Southgate Mania Continues

[Spijed]

For all the talk of how well we did:

Wales achieved the same feat reaching a semi final without the hyped up fanfare!

[taio]

For all the talk of how well we did:

Wales achieved the same feat reaching a semi final without the hyped up fanfare!

There was plenty and rightly so because Wales did very well.

[TVC15]

BTW: I shan't be replying again. Cheers all and everybody entitled to their opinion.

UTC and here's hoping England do well again.

You are a funny bloke Rowls. You come out with so many things that you pass off as facts and then on a number of occasions rather than just admit you are wrong dig yourself into an embarrassingly big hole by your stubbornness to admit you are wrong.

What you have said is factually incorrect - I won't go through all the things you have got wrong but a couple are that firstly Kanes hatrick goal was not the only one from open play....I won't tell you the other one as you really need to start working this stuff out yourself before quoting things as factual. Secondly Kane`s chance was not the only the other chance they made from open play last night - again I`d rather you just watch the game yourself than just make stuff up.

At least you admit yourself you do not like Southgate - but still no excuse for making stuff up and passing them off as facts to justify a clouded stubborn view which I doubt you would change even if they would have beat France 14 nil in the final !

[Rileybobs]

For all the talk of how well we did:

Wales achieved the same feat reaching a semi final without the hyped up fanfare!

What are you on about? Wales received the same fanfare, maybe it wasn’t as hyped up as firstly I presume you don’t live in Wales and secondly Wales isn’t a particularly football-mad country.

Oh, and it wasn’t in a World Cup.

[Devils_Advocate]

What are you on about? Wales received the same fanfare, maybe it wasn’t as hyped up as firstly I presume you don’t live in Wales and secondly Wales isn’t a particularly football-mad country.

Oh, and it wasn’t in a World Cup.

Yep but apart from all that he makes a really good point!!

[Spijed]

Oh, and it wasn’t in a World Cup.

So the whole of England didn't go crazy in 1996 when we got to the semi's of the European championships then, just like this year?

[taio]

So the whole of England didn't go crazy in 1996 when we got to the semi's of the European championships then, just like this year?

Yep. Like people did in Wales for Euros 2016. What's the problem?

[Japebe43]

You are a funny bloke Rowls. You come out with so many things that you pass off as facts and then on a number of occasions rather than just admit you are wrong dig yourself into an embarrassingly big hole by your stubbornness to admit you are wrong.

What you have said is factually incorrect - I won't go through all the things you have got wrong but a couple are that firstly Kanes hatrick goal was not the only one from open play....I won't tell you the other one as you really need to start working this stuff out yourself before quoting things as factual. Secondly Kane`s chance was not the only the other chance they made from open play last night - again I`d rather you just watch the game yourself than just make stuff up.

At least you admit yourself you do not like Southgate - but still no excuse for making stuff up and passing them off as facts to justify a clouded stubborn view which I doubt you would change even if they would have beat France 14 nil in the final !

Ah so rowls is an idiot.. Sorry I responded to him now..

[TVC15]

Ah so rowls is an idiot.. Sorry I responded to him now..

Nah he’s no idiot
He’s a clever chap is Rowls.

[Rowls]

You seem to be forgetting Lingard's goal against Panama, btw.

Nope that was our shot on target from open play.

You are a funny bloke Rowls. You come out with so many things that you pass off as facts and then on a number of occasions rather than just admit you are wrong dig yourself into an embarrassingly big hole by your stubbornness to admit you are wrong.

At least you admit yourself you do not like Southgate - but still no excuse for making stuff up and passing them off as facts to justify a clouded stubborn view which I doubt you would change even if they would have beat France 14 nil in the final !

This is just bizarre. I admit nothing of the sort about Southgate - I simply rate him very lowly as a manager. You're mixing that up with an apparent personal dislike of the guy which isn't there on my part.

The stuff I've put is factually correct.

[TVC15]

Nope that was our shot on target from open play.



This is just bizarre. I admit nothing of the sort about Southgate - I simply rate him very lowly as a manager. You're mixing that up with an apparent personal dislike of the guy which isn't there on my part.

The stuff I've put is factually correct.

Just because you keep on repeatedly saying it’s a fact Rowls won’t make it one !

Lingard’s goal v Panama was from open play - so your “fact” is wrong.
The chance Kane had yesterday was not the only one from open play. Tripps played a ball right across the six yard box which was a great chance. As said just watch the game for yourself.

Never thought you personally disliked Southgate - that’s not the point. The point is you do not rate him as a manager and get hung up trying to defend yourself with so called facts just to prove your point.

You are completely entitled to not rate him - just get your facts right for a change (you do this so many times !)

[Japebe43]

Taken from elsewhere -

'We are the youngest team in this World Cup. The youngest. We got to the Semi Final.

We didn't fall over and roll around. We didn't grab, punch, head butt, stamp. We didn't try to play the referee.

We stood up. We played. We were a unit, a team, we were gentlemen.

Sure, the trophy isn't coming home, but I'd say we've shown the world just how the game should be played.

This squad will grow. This squad will win.

#FootballNeverLeft

[Tall Paul]

Nope that was our shot on target from open play.

You said "only ONE of the six goals came from open play - the goal which we only scored because of a wicked deflection."

Lingard's goal wasn't deflected, so my English comprehension led me to believe that you must've been talking about Kane's third goal and had therefore forgotten about Lingard's.

[Rileybobs]

So the whole of England didn't go crazy in 1996 when we got to the semi's of the European championships then, just like this year?

I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to get at?!

[Japebe43]

Rowls.. Hi.. Do you believe with what you perceive to be 'a better manager', given the same scenario with same players, we would have had a better chance of winning it?

[Rowls]

You said "only ONE of the six goals came from open play - the goal which we only scored because of a wicked deflection."
Lingard's goal wasn't deflected, so my English comprehension led me to believe that you must've been talking about Kane's third goal and had therefore forgotten about Lingard's.

Clearly I've got that wrong. The point stands though and it's a very simple one:

Southgate's England create virtually nothing from open play. It's a massive weakness in any team. Don't create chances; don't score goals; don't win games.

Rowls.. Hi.. Do you believe with what you perceive to be 'a better manager', given the same scenario with same players, we would have had a better chance of winning it?

Hi Japebe43

Do you think worse managers have better chances of winning stuff?

Or do you only ask daft questions?

[Japebe43]

Clearly I've got that wrong. The point stands though and it's a very simple one:

Southgate's England create virtually nothing from open play. It's a massive weakness in any team. Don't create chances; don't score goals; don't win games.



Hi Japebe43

Do you think worse managers have better chances of winning stuff?

Or do you only ask daft questions?

Why the harsh response? It was only a question..

Anyway.. Down to brass tacks.. You believe southgate cost us the world cup? Deserves a thread of its own..

[Greenmile]

I happily admit I don#t like Southgate as a manager.

At least you admit yourself you do not like Southgate

Nope This is just bizarre. I admit nothing of the sort about Southgate

It’s like arguing with Donald Trump.

(No doubt I lack comprehension skills because I’ve only read the words Rowls has written and ignored the ones he hasn’t)

[Greenmile]

Southgate's England create virtually nothing from open play. It's a massive weakness in any team. Don't create chances; don't score goals; don't win games.

Why are you still pretending set piece goals don’t count, after denying doing just that yesterday? Another Trump-esque tactic.

Did you notice that we scored 12 goals this WC? That’s the third most in the tournament so far.

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistic ... oal-scored" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TVC15]

[quote="Rowls"]Clearly I've got that wrong

Go figure !
Just like you got it wrong about the number of chances created from open play against Sweden.

But your “point still stands” eh ? It’s just now you don’t have any facts to back it up !

#isrowlsdtrump

[Spijed]

Why are you still pretending set piece goals don’t count, after denying doing just that yesterday? Another Trump-esque tactic.

Did you notice that we scored 12 goals this WC? That’s the third most in the tournament so far.

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistic ... oal-scored" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I totally agree. winning should ALWAYS come above entertainment, especially in tournament football. I think the point Rowls is making is that we simply create nothing or very little from open play as the stats show. We were at the bottom of the list in that respect but we aren't a team designed to do so.

It's a shame that we (Burnley) don't score more from corners and free kicks. Something that we could improve on.

[Rowls]

Well, plenty of shots on target today.

[DustyBawls]

Well, plenty of shots on target today.

Semi-final of the World Cup.

[Rowls]

Semi-final of the World Cup.

No, 3rd/4th play off today.

Belgium beats us comfortably I thought. 2-0 final score.

[DustyBawls]

No, 3rd/4th play off today.

Belgium beats us comfortably I thought. 2-0 final score.

We got to the semi-final of the World Cup. It means, you're getting a bit tiring spouting out negative after negative after negative. It's fine now and again, but when somebody does that 100% of the time, it's a bit repetitive.

[Rowls]

We got to the semi-final of the World Cup. It means, you're getting a bit tiring spouting out negative after negative after negative. It's fine now and again, but when somebody does that 100% of the time, it's a bit repetitive.

I've congratulated the England team on their achievement and you cannot deny them where they got.

I simply want to provide a counterpoint to what I see as the overplaying of our worth.

[warksclaret]

For all the highs ie getting to last 4, having unearthed Pickford, Trippier and McGuire, the team conducting itself well on and off the pitch and having got a good young English manager, in the last two games we played like I thought we would before they flew there.

I am glad its ended to preserve the good memories. Still a lot to do in my opinion,. We simply lack ultra quality players-and sorry Harry Kane is not world class and not a captain of his country

[Rileybobs]

We had more possession, more shots and more shots on target than Belgium today. Which kind of proves how being selective with statistics, as Rowls has done, can paint an entirely incorrect picture of how well a team played...considering Belgium comfortably deserved to beat us.

[Rowls]

We had more possession, more shots and more shots on target than Belgium today. Which kind of proves how being selective with statistics, as Rowls has done, can paint an entirely incorrect picture of how well a team played...considering Belgium comfortably deserved to beat us.

I think that when you average so few shots on goal over as many games as we did it no longer counts as "being selective with statistics". I think it counts as pointing towards a trend.

Of course it's difficult to say over as few as 8 games but perhaps we could look at Southgate's managerial career for further clues?

But as I've said before I picked a statistic which I think proved my point and not the other way round. There is, of course, a cognitive bias at play there but my wider point is very simple:

I do not think Southgate is a particularly good manager.

As for England, I'm very glad we did so well in the tournament and I'm very glad we weren't outclassed or embarrassed by anybody.

[Japebe43]

I think that when you average so few shots on goal over as many games as we did it no longer counts as "being selective with statistics". I think it counts as pointing towards a trend.

Of course it's difficult to say over as few as 8 games but perhaps we could look at Southgate's managerial career for further clues?

But as I've said before I picked a statistic which I think proved my point and not the other way round. There is, of course, a cognitive bias at play there but my wider point is very simple:

I do not think Southgate is a particularly good manager.

As for England, I'm very glad we did so well in the tournament and I'm very glad we weren't outclassed or embarrassed by anybody.

We weren't embaressed by Belgium scoreline wise, but the gulf in class is massive..

[Rowls]

We weren't embaressed by Belgium scoreline wise, but the gulf in class is massive..

Yes, I meant in scoreline.

And being embarrassed in terms of scoreline will always worry me whilst Gareth Southgate is in charge.

[Devils_Advocate]

Burnley under Dyche in the Premier league have consistently had one of the lowest shots per game ratio. Forget all his success and achievement he's a sh*t manager so lets get rid

[Rowls]

Burnley under Dyche in the Premier league have consistently had one of the lowest shots per game ratio. Forget all his success and achievement he's a sh*t manager so lets get rid

But we (Burnley) consistently create good chances; England have not.

Stats are as useful as you make them. Do with them what you will. You can "prove" anything with them. I think that the stats I've highlighted are indicative of a side who do not have much in was strategy to create the kind of chances that typically win games.

Happy to compare Dyche and Southgate's records:

Dyche:

Played 307
Won 119
Drawn 92
Lost 96

Win rate - 38.8%

This includes 3 seasons in the Premier League with ourselves as unfancied underdogs and he regularly operates on budgets that are among the lowest in the league, or else actually the lowest.

Southgate:

Played 151
Won 45
Drawn 43
Lost 63

Win rate - 29.8%

This was all with Middlesbrough who were an established Premier League side (9 consecutive seasons) when he took over with an average budget for the league. Before he was appointed they had finished consistently mid-table (averaging about 12th place) but had finished as high as 7th.

His two full seasons in charge are notable for his ability to achieve very long winless runs. In his first season in charge he managed 10 without a win. However, in his second full season in charge he "bettered" this by going 14 games without a win.

In only his second season they were relegated having scored a pitiful 28 goals in 38 games.

[DustyBawls]

I'm not sure what comparing him with Dyche does. It still results in Southgate doing well with England. That's the bottom line. He did well this tournament and I hope he stays with England for at least the next 4 (and a bit) years until the next World Cup.

[Devils_Advocate]

Typical Rowls

[Tall Paul]

In only his second season they were relegated having scored a pitiful 28 goals in 38 games.

You know that's the same number of goals we scored in SD's first PL season right?

[TVC15]

I think that when you average so few shots on goal over as many games as we did it no longer counts as "being selective with statistics". I think it counts as pointing towards a trend.

Of course it's difficult to say over as few as 8 games but perhaps we could look at Southgate's managerial career for further clues?

But as I've said before I picked a statistic which I think proved my point and not the other way round. There is, of course, a cognitive bias at play there but my wider point is very simple:

I do not think Southgate is a particularly good manager.

As for England, I'm very glad we did so well in the tournament and I'm very glad we weren't outclassed or embarrassed by anybody.

Yep you picked a statistic to back up your views of Southgate.....infact its fair to say you plucked a statistic right out of thin air.

Its already been proven on this thread that you were factually wrong on at least 2 of the games you were commenting on.

What the hell his managerial career at Middlesborough has got to do with this World Cup is beyond me. It would be far more relevant to look at his under 21 record with England.

But actually the most relevant FACT is that Southgate has just had the second most successful World Cup in the history of England managers.

It takes some kind of weirdo to look for the negative in that.

[Japebe43]

It'd be more relevant to view southgates stats as england u21 and england first team manager.

[Japebe43]

Oops.