How can an average person benefit from Brexit

[claretonthecoast1882]

If the UK ran out of drinking water following a hard brexit I think the biggest danger would be the amount of Europeans who immediately die laughing.
Me being one.

Hopefully with an attitude like this you would be the first to go, better hurry up with that best seller enid blyton

[nil_desperandum]

Hopefully with an attitude like this you would be the first to go, better hurry up with that best seller enid blyton

I'm pretty sure it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, and I'm sure you are aware that to "die laughing" isn't linked to mortality.

[RingoMcCartney]

Taken from the claret v geordies live match thread -

"# 96

Claret-On-A-T-Rex

Re: MIGHTY CLARETS v Newcastle GeordiesHome

PostMon Nov 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Night all, got better things to do than watch this crap."





The team goes down after 20 minutes, and a certain plastic fan waves his white flag and capitulates.

Typical Remoaner........

[ClaretAndJew]

Taken from the claret v geordies live match thread -

"# 96

Claret-On-A-T-Rex

Re: MIGHTY CLARETS v Newcastle GeordiesHome

PostMon Nov 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Night all, got better things to do than watch this crap."



Is ones attitude to football synonymous with brexit?



The team goes down after 20 minutes, and a certain plastic fan waves his white flag and capitulates.

Typical Remoaner........

[ClaretAndJew]

Why doesn't my comment show under the quote??? BREXIT BRITAIN STRIKES AGAIN FFS.

[claretonthecoast1882]

You seem to moan about Brexit & Burnley a lot so you could answer that with a yes for some people

[South West Claret.]

This Government are so entertaining:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam ... mwidth=450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[evensteadiereddie]

Very good.
The pub's open in a few hours for the Brexiteers to continue enjoying their win..................

[Bordeauxclaret]

Very good.
The pub's open in a few hours for the Brexiteers to continue enjoying their win..................

Love Fridays.

[dsr]

So after two pages worth of replies, most of them not relevant to the question, I can assume that there isn’t really any ways an average joe can make money out of Brexit.

To be fair, if you ask a silly question you will get a silly answer. It's like asking how can an average person make money out of a Conservative government. An average person can't make money out of a specific government, all he/she can do is accept what the government throws at him.

[evensteadiereddie]

Just you WAIT FOR THE SHOUTY CAPITAL LETTERS and to come flooding in once the ale and the rage kick in.

[MACCA]

The answer is in your first paragraph!

Eh..

[martin_p]

Taken from the claret v geordies live match thread -

"# 96

Claret-On-A-T-Rex

Re: MIGHTY CLARETS v Newcastle GeordiesHome

PostMon Nov 26, 2018 8:54 pm

Night all, got better things to do than watch this crap."





The team goes down after 20 minutes, and a certain plastic fan waves his white flag and capitulates.

Typical Remoaner........

Were you on the match then Wrongo?

[martin_p]

To be fair, if you ask a silly question you will get a silly answer. It's like asking how can an average person make money out of a Conservative government. An average person can't make money out of a specific government, all he/she can do is accept what the government throws at him.

This isn’t a specific government, it’s a specific policy.

[RocketLawnChair]

So after two pages worth of replies, most of them not relevant to the question, I can assume that there isn’t really any ways an average joe can make money out of Brexit.



I might start a thread asking how much money might I lose due to Brexit

Perhaps if however unlikely the decision is reversed and we were to Remain in the EU surely you would be first on here Inchy telling all us 'average joes' how we can all make a shed load more money.

Benefiting from something is generally a personal /individual decision or investment for the 'average joe' or sometimes that bit of luck. The company I work in will actually benefit from May's proposal with an immediate 10% increase on a large chunk of our goods this will reflect in our bonuses. So are you asking me can I get you a job?

[Espia]

The original question may as well be "How can an average person benefit from any given situation".

It's the same answer regardless of what you applying it to : Ingenuity, creativity, imagination, speculation, luck, hard work, resolve, desire etc, etc.

But I guess the OP wasn't saying what he really wanted to say. It was merely a preamble to allowing him to express his own dogma..... whatever that maybe. I genuinely don't know as I haven't read the thread !!

[martin_p]

Perhaps if however unlikely the decision is reversed and we were to Remain in the EU surely you would be first on here Inchy telling all us 'average joes' how we can all make a shed load more money.

Benefiting from something is generally a personal /individual decision or investment for the 'average joe' or sometimes that bit of luck. The company I work in will actually benefit from May's proposal with an immediate 10% increase on a large chunk of our goods this will reflect in our bonuses. So are you asking me can I get you a job?

But May's deal means a transition period meaning things largely stay the same at the end of March 2019. How does that translate to an immediate 10% increase on a large chunk of goods? (not saying you're wrong by the way, just intersted)

[RocketLawnChair]

But May's deal means a transition period meaning things largely stay the same at the end of March 2019. How does that translate to an immediate 10% increase on a large chunk of goods? (not saying you're wrong by the way, just intersted)

Roughly and do accept it is not my job within the company to fully understand these things.With the transition period being potentially fixed in place until some point in 2020 it as provided the period of stability required to enforce agreed price rises and this time period coincides with our new developments. As I understand it is something to do with the parts becoming aftermarket. In my owners opinion our customers have been screwing us down for two years using the uncertainty of Brexit as their argument. So even though the uncertainty would remain there would actually now be something in place.

If you need to know more martinp because I can guarantee that it is far more complex than based on my very limited knowledge of how that side of the company runs I would have to ask Joanne from business development to join UTC which is highly unlikely. I just know that 26 products would automatically increase by 10% which will automatically reflect in our bonuses .

[martin_p]

Roughly and do accept it is not my job within the company to fully understand these things.With the transition period being potentially fixed in place until some point in 2020 it as provided the period of stability required to enforce agreed price rises and this time period coincides with our new developments. As I understand it is something to do with the parts becoming aftermarket. In my owners opinion our customers have been screwing us down for two years using the uncertainty of Brexit as their argument. So even though the uncertainty would remain there would actually now be something in place.

If you need to know more martinp because I can guarantee that it is far more complex than based on my very limited knowledge of how that side of the company runs I would have to ask Joanne from business development to join UTC which is highly unlikely. I just know that 26 products would automatically increase by 10% which will automatically reflect in our bonuses .

OK. But wouldn't remaining in the EU have the same effect?

[IanMcL]

The average person will find that things may cost more, ad the pound drops.

The European folk may, subconsciously treat average Joe differently.

There will be plenty of menial jobs available, to replace jobs lost in the Euro shuffle, when the person realises his bosses have no idea how to overcome the loss of one market and the need to follow different rules and overcome obstacles in new countries.

The average person's working and life conditions will erode, as the Tories decide on a lowest common denominator approach, to get a competitive edge. The bosses will still take their normal cut.

For most, they probably won't notice for a time.

[dsr]

The average person will find that things may cost more, ad the pound drops.

The European folk may, subconsciously treat average Joe differently.

There will be plenty of menial jobs available, to replace jobs lost in the Euro shuffle, when the person realises his bosses have no idea how to overcome the loss of one market and the need to follow different rules and overcome obstacles in new countries.

The average person's working and life conditions will erode, as the Tories decide on a lowest common denominator approach, to get a competitive edge. The bosses will still take their normal cut.

For most, they probably won't notice for a time.

There are people on this board who openly proclaim that they are more intelligent because they voted Remain. Is that what you're getting at? That the pro-Europeans have this innate sense of "I'm better than you"?

As for jobs lost and bosses having no idea how to cope - well, for one thing, you've missed the point altogether about the loss of the market. The EU market will still be open for business; the difference is that there may be tariffs and that different forms will have to be filled in. The same forms as are already filled in for exports to non-EU companies, in fact. I doubt there are many successful exporting businesses that won't be able to cope.

[evensteadiereddie]

"There are people on this board who openly proclaim that they are more intelligent because they voted Remain. Is that what you're getting at? That the pro-Europeans have this innate sense of "I'm better than you"?" "

Where does IanMcL even hint at that ? Sounds like someone's got themselves an inferiority complex............

[Rowls]

So after two pages worth of replies, most of them not relevant to the question, I can assume that there isn’t really any ways an average joe can make money out of Brexit.

I might start a thread asking how much money might I lose due to Brexit

Essentially there's not a lot you can do unless you have enough to make some speculative investments. But you won't lose money either.

[RocketLawnChair]

OK. But wouldn't remaining in the EU have the same effect?

Possibly but Steve and Joanne had no real control over the result of the referendum !

[martin_p]

Possibly but Steve and Joanne had no real control over the result of the referendum !

True. But on the other hand it doesn’t really count as a benefit of Brexit!

[Top Claret]

We won't know until it actually happens and if the PM deal goes through we will never know.

Hard Brexit would more than likely mean a couple of months of chaos at the most. The EU buisnes community are not going to cut its ties with the UK one of their largest export markets.

Once things have settled down, a new PM (preferably tory) can start turning the country into a world player again and not some doss house for Europes poor.

[RocketLawnChair]

True. But on the other hand it doesn’t really count as a benefit of Brexit!

Read my posts. I said we would benefit from May’s proposal going through. The jist of my reply to the OPs post above mine was making money is down to indviduals and comes in different guises.If the OP thinks by asking on a football message board how can I make a few quid and it was that easy we’d all be ******* loaded. How would I make money if we remained in the EU martinip? I’m asking on behalf of all the average joes.

[Guich]

If Claret on a T-Rex really left on Monday as soon as we went 2-0 down, I doubt he/she has an opinion worth listening to.

[Lancasterclaret]

Once things have settled down, a new PM (preferably tory) can start turning the country into a world player again and not some doss house for Europes poor.

***** sake. The ones who work come over here. Enriching our country.

next you'll be claiming they take all the jobs while simultaneously claiming all the benefits

[Paul Waine]

So after two pages worth of replies, most of them not relevant to the question, I can assume that there isn’t really any ways an average joe can make money out of Brexit.
I might start a thread asking how much money might I lose due to Brexit

Hi Inchy, am I right that you work in NHS, or is my memory poor about yours/others posts from some time back? Or, are you asking about opportunities for any "average joe" (which we will take as including all the female and male joes)?

Average Joe, employed by state (NHS, teachers and many other state employee roles), generally secure jobs, numbers employed may change reflecting changes in GDP and politics - but you will never "get rich." You may always enjoy your job, or you may be frustrated by the (slow) pace of change/not being able to influence change, challeneges in winning new investment/new ways of doing things, IT systems etc. etc. etc.

Average Joe, employed in private sector, you can stay where you are - but you and your employer might not progress and your employer might fail - and you are out of a job. Or, you can develop your skills, grow with your existing employer, grow further with new employers - try to pick out the ones who look like they are growing and will "win" in business. You earnings will grow - but, your job may never be secure.

If you want to be rich: you get the best experience you can, you learn in all your employee roles (whether this is state sector or private sector) and then you have an idea that you think you can build your own business - and make a success of that business. And, for some, this will come off (and for others it won't - but we never think of the one's who don't succeed as "rich" - as mentioned above, business man/woman fails to become rich doesn't make the news).

Who can we think of who's followed the path above - "average Joe" to "rich business man?" I suggest look at how Mike Garlick and John B have built their respective business successes. I guess we can all agree, neither has got rich "out of Brexit" - because they've built their businesses a number of years back. And, will they "lose due to Brexit?" - I suspect not, as they both operate global businesses - so, they aren't solely dependant on the relationship the UK has with the EU.

And, that's the point I want to get across, if you want to build something with some success, don't base on a single "point of failure" - don't base it on the UK being in the EU or not being in the EU - spread your risks - and work hard.

[martin_p]

If Claret on a T-Rex really left on Monday as soon as we went 2-0 down, I doubt he/she has an opinion worth listening to.

Wrongo’s quotes are from the match thread, so it’s unlikely Claret-on-a-T-Rex was on the match. Wrongo was on the match thread as well so it’s unlikely he was on the match either. Wrongo has got all snowflakey because someone left the match thread at 0-2.

[Inchy]

Sorry I should have explained myself better

First of all I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I am a lay person when it comes to Brexit, I don’t profess to know much about it at all. I don’t really care if we leave or stay. The only reason I lean towards stay is because I don’t see Brexit as worth a the risk. But as I say I’m no expert, no one is on here, although many people won’t be willing to admit they are equally as clueless as me.


I work in the NHS. I earn a modest salary. I’m a band 6 charge nurse so it’s no secret what I earn. Brexit May negatively effect my work as I estimate about 30 percent of the people I work with are from the EU. But who knows.

What I want to know is if I had 10k to spend/invest (I don’t) what’s the safest bet, and what’s the balliest bet to earn money out of Brexit.

If we had stayed in I could ask the same question but I am assume Brexit will create some unique opportunities to profit

[Paul Waine]

Hi Inchy,

safest bet for your (hypothetical) £10,000 - put it in a bank account paying 1.5% (or thereabouts). It's safe because you are g'teed to get your £10,000 back + interest. (With inflation your capital might be worth less than it was when you put into bank). Safest bet = no risk and also equals no reward.

High risk bet - with potential for high reward (with a Brexit flavour)? How about setting up a B&B in the Ribble Valley - if UK leaves EU in no deal and Brits aren't able to holiday in Spain (or other EU countries) then there will be high demand for good quality holidays in the UK. Maybe it will be Ribble Valley's time to shine - and you will have the best B&B offering. Get it right, your £10,000 could be worth 2 or 3 times higher in a few years time. Why B&B - if all the hotels are struggling for staff, as EU workers are "locked out" then a small B&B will be one a winner (but you will also need to be your own staff).

As with all "investment" advice - the value of my advice may go down - and you may lose all your money (or something like that). Good luck.

[CrosspoolClarets]

I can’t beat Paul on this, his answer is too good, but regardless......

Before, and regardless of Brexit, we have bubbles everywhere and flat income. House prices are too high, stocks are too high, bank interest is too low, living costs are too high, wages are too stagnant. Hardly the sunny uplands the rabid Remainers are calling life in the EU, but hey ho (yes I do think there is a connection).

So. If someone had £10,000 I would be struggling advising them (and I advise hospitals not people with money so take my comments with a pinch of salt).

As regards myself, with my pension and investments, I am sitting tight, with most in cash and in gold. It’s done bugger all for 10 years and it’s added 10 years to my retirement date but it’s time will come. The establishment in the U.K. and the EU have shafted people for a decade, but “Mr. market always wins” as any good investor knows. To use layman’s terms, bubbles always burst. Those who invest during them deserve all they get afterwards.

[Lancasterclaret]

Hardly the sunny uplands the rabid Remainers are calling life in the EU, but hey ho (yes I do think there is a connection).

I'm 100% wasting my time here, but prove it.

[Lancasterclaret]

I fully agree with investment advice though, as if you've got £10,000 you want to make sure its safe as it could possibly be at the moment and for the foreseeable future.

It does say a hell of a lot though that a Brexiteer is investing on the safe side. He's not as cavalier with his own money as he is with his rosy Brexit predictions.

[Spiral]

House prices are too high, stocks are too high, bank interest is too low, living costs are too high, wages are too stagnant. Hardly the sunny uplands the rabid Remainers are calling life in the EU, but hey ho (yes I do think there is a connection).

House prices are addressed by domestic policy, higher stock prices are a product of 1. QE, and 2. depreciated pound (as a result of the Brexit vote), BoE interest base rate is independent of Eurozone/ECB (not sure what your point is there), cost of living and wage stagnation is addressed domestically. Literally none of those points are addressed by leaving the EU in any way shape or form, nor are solutions to any of those problems in any way inhibited by EU membership. Leave or remain, May's deal, no deal or Norway+, none of what you have posted will be addressed, let alone rectified, by Brexit. Sorry to be blunt but you have your head up your arse.

[CrosspoolClarets]

House prices are addressed by domestic policy, higher stock prices are a product of 1. QE, and 2. depreciated pound (as a result of the Brexit vote), BoE interest base rate is independent of Eurozone/ECB (not sure what your point is there), cost of living and wage stagnation is addressed domestically. Literally none of those points are addressed by leaving the EU in any way shape or form, nor are solutions to any of those problems in any way inhibited by EU membership. Leave or remain, May's deal, no deal or Norway+, none of what you have posted will be addressed, let alone rectified, by Brexit. Sorry to be blunt but you have your head up your arse.

Sadly Spiral, debating with you or Lancaster used to be fun but these days is becoming like talking to a brick wall. I think you’re past the point of rational debate and far too keen to play the man not the ball.

I said there was a connection. This isn’t something I “blame” the EU for. There is no need to overthink it. I tend to think that culturally our establishment and the EU have blended into one. Far too pro big business etc. Without this culture, we wouldn’t have the economic problems we have. We are less entrepreneurial as a result, we have an employee, risk averse and protectionist mindset. Our small businesses cannot thrive. So I want to change the culture, I don’t blame the EU for that, it is just a rational choice.

House prices of course will fall due to migration decreases, but only marginally. I believe house prices are mainly dictated by the cost and the supply of credit, not of housing stock.

I don’t even think, after the initial wobble, we would have a crash after a no deal. We would engage in more QE and stocks would boom again. So yes, I agree that domestic policy is primary. You can not dismiss the cultural mindset though. This message board at times sums it up.

[Lancasterclaret]

We are past the point of rational debate?

**** off

You call out every expert in the field because it doesn't fit your vision of Brexit. People who have far more experience in exactly those field than you or I. Not just you, but other bright people like dsr and rowls who should know better.

Just be honest with yourself for a change. You want this. More than absolutely anything. But you can't justify it to people who don't share your vision AND don't believe stuff that is told to them that is contradicted by an absolute **** load of information.

So you try to spin it.

I'll be alright like you after Brexit. Difference is I know lots of people won't be and it bloody bothers me enough to counter act any issues I might have with the EU.

I mean, how can you debate rationally with someone who thinks people under 30 shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Physician, heal thyself

[martin_p]

Sadly Spiral, debating with you or Lancaster used to be fun but these days is becoming like talking to a brick wall. I think you’re past the point of rational debate and far too keen to play the man not the ball.

I said there was a connection. This isn’t something I “blame” the EU for. There is no need to overthink it. I tend to think that culturally our establishment and the EU have blended into one. Far too pro big business etc. Without this culture, we wouldn’t have the economic problems we have. We are less entrepreneurial as a result, we have an employee, risk averse and protectionist mindset. Our small businesses cannot thrive. So I want to change the culture, I don’t blame the EU for that, it is just a rational choice.

House prices of course will fall due to migration decreases, but only marginally. I believe house prices are mainly dictated by the cost and the supply of credit, not of housing stock.

I don’t even think, after the initial wobble, we would have a crash after a no deal. We would engage in more QE and stocks would boom again. So yes, I agree that domestic policy is primary. You can not dismiss the cultural mindset though. This message board at times sums it up.

In the last ten years the number of small businesses in the U.K. has gone up by over 30%.

[Spiral]

Sadly Spiral, debating with you or Lancaster used to be fun but these days is becoming like talking to a brick wall. I think you’re past the point of rational debate and far too keen to play the man not the ball.

I said there was a connection. This isn’t something I “blame” the EU for. There is no need to overthink it. I tend to think that culturally our establishment and the EU have blended into one. Far too pro big business etc. Without this culture, we wouldn’t have the economic problems we have. We are less entrepreneurial as a result, we have an employee, risk averse and protectionist mindset. Our small businesses cannot thrive. So I want to change the culture, I don’t blame the EU for that, it is just a rational choice.

House prices of course will fall due to migration decreases, but only marginally. I believe house prices are mainly dictated by the cost and the supply of credit, not of housing stock.

I don’t even think, after the initial wobble, we would have a crash after a no deal. We would engage in more QE and stocks would boom again. So yes, I agree that domestic policy is primary. You can not dismiss the cultural mindset though. This message board at times sums it up.

I can't for the life of me actually remember ever 'debating' with you on anything. Perhaps I might have responded to the odd post or two of yours but beyond that, I'm lost. I'm not in the least surprised that you'd take the route of arguing that your interlocutor (me, in this case) is debating from a position of irrationality, and that you'd use an utterly fictional nostalgia for a time when your interlocutor was, in such a fiction, 'more reasonable', as a means to discrediting the points I'm making today, because we all know you're struggling to actually play the ball, here.

"There is no need to overthink it." You're moving the goalposts. How does the BoE base rate affect British culture? You started down this path, I'm curious to see where it ends. Vis-a-vis the availability of credit, you'll remember (I hope) that the financial crisis in 07-08 was a consequence of the US sub-prime mortgage crisis, and its impact on over-leveraged banks. I'm all for regulation. The EU actually enacted legislation to ensure such over-leveraging doesn't happen again. I'm not slightest bit surprised that the ERG Brexiteers are opposed to such legislation and are pitching financial market deregulation as part of their post-Brexit vision.

I actually thought you were lamenting stock prices in your previous post, but here you seem to be celebrating the mechanism by which stock prices have been inflated. Again, I'm not sure where you're at.

I do love, however - and from what I can tell, this is the first time a Brexiteer on this board has conceded as much - that Brexit is about how you 'feel' rather than what is 'real'. I'd call you all pu$$ies but that wouldn't be PC.

[dsr]

You call out every expert in the field because it doesn't fit your vision of Brexit. People who have far more experience in exactly those field than you or I. Not just you, but other bright people like dsr and rowls who should know better.

You called?

I suppose one valid question is, which brand of ecomomics experts are considered to be the more infallible? Is it the ones who were utterly wrong about the 2008 crash, who didn't see it coming, who were running blindly into disaster and didn't see the oncoming train until it hit them in the face? Or is it the ones who were too young to work through that time and therefore haven't (yet) proved how wrong they can be?

It is possible that all the experts are right. But it is also possible, as 2008 proved, that they are all wrong. Economists flock together - 90% of them follow the same basic assumptions, so naturally they get the same answer.

[dsr]

I do love, however - and from what I can tell, this is the first time a Brexiteer on this board has conceded as much - that Brexit is about how you 'feel' rather than what is 'real'. I'd call you all pussies but that wouldn't be PC.

I'd have thought that was obvious. So obvious as to be barely worth mentioning. It was exactly the same in the Scottish independence referendum - the nationalists (not a pejorative term where the Scots are concerned) never claimed that there were big economic advantages to independence, just that Scotland was well able to survive without English support. As a general rule of thumb, independence referendums tend to be first and foremost about independence.

[Paul Waine]

We are past the point of rational debate?

**** off

You call out every expert in the field because it doesn't fit your vision of Brexit. People who have far more experience in exactly those field than you or I. Not just you, but other bright people like dsr and rowls who should know better.

Just be honest with yourself for a change. You want this. More than absolutely anything. But you can't justify it to people who don't share your vision AND don't believe stuff that is told to them that is contradicted by an absolute **** load of information.

So you try to spin it.

I'll be alright like you after Brexit. Difference is I know lots of people won't be and it bloody bothers me enough to counter act any issues I might have with the EU.

I mean, how can you debate rationally with someone who thinks people under 30 shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Physician, heal thyself

Hi Lancs, Crosspool doesn't need me to defend his position. If we stop and think about it, we should see that he makes some good points about both the UK and the major EU economies (I don't think all the EU27 are the same - which is one of the "pities" of the euro).

I'm happy to look at the details of the Treasury and BoE economic forecasts/projections and stress test scenarios. As is often the case, the media has not understood what their reports have actually said - and, unfortunately, much of the media has chosen to "quote them" as making the case that the media themselves want to be aligned with. It is a pity politicians (as well as many others) place the label "experts" on these econometric models - as though being an "expert" means that they are expressing "delphic" truths that cannot and should not be challenged.

I've read (most of) the BoE's stress test report. I think it's pretty good, well presented and very reasonable. Anyone that is involved in financial stress testing knows that you develop scenearios that can be "worst case" and "plausible" but in doing this you are not saying (I want to type "NOT saying" - but it's not my style to "raise my voice") that this is what you expect to happen or might happen - only that it creates a good scenario for the purpose of stress testing the financial institutions capital.

I didn't see Mark Carney saying "worst recession since 1930s." I hope he didn't say this - the BoE stress test report doesn't say this. I'm sure BoE has learnt from the mistakes that were made in 2016 when comments were made in the period before the referendum.

Personally, at this stage and given where we all are, I hope TM's withdrawal agreement gets the backing of Parliament. I feel that is the only sensible way to start to re-unite the majority in our country. I also hope that TM goes on to build the new relationship with the EU that both the EU and the UK needs - and that this new relationship recognises that the UK can enter into new trading agreements with other countries across the global.

What am I doing with my pension savings? I'm lucky enough to be back working as an employee at 65 and planning to keep going through to 2020. A couple more years work is my "hedge" against the "ups and downs" of the world's economies and, therefore, my pension savings.

Anyway, a night's sleep and I'll be getting ready to go to Selhurst Park.

UTC

[Spiral]

I'd have thought that was obvious. So obvious as to be barely worth mentioning. It was exactly the same in the Scottish independence referendum - the nationalists (not a pejorative term where the Scots are concerned) never claimed that there were big economic advantages to independence, just that Scotland was well able to survive without English support. As a general rule of thumb, independence referendums tend to be first and foremost about independence.

Odd, that. I could've sword you've gone great lengths on here to argue the imagined (*cough* bullshit) trade and macroeconomic potential of EU secession.

[dsr]

Odd, that. I could've sword you've gone great lengths on here to argue the trade and macroeconomic potential of EU secession.

Yes, I have. That's all that most Remainers are bothered about. (With the odd nod towards how the EEC/EU has replaced NATO as the bulwark against world war.)

[Spiral]

Well yes, economic cooperation does have a canny knack of stopping countries from flattening one another. Not like it's the entire basis of the union, or owt.

[Inchy]

I fear wear have drifted off topic again


Might just stick 10k on Palace

[martin_p]

I suppose one valid question is, which brand of ecomomics experts are considered to be the more infallible? Is it the ones who were utterly wrong about the 2008 crash, who didn't see it coming, who were running blindly into disaster and didn't see the oncoming train until it hit them in the face? Or is it the ones who were too young to work through that time and therefore haven't (yet) proved how wrong they can be?

What a bizarre argument! One can only assume dsr is infallible in whatever profession he has.

[Lancasterclaret]

Anyone who thinks that Scotlands (which has some devolved powers, but no control over everything that really matters in what constitutes the definition of an independent country) place in the UK is the same or even similar to the UKs in the EU is howling at the moon.

Basically, if you believe that, then believing stuff on the side of a big red bus is chicken feed.

And dsr, you no longer argue about the economic benefits of Brexit on here. You used to.

Reality has forced you to change the message.

Thats why the Brexit message is floundering, because reality isn't as great as was promised