FAB

[Big Vinny K]

Good stuff.

Would love to know if anyone on here has ever placed a bet with dafabet, lovebet, spreadex, W88 or 96.com?

I know I certainly haven’t and I like the occasional flutter.

You really think the debate is that linear ?

I guess you probably do because you seem to have zero idea of the growth in gambling addiction and in particular from online betting. Even though there is extensive research and evidence as to the correlation between increased advertising for online betting and gambling addiction you are reducing the debate to asking whether anyone on this forum has ever placed a bet with the companies that have sponsored our shirts ?

If we and other clubs started to be sponsored on our shirts by Mexican drug dealers would you say that was ok because you don’t know of anyone who started taking crack cocaine because it was advertised on a football shirt ?

Why do you think tobacco advertising was banned ? Do you not believe the facts that less people became addicted to tobacco (and less people have died) as a result ? Or is the same argument that nobody started smoking because they saw a formula one car with Benson & Hedges plastered all over it ?

[NewClaret]

You really think the debate is that linear ?

I guess you probably do because you seem to have zero idea of the growth in gambling addiction and in particular from online betting. Even though there is extensive research and evidence as to the correlation between increased advertising for online betting and gambling addiction you are reducing the debate to asking whether anyone on this forum has ever placed a bet with the companies that have sponsored our shirts ?

If we and other clubs started to be sponsored on our shirts by Mexican drug dealers would you say that was ok because you don’t know of anyone who started taking crack cocaine because it was advertised on a football shirt ?

Why do you think tobacco advertising was banned ? Do you not believe the facts that less people became addicted to tobacco (and less people have died) as a result ? Or is the same argument that nobody started smoking because they saw a formula one car with Benson & Hedges plastered all over it ?

Is there any research that specifically shows that football shirt sponsorship entices people to bet or has had any significant impact on gambling addiction? I acknowledged in my original post that other form of gambling promotions probably do and therefore until they’re banned I don’t see the point in banning shirt sponsorship.

To be honest, I didn’t agree with tobacco advertising being banned back in the day either. My mum smokes and will die from it eventually but it won’t be silk cuts fault for manufacturing them or probably advertising them when it was legal - it’ll be hers.

Ditto alcohol, but I do drink. Interestingly the beers and alcohol I drink are not Carsberg and Bud and the other big brands you once saw advertised. I drink craft ales and wine from vineyards I’ve usually never heard of before buying. Advertising makes no difference.

Nor do I see gambling companies any worse than McDonalds, the local kebab shop, the corner shop selling sweets and vapes to kids, Hollands pies raising the collateral of thousands of middle aged men, or car manufacturers polluting the planet. I could go on forever. They’re all doing something bad somewhere along the lines.

It’s about personal responsibility for me. Taking account for my own actions.

As for the point about Mexican drugs cartels, quite obviously that’s an illegal activity and gambling is legal and some would say engrained in our culture.

[Leisure]

Is there any research that specifically shows that football shirt sponsorship entices people to bet or has had any significant impact on gambling addiction? I acknowledged in my original post that other form of gambling promotions probably do and therefore until they’re banned I don’t see the point in banning shirt sponsorship.

To be honest, I didn’t agree with tobacco advertising being banned back in the day either. My mum smokes and will die from it eventually but it won’t be silk cuts fault for manufacturing them or probably advertising them when it was legal - it’ll be hers.

Ditto alcohol, but I do drink. Interestingly the beers and alcohol I drink are not Carsberg and Bud and the other big brands you once saw advertised. I drink craft ales and wine from vineyards I’ve usually never heard of before buying. Advertising makes no difference.

Nor do I see gambling companies any worse than McDonalds, the local kebab shop, the corner shop selling sweets and vapes to kids, Hollands pies raising the collateral of thousands of middle aged men, or car manufacturers polluting the planet. I could go on forever. They’re all doing something bad somewhere along the lines.

It’s about personal responsibility for me. Taking account for my own actions.

As for the point about Mexican drugs cartels, quite obviously that’s an illegal activity and gambling is legal and some would say engrained in our culture.

If it doesn't entice people to bet, then why would betting companies spend millions on shirt sponsorship??

[NewClaret]

If it doesn't entice people to bet, then why would betting companies spend millions on shirt sponsorship??

It’s a good question and to be honest I find it impossible to believe that the £7-£10m allegedly spent on these contracts is ever recovered in net bets never mind profit. Even more so in the Championship.

Let’s say the average bet is a tenner, can anyone really see one million bets being placed because someone saw a logo on a Burnley shirt?

[Leisure]

It’s a good question and to be honest I find it impossible to believe that the £7-£10m allegedly spent on these contracts is ever recovered in net bets never mind profit. Even more so in the Championship.

Let’s say the average bet is a tenner, can anyone really see one million bets being placed because someone saw a logo on a Burnley shirt?

So then you're basically saying that betting companies don't know what they're doing and are just wasting money! I don't think so!

[jrgbfc]

The same betting companies that ban people if they think they're winning too much money?
If they're blowing millions of pounds on sponsoring football shirts i think its safe to say they've worked out its in their best financial interest.

[NewClaret]

So then you're basically saying that betting companies don't know what they're doing and are just wasting money! I don't think so!

Really, I’m saying I don’t actually believe they’re legitimate gambling companies. Look at Bet365, SkyBet, PP, William Hill, Ladbrokes, etc. They literally employ 1000’s of people in huge HQ’s. I don’t think anyone’s been able to chase any of these down to so much as a shell company and services office.

Does anyone actually ever even research some of the stuff that goes on shirts? I have never looked up what TeamViewer, snapdragon, or DXC or whatever is on Uniteds kits. I very much doubt anyone does Burnley?

Can you seriously believe millions of pounds get gambled because Burnley wear a logo on a kit? I can’t.

But I do go back to my point that it’s about personal accountability if anyone does decide to gamble.

[Big Vinny K]

Is there any research that specifically shows that football shirt sponsorship entices people to bet or has had any significant impact on gambling addiction? I acknowledged in my original post that other form of gambling promotions probably do and therefore until they’re banned I don’t see the point in banning shirt sponsorship.

To be honest, I didn’t agree with tobacco advertising being banned back in the day either. My mum smokes and will die from it eventually but it won’t be silk cuts fault for manufacturing them or probably advertising them when it was legal - it’ll be hers.

Ditto alcohol, but I do drink. Interestingly the beers and alcohol I drink are not Carsberg and Bud and the other big brands you once saw advertised. I drink craft ales and wine from vineyards I’ve usually never heard of before buying. Advertising makes no difference.

Nor do I see gambling companies any worse than McDonalds, the local kebab shop, the corner shop selling sweets and vapes to kids, Hollands pies raising the collateral of thousands of middle aged men, or car manufacturers polluting the planet. I could go on forever. They’re all doing something bad somewhere along the lines.

It’s about personal responsibility for me. Taking account for my own actions.

As for the point about Mexican drugs cartels, quite obviously that’s an illegal activity and gambling is legal and some would say engrained in our culture.

Tbh I should have just left it after my first post and not got into this.
It’s hard to not respond to somebody who posts so much rubbish and who knows and understands so little about the subject he’s posting on. You seem to be even struggling with the concept how advertising works. That is the strange thing about the internet - you end up debating with people who if you met in person you would just know to walk away laughing from after hearing a few words of their “wisdom”

But I should have more discipline and just try harder not to respond and get sucked into these debates.

[NewClaret]

Tbh I should have just left it after my first post and not got into this.
It’s hard to not respond to somebody who posts so much rubbish and who knows and understands so little about the subject he’s posting on. You seem to be even struggling with the concept how advertising works. That is the strange thing about the internet - you end up debating with people who if you met in person you would just know to walk away laughing from after hearing a few words of their “wisdom”

But I should have more discipline and just try harder not to respond and get sucked into these debates.

Okay mate. I don’t mind if you reply or not, agree or not. It’s a message board and therefore the type of place you read and discuss a variety of opinions.

There’s a foe feature and more than happy for you to pop me on it to save you needing the self discipline to respond.

[jdrobbo]

What I find utterly brilliant is that whether you don’t give a hoot about gambling endorsements or whether you’re very concerned about them, at least far more of you are around the table debating it these days. Back in 2017/18, when I first started banging the drum on here and on Twitter, I was often a lone voice. Change is coming. Keep on talking about it in the meantime.

[Rick_Muller]

Does anyone actually ever even research some of the stuff that goes on shirts? I have never looked up what TeamViewer, snapdragon, or DXC or whatever is on Uniteds kits. I very much doubt anyone does Burnley?

We ditched TeamViewer for another product based on who they sponsored

[johnalexander]

Sports sponsorship is tax deductible for Ltd and PLC businesses. A double win for the company. 1. Their taxable liability on trading profit is reduced, so, in effect each £1 given directly reduces taxable liability, meaning it costs them nothing. 2. The good will generated in board rooms, charities and good causes spreads from these people into general population (these are good guys with community at heart). I don't bet or smoke, betting doesn't interest me and I gave up smoking many years ago.However, when charity leaders and business owners say these monies from betting firms will help develop local youth and solve social problems it gives the business sponsor a warm glow, and has not cost them anything. A win win for all concerned, even if not a fag is smoked or a bet laid

[Boss Hogg]

I’d prefer to have non gambling ( but more so kids can wear the same shirts) but agree with some of New Clarets points. You can’t just ban everything to protect the minority. Millions of people can walk past discounted spirit offers without it making them become raging alcoholics. Should supermarkets not advertise their goods because a few can’t control themselves. We are in a society where things are made out to be someone else’s fault instead of looking closer to home. I also agree with the point above that what someone does via their business does not have to reflect their personal beliefs.

[CoolClaret]

*NewClaret's content*

Just for the record NC, have you ever placed a bet? More over, have you ever placed a bet after hearing 'favourable odds' either in person or online?

[Incom]

We ditched TeamViewer for another product based on who they sponsored

We ditched Teamviewer at work for exactly the same reason!

[Foshiznik]

Back to the topic, i am very appreciative of the one member of FAB (could well be the kind poster on here who has answered some questions) who posts on Twitter/X with a similar minutes/Q&A letting fans know what was discussed and communicating the club's message in response.

That being said, if the club really, truly cared for the fans views, why did they go to Jordan North in the first instance with regards to the drum? Surely this sort of thing is exactly why you have a FAB?

[Row x]

Back to the topic, i am very appreciative of the one member of FAB (could well be the kind poster on here who has answered some questions) who posts on Twitter/X with a similar minutes/Q&A letting fans know what was discussed and communicating the club's message in response.

That being said, if the club really, truly cared for the fans views, why did they go to Jordan North in the first instance with regards to the drum? Surely this sort of thing is exactly why you have a FAB?

For effect on the TV

[CoolClaret]

I’d prefer to have non gambling ( but more so kids can wear the same shirts) but agree with some of New Clarets points. You can’t just ban everything to protect the minority. Millions of people can walk past discounted spirit offers without it making them become raging alcoholics. Should supermarkets not advertise their goods because a few can’t control themselves. We are in a society where things are made out to be someone else’s fault instead of looking closer to home. I also agree with the point above that what someone does via their business does not have to reflect their personal beliefs.

It's frustrating to read comments that, no offence, are just steeped in ignorance without care actually to learn how addict behaviour works.

It's not quite as simple as 'banning everything to protect a minority'. The issue with betting advertising in football is far more nuanced. It's not about completely prohibiting betting, but rather about limiting the pervasive advertising of an activity that can have negative societal impacts, especially when closely tied to an extremely popular sport, that is a cornerstone of English (British) life.

'Discounted spirit offers' differ greatly from aggressive advertising and it is disingenuous to suggest that it's similar to this particular topic.

Willpower isn't a simple on/off switch; it's more like a meter that can be strained by constant exposure to temptation.

Imagine an alcoholic in recovery living with non-alcoholic housemates. It's Friday evening, and they've just returned from work. Upon opening the fridge, they're confronted with an abundance of alcohol left by their roommates.
The recovering alcoholic won't immediately grab a bottle and start drinking. However, the mere presence of alcohol initiates an internal struggle, often subconscious. Their mind becomes preoccupied with the temptation, especially alone in the house.

The likelihood of resisting this temptation largely depends on where they are in their recovery journey. For many, particularly those in early recovery, this constant exposure to alcohol in their own home could eventually lead to a relapse and can even end up consuming all the available alcohol in the vicinity.

This is similar to why drug rehab centers remove addicts from environments where drugs are easily accessible. By eliminating constant exposure and temptation, they create a space for recovery and building stronger coping mechanisms.

Similarly, persistent betting ads create an environment of continuous temptation, potentially wearing down an individual's resolve over time... all this is made even worse in our new digital age, where you get targeted ads based on your browsing history/browser searches which is why I strongly recommend using a VPN, a privacy-focused broswer (brave, vivaldi) and email for any personal matters.

[Plissken]

The likelihood of resisting this temptation largely depends on where they are in their recovery journey. For many, particularly those in early recovery, this constant exposure to alcohol in their own home could eventually lead to a relapse and can even end up consuming all the available alcohol in the vicinity.

This is similar to why drug rehab centers remove addicts from environments where drugs are easily accessible. By eliminating constant exposure and temptation, they create a space for recovery and building stronger coping mechanisms.

To back this up, it was proven that exposure to cigarette advertising successfully managed to make 76% of all ex-smokers more likely to start sparking up again in some form. The body's dependency on nicotine is short term compared to the mind's dependency on the hit, and that is what the advertising was for.

Compared gambling addiction to alcohol addiction is a false equivalence. You can't get an alcoholic drink sitting on a bus, on the factory floor or at a work desk. You can, however, spend 10s, 100s, or 1000s in those places in seconds on a variety of bets.

[Boss Hogg]

It's frustrating to read comments that, no offence, are just steeped in ignorance without care actually to learn how addict behaviour works.

It's not quite as simple as 'banning everything to protect a minority'. The issue with betting advertising in football is far more nuanced. It's not about completely prohibiting betting, but rather about limiting the pervasive advertising of an activity that can have negative societal impacts, especially when closely tied to an extremely popular sport, that is a cornerstone of English (British) life.

'Discounted spirit offers' differ greatly from aggressive advertising and it is disingenuous to suggest that it's similar to this particular topic.

Willpower isn't a simple on/off switch; it's more like a meter that can be strained by constant exposure to temptation.

Imagine an alcoholic in recovery living with non-alcoholic housemates. It's Friday evening, and they've just returned from work. Upon opening the fridge, they're confronted with an abundance of alcohol left by their roommates.
The recovering alcoholic won't immediately grab a bottle and start drinking. However, the mere presence of alcohol initiates an internal struggle, often subconscious. Their mind becomes preoccupied with the temptation, especially alone in the house.

The likelihood of resisting this temptation largely depends on where they are in their recovery journey. For many, particularly those in early recovery, this constant exposure to alcohol in their own home could eventually lead to a relapse and can even end up consuming all the available alcohol in the vicinity.

This is similar to why drug rehab centers remove addicts from environments where drugs are easily accessible. By eliminating constant exposure and temptation, they create a space for recovery and building stronger coping mechanisms.

Similarly, persistent betting ads create an environment of continuous temptation, potentially wearing down an individual's resolve over time... all this is made even worse in our new digital age, where you get targeted ads based on your browsing history/browser searches which is why I strongly recommend using a VPN, a privacy-focused broswer (brave, vivaldi) and email for any personal matters.

With respect, and whilst I agree with most of your football posts, I don’t agree with a lot of the above. I’m certainly not ‘ignorant’ of the issues but have a different stance on this. I do agree with you about targeted online adverts based on browsing history.

[Plissken]

Edit timed out, but an important point is that the advertising isn't necessarily aimed at getting new people to gamble. It's largely aimed at existing gamblers. The half-time score or first scorer bets are aimed at getting an extra couple of quid out of someone who has already put something on the full time result.

Smoking advertising was the same, it was about getting smokers to switch. Getting new people in was a bonus, but the best way of doing that was hooking them for free. Attractive people walking around pubs handing out free packs for a start. Or in the modern context, download our app and place a fiver worth of bets to get 25 quid free, and we will pay out at 90 minutes even if the result changes. Once that dam is broken, the app is there on the phone and sending adverts to their screen 24/7.

[CoolClaret]

To back this up, it was proven that exposure to cigarette advertising successfully managed to make 76% of all ex-smokers more likely to start sparking up again in some form. The body's dependency on nicotine is short term compared to the mind's dependency on the hit, and that is what the advertising was for.

Compared gambling addiction to alcohol addiction is a false equivalence. You can't get an alcoholic drink sitting on a bus, on the factory floor or at a work desk. You can, however, spend 10s, 100s, or 1000s in those places in seconds on a variety of bets.

For sure - I was trying to show how the mechanisms behind addiction work to make it more relatable.

[daveisaclaret]

Bit rocked at the allegation I've see today that Bournemouth's chosen online gambling sponsor for this season offers odds on cockfights. Wonder how that would go down with the people who say they want the money regardless.

[NewClaret]

Just for the record NC, have you ever placed a bet? More over, have you ever placed a bet after hearing 'favourable odds' either in person or online?

Yes I have placed a bet. I enjoy the occasional flutter although it is very occasional.

I’ve never placed a bet hearing favourable odds in my life (bar on UTC - see below) and I would point out that was part of my point that nobody seems to have picked up on or been prepared to debate sensibly:

Until TV and internet advertising of gambling (and their promotions - free bets, smashing odds, etc) is outlawed, there’s little point banning shirt sponsorship because I just do not believe it drives the same level of gambling/gambling addiction. It like going on holiday and locking your back door but leaving your front door wide open and the car running on the drive. You’re still going to get robbed.

Honest analysis of when I do bet, or have in the past (fyi):

* Lottery when the Euromillions is £100m+. For some reason, £99m isn’t appealing to me

* Grand National every year and oddly enough I seem to pick good uns, always each way. My betting app has about £100 in it and it dwindles throughout the year and then I tend to do okay on the National and it tops up.

* I used to bet on matchdays in the booths. Only really in the latter Dyche years though. I’d have a pint and look at the odds on the wall before the game. If I saw a good one: “Mee or Tarks to score first, Burnley to win 1-0” @ 8/1 or something I might’ve had a fiver on it. Justification in my own mind being that the games were pretty predictable and I enjoyed the turgid/goal-lite games slightly more as a result, so it was better value than having another pint!! Haven’t done that in recent years as the booths are gone, which I am assuming is because the club have decided to stop in-stadium betting? Or it’s now illegal? Either way, not sure I’d have used that under VK where the scores could be anything. I’d like to see the betting booths turned in to bottle bars or something to reduce congestion btw.

* When I get given a tip on here - although that’s rare both in frequency on here and even rarer I act on them - or there’s a claret-named horse racing I might have a tiny wager. Which is ironic in some ways that betting advertising is allowed on this board but also widely derided if the club are involved in the same.

So there you have it. What I can promise you is that I have personally never even so much as googled any Burnley betting sponsors name, never mind created an account or laid a bet. And certainly never from teams I don’t support.

[jos]

Thanks for posting CP,

Apologies if this has already been raised but it would seem from the Season Ticket thread that the club has more than one database repository containing all our addresses, and clearly there isn’t a policy or process that leads them to use just one and keep it current.

Spending some effort on solving this issue would save time and money and alleviate some stress amongst their employees and customers when trying to correct errors.

UTC.

[CoolClaret]

*NC's content*

So, you've admitted that you have indeed had flutters and had flutters after hearing tips and odds, correct?...

This suggests that even you, who I believe from your comment is pretty strong-willed about this sort of thing, can be influenced by advertising to place a bet?

Then it's not farfetched to suggest that if you can, then how do you think it will affect someone else who is weaker-willed or an addict?

It's different than sitting down and thinking 'right, I fancy a bet today', it's more being drilled by advertising/promotion and effectively succumbing to them.

Of course, it is easy to say, 'Well, until it all goes out of sport there's no point in BFC NOT having a betting sponsorship, especially if it's to our financial betterment', but how about being trailblazers and taking the lead on something for once?

The club could even be viewed more positively by neutrals or other potential commercial partners for not wanting to be associated with betting firms?...

That's how positive change is made, it's about making a decision, sticking to your guns, leading the way and imploring others to do the same.

I know it's not that simple but let's not kid ourselves here, betting (at least in it's current form) destroys lives and is a net negative to the Nation.

https://www.russellwebster.com/the-econ ... 2Destimate.

[claret222]

No one believes in advertising, until they lose their cat.

[RMutt]

Parker!
Yes m’lady?
Last night was FAB!
Yes m’lady.