Trump destroys Mays soft Brexit..

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:04 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Asking someone to say something in public that isn't true to influence people is a lie in my world.

It might not be in yours fair enough.

But it was true. The President of the USA said at that time we’d be at the back of the queue. He’s in charge.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:04 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:You think the US is currently negotiating trade deals with 193 countries that it currently doesn't have trade deals with? I know i'm asking a stupid question here, but can you support that opinion with anything resembling evidence?

No, none at all. I have no involvement in American politics and don't wish to.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Asking someone to say something in public that isn't true to influence people is a lie in my world.

It might not be in yours fair enough.

Just to put things into perspective. Pretty much all forms of media in this country and abroad are in agreement with your view of what was said. End of.

Remember you're dealing with a small gaggle of hard core odd balls. Irrational Odd balls, prepared to tie themselves in knots and jump through many many hoops, and meet themselves coming back if it means they can avoid them admitting they were wrong.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:05 pm

martin_p wrote:But it was true. The President of the USA said at that time we’d be at the back of the queue. He’s in charge.

Hahaha so everything Trump says now will be gospel in your eyes?

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:06 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Trumps visit has sent turtle bonkers. I am amazed you haven't gone and had a picture taken with the blimp.

But that would mean actually leaving the Turtle Bunker!!

Big problem there!!

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:06 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Apply logic, for ***** sake. You said yourself that he's not going to be in power by the time Brexit happened, so how the **** can he be making a promise?

Supressio veri and suggestio falsi.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:07 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:You couldn't make it up!

One idiot trying, but failing, to back up another idiot!

Where did you clowns first meet?

Idiotsreunited.com!?

But you’re my favourite idiot Wrongo. You’ve linked articles that don’t say Obama lied.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:No, none at all. I have no involvement in American politics and don't wish to.

Well, at least we've got you admitting that you hold opinions that aren't supported by any evidence "at all".

The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. I hope in future you'll use this admission to only use facts to inform the opinions you form and share.

Edit: corrected double negative. But Ringo will still act like a child about it for weeks.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Asking someone to say something in public that isn't true to influence people is a lie in my world.

It might not be in yours fair enough.

I refer you to quicken the tempos previous answer to you.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:11 pm

martin_p wrote:But you’re my favourite idiot Wrongo. You’ve linked articles that don’t say Obama lied.

See above. 8.0 idiot

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:12 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Well, at least we've got you admitting that you hold opinion that aren't supported by no evidence "at all".

The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. I hope in future you'll use this admission to only use facts to inform the opinions you form and share.

I trust you only use facts about Trump and not your opinion ?

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:13 pm

Trump has just backtracked on his interview with The Sun - Says it's "Fake news!

Coming on to Brexit, Donald Trump says: "I don't know what they're [the UK] going to do but whatever you do is OK by me."

"That's your decision," he says adding "just make sure we can trade together that's all that matters".

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Well, at least we've got you admitting that you hold opinion that aren't supported by no evidence "at all".

The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. I hope in future you'll use this admission to only use facts to inform the opinions you form and share.

So what facts do you have, that Obama was telling the truth?

What facts does anyone on this messageboard have when posting on any thread?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:See above. 8.0 idiot

Go on then. Find the word ‘lie’ in any of the articles you’ve linked.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

He's just said that the sun was "fake news"

I'm not making this up. He's forgetting stuff he said to it 24 hours ago.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:I trust you only use facts about Trump and not your opinion ?

I only use facts to inform my opinion. If i express an opinion about trump i can provide you the facts that have informed my opinion. Go ahead and test it. Find an opinion I've expressed about Trump and i'll show you what facts inform that opinion.

Edit: It's not just about Trump either. Find any opinion i've shared, on anything, and i'll provide you the facts that have informed that opinion.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:15 pm

Foshiznik wrote:Trump has just backtracked on his interview with The Sun - Says it's "Fake news!

Coming on to Brexit, Donald Trump says: "I don't know what they're [the UK] going to do but whatever you do is OK by me."

"That's your decision," he says adding "just make sure we can trade together that's all that matters".

This is why I feel confident in trusting what Obama says a damn sight more than Trump!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:15 pm

Brexiteers are pinning their hopes on this chap.

I think its great, its more and more likely that we'll never leave as those who aren't massive UKIP voters go "WTF? What planet is this bloke on"

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:16 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:He's just said that the sun was "fake news"

I'm not making this up. He's forgetting stuff he said to it 24 hours ago.

Trump does this a lot. He says something. The press reports that he said it. He then called the press 'fake news' because they reported what he said.

His supporters lap it up though because they hate the lugenpresse too.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:17 pm

Foshiznik wrote:Trump has just backtracked on his interview with The Sun - Says it's "Fake news!

Coming on to Brexit, Donald Trump says: "I don't know what they're [the UK] going to do but whatever you do is OK by me."

"That's your decision," he says adding "just make sure we can trade together that's all that matters".

It seems Trump uses the age old tactics of firing off first before debating so the other side feel they get a good deal when you back down slightly but still come away with everything you wanted.

Disclaimer- I have no factual evidence to back this up.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:17 pm

Yeah, but this is the first time he's done it to the British press.

They won't be cowed like the US Press corp are.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:19 pm

So he blatantly lies and you are fine with it.

Says absolutely everything.

Who gives a **** eh? Its only like an essential part of a functioning democracy.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:19 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:It seems Trump uses the age old tactics of firing off first before debating so the other side feel they get a good deal when you back down slightly but still come away with everything you wanted.

Disclaimer- I have no factual evidence to back this up.

You don't, but i bet you could explain what facts you've used to inform your opinion, can't you? And that's really all i'm asking. Except when you state facts, then i'm asking you to support those facts with evidence. This isn't unreasonable. Stop acting like it is.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Well, at least we've got you admitting that you hold opinion that aren't supported by no evidence "at all"..

Double negative alert!!!

This is the start of the tieing in knots process!!

Normal people should now stand back to a safe distance for their own safety.

A Turtles Head spinning round like a washing machine on intensive wash and stains setting is going to be pretty messy!

"hold opinion that aren't supported by no evidence "at all"

Double negs are a sign that the special turtle rope will be brought out and some strategically placed knots will be on their way!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Yeah, but this is the first time he's done it to the British press.

They won't be cowed like the US Press corp are.

The Sun might be cowed. It'd require Murdoch to get involved to protect Fox News channel's role as Trump's propaganda channel if Trump ever finds out he owns both.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:21 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:So he blatantly lies and you are fine with it.

Says absolutely everything.

Who gives a **** eh? Its only like an essential part of a functioning democracy.

They all blatantly lie. They are career politicians. Well apart from Trump but we won't really get to see why he ran for president until he's gone.

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:22 pm

I terms of the Obama vs Trump meddling in UK affairs thing.

Isn't the big difference that Obama was called over by Cameron and Remainers specifically to influence the Brexit referendum, the biggest democratic vote of our lifetime.

While Trump is just laying out the USA's position in terms of Brexit and a trade deal. He can't be influencing our democracy; we've already had the vote.

Just saying.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:23 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Asking someone to say something in public that isn't true to influence people is a lie in my world.

It might not be in yours fair enough.

I agree with the above

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:24 pm

He's standing next to May and saying that Boris Johnson would make a good PM.

This would be funny, if it wasn't so serious.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:26 pm

So you don't think Trump is being used in anyway to influence anything to do with the UK?

**** off mate, no one is that thick.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:26 pm

LongsideFacingUp wrote:I terms of the Obama vs Trump meddling in UK affairs thing.

Isn't the big difference that Obama was called over by Cameron and Remainers specifically to influence the Brexit referendum, the biggest democratic vote of our lifetime.

While Trump is just laying out the USA's position in terms of Brexit and a trade deal. He can't be influencing our democracy; we've already had the vote.

Just saying.

Leave voters already brought Obama into the debate when the claimed that setting up these awesome trade deals would be easy if we leave. Why should Leave voters be allowed to make claims that only foreign leaders could refute, yet claim "interference" when one of them refutes their claim?

It's incredible to me that your problem isn't with the Leave campaigners who told you these incorrect things, but you have a problem with them being corrected. It's ridiculous.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:27 pm

martin_p wrote:Go on then. Find the word ‘lie’ in any of the articles you’ve linked.

Marty The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

See above post for the 2nd time .

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:27 pm

martin_p wrote:This is why I feel confident in trusting what Obama says a damn sight more than Trump!

When you look at it from afar with no agenda, there won't be much difference in anything either president achieves.

Every bad policy Trump gets pulled up with went on under all previous presidents.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:29 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:When you look at it from afar with no agenda, there won't be much difference in anything either president achieves.

Every bad policy Trump gets pulled up with went on under all previous presidents.

Please point to Obama's zero-tolerance border policy that meant thousands of children were deliberately (and many permanently) separated from their asylum-seeking parents.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:30 pm

Obama said "back of the queue" before brexit, when he knew he wouldn't be President when we left, so had no right to say it.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:30 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:So you don't think Trump is being used in anyway to influence anything to do with the UK?

**** off mate, no one is that thick.

Lancaster when so many little arguments are going on in the same thread it's easier if you quote who you're referring to?

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Please point to Obama's zero-tolerance border policy that meant thousands of children were deliberately (and many permanently) separated from their asylum-seeking parents.

Social media was awash with evidence on Obama splitting children up last week.

Or is the word zero critical to your post?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:35 pm

claretandy wrote:Obama said "back of the queue" before brexit, when he knew he wouldn't be President when we left, so had no right to say it.

He was the president of America. He was speaking on behalf of the American federal government. Of course he had a right to say it. He was elected, twice, by people that gave him the right to speak on behalf of their government.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:37 pm

The quote is Longsidefacingup

Its his quote and my reply is to him.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:40 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He was the president of America. He was speaking on behalf of the American federal government. Of course he had a right to say it. He was elected, twice, by people that gave him the right to speak on behalf of their government.

Yet no mention here of how you dislike the voting system when it results in Obama getting in.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:42 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:Marty The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

See above post for the 2nd time .

You mean trying to get you to admit you're wrong Wrongo, You're probably right.
No worries, I'll answer my question for you - number of times the articles you link (claiming evidence of Obama lying) use the word lie...…..0

Maybe they're not about him lying after all eh!

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Social media was awash with evidence on Obama splitting children up last week.

Or is the word zero critical to your post?

Of course it was. And i'm certain you believed every bit of it, didn't you? Except it wasn't a policy of Obama's to split up families. Just because it happened rarely under Obama doesn't make it a policy under Obama. Obama didn't have a zero-tolerance policy that meant innocent asylum seekers crossing the border got separated. Neither did he have a policy that separated families committing a misdemeanour offence of crossing illegally for the first time. But no doubt because felony illegal crossings (repeat offenders) lead to children being separated (because kids can't be imprisoned with their parents), which still isn't an Obama policy but an act of ******* law, you'll agree with those who claim that because illegal immigrants committing a felony were separated from their parents that it's the exact same as literally every illegal immigrant and asylum seeker being separated from their parents.

And this is why you shouldn't blindly and unquestioningly believe something on right-wing social media. Because they'll keep these facts out of the story to shape your opinions. And because you don't know this context even exists you probably thought yourself well informed on the issue.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:43 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Yet no mention here of how you dislike the voting system when it results in Obama getting in.

What are you on about now?

Are you seriously suggesting that i only oppose the electoral college way of doing things because Trump got elected? Seriously? Even after I've repeatedly railed against our stupid voting system that got a party I like (the SNP) way more seats than it would have got under a voting system i prefer (PR)?

You dumb ****.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:56 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:What are you on about now?

Are you seriously suggesting that i only oppose the electoral college way of doing things because Trump got elected? Seriously? Even after I've repeatedly railed against our stupid voting system that got a party I like (the SNP) way more seats than it would have got under a voting system i prefer (PR)?

You dumb ****.

Do you ever reply to anyone without name calling?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:58 pm

Murger wrote:Do you ever reply to anyone without name calling?

I did wonder if someone would immediately jump on that after they've ignored every single Ringo post for the last 6 months, especially after how rarely i actually do any form of "name-calling", but i honestly didn't expect it to come so quickly.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:02 pm

martin_p wrote:So what did you ‘see with your own eyes’ that made you believe Obama was lying?

Today's statement by Trump

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:04 pm

martin_p wrote:You mean trying to get you to admit you're wrong Wrongo, You're probably right.
No worries, I'll answer my question for you - number of times the articles you link (claiming evidence of Obama lying) use the word lie...…..0

Maybe they're not about him lying after all eh!

The articles show Cameron asked him.

He obliged.

Today's statement by Trump and May show it was a lie.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I googled it and found that you made it up that Cameron asked him to lie.

Hi IT, my google search was "cameron obama brexit."

BBC reported 2-Jul-2018: Obama adviser on how Cameron asked for Brexit warning

Former White House adviser Ben Rhodes has told BBC Radio 5 live that David Cameron asked President Obama to say that Brexit would mean Britain being “at the back of the queue.”

Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live’s Anna Foster, Ben Rhodes explained the story of how the warning came about.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4468853 ... it-warning" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty full report also available on Sky News site: Cameron 'personally requested Obama's back of the queue Brexit warning'

https://news.sky.com/story/cameron-pers ... g-11423669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally, I wouldn't say that Obama was "lying" - just making a "politically motivated statement" - no different from any other politician.

The issue is that Obama's statement was made during a referendum period - thus seeking to influence the votes of the electorate in another democracy. I think we should all "frown on" that sort of actions.

EDIT: Posted in response to IT's "I googled it...."

Have only now read through the rest of the thread. I now see that I've "repeated" the links that Ringo has already posted. I don't want to get drawn into a "debate" between Ringo and some of his "friends" (or otherwise) on here. Life is much too short.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:08 pm

martin_p wrote:Again Wrongo, your grasp on the English language let’s you down. The articles you link say that the Obama ‘back of the line’ comment was made by Obama in Brexit discussions with Cameron. Cameron asked him to repeat this in public.

Asked him to repeat in public

Asked him to lie

The first is true,

After today's statements by May and trump show the second also proven to be true

There Marty ! All updated and on the ball!

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:08 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:

I did wonder if someone would immediately jump on that after they've ignored every single Ringo post for the last 6 months, especially after how rarely i actually do any form of "name-calling", but i honestly didn't expect it to come so quickly.

He does it with a sort of artistic flair though.