Embarrassed to be an England fan

[NottsClaret]

The issue is a societal problem as a whole. Sunday night was simply symptomatic of it. There is a larger than it should be element to our society that goes around thinking it can do what it wants and who is going to stop me. It slides into every small situation around us. People parking on yellow lines or just generally inconsiderate parking, goons up and down driving 40/50 in 20 zones on residential streets with exhausts that makes their car sound like it is knackered, the people who panic buy, kids bullying small kids on playgrounds and generally causing anti social behaviour in otherwise quiet areas.....I could go on. These things might seem trivial but if you think about it is everywhere in our modern society. Too many with the me, me me behaviour and the "what the f*ck you going to do about it?" attitude.
A disease borne out of being too soft and moving away from traditional values.
It may sound cliched but it is a lot worse than when i was younger. A more lairy feel to society.
Shame is an outdated concept to some people these days. They don't feel it.
We are descending into a free for all. A race to the bottom.

Nah, not sure about that. All my kids's mates are sound, really nice kids. The majority of the next generation are great young people, who don't forget, have just sacrificed some of the best 18 months of their lives for the benefit of older generations. Certainly wouldn't say things are any worse, maybe it's just you're getting older. I wouldn't make sweeping generalisations about society based on one chaotic day at Wembley. You'd see the same violence, drunkeness and law breaking at any third division game in the 80s.

[Targetman]

The issue is a societal problem as a whole. Sunday night was simply symptomatic of it. There is a larger than it should be element to our society that goes around thinking it can do what it wants and who is going to stop me. It slides into every small situation around us. People parking on yellow lines or just generally inconsiderate parking, goons up and down driving 40/50 in 20 zones on residential streets with exhausts that makes their car sound like it is knackered, the people who panic buy, kids bullying small kids on playgrounds and generally causing anti social behaviour in otherwise quiet areas.....I could go on. These things might seem trivial but if you think about it is everywhere in our modern society. Too many with the me, me me behaviour and the "what the f*ck you going to do about it?" attitude.
A disease borne out of being too soft and moving away from traditional values.
It may sound cliched but it is a lot worse than when i was younger. A more lairy feel to society.
Shame is an outdated concept to some people these days. They don't feel it.
We are descending into a free for all. A race to the bottom.

One of the best posts that I have ever read on this message board!

[groove]

I haven't seen one derogatory post towards the England team on social media these last couple of days. Some critical, but certainly not offensive or racist. I'm sure there have been some, I'm not denying that. But I get the feeling the media were waiting with a hard on for the inevitable and people have bought in to it straight away. All this embarrassed to be an England fan business. I think deep down you know that the idiots are a tiny minority and they don't represent England as a whole. As for fans storming into Wembley, people have done that at cup finals for over a hundred years. I remember scousers scaling the wall in 86. What I'm getting at, it seems everyone is enjoying being outraged. Maybe it's down to age. "Eeeeee there was none of this when I was a lad". When really there was, and always has been and it was worse.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I watched on ESPN, the booing was loud and the commentators commented on it........as did i on one of these threads during the game.(Elizabeths)
It's classless & not in the spirit of the occasion. It's a Big stadium with lots of speakers, maybe you were under one of them.
The usual Gammons no doubt.

We will have to agree to disagree. I’m not saying it’s the case. But the games with no or limited crowds had crowd noise pumped in on the tv. As our games last season. Not saying that’s what happened. But I 100% heard no booing live. When I can be bothered I will upload the video I have of the anthems.

[fatboy47]

A handful of emptyheaded yobs and goons farting around on twitter can come in very handy to bury the penalty shambles on Sunday.

Rashford is working hard to market himself as a product..as with Beckham etc...anything that shifts attention from that shambolic minuet cakewalk he performed on Sunday will be a godsend to him.

[Lancasterclaret]

A handful of emptyheaded yobs and goons farting around on twitter can come in very handy to bury the penalty shambles on Sunday.

Rashford is working hard to market himself as a product..as with Beckham etc...anything that shifts attention from that shambolic minuet cakewalk he performed on Sunday will be a godsend to him.

Words fail me

[Jakubclaret]

Oh come on! You can’t be so obtuse as to think the issue with the plane stunt was a matter of wording. It was clear, with a smidge of lateral thought, what the intention and thought process behind it. That was an embarrassment to our club, through association, in the full glare of the media spotlight. Same for the behaviour of a minority of louts on Sunday. If you’re comfortable that those aren’t your views on those matters, congratulations on attaining a basic level of decency.

I would have felt enormous pride had the aeroplane stunt delivered the message that - all lives matter, not white lives matter & not Black Lives Matter, I’m a great believer in equality & fairness & I will oppose anything that compromises them sacred values, that’s the only problem I had with the plane stunt the message wasn’t right.

[martin_p]

I would have felt enormous pride had the aeroplane stunt delivered the message that - all lives matter, not white lives matter & not Black Lives Matter, I’m a great believer in equality & fairness & I will oppose anything that compromises them sacred values, that’s the only problem I had with the plane stunt the message wasn’t right.

Am I the only one that doesn’t see the phrase ‘but white lives don’t’ that some people seem to be able to see on BLM material?

[Jakubclaret]

Am I the only one that doesn’t see the phrase ‘but white lives don’t’ that some people seem to be able to see on BLM material?

If you say - all lives matter, it’s blanket covered & fully inclusive without leaving anybody out, that’s the problem with other messages you are excluding.

[martin_p]

If you say - all lives matter, it’s blanket covered & fully inclusive without leaving anybody out, that’s the problem with other messages you are excluding.

No, you really aren’t. If I were to say ‘I like pizza’ it doesn’t mean I don’t like any other food does it. Just apply some basic logic!

[RMutt]

If you say - all lives matter, it’s blanket covered & fully inclusive without leaving anybody out, that’s the problem with other messages you are excluding.

Except saying, all lives matter, doesn’t really say anything, does? It just helps to maintain the status quo. Sometimes things need a bit more of a kick up the backside to move along. It’s why we have positive discrimination. It gets misunderstood but without it things stay the same for too long. All the changes that we now applaud happened because people made the same sort of stand that we see now. Against similar sorts of naysayers too.

[evensteadiereddie]

A handful of emptyheaded yobs and goons farting around on twitter can come in very handy to bury the penalty shambles on Sunday.

Rashford is working hard to market himself as a product..as with Beckham etc...anything that shifts attention from that shambolic minuet cakewalk he performed on Sunday will be a godsend to him.

Race to the bottom ? **** me, we have a winner !

[milkcrate_mosh]

I would have felt enormous pride had the aeroplane stunt delivered the message that - all lives matter, not white lives matter & not Black Lives Matter, I’m a great believer in equality & fairness & I will oppose anything that compromises them sacred values, that’s the only problem I had with the plane stunt the message wasn’t right.

No issue with the fact it was deliberately and provocatively interrupting an anti-racist gesture then?

Worst moment of supporting burnley in many years for me. I've always loved bringing friends to matches and sharing my enthusiasm for burnley with them. After that display I genuinely had to worry some of my friends wouldn't feel welcome watching my team. Our captain evidently felt the same after the game I recall and our club rightly vowed to ban those responsible for life.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Can you imagine the response if Rashford, Sancho & Saka do a pizza advert next week.

[Tall Paul]

I would have felt enormous pride had the aeroplane stunt delivered the message that - all lives matter, not white lives matter & not Black Lives Matter, I’m a great believer in equality & fairness & I will oppose anything that compromises them sacred values, that’s the only problem I had with the plane stunt the message wasn’t right.

Why have you capitalised "Black Lives Matter"?

[Lancasterclaret]

Best explanation I've found

[Loyalclaret]

I haven't seen one derogatory post towards the England team on social media these last couple of days. Some critical, but certainly not offensive or racist. I'm sure there have been some, I'm not denying that. But I get the feeling the media were waiting with a hard on for the inevitable and people have bought in to it straight away. All this embarrassed to be an England fan business. I think deep down you know that the idiots are a tiny minority and they don't represent England as a whole. As for fans storming into Wembley, people have done that at cup finals for over a hundred years. I remember scousers scaling the wall in 86. What I'm getting at, it seems everyone is enjoying being outraged. Maybe it's down to age. "Eeeeee there was none of this when I was a lad". When really there was, and always has been and it was worse.

You may not seen it because twitter and social media companies have been grafting to delete them. By Monday I heard on the radio twitter had deleted over 1000 racists tweets aimed at the players.

Never heard one person inside or outside the ground mention the colour of the players who missed the penalties but it doesn't surprise me social media went into over drive on it.

[groove]

In fact nobody I know has seen anything either. We'll just have to trust mainstream media on this one. They always report the facts with no hidden agenda don't they?

[JohnMcGreal]

A country that's been drunk on anti-foreigner sentiment for half a decade, egged on by a cynical and law-breaking government.

Is it really any surprise that some of these people feel emboldened to break the law and to voice their appalling views?

Do these so-called 'leaders' think that their words and actions are consequence free?

This isn't a football problem. It's a visible symptom of a country that's in a bad way.

[martin_p]

In fact nobody I know has seen anything either. We'll just have to trust mainstream media on this one. They always report the facts with no hidden agenda don't they?

What’s their ‘hidden agenda’?

[Burnley1989]

You may not seen it because twitter and social media companies have been grafting to delete them. By Monday I heard on the radio twitter had deleted over 1000 racists tweets aimed at the players.

Never heard one person inside or outside the ground mention the colour of the players who missed the penalties but it doesn't surprise me social media went into over drive on it.

I read somewhere that of all the racist tweets sent after the game only 1% came from the UK which was 4 tweets, 47% came from India followed by UAE, Nigeria, Pakistan

I’ll find the post, I’m not sure how reliable it is mind

[BFCmaj]

A handful of emptyheaded yobs and goons farting around on twitter can come in very handy to bury the penalty shambles on Sunday.

Rashford is working hard to market himself as a product..as with Beckham etc...anything that shifts attention from that shambolic minuet cakewalk he performed on Sunday will be a godsend to him.

Was your use of the term "cakewalk" for Rashford intentional?

[Burnley1989]

As I say, with most things posted online who knows how much truth there is in it, it does seem to be a large number of none European accounts though that troll footballers

[Devils_Advocate]

Its not just about players receiving racial abuse but plenty of normal people have received racial abuse on the back of England losing.

The most sickening one I saw which was sent to lots of kids was the one with a points system for what to do to a (N word) on what it termed as 'monday 12th July is punish a (N word) day'

School children were genuinely scared of what might happen to them because of the colour of their skin

[Caballo]

I read somewhere that of all the racist tweets sent after the game only 1% came from the UK which was 4 tweets, 47% came from India followed by UAE, Nigeria, Pakistan

I’ll find the post, I’m not sure how reliable it is mind

All that proves is racists can use VPN.

[ŽižkovClaret]

The all lives matter people are often pretty quiet when it's some poor sod in a dinghy in the Channel, mind..... Funny that

[android]

The pessimism and negativity on here is understandable but overplayed I think.

Southgate has done a fantastic job of uniting the team to play as a team not 11 individuals and the celebration of diversity is there for all to see. The vast, vast majority of the country got behind this and enjoyed it (including the people who do not like the knee gesture bar a few idiots). His limitations as a football coach came out in the final and we blew a great opportunity but that's another matter.

The disgusting racism aimed at the unfortunate penalty takers has been almost universally condemned, as you would expect in this country. Surely it's a tiny number of morons.

Call me over-optimistic if you will but I even believe that one day soon we will live in a country where racist/misogynist pile-ons against female Cabinet ministers of colour will be widely condemned as well.

[Jakubclaret]

No issue with the fact it was deliberately and provocatively interrupting an anti-racist gesture then?

Worst moment of supporting burnley in many years for me. I've always loved bringing friends to matches and sharing my enthusiasm for burnley with them. After that display I genuinely had to worry some of my friends wouldn't feel welcome watching my team. Our captain evidently felt the same after the game I recall and our club rightly vowed to ban those responsible for life.

Well first of all i dispute that they was “interrupting an anti-racist gesture” I’ve long maintained that I think BLM are a racist organisation so I’m not about to change my mind now on that score, perhaps they wanted to gate crash the racist party because in my mind that’s exactly what there would have been doing, regarding the group who organised the plane stunt I don’t have the foggiest what the objectives of the group were & frankly I don’t care I don’t know the people & I have no wish to, but 1 thing I’m certain about is that they wasn’t interrupting something anti racist.