Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

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Sidney1st
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Sidney1st » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:47 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:In real life a woman is dead because of unsafe testing
Well done for seeing what I've said a few times now.
The person in the car wasn't doing their job.

The woman in the road was also crossing in a place she wasn't meant to, known as jay walking in the US and fines are given out for it.

Both to blame but more can be put onto the woman in the car.

aggi
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by aggi » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:50 pm

The stat was Google did about 350,000 miles with 63 interventions.

There is a rumour (I have no idea if there is any basis to it, it may just be that it fits the scenario) that LIDAR was disabled on purpose as they were conducting testing using passive cameras only (since a passive setup would be considerably cheaper than active LIDAR/RADAR). This would explain the failure to detect in low light and, given that the LIDAR on cars is costing upwards of $10k, there have previously been talks about how to get round that cost.

UpTheBeehole
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by UpTheBeehole » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:58 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Well done for seeing what I've said a few times now.
The person in the car wasn't doing their job.

The woman in the road was also crossing in a place she wasn't meant to, known as jay walking in the US and fines are given out for it.

Both to blame but more can be put onto the woman in the car.
Do you now concede that you were basing your whole opinion on the screenshot of a crap dashcam instead of thinking with your brain that the lighting couldn't possibly be that dark to the naked eye?

Aggi's provision of a much superior dashcam image makes your whole basis for your earlier petty arguments completely groundless.

dsr
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by dsr » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:21 pm

Sidney1st wrote:In real life the woman crossed the road in the wrong place and got run over by a car that wasn't being monitored properly.
True enough. She wasn't blameless. But she crossed two lanes of a well-lit road and the car failed to see her - that is failure of technology. The point of these driverless cars isn't that they drive along oblivious and pedestrians had better not be ion the wrong place - the point is that people, including people who are in the wrong place, will be safer.
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Sidney1st
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Sidney1st » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:47 pm

UpTheBeehole wrote:Do you now concede that you were basing your whole opinion on the screenshot of a crap dashcam instead of thinking with your brain that the lighting couldn't possibly be that dark to the naked eye?

Aggi's provision of a much superior dashcam image makes your whole basis for your earlier petty arguments completely groundless.
Were they petty?

OK then..
like I've said all the way through this entire thread both parties are to blame, pay attention for once.

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Paul Waine » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:26 pm

Sidney1st wrote:Several companies are testing, some have been in the UK.
Some one else provided a stat about the number of times Google cars needed driver intervention and it was incredibly low.

In this instance it's a combination of pedestrian error coupled with useless human in the car not paying attention herself so she could intervene.

They'll get the hang of it though and in the next 10years I suspect autonomous cars will become a regular thing on the road.
Do they tell us/warn us were these driverless cars are testing?

So, if Google cars need very few driver interventions, why are we letting other manufactures test on the roads before they've reached the same standards? Or, is Google testing in safe environment and avoiding all the hazardous areas?

We can't blame the pedestrian, it could have been a child. The driverless car has to be safe children in their buggies, running into the road, skate boarding, learning to ride their bike, chasing their football and all the other stuff that people do.

And, as for the human in the car; we are all human, our attention will always stray away from what the machine is doing, almost no way to stop this, except we give the driver the wheel - but then it's not a driverless car.

Autonomous, self-driving vehicles are a great idea. But, we are a long way from achieving it on public roads. The tech kids are fooling the politicians that they have to let them free on the roads now. It's a bit like when you buy a new piece of software and discover afterwards that it's been released to market in a rush, to stop someone else getting there first and at best the software is still full of bugs and should be in beta.

Agree, 10 years is a realistic target.

Sidney1st
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Sidney1st » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:59 pm

Its like anything else Paul.

There's only so much private/off road testing that can be done.
One company converted an old US Airbase over in the USA and made a town for their car to practice in.

At some point the next stage is real world situations which they're currently doing.

If they announced it then they wouldn't be presented with real world situations.

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Rick_Muller » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:20 pm

Tests still going ahead in MK...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/5866238 ... death/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sidney1st
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by Sidney1st » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:53 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... oided.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Car spotted the woman and didn't move to avoid her.

Christine anyone?

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by UpTheBeehole » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Speaking to CNET, Cortica's CEO Igal Raichelgauz said the firm's self-driving AI system detected Ms Herzberg 0.9 seconds before impact.

At this point the car was around 50 feet (15 metres) away.

He said the autonomous car's cameras and radar system should have had enough time to pick up the pedestrian and react to the situation.
Pretty much exactly what I was saying then

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by keith1879 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:34 pm

Is it actually forbidden to cross the road here ....or is it just not a very good place? Because if it's not forbidden then surely any car driver (or driverless car) should be on the look out for a fairly slow moving pedestrian in what appears to be a brilliantly lit road. The lady who died contributed to her demise - but ultimately if I am driving a car in this country then a pedestrian ALWAYS has right of way on any road other than a motorway. That was a lesson I learned in a very painful accident and a subsequent civil action. (I was the pedestrian).

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by deanothedino » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:16 am

BennyD wrote:Cr4p. Whilst most commercial aircraft have an auto land system, it is only used under certain specific conditions as the ground environment has to be closely controlled to prevent corruption/ interruption of the cat 3 ILS signal. If these conditions aren’t active the aircraft is always manually landed by the pilots. As for pilots not doing anything, again that’s cr4p. Whilst the aircraft is almost always flown by the autopilot the pilots are always trying to get ‘directs’, or short cuts, in order to reduce fuel burn and flight time. Also, a pilot always has to be aware which is the nearest airfield, and the prevalent weather conditions there, in case of an in flight emergency. These airfields change as the flight progresses. Google AirTransat flight 236 and ask yourself if a computer would have achieved a similar outcome (from the point of engine failure). If it was an easy job, it wouldn’t cost over £100k to get a licence and pilots wouldn’t have to be examined more than brain surgeons in order to keep their jobs.
Someone's upset.

I never said "let's get rid of pilots", pilots almost always manually land - I know this and didn't say anything that suggested otherwise. I also didn't say being a pilot was easy.

I also know about the limitations of autoland systems. I work in the aircraft industry.
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by FactualFrank » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:42 am

I'm just thankful that we're all agreed on what happened.

BennyD
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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by BennyD » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:47 pm

deanothedino wrote:Someone's upset.

I never said "let's get rid of pilots", pilots almost always manually land - I know this and didn't say anything that suggested otherwise. I also didn't say being a pilot was easy.

I also know about the limitations of autoland systems. I work in the aircraft industry.
I’m not upset in the slightest, but just read your post #36 again, and in the context of what you wrote then read the above quote again. Btw, just because you work in the aircraft industry doesn’t mean you know the first thing about what pilots do. I mean, you could drive the catering truck around the pan or empty the toilets and both of these jobs are in the ‘aircraft industry’.

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by deanothedino » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:29 pm

BennyD wrote:I’m not upset in the slightest, but just read your post #36 again, and in the context of what you wrote then read the above quote again. Btw, just because you work in the aircraft industry doesn’t mean you know the first thing about what pilots do. I mean, you could drive the catering truck around the pan or empty the toilets and both of these jobs are in the ‘aircraft industry’.
It could but it doesn't.

Over half of your post was unrelated to mine but I'm glad you got it off your chest.

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by BennyD » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:00 pm

A crude bit of deflection there. I see you didn’t mention #36 so I’ll just take it that you were wrong and leave it at that. Best you stick to your part of the aircraft industry and I’ll stick to mine, but I reserve the right to comment on posts such as yours as it comes within my job spec and experience.

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Re: Driverless Uber car kills pedestrian

Post by deanothedino » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:18 pm

BennyD wrote:A crude bit of deflection there. I see you didn’t mention #36 so I’ll just take it that you were wrong and leave it at that. Best you stick to your part of the aircraft industry and I’ll stick to mine, but I reserve the right to comment on posts such as yours as it comes within my job spec and experience.
I did mention it.
Over half of your post was unrelated to mine but I'm glad you got it off your chest.
I said pilots normally land planes, but planes can land themselves. They can, the fact they don't very often isn't relevant.

Your post went far beyond contesting that onto issues of safety and pilots doing nothing, I never said pilots do nothing and I never advocated getting rid of them, though unmanned commercial flights (like unmanned cars) are likely an inevitability. I don't think that's the right way to go but I don't hold the purse strings. Over half of your post was totally irrelevant to what I had wrote. You can reserve the right to comment on posts like mine (I assume you're a pilot) but I'd request that you keep your comments to the contents of such posts and not into the realm of conjecture.

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