Talksport now

[Judehamish]

If as I think, the standard of the top few sides isn’t as good as it once was I expect sides lower down to have many more points than they ordinarily would have.
Very poor teams will always lose games, but just because the average premier league teams have more points than normal does not necessarily denote some sort of sea change

[Conroy92]

Interesting points, although I’m not sure what you mean by do something differently? I’m interested to know your thoughts on what could/should be done differently to bridge the gap if promoted.

The different thing to do would be not to chase survival at all. But continue to quietly build your empire even in the face of relegation so that eventually one season you come back up and are equipped and ready.

It's what we did under Dyche and why we stayed for so long. Teams churning 10-15 new players in and 10-15 players out in the events of relegation or promotion has become the norm.

There shouldn't be a massive gap to bridge if promoted. You should have already started on bridging that gap when your in the championship. By bringing in players that can develop and by retaining a core group of quality. I make it sound easy but I'm aware its not. But that's the difference. Most clubs plan for promotion and then survival as two different feats. It should be part of the same path.

[Woodleyclaret]

Steve will stay as he wants Premier League football.I would sell Traff but it has to be North of £40m with a 25% sell on clause especially to moneybags Newcastle.Zeki Amdouni is a class international striker and if possible we should retain him.I would give Tressor a free and sell on Ramsay,Foster ,Pires and Worrall.
Harrison Reed is a decent Brownhill replacement.

[TsarBomba]

The different thing to do would be not to chase survival at all. But continue to quietly build your empire even in the face of relegation so that eventually one season you come back up and are equipped and ready.

It's what we did under Dyche and why we stayed for so long. Teams churning 10-15 new players in and 10-15 players out in the events of relegation or promotion has become the norm.

There shouldn't be a massive gap to bridge if promoted. You should have already started on bridging that gap when your in the championship. By bringing in players that can develop and by retaining a core group of quality. I make it sound easy but I'm aware its not. But that's the difference. Most clubs plan for promotion and then survival as two different feats. It should be part of the same path.

Spot on. Really good post.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Steve will stay as he wants Premier League football.I would sell Traff but it has to be North of £40m with a 25% sell on clause especially to moneybags Newcastle.Zeki Amdouni is a class international striker and if possible we should retain him.I would give Tressor a free and sell on Ramsay,Foster ,Pires and Worrall.
Harrison Reed is a decent Brownhill replacement.

So Esteve won't sign for another side in the Premier League because he wants Premier league football ?

We aren't going to be getting bids of over £40 million for Trafford.

You have never liked Ramsey but who do you think we would be selling him to and for how much given he has just been out a year ?

[Spijed]

I think one of the reasons teams have struggled in the last couple of seasons is the desire to copy Guardiola and his style of play, simply because it's "trendy".

It's no coincidence that the team which didn't follow this stupid blueprint was the one who had the best chance of survival.

Luton Town

[claretonthecoast1882]

I think one of the reasons teams have struggled in the last couple of seasons is the desire to copy Guardiola and his style of play, simply because it's "trendy".

It's no coincidence that the team which didn't follow this stupid blueprint was the one who had the best chance of survival.

Luton Town

Maybe they should have copied Pep's style this season

[Ampth7]

The different thing to do would be not to chase survival at all. But continue to quietly build your empire even in the face of relegation so that eventually one season you come back up and are equipped and ready.

It's what we did under Dyche and why we stayed for so long. Teams churning 10-15 new players in and 10-15 players out in the events of relegation or promotion has become the norm.

There shouldn't be a massive gap to bridge if promoted. You should have already started on bridging that gap when your in the championship. By bringing in players that can develop and by retaining a core group of quality. I make it sound easy but I'm aware its not. But that's the difference. Most clubs plan for promotion and then survival as two different feats. It should be part of the same path.

Interesting points and well made. I agree with everything you suggest and let’s hope we can find the right balance to get us promoted and then stay there. As you say, it’s not easy, I hope that if we get promoted that we don’t do what VK did last year by culling the squad.

[Goliath]

The different thing to do would be not to chase survival at all. But continue to quietly build your empire even in the face of relegation so that eventually one season you come back up and are equipped and ready.

It's what we did under Dyche and why we stayed for so long. Teams churning 10-15 new players in and 10-15 players out in the events of relegation or promotion has become the norm.

There shouldn't be a massive gap to bridge if promoted. You should have already started on bridging that gap when your in the championship. By bringing in players that can develop and by retaining a core group of quality. I make it sound easy but I'm aware its not. But that's the difference. Most clubs plan for promotion and then survival as two different feats. It should be part of the same path.

I understand the theory behind this but not sure what the point is in practicality. Under Dyche the clubs infrastructure was miles behind so we saved the money to build a training ground etc.

We can't just basically accept relegation and not spend because there is no guarantee we'd go straight back up. If Dyche hadn't managed to ship Vossen back out so he could afford Gray and then been given the opportunity to get Barton then I very much doubt we go straight back up. It just takes one or 2 big mistakes in the market and you're knackered.

We can attract better players and afford higher wages after promotion so that's the exact time to kick on. It's finding the right players to do that which is the key. We already know some players aren't good enough at PL level which gives us a head start.

Right back, centre mid, winger and striker to go straight into competing for a starting place would be the absolute bare minimum. The mistake Kompany made was alienating so many players that should have been vital to the dressing room and important rotational players I.E Cork, JBG, Roberts, Jay Rod.

[boyyanno]

Interesting points and well made. I agree with everything you suggest and let’s hope we can find the right balance to get us promoted and then stay there. As you say, it’s not easy, I hope that if we get promoted that we don’t do what VK did last year by culling the squad.

Spijed and Conroy probably cover it for me between them.

Too many teams going up at the moment thinking they'll outfootball the other PL teams whilst playing a very similar style with worse players. As a result everyone chops and changes players trying to chase the sufficient quality required to play that way.

I'm all for signing better players when we go up, but they need to be practical signings not Amdouni's and we need a core group of them to stay longer than 12 months.

[Conroy92]

I understand the theory behind this but not sure what the point is in practicality. Under Dyche the clubs infrastructure was miles behind so we saved the money to build a training ground etc.

We can't just basically accept relegation and not spend because there is no guarantee we'd go straight back up. If Dyche hadn't managed to ship Vossen back out so he could afford Gray and then been given the opportunity to get Barton then I very much doubt we go straight back up. It just takes one or 2 big mistakes in the market and you're knackered.

We can attract better players and afford higher wages after promotion so that's the exact time to kick on. It's finding the right players to do that which is the key. We already know some players aren't good enough at PL level which gives us a head start.

Right back, centre mid, winger and striker to go straight into competing for a starting place would be the absolute bare minimum. The mistake Kompany made was alienating so many players that should have been vital to the dressing room and important rotational players I.E Cork, JBG, Roberts, Jay Rod.

I think you are mistaken in "saving money". At no stage did I mention this. I am not advocating in saving money at all. It's a continual evolution of the squad that is required and that requires investment, but more than that, not selling all the quality in the event of relegation is in some ways "spending money" for a club like ours.
It could have been as simple as not letting an Odebert go in Summer and being top of the league now with another premier league asset on the book. By not selling, we have in some ways "spent the money".
Or course that's an example and maybe a poor one as players wanting to leave ect will always play a part.

Its not about accepting relegation and not spending. It's continuing to spend within our means and continuing the same transfer strategy in looking to develop younger players that can become premier league assets. As opposed to, let's suddenly sign a load of 20m pound players who are ready. You are correct it takes a couple of mistakes in the market and your knackered, if your relying on the fortunes of one window to save you. Spreading your business around over multiple seasons and windows mitigates this. Again, I'm back to bringing in a few additions rather than replacing half the team.

I feel the next bit has you falling into the trap. Your right, the premier league rightly sees us having a bigger player pull and offering bigger wages. But that dosnt suddenly means we have to abuse that and sign a load of expensive players deemed ready. We are better using that to attract the young profiles of players to develop and take advantage in that respect. It's part of the reason people have to sell so much on relegation. These premium players 9/10 don't want to drop to the championship. We've seen it ourselves. Yet you have more chance with players at the age of Trafford sticking around.

Kompany made many other mistakes in the premier league and potentially greater than just alienating players in the side.

[Goliath]

I think you are mistaken in "saving money". At no stage did I mention this. I am not advocating in saving money at all. It's a continual evolution of the squad that is required and that requires investment, but more than that, not selling all the quality in the event of relegation is in some ways "spending money" for a club like ours.
It could have been as simple as not letting an Odebert go in Summer and being top of the league now with another premier league asset on the book. By not selling, we have in some ways "spent the money".
Or course that's an example and maybe a poor one as players wanting to leave ect will always play a part.

Its not about accepting relegation and not spending. It's continuing to spend within our means and continuing the same transfer strategy in looking to develop younger players that can become premier league assets. As opposed to, let's suddenly sign a load of 20m pound players who are ready. You are correct it takes a couple of mistakes in the market and your knackered, if your relying on the fortunes of one window to save you. Spreading your business around over multiple seasons and windows mitigates this. Again, I'm back to bringing in a few additions rather than replacing half the team.

I feel the next bit has you falling into the trap. Your right, the premier league rightly sees us having a bigger player pull and offering bigger wages. But that dosnt suddenly means we have to abuse that and sign a load of expensive players deemed ready. We are better using that to attract the young profiles of players to develop and take advantage in that respect. It's part of the reason people have to sell so much on relegation. These premium players 9/10 don't want to drop to the championship. We've seen it ourselves. Yet you have more chance with players at the age of Trafford sticking around.

Kompany made many other mistakes in the premier league and potentially greater than just alienating players in the side.

Fair, it's not an unreasonable argument. I just think our first 11 is miles off PL safety at present. I don't think we have one central midfielder that's up to Premier league level.

We'd have some great backup options but we'd need some Sander Berge's. Players with premier league experience to stand a chance. Finding some that are affordable and available is the tricky bit.

Another problem with teams who have been in the prem for one season going down is it leaves leaves less available in terms of potential transfers because most of their squads aren't good enough. I believe Cajuste at Ipswich has been really good in their midfield that they got on loan with view to permanent, could be a possible option.

That loan with an obligation if staying up is probably a market that we should use more in the PL than the champ, so we aren't stuck with another Tresor if relegated and means we can continue to build year on year if we stay up. There's a balance to be had and we are probably both looking at opposite ends of the scale, it's that middle ground which is what we need to find.

[jlup1980]

I think you are mistaken in "saving money". At no stage did I mention this. I am not advocating in saving money at all. It's a continual evolution of the squad that is required and that requires investment, but more than that, not selling all the quality in the event of relegation is in some ways "spending money" for a club like ours.
It could have been as simple as not letting an Odebert go in Summer and being top of the league now with another premier league asset on the book. By not selling, we have in some ways "spent the money".
Or course that's an example and maybe a poor one as players wanting to leave ect will always play a part.

Its not about accepting relegation and not spending. It's continuing to spend within our means and continuing the same transfer strategy in looking to develop younger players that can become premier league assets. As opposed to, let's suddenly sign a load of 20m pound players who are ready. You are correct it takes a couple of mistakes in the market and your knackered, if your relying on the fortunes of one window to save you. Spreading your business around over multiple seasons and windows mitigates this. Again, I'm back to bringing in a few additions rather than replacing half the team.

I feel the next bit has you falling into the trap. Your right, the premier league rightly sees us having a bigger player pull and offering bigger wages. But that dosnt suddenly means we have to abuse that and sign a load of expensive players deemed ready. We are better using that to attract the young profiles of players to develop and take advantage in that respect. It's part of the reason people have to sell so much on relegation. These premium players 9/10 don't want to drop to the championship. We've seen it ourselves. Yet you have more chance with players at the age of Trafford sticking around.

Kompany made many other mistakes in the premier league and potentially greater than just alienating players in the side.

This is exactly my thoughts. In recent years we've fallen into a cycle of ripping up the playbook every 12 months. It's not sustainable at any level. Parker has worked wonders this season when you consider the upheaval of last summer and the fall out of the VK method. As it stands we have a decent team. The Championship is clearly a lesser quality than the PL, but our defensive record should be a good starting point for next season. Not even Dyche achieved this level of defensive stability!

Personally, if we go up, we should look to retain our most influential players. We wouldn't need to sell Trafford, Esteve, or anyone else. These lads are young enough to give us another 12 months, and without it impacting their valuations too much. Our success this season is based on the sum of our parts. I wouldn't be looking to rip that apart over the summer in favour of a bunch of unknowns. It's taken time for the fans to build and affinity with this squad, that shouldn't be thrown away.

I think we know Brownhill will go, and there's big question marks over Laurent at PL level, so midfield will need work. But we don't need a total restart. Bring in 2 or 3 PL quality players and the whole team would go up a level. We all saw what the addition of Defour did for us!

Trafford
Roberts CJ Esteve Humphries
Cullen NEW
Edwards NEW Anthony
NEW

[Spijed]

Maybe they should have copied Pep's style this season

Hope not. We need Luton to hoof the ball into the box this weekend and put Leeds under as much pressure as possible

[Dyched]

I’d like us to bring in players around 26/27/28. Forget youth and potential. Every single club is doing that. I want Arfields and Boyds. Barnes and Wards. Players that will give 100% and they only leave when we tell them too. Not players who are looking for the next move after 4 months.

[dsr]

I’d like us to bring in players around 26/27/28. Forget youth and potential. Every single club is doing that. I want Arfields and Boyds. Barnes and Wards. Players that will give 100% and they only leave when we tell them too. Not players who are looking for the next move after 4 months.

But with the club having so much interest to pay as well as the normal running costs, a big part of the budget is the income from selling players. Boyd and Arfield wouldn't fit the plan.

[Darnhill Claret]

It is all about being flexible and getting the balance right. Results are still the metric that we will judge our club by.
I hope that whatever happens at the end of this season, and next season, that Scott Parker is still our manager.
I also hope that supporters stop demanding to be entertained and use the 'level of entertainment' to judge.
It will be a struggle, and a lot of games will be a hard watch.
Scott has prepared us well this season.

[KRBFC]

Well it wouldn't cost the club fortunes. That's sort of the point. You are assuming he'd earn the same as he's on at Everton. He won't.

It's a no brainer of a signing for any promoted club

Why? He will be on a fortune and he’s been shite for years.