of them players you named were playing this way before Pep arrived? He's turned Sterling, De Bruyne and Silva into world class players (and many more). It's so stupid to say ''well he already had Sterling'' when Pep is responsible for turning Sterling into what he is now.

He spent £150m in the summer on full backs. It's no surprise he got that right.

De Bruyne and Silva were already two of the best players in the Premier League.

He's a top manager, but lets not get of gooey-eyed over his expected future achievements.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:16 pm

superdimitri wrote:Anyone who has studied his interviews shows he is a admirer of the game, he knows every team in the premier league is where they are for a reason and he looks to learn from his opposition and tie it in to his own team. He offers respect to everyone. He even personally highlighted our own success. This is a guy who has managed in Spain and Germany where teams in our position are not at the same level of competitiveness.

The guy is a winner. Yes I hate him and what Man City stand for, but you can't help but admire that he studies the game so well and applies other teams success to his own system.

He studied our tactics well and he overcame them, yes you would expect him too with his resources, but the very fact he is overjoyed to even beat us says a lot.

Believe me, he knows deep down how good we are and how good Dyche is and it shows with the team he put out and when he was so glad to beat us.

People often assume these top managers forget the job their opposites have to do, but I don't think he is really one of them. The guy knows how good we are it was reflected in the way he has played against us this season.

I look forward to try and get our own back against Man City soon, who could have thought that was even a possibility?!

If any of the top teams could apply our philosophy and defend like we do they would be unbeatable and Pep knows that.

But you can't defend like us without putting men behind the ball and limiting your attacking play. It's a balance, we have improved on last year when the balance was wrong. Look at Man United, probably the best defensive team in the league, when they defend (park the bus) they rarely score.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:21 pm

Foshiznik wrote:He spent £150m in the summer on full backs. It's no surprise he got that right.

De Bruyne and Silva were already two of the best players in the Premier League.

He's a top manager, but lets not get of gooey-eyed over his expected future achievements.

But he needed to replace the fullbacks that he got rid of, or should he have signed a Championship fullback on a free transfer just to prove a point? Also i'm not sure it was that much and even if it was, so what, how many of them are playing consistently? Mendy has been injured long term so is contributing nothing and Danilo is back up. Delph is playing at left back and he certainly didn't spend £150M on him.

Look at the players that have improved since he joined....
Basically the entire squad has improved individually since Pep joined, to me, that shows great coaching.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:22 pm

Pep's net spend since he took over - approx £280 million.
That's because he recouped just under £100 million in player sales.

Jose - £136 million net spend, inc player sales of £60 million.

Jose does have a point when he says he hasn't spent as much as City, but he needs to be smarter with his spending.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:25 pm

KRBFC wrote:Pep took over a team that finished 4th, he had to ship out the oldies from Mancini's reign (Zabaleta, Kolarov, Hart) and replace them adequately. How many of them players you named were playing this way before Pep arrived? He's turned Sterling, De Bruyne and Silva into world class players (and many more). It's so stupid to say ''well he already had Sterling'' when Pep is responsible for turning Sterling into what he is now.

Sterling was very very good at Liverpool. That's why City payed so much in the first place.

Silva was already world class. He's been arguably the most consistent top player in the PL for the last 5 years. Apart from Aguero.

Yes city had some old players who needed replacing. But its far easier to do so when you don't have to buy a World Class attacking players.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:29 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Pep's net spend since he took over - approx £280 million.
That's because he recouped just under £100 million in player sales.

Jose - £136 million net spend, inc player sales of £60 million.

Jose does have a point when he says he hasn't spent as much as City, but he needs to be smarter with his spending.

But all the big clubs have insane budgets, football at the top is dictated by money. When you are competing at the top, you need money. PSG spent £340M on 2 players, Barca just spent £140M on 1 player. Now City's spending doesn't look bad, especially when they were definitely behind these clubs. When Pep arrived they were so poor, they desperately needed investment and freshness to that old squad. Why do managers get credit for working with a smaller budget but not working with a bigger budget? Surely to Manchester City, previous success at working with a decent budget is more important.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:29 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Pep's net spend since he took over - approx £280 million.
That's because he recouped just under £100 million in player sales.

Jose - £136 million net spend, inc player sales of £60 million.

Jose does have a point when he says he hasn't spent as much as City, but he needs to be smarter with his spending.

How much has Pep saved by not having to buy De Bruyne, sterling, Aguero, David Silva?
Even if he hadn't spent a penny Utd would still be behind them in terms of quality.

People forget about the squads they took over. It's like saying if we spend £200m in the summer and City spend £0. Should we be finishing above them?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:32 pm

Dyched wrote:Sterling was very very good at Liverpool. That's why City payed so much in the first place.

Silva was already world class. He's been arguably the most consistent top player in the PL for the last 5 years. Apart from Aguero.

Yes city had some old players who needed replacing. But its far easier to do so when you don't have to buy a World Class attacking players.

Sterling had 9 goals in all competitions in his final year at Liverpool, hardly world superstar level. He has more than double that already this season, Raheem Sterling is on course to hit 40 goals in all comps this year. He was doing this before? really? I'm not sure what game you're watching tbh.

David Silva and De Bruyne definitely weren't playing like this before he arrived either, next level. Aguero, I'll give you, always been world class IMO.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:33 pm

KRBFC wrote:But all the big clubs have insane budgets, football at the top is dictated by money. When you are competing at the top, you need money. PSG spent £340M on 2 players, Barca just spent £140M on 1 player. Now City's spending doesn't look bad, especially when they were definitely behind these clubs. When Pep arrived they were so poor, they desperately needed investment and freshness to that old squad. Why do managers get credit for working with a smaller budget but not working with a bigger budget? Surely to Manchester City, previous success at working with a decent budget is more important.

Calm your nips.

I pointed out Jose needs to be smarter with his spending.
Utd were, and still are, in dire need of an overhaul but spent to long dicking about with Moyes & LVG, to the point 7 of their starting 11 in a recent match were Fergie signings.

They've wasted a lot of money whereas Pep hasn't wasted as much.
City weren't so poor either you big drama queen, they just needed overhauling but it wasn't the end of the world for them.

I'm not arsed about who has what budget right now, I'm talking about Jose failing to do his job at UTD and buy the right players.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:34 pm

Dyched wrote:How much has Pep saved by not having to buy De Bruyne, sterling, Aguero, David Silva?
Even if he hadn't spent a penny Utd would still be behind them in terms of quality.

People forget about the squads they took over. It's like saying if we spend £200m in the summer and City spend £0. Should we be finishing above them?

Jose already had a decent squad at UTD, but he hasn't been out buying the right players at a guess.
Pep already had a decent squad at City and has gone out and spent wisely.

CrosspoolClarets · Post by **CrosspoolClarets** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:39 pm

His teams are wonderful to watch in full flow.

City at their peak remind me of Barca at theirs under him.

OK, he struggles to beat us tactically, he admits as much. We are a weird side to play against. But he still manages it.

I was fuming at the equaliser on Saturday but even at the time I admitted it was world class. The way Aguero conned Mee, hands on knees, looking disinterested, then, bang. Even if most refs would have pulled it back while they were yapping to our player. After that, they were breathtaking. Not so much pass and move, the moving never stops.

Got to admire too the way he put out a serious side, and made it stronger as the game went on, albeit the match was probably City’s most important remaining domestic fixture (if we assume they can easily afford a loss or two in the league).

We’re lucky to watch sides like that in England, and doubly lucky to watch our own team play them live.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:42 pm

There is also the argument that some players like De Bruyne were always going to develop into world class players.

Look at Harry Kane. It seems that as his game has developed with experience he's just naturally turning into a world class player because he had the ability to begin with, and it needed just a bit of fine tuning.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:45 pm

Spijed wrote:There is also the argument that some players like De Bruyne were always going to develop into world class players.

Look at Harry Kane. It seems that as his game has developed with experience he's just naturally turning into a world class player because he had the ability to begin with, and it needed just a bit of fine tuning.

but to say Pep isn't responsible for the obvious improvement in players individually is just discrediting him for the sake of talking crap about him. Burnley fans have a hard time giving credit to others, a bitterness to our fans.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:46 pm

KRBFC wrote:Sterling had 9 goals in all competitions in his final year at Liverpool, hardly world superstar level. He has more than double that already this season, Raheem Sterling is on course to hit 40 goals in all comps this year. He was doing this before? really? I'm not sure what game you're watching tbh.

David Silva and De Bruyne definitely weren't playing like this before he arrived either, next level. Aguero, I'll give you, always been world class IMO.

Hey I never said Sterling was this good. But he was incedible at Liverpool when they finished 2nd. People need to stop making out he was a pub player and pep has suddenly turned him great. David Silva has always been World Class in all of Citys title wins.

Pep is good at what he does. But when the basis of a very good squad is there and you can spend £100m's on full backs it's easier.

Like I said it'll take Utd 4/6 transfer windows to even get on par with Citys all round quality.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:47 pm

https://www.premierleague.com/players/4 ... co=1&se=54" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.premierleague.com/players/4 ... co=1&se=79" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All the stats if anyone really wants to get picky.

They were both good players to begin with who were going to get better.
Pep has a system that works for his players so naturally they've evolved into better players.

https://www.premierleague.com/players/4 ... co=1&se=-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Silva is fairly consistant, which we all knew, but he stands out due to City's style of play at present.

Sidney1st · Post by **Sidney1st** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:48 pm

KRBFC wrote:but to say Pep isn't responsible for the obvious improvement in players individually is just discrediting him for the sake of talking crap about him. Burnley fans have a hard time giving credit to others, a bitterness to our fans.

He is responsible to a degree, but they weren't crap players before he arrived.
He's just got a system that works.

Same with what he's done with Delph and Stones.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:08 pm

No matter what is spent, each season, there are only 4 possible trophies to share.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:14 pm

Spijed wrote:There is also the argument that some players like De Bruyne were always going to develop into world class players.

Look at Harry Kane. It seems that as his game has developed with experience he's just naturally turning into a world class player because he had the ability to begin with, and it needed just a bit of fine tuning.

It's a pity Jose didn't realise that then when he let him go at Chelsea.
Or Lukaku
Or Salah

At a guess that's failing to spot world class talent that is now worth about £250m.

Let's not also forget that United's wage bill is up there with anyone's and they remain the richest club in the world. With the players he has bought so far -Bailly ; Lindeloff, Matic, Mikytarian (total £140m) ; Pogba and Lukaku (£170m) ; Zlatans wages etc then the United Board might be a bit cautious about giving him much more. How many of those 7 players would get in the City side ? Possibly only Pogba and even then only as a holding midfielder. Only a couple of them would get in the Chelsea and Spurs team.

They are still being linked with Griezman who would cost £100m and wants £400k a week - would he make United that much better ? United now struggle to attract the "best" players in the world - the top half dozen in that £150m category - Hazard, Courinho, Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo etc. This means that until Pep gets bored with spanking United they won't get near them - however much Mourinho spends.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:Look at the players that have improved since he joined....
Basically the entire squad has improved individually since Pep joined, to me, that shows great coaching.

It’s good when managers do that isn’t it.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:34 pm

I'm not sure anyone can say he isn't good.
Yes, he has crazy money every time, but he's not the first manager to have a ridiculous amount of money. But this is 3 teams that he has got playing some of the best football in the world. And is turning good players into great ones and great players into world class.

The question is whether he could manage lesser quality players to a decent standard.
The same question could be asked could Dyche manage a team of world class players any better than managers in the past that have done 'alright'. I think he needs to sign some top quality players just to test himself haha

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:40 pm

KRBFC wrote:When Pep arrived they were so poor, they desperately needed investment and freshness to that old squad.

Bloody hell, you don't half make it sound as if Pep is some sort of second coming of Christ. They were a top team and after big spending and smart coaching, they are currently topping the league playing brilliant football.

No one is denying he is doing a top job but lets all calm down a little. It's not exactly been tough for him this season.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:54 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:It’s good when managers do that isn’t it.

Yeah, the sign of a good coach.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:55 pm

Foshiznik wrote:Bloody hell, you don't half make it sound as if Pep is some sort of second coming of Christ. They were a top team and after big spending and smart coaching, they are currently topping the league playing brilliant football.

No one is denying he is doing a top job but lets all calm down a little. It's not exactly been tough for him this season.

If 4th in the league is considered a ''top team'' then yeah, I guess they were.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:05 pm

KRBFC wrote:If 4th in the league is considered a ''top team'' then yeah, I guess they were.

You think they weren't a top team with Kompany, Silva, Fernandinho, Aguero, De Bruyne, etc. that underachieved?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:19 pm

Foshiznik wrote:You think they weren't a top team with Kompany, Silva, Fernandinho, Aguero, De Bruyne, etc. that underachieved?

I thought they were a good side in decline with ageing players in key areas, behind the likes of Spurs and Chelsea.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:25 pm

It all a bit Chelsea last season.

Pundits etc creaming themselves about Costa, Hazard, Fabregas and how Conte has made them great yet forget they won the league 2 years earlier and well just simply couldn't be arsed the year after.

As someone mentioned earlier there's only 4 trophies. 2 of them relatively nonsense to most. You have 4/5/6 teams going for realistically just the league. The champions chelsea could finish 5th where in other leagues from the outside the champions finishing 5th would look crap. So taking over a 4th placed City team and taking them top in 18 months isn't that great of an achievement.

Have City improved in the last 18 months? Yes
But despite spending £100s and £100's of millions the gap to the mighty Burnley as closed. Whahahaha

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:34 pm

KRBFC wrote:I thought they were a good side in decline with ageing players in key areas, behind the likes of Spurs and Chelsea.

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I thought they were a top side that have no doubt improved under Pep.