The signs of positive change...

[Sidney1st]

So you're the Great Orme they speak of.

Random fact, you can't buy things like Keyrings etc with the name Orme on them from the shop on top of the Great Orme.

[ablueclaret]

That's very unsatisfactory Sidney what an opportunity being missed

[ablueclaret]

From hence forth you will be the Great Orme for me just as I benighted Beamish.

[Sidney1st]

It is amusing each time I go up there.

[ablueclaret]

At least you can never be called Ormeless.

[piston broke]

You totally miss SDs strategy, abc. He bangs on about employing MEN and he is right. With 30 year olds those on the inside know their history, are they good trainers, good in the dressing room, team players. He checks this out and then gives them the nod. With kids you are buying potential but that's all. Their agent might be a total arsehole just looking to line his pocket, they might think they are too good for the bench and start disrupting the harmony.
All managers eventually lose the dressing room because they get sick of hearing the same message. Buying older players with a regular turnover cures this problem.
SD has never lied to us it is constantly a building job with fine margin improvements. We will, probably, never play like Barcelona or Arsenal. We accept that and cheer them on, you won't.

IN DYCHE WE TRUST.

[Conroy92]

ABC, At the start of this season we made a good pan to add experience and quality, we have become a lot more solid and its not a coincedence. Players who have done it at this league have the know-how to grind games out, its invaluable to a team transitioning like ours.
I do believe that this window would be a good time to add one or two good young players, we already look safe and could potentially afford to bed some of these players in for the remainder of the season, hopefully settling them into to the Burnley way for next season. It seems to take a few months to get Dyche fit and If not already at this level, some time to adapt so could be a good plan.
The only downside is that a club like ours now is going to screwed in the window, good young players are not cheap, good young players moving to a club well positioned with a bit of money tend to cost more, good young players moving to a club well positioned with a bit of money IN JANUARY tend to cost gazillions. If we were another season down the line and we were still only signing 30year olds i might agree with you but for now the transfers have been fine.

I have responded to the little bits about transfers, the rest was utter sh**.

[Long Time Lurker]

In respect to some of his comments I think, dare I say it, Ablue has a point. Although his doom and gloom opinions about the general direction of the club are wide of the mark. We are constantly moving forward, but in some respects we are still straddling the Championship / Premier League gap.

One would think we are fairly safe from relegation this season, but nothing is ever guaranteed in this league. The lads are playing extremely well and taking into account the run of injuries and the quality of the competition in our last few games we have nothing to be worried about. It isn't like we are playing against Whipsnade Wanderers in the Sunday league our last game was against Man Utd and we where only undone by a piece of quality. Can I say that again, despite some setbacks regarding the extent of our first eleven selection we MATCHED Man Utd. All things considered we have come a long way in a short time, we look set to retain out place in the league and possibly do a lot better - Europe is a possibility.

The Gaffers decision to increase our strength in depth at the beginning of the season was a wise one and we have benefitted from it. We have simply been unlucky, but that happens. I can't think of one player that has come into the squad that has let us down and discounting the early injury to Walters I think the same would have applied to him. For those questioning some of Bardsleys performances would Darikwa have served us better this season?

We need to consider player performances, results and the financial future of the club. The lads are doing us proud in relation to the first two of those and the Gaffer in combination with the board are making some astute decisions in respect to the latter. We simply aren't in a position to splash cash around like water and we need to keep spending within our means. The extended contracts of Tarks and Sean represent outstanding value for money in terms of their current performance levels and their ability to contribute to even greater success. The same is true of our recent signings and I really can't see how anyone could think differently.

We are moving forward and this is the part where I both agree and disagree with Ablue. To say that we should turn away from signing older players is ridiculous. Our primary source of income is going to be based upon our performance in the league and the accompanying TV revenue. That means we need quality players on the pitch regardless of age. Spending large amounts on younger players that might go on to improve and rise in value is a risky strategy. However, it isn't one we should shy away from entirely. I think we need to start doing a bit of both.

The way I see it two things are important for us to consider, even greater strength in depth and the prospect of the TV revenue rising yet again. I don't think it is true to say that we no longer have the luxury of bringing in players who are Championship level. On the contrary I think that players of this ability level should be on our radar. Young Championship level players of good character that might have the potential to improve. There is nothing is stop us from bringing in such players and loaning them out to Championship teams to gain match experience and prove themselves worthy of a first team slot.

Developing an extended team would give us greater strength in depth and it would also allow us to speculate financially without breaking the bank on a young player that will immediately slot into the first team. It would be nice if we had a number of players to pick from that could move up to the first team when someone departs instead of having to "buy to replace" as we sometimes have to. When Keano left us Tarks and Long moved up in the pecking order but who is following them?

The probability of the TV revenue rising in February should have, and I hope it has, propelled us to consider bring in some good young uns. If the money rises than transfer prices will rise as a natural consequence. So a player that costs us 4Mil this year could cost us 5-6Mil next year simply because of the greater funds at the top and the trickle-down effect.

So if we bring in a younger player that has identifiable potential and who fits the mould of what we are about, for 3-4Mil, we will have a certain level of financial comfort in relation to risk. We pay him 4Mil and wages of 10K for a total of 4.5Mil over the course of a year. The TV money bumps up and a player of that standard is worth 5Mil+ if he doesn't improve. We made 500K and denied the taxman a greater cut of our profits. If the player turns out to be a winner we got him cheap and if he doesn't then unless he is a complete flop we could expect to recover most of our initial outlay. We can also lower costs by loaning him out.

Taking all of that into account I would have thought that this window would have incorporated some buying for the future in respect to younger players that are currently below the level we require. At the moment our development squad players aren't really Championship level and that is something we need to start addressing. We need more players that show a reasonable chance of playing a part in the first team in the next couple of seasons and casting a glance over the development squad and where they are playing that will mean signing some new players. We can do it now or later when the cost of those players jumps again.

Speculating to accumulate is a touch risky, but it really needs to be a part of our strategic planning in terms of finance and team progression. Buying players that demonstrate the "right attitude", playing ability and fall within our budget gives us a very limited pool to pick from. The only way around it is to start adding players with the right character who possibly aren't at the level we immediately require, but show every indication that they could develop their game to meet that standard.

We need to look at this window as an opportunity to buy for the future as much as it is an opportunity to buy for today.

[lovebeingaclaret]

Watch out. Abc is plummeting into the losing it mode.
Last time I believe he got banned big time. Keep posted in here. I missed out last time.

[ClaretMoffitt]

It's always been fun being a Burnley supporter and although this might be the best we have achieved in terms of league position it is certainly not the most entertaining.

To clarify, are you actually disappointed with this news?

[1968claret]

Being only four months from my 50th birthday and having started going on the Turf in 1975, I can confirm this to be 100% correct.

Me too Martin.
I’m 50 in June, I went on my first match the year after we were relegated from the 1st Division.
What we are achieving now is dreamland! As I have written in other threads, how anyone can find negatives in our current position is beyond me.
If you can’t enjoy what we are doing now then you will never be satisfied and you might as well just pack in and support one of the top 4.
I for one am just going to enjoy every minute of this season, win, lose or draw. UTC

[bartons baggage]

At least you can never be called Ormeless.

Brilliant work as ever,a Pavlovian master class.

[Hipper]

So if we bring in a younger player that has identifiable potential and who fits the mould of what we are about, for 3-4Mil, we will have a certain level of financial comfort in relation to risk. We pay him 4Mil and wages of 10K for a total of 4.5Mil over the course of a year.

Nice long post and I agree with most of it.

By young player you mean someone like Agyei who we got from MKDons. There are a few 'Agyeis in the development squad but how many are likely to get to the first team whilst we are in The Premier League?

If you mean today's Tarkowski you are surely looking at more then £4 million - Worrall apparently was priced out at £15 million.

[levraiclaret]

It seems to me that the age old recipe for the survival of Burnley FC of finding/buying promising young players and developing them, then selling them on to richer clubs is no longer the optimal one. Now we can survive/thrive by retaining our PL status as long as the formula for sharing out the TV monies is not changed.

If having a majority of experienced PL players of good character with the emphasis on teamwork in SD's judgement provides the best chance of retaining our PL status that's fine by me. However I don't think we are anywhere near there yet, the majority of the team are under 30 so as usual abc is on the wrong track.

[mkmel]

Nice long post and I agree with most of it.

By young player you mean someone like Agyei who we got from MKDons. There are a few 'Agyeis in the development squad but how many are likely to get to the first team whilst we are in The Premier League?

If you mean today's Tarkowski you are surely looking at more then £4 million - Worrall apparently was priced out at £15 million.

We certainly did not get Dan Agyei from that lot down the road from me but from Wimbledon

[Long Time Lurker]

By young player you mean someone like Agyei.

Yes, players around the current standard of Agyei who we could picked up for 1-5Mil. Reasonably young, demonstrated talent and the potential to improve further. Tarks was already a very good player when we picked him up and reasonably established despite his young age.

UK Leagues

Jack Hendry - 22 - Centre Back - Contracted until 2019 - Dundee
Matty Cash - 21 - Central Midfield - Contracted until 2021 - Nottingham Forest
Leonardo da Silva - 19 - Central Midfield - Contracted until 2021 - Peterborough
Ronaldo Vieira - 19 - Central Midfield - Contracted until 2021 - Leeds
Glen Middleton - 18 - Left Wing - Contracted until 2019 - Norwich
Bradley Fewster - 21 Centre Forward - No Contract - Spennymoor Town

Callum Styles - 18 - Attacking Midfield - Contracted until 2019- Bury

Possibility

21 - Gustav Engvall - Centre Forward - Contracted until 2019 - Bristol City

Bristol City appear to be looking to get rid of him and he showed some a bit of promise in his recent loan spell at Djurgarden. Something of a punt, but if we could pick him up with a cheeky bid of less than 1mil he could do ok given more game time.

Further Afield

21 - Dries Wouters - Centre Back - Contracted until 2019 - KRC Genk

21 - Linus Wahlqvist - Right Back - Contracted until 2018 - Norrkoping
21 - Joel Andersson - Right Back - Contracted until 2020 - Hacken

20 - Phillip Ochs - Left Midfield - Contracted until 2018 - Hoffenheim

20 - Sander Svendsen - Centre Forward - Contracted until 2021 - Hammarby IF
20 - Sam Lammers - Centre Forward - Contracted until 2021 - PSV Eindhoven

More Expensive - Probably Over 5mil

19 - Felix Passlack - Right Midfield - Contracted until 2019 - Dortmund
19 - Josip Brekalo - Left Wing - Contracted until 2021 - Wolfsburg
21 - Siebe Schrijvers - Attacking Midfield - Contracted until 2019 - KRC Genk
21 - Jack Harrison - Right Wing - Unknown - New York

Way Over 5mil - but could drop due to contract length and relegation

18 - Jann-Fiete Arp - Centre Forward - Contracted until 2019 - Hamburger SV

Obviously, this is just a small sample and a lot of other comparable players are certainly out there. I just listed these players as a sample snapshot of the ability level and price we could look at, with an emphasis on contract length and what I've seen of them or learnt about their character from media releases.

With a reasonably complete squad and no overwhelming need to add first team players at this point, other than a CB for insurance purposes, we could also improve our chances of signing this type of player by offering end of season loans that will keep them with their current teams until next season.

[Sidney1st]

Brighton are on the verge of paying up to £8 million for a young defender lad from Charlton who're in league 1...

That's the going rate now for decent English defenders from league one, so £15 million for one from the championship sounds about right.

[clarethead]

ABC is more like Mavis from Coronation street.

[Colburn_Claret]

The days when Burnley could survive by selling young players is long gone.
The revenue we are receiving now in the premiership cam never be met by selling. Even if we got 10 million per player, we'd have to sell ten of them a season to make it up.
The benefit of producing our own players is the money we save not buying from elsewhere, rather than selling.

[Chester Perry]

LTL - the bidding for the next domestic tv contract is in Feb Clubs won't see any money until the 2019-20 season that is 18 months away so at the very least we would have to stay up next season as well to benefit

[DCWat]

The last thing we should do, in my eyes at least, is not look to bring in young blood that we may turn a profit on.

It’s correct of course that the big money is from the league but a few players sold on for a profit, as we’ve done so well with in recent years, is still substantial.

We should be trying to make money wherever we can to try to reduce the gap with the bigger clubs in the league and try to keep a step ahead of those aiming for where we are.

It’s still an approach we should be actively taking.

[boatshed bill]

The last thing we should do, in my eyes at least, is not look to bring in young blood that we may turn a profit on.

It’s correct of course that the big money is from the league but a few players sold on for a profit, as we’ve done so well with in recent years, is still substantial.

We should be trying to make money wherever we can to try to reduce the gap with the bigger clubs in the league and try to keep a step ahead of those aiming for where we are.

It’s still an approach we should be actively taking.

If we could develop some decent players in the near future we could reduce the cost of our bench and back up by millions, always worth trying.