Tunnel Bust Up

[Darnhill Claret]

There are limitations to watching a game live also as you only have one view from where you are sat/stood. I sit in the Bob Lord at the Jimmy Mac end, on line with the 6 yard line. So although I can tell the ref he's got it wrong when I'm 80 yards further away from the action, there are moments in a game where I might want to see again on TV. I'm only 2 rows from the front so it's almost a pitch side view, so close to me, I might get a better than TV picture. However, halfway back in the Longside stand and high in the Jimmy Mac have previously given me a wider perspective. TV can give me several different views of the same game. Live is better for atmosphere but TV can have viewing benefits.

[RVclaret]

There are limitations to watching a game live also as you only have one view from where you are sat/stood. I sit in the Bob Lord at the Jimmy Mac end, on line with the 6 yard line. So although I can tell the ref he's got it wrong when I'm 80 yards further away from the action, there are moments in a game where I might want to see again on TV. I'm only 2 rows from the front so it's almost a pitch side view, so close to me, I might get a better than TV picture. However, halfway back in the Longside stand and high in the Jimmy Mac have previously given me a wider perspective. TV can give me several different views of the same game. Live is better for atmosphere but TV can have viewing benefits.

Yeah, I went to Sheffield United away and I was directly behind the goal. Could barely see what was going on over on the other side of the pitch. Extremely limited. Had to watch the 2nd half back on TV after to have a better understanding.

[2 Bee Holed]

Was there a tunnel bust up?

[pureclaret]

Royboyclaret
I hope this morning your head is not spinning after all those whiskeys, and just becarefull if you pick a bottle of milk up and end up with it being shaken into butter.
I agree about Ash i did think he was past his best and would not add value to the team, and while sometimes he does look a bit slow , his link up play with others is as good as anyone else in the team, his penalty was as good as it can be keeper sent the wrong way. 2 or 3 times he linked up to send balls through for runners and if they had come off could have been a couple more goals.

[Devils_Advocate]

The fact that Kompany kept Barnes on for the duration, despite all of our attacking options, shows how integral he was to our result yesterday.

I very much think Barnes would have come off had we not had the enforced change for Tella leaving us with only one sub left. I also think Barnes would have been the 3rd sub on about 80 mins had we not scored but once we are defending a lead you're never taking Barnes off.

I'd challenge anyone to watch the game back and see how many time it came him to him around the centre of the pitch and he either lost possession, played a forward ball to noone or took a few seconds to get hold of the ball before finally just having to knock it backwards to start again with any forward momentum lost.

I've seen some people say these are the type of games we need Barnes for but I disagree because Barnes just plays them at their own game. For most of season when we've played teams who've pressed us hard and been quite aggressive and physical we've just passed it around at pace and tired them out till they finally open up. With Barnes in the team we don't do that as well and battle and fight hard which in my opinion is playing into the opposition's hands

As well as Barnes I thought also not having one of THB or Better effected us playing out from the back and avoiding the press. Not having Zaroury also made a difference to as Maatsen normally always has an out ball to him under pressure.

We're easily the best team in the division and the stuff I mention isn't gonna matter in the end but I've loved the football we've played this year and in my opinion it isn't as good or effective (in terms of style not results) with Barnes up front.

It is good we can win ugly though as we'll need to do that a lot more next season.

[taio]

I very much think Barnes would have come off had we not had the enforced change for Tella leaving us with only one sub left. I also think Barnes would have been the 3rd sub on about 80 mins had we not scored but once we are defending a lead you're never taking Barnes off.

I'd challenge anyone to watch the game back and see how many time it came him to him around the centre of the pitch and he either lost possession, played a forward ball to noone or took a few seconds to get hold of the ball before finally just having to knock it backwards to start again with any forward momentum lost.

I've seen some people say these are the type of games we need Barnes for but I disagree because Barnes just plays them at their own game. For most of season when we've played teams who've pressed us hard and been quite aggressive and physical we've just passed it around at pace and tired them out till they finally open up. With Barnes in the team we don't do that as well and battle and fight hard which in my opinion is playing into the opposition's hands

As well as Barnes I thought also not having one of THB or Better effected us playing out from the back and avoiding the press. Not having Zaroury also made a difference to as Maatsen normally always has an out ball to him under pressure.

We're easily the best team in the division and the stuff I mention isn't gonna matter in the end but I've loved the football we've played this year and in my opinion it isn't as good or effective (in terms of style not results) with Barnes up front.

It is good we can win ugly though as we'll need to do that a lot more next season.

We can make more than three substitutions

[Devils_Advocate]

We can make more than three substitutions

You can only make substitutions 3 times excluding half time so whilst we could have brought more than one player on we could only make one actual substitution.

VK wasn't in a close game like that gonna make his final changes on 70 mins at nil nil but I think had Tella not gone off Barnes would have been the second sub to go off

[taio]

You can only make substitutions 3 times excluding half time so whilst we could have brought more than one player on we could only make one actual substitution.

VK wasn't in a close game like that gonna make his final changes on 70 mins at nil nil but I think had Tella not gone off Barnes would have been the second sub to go off

Yes, VK could have easily made more substitutions if he'd wanted to

[Devils_Advocate]

Yes, VK could have easily made more substitutions if he'd wanted to

But you accept he could make one more physical substitution once Tella went off which was my point?

[JimmyRobbo]

The whole of the Luton team did today to be fair. Apart from scoring the penalty he was completely ineffective and was probably our worst player on the pitch today

Utter rubbish. Some of your stuff is sensible but this is just silly nonsense. You've obviously never played football if you only take note of where the ball is.

[taio]

But you accept he could make one more physical substitution once Tella went off which was my point?

No.

[FCBurnley]

FCBurnley, you missed saying you also watched a lot of away games. If you do get back for a game, I’ve ticket next to me, for you anytime.

Thanks bfc. Really appreciate the offer. Didn’t miss any away games for many years. Great times home and away

[Vincent'sCap]

No.

brilliant

[FCBurnley]

FC Burnley, Did you play for the same cricket team as Lotty1 ?

Yes. Ray was a good friend

[FCBurnley]

I was there 55-62

Did 1 year at old school then left in 62 ( I think)

[mdd2]

The new BGS opened in 1959 so in 61-62 you would be in third year
I may even have been your form prefect

[mdd2]

I am intrigued by what RobRoy drinks as it cannot be Scotch
Is it Irish Welsh or Bourbon?

[ClaretInLeeds]

I’d argue you see more detail when watching on TV.

You can argue all you like, you’re wrong.

[Devils_Advocate]

No.

Well you're wrong because had we made a substitution on 70 mins then we could not have made another substitution later in the game

[taio]

Well you're wrong because had we made a substitution on 70 mins then we could not have made another substitution later in the game

You're wrong. We could've made more than one substitution.

[FCBurnley]

The new BGS opened in 1959 so in 61-62 you would be in third year
I may even have been your form prefect

I was only there for 4 years 58-62 so if you started in 55 prob not.

[roperclaret]

You can argue all you like, you’re wrong.

No I’m not. I can think of several occasions where watching live I was convinced that something had happened one way only to realise watching back on TV I was wrong.

[Devils_Advocate]

You're wrong. We could've made more than one substitution.

I know you know what my point was and you are deliberately arguing something different.

If VK made one or more substitutions on 70 mins then he could not have made a substitution later in the game.

My point was in a close game at nil nil he wasn't gonna leave himself unable to make another change that early in the game which is what would have happened had Barnes gone off on 70 mins

If you disagree with this then you are wrong and if you are trying to be clever about the fact that in his last substitution opportunity he could take more than one player off then if that's the way you want to spend your Sunday then you must be at a loose end today cos you know that's not what I was saying.

[NRC]

This thread is nuts. Lots of not so subtle undertones
- if you’re not from Burnley you can’t be a real fan
- Barnes is passionate about Burnley, because he’d fight for us in the tunnel, so can’t be criticized (ignore the earlier hounding him out of the club threads)
- You can’t have an opinion if you’re not on the game. Triple whammy if you’re not from Burnley, don’t live there, and don’t go to games. That you’re possibly 100 meters away from the action, where the focal point has a diameter of about 23cm is irrelevant
- Barnes’ passion means his technical prowess is beyond reproach
- Barnes’ passion and and a poor technical game are mutually exclusive

…. and we still don’t know anything about the purported tunnel bust-up

[taio]

I know you know what my point was and you are deliberately arguing something different.

If VK made one or more substitutions on 70 mins then he could not have made a substitution later in the game.

My point was in a close game at nil nil he wasn't gonna leave himself unable to make another change that early in the game which is what would have happened had Barnes gone off on 70 mins

If you disagree with this then you are wrong and if you are trying to be clever about the fact that in his last substitution opportunity he could take more than one player off then if that's the way you want to spend your Sunday then you must be at a loose end today cos you know that's not what I was saying.

I'm not trying to be clever. You said these things which are plain wrong:

I very much think Barnes would have come off had we not had the enforced change for Tella leaving us with only one sub left

he could make one more physical substitution once Tella went off 

I think you also need to look at how VK has used substitutions in other games.

[Vincent'sCap]

I know you know what my point was and you are deliberately arguing something different.

If VK made one or more substitutions on 70 mins then he could not have made a substitution later in the game.

My point was in a close game at nil nil he wasn't gonna leave himself unable to make another change that early in the game which is what would have happened had Barnes gone off on 70 mins

If you disagree with this then you are wrong and if you are trying to be clever about the fact that in his last substitution opportunity he could take more than one player off then if that's the way you want to spend your Sunday then you must be at a loose end today cos you know that's not what I was saying.

Rattled

[FCBurnley]

This thread is nuts. Lots of not so subtle undertones
- if you’re not from Burnley you can’t be a real fan
- Barnes is passionate about Burnley, because he’d fight for us in the tunnel, so can’t be criticized (ignore the earlier hounding him out of the club threads)
- You can’t have an opinion if you’re not on the game. Triple whammy if you’re not from Burnley, don’t live there, and don’t go to games. That you’re possibly 100 meters away from the action, where the focal point has a diameter of about 23cm is irrelevant
- Barnes’ passion means his technical prowess is beyond reproach
- Barnes’ passion and and a poor technical game are mutually exclusive

…. and we still don’t know anything about the purported tunnel bust-up

And Leeds are still deep in the brown stuff

[CoolClaret]

This thread is nuts. Lots of not so subtle undertones
- if you’re not from Burnley you can’t be a real fan
- Barnes is passionate about Burnley, because he’d fight for us in the tunnel, so can’t be criticized (ignore the earlier hounding him out of the club threads)
- You can’t have an opinion if you’re not on the game. Triple whammy if you’re not from Burnley, don’t live there, and don’t go to games. That you’re possibly 100 meters away from the action, where the focal point has a diameter of about 23cm is irrelevant
- Barnes’ passion means his technical prowess is beyond reproach
- Barnes’ passion and and a poor technical game are mutually exclusive

…. and we still don’t know anything about the purported tunnel bust-up

Peak UTC

[Devils_Advocate]

I'm not trying to be clever. You said these things which are plain wrong:

I very much think Barnes would have come off had we not had the enforced change for Tella leaving us with only one sub left

he could make one more physical substitution once Tella went off 

I think you also need to look at how VK has used substitutions in other games.

I was quite clear with what I meant when I replied to you

"Well you're wrong because had we made a substitution on 70 mins then we could not have made another substitution later in the game"

If you can show me another game where we had used all our substitution opportunities (that's how it's termed in the rules) by 70 mins (by choice not due to injury) when we are not behind then I'll accept your point but I don't think VK has done this before.

[AfloatinClaret]

...missed saying you also watched a lot of away games...

Those are a lot more fun nowadays! During most of the 1980s and into the early nineties I only ever watched Burnley playing away games and from 1984 my Mrs would come along to four or five games a season too (like now, beginning and end of the season matches, none of those cold days/nights in between) it was in I think 1991, but perhaps 92 as we were driving home from a 3-1 win at Scunthorpe when she casually mentioned: "You do realise that's the first time I've ever seen Burnley win." To be honest, I don't recall seeing that many myself.

[ClaretInLeeds]

No I’m not. I can think of several occasions where watching live I was convinced that something had happened one way only to realise watching back on TV I was wrong.

You’re confusing having replays with watching live. You see much more of an individual’s performance at the ground than you do on TV.

If you want to justify not attending, that’s fine.

[roperclaret]

You’re confusing having replays with watching live. You see much more of an individual’s performance at the ground than you do on TV.

If you want to justify not attending, that’s fine.

That’s why I said you see more ‘detail’ on TV. And how is that justifying not attending? It is possible to sometimes go on and sometimes not. Not everyone lives an hour away from the Turf you know.

[NRC]

You see much more of an individual’s performance at the ground than you do on TV.

How so?

[Claret Till I Die]

How so?

I'm with CiL with this one. The overall movement off the ball is obviously more visible when watching live for one as tv coverage tends to follow the ball a lot

[Lancasterclaret]

In between all the drunk people and the blatant willy waving, does anyone actually know what happened in the tunnel yesterday involving Barnes?

[NRC]

Except, at the ground, unless you’re specifically there to do a player watch you’ll be following the ball too. Secondly I suspect that most TV live action will include roughly one third of the pitch in its capture. If you’re not in that third you’re really not affecting play, and you get the benefit of seeing key plays close up. Thirdly, and as I previously said higher up the thread, depending on where you sit you could be 100 meters from the action where distance and perspective makes the ball and a player that much smaller than they already are…

I would challenge “obviously more visible,” so IMO the question still stands…. How so?

[Nori1958]

I'm with CiL with this one. The overall movement off the ball is obviously more visible when watching live for one as tv coverage tends to follow the ball a lot

Which is why managers, scouts etc go and watch games live and not on TV

[NRC]

Which is why managers, scouts etc go and watch games live and not on TV

That’s not the debate, though, Nori…. D_A has an opinion that Barnes was off yesterday, which was not a comment on his commitment and passion, or even his ability to be a pain in the neck to Luton’s CB pairing, but more about it becoming obvious that, technically, he slows our play down as compared to JayRod. It’s a point of view. I doubt very much those of us on the ground or watching on TV did so to specifically do a player watch on Barnes, so that scouts and managers attend live games to watch a player isn’t disputed, but equally is not relevant to the point here in that Barnes slows down our play (according to D_A).

Some are saying you can see that from the TV; others are saying you can’t make that judgement because you’re not seeing it live

[KRBFC]

Presumably you weren’t at Luton yesterday and are therefore judging him off the limited TV coverage?

more like limited coverage at the stadium.

[FCBurnley]

Live Tv coverage I watched was excellent.

[Nori1958]

That’s not the debate, though, Nori…. D_A has an opinion that Barnes was off yesterday, which was not a comment on his commitment and passion, or even his ability to be a pain in the neck to Luton’s CB pairing, but more about it becoming obvious that, technically, he slows our play down as compared to JayRod. It’s a point of view. I doubt very much those of us on the ground or watching on TV did so to specifically do a player watch on Barnes, so that scouts and managers attend live games to watch a player isn’t disputed, but equally is not relevant to the point here in that Barnes slows down our play (according to D_A).

Some are saying you can see that from the TV; others are saying you can’t make that judgement because you’re not seeing it live

I never said it was the debate, I was replying to a specific post

They go and watch it live because you see more, whatever it is you're looking for

[Bfc]

AfloatinClaret, myself and FCBurnley were going to away matches from the early 60s. We would leave on a Viscount Central coach from Burnley bus station at 6-30am, for London matches and got back there at midnight. Then there was only a partial M6 open and possibly a section of the M1. Not long after the younger Claretpope and Redwasp started going away. The 60/70s were good for away victories. Sadly from the 80s, it was mostly downhill and depressing coming back from losing GameStop lowly teams. Those were defeats against teams our 60s Reserves would have thrashed.

[ClaretInLeeds]

Easy to weed out those fans who don’t attend games - it’s coupled with their limited knowledge of football.

[RVclaret]

Easy to weed out those fans who don’t attend games - it’s coupled with their limited knowledge of football.

Oooooo look at me i attend games. Super fan.

[FCBurnley]

Easy to weed out those fans who don’t attend games - it’s coupled with their limited knowledge of football.

And even easier to weed out those who live in Leeds

[Rileybobs]

I don’t really get this about Barnes slowing the play up yesterday. For the first 60 minutes or so he offered the defence pretty much their only outlet, and upon receiving the ball found himself quite isolated due to our inability or lacks of desire to get bodies forward. Couple that with a very poor pitch and some rubbish passes into him and it’s no surprise that a lot of the ball didn’t stick. But, as with the misleading stat regarding aerial duels won, you can’t underestimate how much he disrupted play and allowed us to win the second balls and ultimately gain territory in the second half.

I do agree that when we’re on the front foot we generally look more slick and polished with Jay, but I fancy we’d have drawn yesterday’s game at best with him instead of Barnes, because we needed a physical outlet to relieve what was quite sustained pressure in the first half. It’s why Kompany didn’t take him off and I don’t think he would have done regardless of Tella’s injury.

[CoolClaret]

I do agree with a lot of what’s been said re: not attending games.

There’s plenty of folks that watch highlights, look at stats and use that to make claims about players/tactics et Al.

There’s nothing like live, you can really get a feel of it, you can see them in warmups how sharp they’re looking, who’s got an edge to them etc.

I remember Zaroury’s first cameo and I was sat in the Jimmy Mac upper in the corner towards the long side (great view btw), so right over Zaroury on the left wing and I said to my mates this kid looks good.

Just the way he took the ball and made himself an extra yard infront of the opposition fullback - I could just tell…. Doubt a tv viewer would’ve gotten the same feel/experience/insight


Oh and as for the tunnel bust up - it will forever remain a mystery

[Nori1958]

Yeah, it’s in my username. There’s a reason you’re already on my “foe” list, and it’s because you’re inherently thick.

Bit like putting somebody on your foe list, but still reading their posts

[Nori1958]

He quoted me and it came up as a notification.

Must be difficult, using technology at your age.

[SalouClaret]

I've just read the whole thread and I've come to the grand conclusion that you're all a bunch of goons.

UTC!