more planned alterations at Turf Moor

[Elizabeth]

Because the Club didn't introduce it as a temporary measure I can only assume this is here to stay. The timing of releasing this information was very poor too with rumour and counter rumour going around as we approached the start of the Home fixtures. I can understand a lot of what they want to achieve, kids seeing the players up close, players facing the Board members, their guests and dignitaries before kick off etc.

I just don't get the re-routing of fans without there being an agenda.

Thanks John, I hope common sense prevails. At least starting before games when home fans make their way on to the ground spread over a period of 2-3 hours.
Sadly we are living in a time when common sense is trumped by all kind of hidden nonsense going on.
Such good news this week about the Hillsborough Act

[CrosspoolClarets]

A business trying to maximise its own revenue by getting people to use the services it provides. Is there no end to our board’s despicable skullduggery…

To be fair virtually all businesses would actually lose revenue if they treat their customers badly by making it harder and more inconvenient for them to access their facilities. If it was indeed done as a revenue raiser, then it is business insanity.

(though to echo others, the team coach arrival I applaud, it is the separate blocking off on Ormerod Yard that has caused most consternation)

[Row x]

To be fair virtually all businesses would actually lose revenue if they treat their customers badly by making it harder and more inconvenient for them to access their facilities. If it was indeed done as a revenue raiser, then it is business insanity.

(though to echo others, the team coach arrival I applaud, it is the separate blocking off on Ormerod Yard that has caused most consternation)

At the risk of big vinny jumping on and accusing me of all things
I dont agree with the moves, and certainly how they were communicated
However......businesses have to cater for the majority of their customers, if they based their business strategy on pandering to the minority they'd go to the wall pretty quickly .

So how many of the 20k attending the game, are so badly affected by the change they won't spend money with the club anymore?

I would guess very few, I get it takes longer to get out after the game, and a bit further to walk, and if that affected me, I might have a quick moan about it, but I'd still buy a season ticket

[Elizabeth]

At the risk of big vinny jumping on and accusing me of all things
I dont agree with the moves, and certainly how they were communicated
However......businesses have to cater for the majority of their customers, if they based their business strategy on pandering to the minority they'd go to the wall pretty quickly .

So how many of the 20k attending the game, are so badly affected by the change they won't spend money with the club anymore?

I would guess very few, I get it takes longer to get out after the game, and a bit further to walk, and if that affected me, I might have a quick moan about it, but I'd still buy a season ticket

Big Vinny is always worth reading and you are not the first poster he's jumped on
I'm thinking the majority of fans really affected don't spend money anyway with the club
It's about respecting opinions boys

[Row x]

Big Vinny is always worth reading and you are not the first poster he's jumped on
I'm thinking the majority of fans really affected don't spend money anyway with the club
It's about respecting opinions boys

They do spend money though, if only on tickets, and they will continue to do so, however much they hate the moves, which for a business is the bottom line.

If you like reading somebody who makes things up, just for effect, you go for it, but I'll ignore in future.

[Elizabeth]

They do spend money though, if only on tickets, and they will continue to do so, however much they hate the moves, which for a business is the bottom line.

If you like reading somebody who makes things up, just for effect, you go for it, but I'll ignore in future.

Yes, they'll continue to buy match day tickets and merchandise. I was thinking of other spends that benefit the club.
I enjoyed watching gorillas beating their chests in zoos many years ago. Make of that what you will.

[CrosspoolClarets]

At the risk of big vinny jumping on and accusing me of all things
I dont agree with the moves, and certainly how they were communicated
However......businesses have to cater for the majority of their customers, if they based their business strategy on pandering to the minority they'd go to the wall pretty quickly .

So how many of the 20k attending the game, are so badly affected by the change they won't spend money with the club anymore?

I would guess very few, I get it takes longer to get out after the game, and a bit further to walk, and if that affected me, I might have a quick moan about it, but I'd still buy a season ticket

Quite a few I reckon. Plenty will drop off, not a major issue as long as others replace them, but in time they may not.

Any business strategic advisor would say things have to be modelled on a 10 year view. In 10 years we could be in the doldrums or every game could be available to pay to watch on TV, even 3pm Saturdays. So many fans come from far away, adding an hour to the journey back (which it nearly was for me after Sunderland, 15 minutes extra walking and 30 minutes worse traffic due to the delay) will be a decisive factor for many. When it chucks it down in that logjam could be the final straw, and of course it will.

I look at things very simply, which is make the product and customer service as desirable as possible to the customer. These changes have done the opposite, other than for a few, and it is the JHU people paying the most (not incl. hospitality) that have been inconvenienced the most. All that is needed to avoid this is understanding, communication and consultation.

[Goody1975]

A business trying to maximise its own revenue by getting people to use the services it provides. Is there no end to our board’s despicable skullduggery…

You mean like the catering inside the ground, which seems to be run by teenagers with little or no knowledge and enthusiasm for the role they are employed to do?

[Row x]

Quite a few I reckon. Plenty will drop off, not a major issue as long as others replace them, but in time they may not.

Any business strategic advisor would say things have to be modelled on a 10 year view. In 10 years we could be in the doldrums or every game could be available to pay to watch on TV, even 3pm Saturdays. So many fans come from far away, adding an hour to the journey back (which it nearly was for me after Sunderland, 15 minutes extra walking and 30 minutes worse traffic due to the delay) will be a decisive factor for many. When it chucks it down in that logjam could be the final straw, and of course it will.

I look at things very simply, which is make the product and customer service as desirable as possible to the customer. These changes have done the opposite, other than for a few, and it is the JHU people paying the most (not incl. hospitality) that have been inconvenienced the most. All that is needed to avoid this is understanding, communication and consultation.

Depends how much supporting Burnley means to them.
Over the years places where we used to go pre match have closed down, and we've ended up walking further to the ground, parking in different places, adapting to the changes, but never once thought it was getting too difficult to attend.

It's not ideal, and I've said previously the communication was poor, but things change, most people adapt to it, others moan about it, but still attend

[GetIntoEm]

Would people stop going because they had to walk 5mins longer?

Not sure their hearts in it if so

[dsr]

Would people stop going because they had to walk 5mins longer?

Not sure their hearts in it if so

The club can't rely on only those supporters who are fanatical and will turn out in all weathers regardless of how far they have to walk. Some of their customer base is less keen but their money is still good.

The distance from the corner of the Longside stand to the traffic lights on Brunshaw/Belvedere will be well over half a mile, which isn't something that can be done in 5 minutes. (It's a quarter of a mile to walk round the touchline of a football pitch, so add in the stands and car parks and cricket field, it makes a long walk.)

So if there are people who find the extra half hour walk unappealing on a winter day and they stop coming, don't be surprised.

[Wokingclaret]

To the advantage of being in BL4 is we no longer have to go past the away coaches and receive abuse. Also in games like Millwall and Rovers we need not have to walk around the houses at the end of games.

[Wokingclaret]

However, I felt Sunday's penalty, with the away fans now behind the goal; I felt the old problem returned, the ball was sucked into the net!

[Elizabeth]

So if Burnley fans were behind the net we would have gusted it over the bar . No, I think wherever the penalty was taken Salah would have been so focused the only result was a penalty goal.

[Wokingclaret]

So if Burnley fans were behind the net we would have gusted it over the bar . No, I think wherever the penalty was taken Salah would have been so focused the only result was a penalty goal.

Maybe not, but it can only help

[Row x]

Maybe not, but it can only help

I doubt the calibre of players in the premier league are influenced by the crowd in that way

[Enola Gay]

You mean like the catering inside the ground, which seems to be run by teenagers with little or no knowledge and enthusiasm for the role they are employed to do?

I’m not really bothered about the catering inside the ground, I very rarely use it.

The post I was responding to was about a) people having to leave the pub earlier to make the kickoff and b) the idea that the club might be consciously trying to grab some business from those local pubs.

Neither of which I have a problem with, to be honest.

[beddie]

I’ve dropped a line fao Mr Pace with an idea about Ormerod Yard for home supporters. Probably won’t do any good but no harm sending it, assuming it’s put in front of him of course.

[Bosscat]

To the advantage of being in BL4 is we no longer have to go past the away coaches and receive abuse. Also in games like Millwall and Rovers we need not have to walk around the houses at the end of games.

We have to walk "around the houses" every game down Holcombe Drive ... being in in the North Stand and brave a far worse pinch point behind the Jimmy Mac.

[Dyched]

The club can't rely on only those supporters who are fanatical and will turn out in all weathers regardless of how far they have to walk. Some of their customer base is less keen but their money is still good.

The distance from the corner of the Longside stand to the traffic lights on Brunshaw/Belvedere will be well over half a mile, which isn't something that can be done in 5 minutes. (It's a quarter of a mile to walk round the touchline of a football pitch, so add in the stands and car parks and cricket field, it makes a long walk.)

So if there are people who find the extra half hour walk unappealing on a winter day and they stop coming, don't be surprised.

Extra half an hour? Really?

If you sit in the corner of the Longside (near the away supporters), it’s a bit longer.

The walk down the longside is like what, 20m longer than the cricket pitch. Then the walk past the CFS is the same as the JMc. There’s basically the length of the Bob Lord extra.

[Deathtrip]

Moan Moan Moan some of you guys need to get a life.

[Deathtrip]

However, I felt Sunday's penalty, with the away fans now behind the goal; I felt the old problem returned, the ball was sucked into the net!

What a load of tosh.

[Den_Perry]

It took me an extra 6 hours to get back to the car on Sunday. The queueing at the JM bottleneck and past the Liverpool team coaches was too much to handle for me and my multitude of children so we were forced to lift a manhole and crawl through the drains like rats being summoned by the pied piper of Stoneyholme. Bloody ridiculous state of affairs, ruined my best shellsuit as well.

[daveisaclaret]

For whatever reason it's just unfathomable to some on here that these changes have had a profound impact on some of our disabled and/or elderly fans.

[Bosscat]

It took me an extra 6 hours to get back to the car on Sunday. The queueing at the JM bottleneck and past the Liverpool team coaches was too much to handle for me and my multitude of children so we were forced to lift a manhole and crawl through the drains like rats being summoned by the pied piper of Stoneyholme. Bloody ridiculous state of affairs, ruined my best shellsuit as well.

I've ordered one of these to avoid the bottle neck

download.jpeg (61.34 KiB) Viewed 1030 times

[Bosscat]

For whatever reason it's just unfathomable to some on here that these changes have had a profound impact on some of our disabled and/or elderly fans.

[claretonthecoast1882]

I've ordered one of these to avoid the bottle neck download.jpeg

Can you drop me off in the centre at full time

[Den_Perry]

For whatever reason it's just unfathomable to some on here that these changes have had a profound impact on some of our disabled and/or elderly fans.

Not really, I was just being daft for a moment. I agree with most other posters on this one. The changes really haven’t been thought through properly in my opinion and it was a pain in the arse getting back to the car as we sit at the far end of the JHU near the away fans so have the longest walk round (we generally park up near the top/far end of Thompsons park). It would surely have been worth considering installing one or more sets of lockable gates leading out on to the path running around the outer edge of the wall/fence surrounding the car park and (which suggests to me this was a snap decision or they don’t care about the impact). But hey ho...

[Row x]

For whatever reason it's just unfathomable to some on here that these changes have had a profound impact on some of our disabled and/or elderly fans.

That sit where?

[martin_p]

The distance from the corner of the Longside stand to the traffic lights on Brunshaw/Belvedere will be well over half a mile, which isn't something that can be done in 5 minutes. (It's a quarter of a mile to walk round the touchline of a football pitch, so add in the stands and car parks and cricket field, it makes a long walk.)

0.4 miles from the corner of the north stand nearest the cricket field to the Belvedere Road traffic lights according to Google Maps.

[ŽižkovClaret]

For whatever reason it's just unfathomable to some on here that these changes have had a profound impact on some of our disabled and/or elderly fans.

To play Devils' Advocate, if they have mobility difficulties that make these arrangements an issue, could/should they not be in the sections that the club have spent a not inconsiderable sum providing for this exact purpose?

[Claret Till I Die]

To play Devils' Advocate, if they have mobility difficulties that make these arrangements an issue, could/should they not be in the sections that the club have spent a not inconsiderable sum providing for this exact purpose?

Just being disabled isn't a guarantee of being able to get a ticket in those two areas unfortunately.

[Row x]

To play Devils' Advocate, if they have mobility difficulties that make these arrangements an issue, could/should they not be in the sections that the club have spent a not inconsiderable sum providing for this exact purpose?

I'm sceptical with some of the complaints

When first announced some were saying they'd have to stop going because they were so poor on their pins they couldn't walk the extra bit
When pushed they admitted they were in the upper tier of the north stand
How many flights of stairs is that?

[lovebeingaclaret]

I'm sceptical with some of the complaints

When first announced some were saying they'd have to stop going because they were so poor on their pins they couldn't walk the extra bit
When pushed they admitted they were in the upper tier of the north stand
How many flights of stairs is that?

When I started following Burnley in 1959, a good year for that to happen, I could run up the Longside steps backwards. I didn't of course cos I was with my dad, and he couldn't.

Over the years I had children and we all stood together on the Longside of Bee Hole End at the back and we could all manage the terrace steps, no problem,

Then along came the JH stand and all four of us gathered in the Upper part of it. No worries, all quite young, and fit all able to run up the steps.

Then we were blessed with four grandchildren and as they grew older we managed to secure more seats all together in the JH Upper.

The grandchildren are now taller than me, my kids are middle aged, but we still share the bond of sitting together in the seats.

I now find myself in my dad's situation in that I take my time push on my stick hard and get to my seat early and eat my potato pie and welcome my family as they arrive later.

The additional walking creates a lhell of a lot more pain when I finally arrive at my seat, pain which younger people have no idea. What niggles is that this discomfort is totally unnecessary. The players arrival??? Did they not arrive at the ground before these changes?

You are a sceptic?

You want me to sit in the lower while my family wave at me in the upper?

[martin_p]

When I started following Burnley in 1959, a good year for that to happen, I could run up the Longside steps backwards. I didn't of course cos I was with my dad, and he couldn't.

Over the years I had children and we all stood together on the Longside of Bee Hole End at the back and we could all manage the terrace steps, no problem,

Then along came the JH stand and all four of us gathered in the Upper part of it. No worries, all quite young, and fit all able to run up the steps.

Then we were blessed with four grandchildren and as they grew older we managed to secure more seats all together in the JH Upper.

The grandchildren are now taller than me, my kids are middle aged, but we still share the bond of sitting together in the seats.

I now find myself in my dad's situation in that I take my time push on my stick hard and get to my seat early and eat my potato pie and welcome my family as they arrive later.

The additional walking creates a lhell of a lot more pain when I finally arrive at my seat, pain which younger people have no idea. What niggles is that this discomfort is totally unnecessary. The players arrival??? Did they not arrive at the ground before these changes?

You are a sceptic?

You want me to sit in the lower while my family wave at me in the upper?

Maybe if you’re having problems you ask your family to move with you.

[Row x]

When I started following Burnley in 1959, a good year for that to happen, I could run up the Longside steps backwards. I didn't of course cos I was with my dad, and he couldn't.

Over the years I had children and we all stood together on the Longside of Bee Hole End at the back and we could all manage the terrace steps, no problem,

Then along came the JH stand and all four of us gathered in the Upper part of it. No worries, all quite young, and fit all able to run up the steps.

Then we were blessed with four grandchildren and as they grew older we managed to secure more seats all together in the JH Upper.

The grandchildren are now taller than me, my kids are middle aged, but we still share the bond of sitting together in the seats.

I now find myself in my dad's situation in that I take my time push on my stick hard and get to my seat early and eat my potato pie and welcome my family as they arrive later.

The additional walking creates a lhell of a lot more pain when I finally arrive at my seat, pain which younger people have no idea. What niggles is that this discomfort is totally unnecessary. The players arrival??? Did they not arrive at the ground before these changes?

You are a sceptic?

You want me to sit in the lower while my family wave at me in the upper?

Are you sending your season ticket back?
Or are you going to adapt?
I've said many times, its not ideal, but people are finding different places to park....I've done it 3 times over the years because places have shut etc.

[lovebeingaclaret]

Thought I'd hang about. Some people have no idea.

Perhaps you are suggesting move to Ewood Park cos they have loads of spare seats?
and ... did the club give months of warning that all this was going to happen, or was it a couple of weeks.

I repeat ... some people have no idea.

Could you please find nine seats all together please?

[Row x]

Thought I'd hang about. Some people have no idea.

Perhaps you are suggesting move to Ewood Park cos they have loads of spare seats?
and ... did the club give months of warning that all this was going to happen, or was it a couple of weeks.

I repeat ... some people have no idea.

Could you please find nine seats all together please?

Hopefully that's not aimed at me, as I've suggested no such thing
Just a slight hint to perhaps park somewhere different, so the walk to the ground is the same it was
Like I said, not ideal, but we have to adapt
I never thought I needed a bungalow when I was 50, now its a definite option, as are holiday resorts on the flat

[GetIntoEm]

Have you spoken to the club about your predicament, or just result to moaning on here about it where nobody can make a difference?

They'll likely try and help if you speak to them

[jrgbfc]

Tbf its not exactly easy to move seats now, especially if you want a few together. Especially when the changes are announced about a week before the season starts.

[dsr]

0.4 miles from the corner of the north stand nearest the cricket field to the Belvedere Road traffic lights according to Google Maps.

Thanks. And 0.2 miles using the old way past the cricket field.

General points, not addressed at you in particular, martin:

0.4 miles total distance (ie. there and back), at 2 mph, would be 12 minutes, so not quite the extra imposition it would be if you're parked at the Belevedere Road traffic lights or beyond. Slower walkers take longer, of course.

And of course, if you park further up Belevedere Rd., then it does become over half a mile extra, and there aren't so many good spaces elsewhere. Like lovebeingaclaret said, it's not particularly bad news for those who are in a wheelchair, it's not particularly bad news for those perfectly capable of walking half a mile extra, but it is bad news for those getting older or with a game leg.

Let's at least accept that these changes are bad news for a number of our fans. If any or all of us feel that on balance the bad news for some fans iss outweighed by the good news for others, then fine, that's a valid viewpoint. But let's not pretend that there is no bad news for some fans.

[lovebeingaclaret]

dsr. .. phew .. thank goodness some common sense!!!
I would really appreciate someone to tell me what benefits these new arrangements are. I have no objection to improvements i just would like to know what they are!!
It is obvious that there is a fall out with the cricket club but I wonder why it is me who has to suffer.

[NewClaret]

dsr. .. phew .. thank goodness some common sense!!!
I would really appreciate someone to tell me what benefits these new arrangements are. I have no objection to improvements i just would like to know what they are!!
It is obvious that there is a fall out with the cricket club but I wonder why it is me who has to suffer.

This is a good question and something I’ve struggled with. The rationale has been really poorly communicated.

I think it’s as simple as the club want to park the away busses on Belvedere Road, not Harry Potts way, and segregate the away fans leaving the ground. That makes a lot of sense, really, since there’s often been trouble on Harry Potts Way near the busses.

I don’t think the player arrival changes have anything to do with it.

[beddie]

This is a good question and something I’ve struggled with. The rationale has been really poorly communicated.

I think it’s as simple as the club want to park the away busses on Belvedere Road, not Harry Potts way, and segregate the away fans leaving the ground. That makes a lot of sense, really, since there’s often been trouble on Harry Potts Way near the busses.

I don’t think the player arrival changes have anything to do with it.

Would it have worked if they had put a high board / metal barrier across the road opposite the cricket club entrance to the other side of the road so no one on belvedere road walking down from the fire station end could walk any further, except down Ormerod Yard. They then park the away coaches where they used to be behind the barrier but on both sides of the road.

[morninbob]

Making the pavements abnormally wide outside the Bob lord was a waste of time, there's either nobody walking on them on non match days, or we just walk in the road on match days.

[Rick_Muller]

Maybe if you’re having problems you ask your family to move with you.

Forgive my ignorance but where about will you magic up a whole family’s worth of seats together in the stadium where this supporter will have just as good view and not get wet (which is long side lower where I was offered the chance to change to by the club)

It may have been possible to sort something out had there been enough careful planning from the club, but alas, that’s not in their vocabulary.

[martin_p]

Forgive my ignorance but where about will you magic up a whole family’s worth of seats together in the stadium where this supporter will have just as good view and not get wet (which is long side lower where I was offered the chance to change to by the club)

It may have been possible to sort something out had there been enough careful planning from the club, but alas, that’s not in their vocabulary.

The poster in question was in pain getting to his seat before the changes to his walk. You have to adapt to your own personal circumstances, we all get older, things don’t stay the same forever.