Pires

[Rileybobs]

I can’t really recall seeing much scapegoating of Pires on here this season. I don’t think he’s been singled out or particularly faced a lot of criticism. He’s had plenty of decent games this season and I’ve never been particularly concerned to see him in the lineup, in fact early days he would have been my number one choice at left back.

But bumping this thread as a ‘told you so’ as if he had a good game last night is just weird. I can’t actually believe anyone who watched can think he had a good game - he was actually dreadful in the first half. He looked better when the team was more assured and cruising in the latter stages but he obviously would. Also nice weighted first time pass into Anthony for Roberts goal, sure, but let’s not pretend it was a moment of genius.

[Goliath]

I can’t really recall seeing much scapegoating of Pires on here this season. I don’t think he’s been singled out or particularly faced a lot of criticism. He’s had plenty of decent games this season and I’ve never been particularly concerned to see him in the lineup, in fact early days he would have been my number one choice at left back.

But bumping this thread as a ‘told you so’ as if he had a good game last night is just weird. I can’t actually believe anyone who watched can think he had a good game - he was actually dreadful in the first half. He looked better when the team was more assured and cruising in the latter stages but he obviously would. Also nice weighted first time pass into Anthony for Roberts goal, sure, but let’s not pretend it was a moment of genius.

As I said (which you've ignored) it's not about being a told you so, it's about backing a player that takes a lot of unfair criticism (read this thread for evidence).

Also it's very typical of football fans in general to play down actions from players they don't like compared to if it was a player they do. Nobody said it was a moment of genius, it was just a very good bit of play technically and the goal doesn't happen without a)the speed of thought or b)the execution.
Just because it wasn't massively eye catching doesn't reduce its importance, same for his run for the 4th goal.

[Rileybobs]

As I said (which you've ignored) it's not about being a told you so, it's about backing a player that takes a lot of unfair criticism (read this thread for evidence).

Also it's very typical of football fans in general to play down actions from players they don't like compared to if it was a player they do. Nobody said it was a moment of genius, it was just a very good bit of play technically and the goal doesn't happen without a)the speed of thought or b)the execution.
Just because it wasn't massively eye catching doesn't reduce its importance, same for his run for the 4th goal.

As I said, (which you’ve ignored) I don’t not like Pires. He just had a bad game last night.

[quoonbeatz]

Pires wasn’t very good last night, bar that very nice touch for the goal. He’s a frustrating player because he’s clearly got the ability to play a good forward ball but he checks back and comes inside or backwards more than a right footed left back would. That Humphreys, naturally a centre half, is a better fullback than him by a distance, is pretty telling.

[willsclarets]

Sorry but this is nonsense. Maatsen was so many levels above Pires going forward it’s not funny. No comparison.

As much as I don't think Pires is awful, if maatsen was in this side I think we'd be sat in 2nd and much closer to Leeds. He's that good at this level, and would've been the difference in at least 1 or 2 scoreless draws.

[SouthamptonClaret]

Imagine criticising one of our defenders this season.

[HahaYeah]

Pires made a great run to drag two players away from Bensons rocket.

[NewClaret]

Heard Humphreys is out for a while so time to get behind Pires one way or the other.

[123EasyasBFC]

Goliath not doing the ‘I told you so’ thing today regarding Pires?

Absolute liability along with Sonne, we will struggle with Pires being our only left back, Delcroix would actually be better

[whiffa]

Goliath not doing the ‘I told you so’ thing today regarding Pires?

Absolute liability along with Sonne, we will struggle with Pires being our only left back, Delcroix would actually be better

[123EasyasBFC]

Delcroix would genuinely be a better left back than Pires

[Milltown1882]

He’d be class if he was any good at football.

[Leyland Claret]

I’m struggling to think of a worse left back I’ve seen and I was around in the dark days of the mid 80’s

[Murger]

I’m struggling to think of a worse left back I’ve seen and I was around in the dark days of the mid 80’s

Lee Briscoe was bad.

[RVclaret]

Really worried about our promotion chances with this guy playing every game.

[warksclaret]

Rather than challenge aerially he just seems to half heartedly bundle into the opposing player. I noticed this trait at the start of the season. As for Sonne how has he got 10 international caps for Peru-I have just seen he is supposedly 6ft 2", yet he never won a header. Really thought today our fullbacks were our major weakness offering nothing.

[scamander]

Pires was found out today, the free kick he gave away was due to poor positioning, something which you'll be rinsed for if we go up. I think criticising Sonne is harsh, he's still new to the league and the system. He needs time to get used to it all and this game was always going to be tricky.

[JR1882]

Sonne in at RB and Roberts to LB?

[Leyland Claret]

Lee Briscoe was bad.

I’d rather have him at left back now, at whatever age he is, rather than this lad who looks like he did a couple of keepy uppies on Copacabana Beach whilst one of our recruitment team was on holiday in Brazil.

[Goliath]

I'm a bit baffled about the overreaction to a few performances today. Pires misjudged a challenge for the first goal, did the right thing to foul once he's misjudged it rather than let him get away. Brady then sticks one in the top corner from 30 yards. For the rest he was pretty average, him and Esteve were just below par, Worrall on the other hand was absolute diabolical.

I also don't think Sonne was as bad as is being made out, he probably should have kept going with the man on the end but think he went for the offside, regardless Worrall should he gobbled it up.

The 3rd I think was an absolutely brilliant ball over Sonne which took him out of the game, again Worrall should gobble that cross up, but he's too slow to get into position.
I'm not sure from that how Pires is being scapegoated here. But that's kind of been my point all along, people jump on every tiny mistake he makes, much more than anyone else. It's bizarre.

[warksclaret]

Pires playing for us at LB reminds me of Maatsen in his games this season for Aston Villa-terribly out of position and very indecisive to the long ball being played either over his head or across him. In their respective divisions both have serious defensive weaknesses

[Goodclaret]

I'm a bit baffled about the overreaction to a few performances today. Pires misjudged a challenge for the first goal, did the right thing to foul once he's misjudged it rather than let him get away. Brady then sticks one in the top corner from 30 yards. For the rest he was pretty average, him and Esteve were just below par, Worrall on the other hand was absolute diabolical.

I also don't think Sonne was as bad as is being made out, he probably should have kept going with the man on the end but think he went for the offside, regardless Worrall should he gobbled it up.

The 3rd I think was an absolutely brilliant ball over Sonne which took him out of the game, again Worrall should gobble that cross up, but he's too slow to get into position.
I'm not sure from that how Pires is being scapegoated here. But that's kind of been my point all along, people jump on every tiny mistake he makes, much more than anyone else. It's bizarre.

It's strange how we see things differently from the same game. I'll go through the points:

- the problem is his out of position then needing to foul is poor from Pires. Saying he did the right thing fouling him isn't a comfort - he needed to be better in the first place.

- I know the free kick was an absolute belter but, take a look at the wall. Everyone else jumped up with their heads still facing the ball. Pires jumps but then ducks down facing the ground. He didn't make himself any bigger and the ball went over his head. I'm not saying he could have stopped it but he made sure he definitely didn't

- for the third, Sonne is sooooo slow and should have dealt better with ball and his recovery run. He just let him go. I totally agree Worrall didn't do well and is, probably, more culpable than Sonne. Saying that Sonne looked sluggish all game and I was really wanting Roberts to come on but understand why he didn't.

I'm not looking for an argument but putting out how I viewed the game. No agenda against Pires at all but Humphreys is by far the better player and his future will prove this.

It's a funny old game

[CoolClaret]

Is this guy any better than Owen Dodgson?

[123EasyasBFC]

Is this guy any better than Owen Dodgson?

Is Pires better than al-dakhil would be at left back

[CoolClaret]

Is Pires better than al-dakhil would be at left back

Nope. I was v disappointed when we sold AAD - who has huge scope for growth.

[TsarBomba]

Is this guy any better than Owen Dodgson?

Watched Dodgson a few times last season for Dundee, one of them being against Rangers, and he looked really solid. Plus he’s an absolute unit, too.

[Conroy92]

There were far worse performances than Pires. An overreaction to a poor performance from a squad that's barley played together.
Glad that performance came in the cup rather than the league. We'll be better on Tuesday.

[Goliath]

It's strange how we see things differently from the same game. I'll go through the points:

- the problem is his out of position then needing to foul is poor from Pires. Saying he did the right thing fouling him isn't a comfort - he needed to be better in the first place.

- I know the free kick was an absolute belter but, take a look at the wall. Everyone else jumped up with their heads still facing the ball. Pires jumps but then ducks down facing the ground. He didn't make himself any bigger and the ball went over his head. I'm not saying he could have stopped it but he made sure he definitely didn't

- for the third, Sonne is sooooo slow and should have dealt better with ball and his recovery run. He just let him go. I totally agree Worrall didn't do well and is, probably, more culpable than Sonne. Saying that Sonne looked sluggish all game and I was really wanting Roberts to come on but understand why he didn't.

I'm not looking for an argument but putting out how I viewed the game. No agenda against Pires at all but Humphreys is by far the better player and his future will prove this.

It's a funny old game

It's fair enough, I haven't said Pires is brilliant by any means, I just don't think the stick he gets is fair really. The comment about him in the wall is a bit silly, he jumped and tried to block but the free kick is sensational he got a real loop on it to get it up and down.

Apart from that foul, I don't really see what Pires did so drastically wrong. In 99 percent of games the free kick comes to nothing and it never gets mentioned.

I'd need to see the Sonne one again, I thought it was a sensational pass to be honest, he couldn't have placed it better if he'd have walked over and put the ball down with his hand. It still should have been really straight forward for Worrall to just pick up the standard position infront of the near post and clear it away, it's absolute garbage from him.

[Goodclaret]

There were far worse performances than Pires. An overreaction to a poor performance from a squad that's barley played together.
Glad that performance came in the cup rather than the league. We'll be better on Tuesday.

Absolutely Conroy - always better looking at the bigger picture rather than a one off, very much changed, side. It was grim but there was a reason.

[Stonehouse]

I’m struggling to think of a worse left back I’ve seen and I was around in the dark days of the mid 80’s

Was it Flanagan that we had on loan from Liverpool ? he played when we got beaten be Stanley ,he was definitely worse than Pires.

[CoolClaret]

Watched Dodgson a few times last season for Dundee, one of them being against Rangers, and he looked really solid. Plus he’s an absolute unit, too.

Seems to be doing tremendously well in L1.

I posted this on a few threads, so it's probably boring people, but I don't understand speculating for a significant sum on players that we have no real indication are any better than what we already have, ESPECIALLY when we have needs elsewhere.

[Goliath]

Was it Flanagan that we had on loan from Liverpool ? he played when we got beaten be Stanley ,he was definitely worse than Pires.

Flanagan and Easton would be the full backs in my worst Burnley 11 (since 2003) with Eckersley on the bench

[Goodclaret]

It's fair enough, I haven't said Pires is brilliant by any means, I just don't think the stick he gets is fair really. The comment about him in the wall is a bit silly, he jumped and tried to block but the free kick is sensational he got a real loop on it to get it up and down.

Apart from that foul, I don't really see what Pires did so drastically wrong. In 99 percent of games the free kick comes to nothing and it never gets mentioned.

I'd need to see the Sonne one again, I thought it was a sensational pass to be honest, he couldn't have placed it better if he'd have walked over and put the ball down with his hand. It still should have been really straight forward for Worrall to just pick up the standard position infront of the near post and clear it away, it's absolute garbage from him.

Hey, it's all opinions but he didn't do his job in the wall. As I said, I'm not blaming him thinking it would have stopped a fantastic freekick but, when comparing his actions to the rest of the wall, I felt he stood out. I agree (again) he isn't an awful player but he's a long way off Humphreys.

[ksrclaret]

He's far from being the worst left back we've had, that's just daft. Brian Easton couldn't kick the thing in anything resembling the direction he wanted it to go.

He's also far from being a good player for this level though. Humphreys will be a huge miss. I just hope the other 3 from our best defence remain for the rest of the season because we saw today the guys underneath them are a huge downgrade.

[Vim Fuego]

Seems to be doing tremendously well in L1.

I posted this on a few threads, so it's probably boring people, but I don't understand speculating for a significant sum on players that we have no real indication are any better than what we already have, ESPECIALLY when we have needs elsewhere.

Agree with this. Good post Cool

[Vim Fuego]

CJ an example of this that has come good

[warksclaret]

It's strange how we see things differently from the same game. I'll go through the points:

- the problem is his out of position then needing to foul is poor from Pires. Saying he did the right thing fouling him isn't a comfort - he needed to be better in the first place.

- I know the free kick was an absolute belter but, take a look at the wall. Everyone else jumped up with their heads still facing the ball. Pires jumps but then ducks down facing the ground. He didn't make himself any bigger and the ball went over his head. I'm not saying he could have stopped it but he made sure he definitely didn't

- for the third, Sonne is sooooo slow and should have dealt better with ball and his recovery run. He just let him go. I totally agree Worrall didn't do well and is, probably, more culpable than Sonne. Saying that Sonne looked sluggish all game and I was really wanting Roberts to come on but understand why he didn't.

I'm not looking for an argument but putting out how I viewed the game. No agenda against Pires at all but Humphreys is by far the better player and his future will prove this.

It's a funny old game

You have summed up the two full backs in exactly the same way I saw them. Both well below par in defensive and positioning duties , particularly for
a side pushing for promotion. Neither would get anywhere near the squads of Leeds and Sheff Utd, and I suspect the majority of the other teams in our division

[boatshed bill]

You have summed up the two full backs in exactly the same way I saw them. Both well below par in defensive and positioning duties , particularly for
a side pushing for promotion. Neither would get anywhere near the squads of Leeds and Sheff Utd, and I suspect the majority of the other teams in our division

Probably, but midfielders are allowed to help out a bit

[billyhamilton82]

I must admit that I'm very concerned that we currently only have Pires as our only option at left back, whilst Humphreys is injured.

I also think it was a mistake to let Dodgson go out on loan.

I hope Pires proves me wrong but he has to learn the basics of defending very quickly as he doesn't seem to have grasped them so far.

The free kick he gave away for the first goal yesterday as an obvious example.

The same concern would be raised if Roberts got injured as Sonne looks way off the pace currently.

As mentioned I hope they prove me wrong but the signs so far haven't been reassuring.

[Goliath]

I must admit that I'm very concerned that we currently only have Pires as our only option at left back, whilst Humphreys is injured.

I also think it was a mistake to let Dodgson go out on loan.

I hope Pires proves me wrong but he has to learn the basics of defending very quickly as he doesn't seem to have grasped them so far.

The free kick he gave away for the first goal yesterday as an obvious example.

The same concern would be raised if Roberts got injured as Sonne looks way off the pace currently.

As mentioned I hope they prove me wrong but the signs so far haven't been reassuring.

Serious question, would you comment on a foul like that if Roberts committed it and the free kick went over the bar. The judgements seem so based on the outcome, it's just a bit OTT

[billyhamilton82]

Serious question, would you comment on a foul like that if Roberts committed it and the free kick went over the bar. The judgements seem so based on the outcome, it's just a bit OTT

Roberts or Humphreys wouldn't have made that challenge.

Especially as Brady used to play for us it must have been mentioned pre match don't give any silly free kicks away in and around the area.

If Brady had the option its exactly where he would have placed the ball on the pitch.

[billyhamilton82]

I also know Kaine Kesler Hayden wouldn't have made that challenge.

We should be looking closely into that situation with his contract running out in May.

[123EasyasBFC]

I also know Kaine Kesler Hayden wouldn't have made that challenge.

We should be looking closely into that situation with his contract running out in May.

Fanatic player but as a wing back, not sure Kesler Hayden is suited to a back 4

[jrgbfc]

Seems to be doing tremendously well in L1.

I posted this on a few threads, so it's probably boring people, but I don't understand speculating for a significant sum on players that we have no real indication are any better than what we already have, ESPECIALLY when we have needs elsewhere.

Or bringing in someone like Shelvey when we could have possibly got Bauress more involved?

[CoolClaret]

Or bringing in someone like Shelvey when we could have possibly got Bauress more involved?

Aye - same sort of thing.

[agreenwood]

Fair play to Pires. I haven’t always been his biggest fan, but he’s coping with a higher game load than some of his teammates and performing admirably in Humphrey’s absence.

Another decent game last night against tough opposition.

[RVclaret]

He’s been far from convincing at times, but the last two games he’s looked miles better and I chose him as MOTM last night. Two of his crosses deserved a goal. The second one was outstanding defending by Styles albeit Edwards perhaps should have read it earlier to get across him for a tap in.

[Dark Cloud]

I think Humphreys is slightly better, but I don't really have a problem with Pires the way quite a lot of others do. He's generally fine and has definitely had two very good games recently.

[CoolClaret]

Played really well last night, looked comfortable on the ball, came into midfield at times showing for the ball and put a few wicked balls across - promising!

[Goliath]

Who knew that giving a young foreign player a chance may be what's needed to help him develop. The comments on here were utterly laughable, with people even going as far to say he's the worst left back we've ever had.