Russia Invades

[JarrowClaret]

Fingers crossed the US elections put an end to this pointless slaughter.

I know some of you will wish otherwise

As much as I agree it is pointless slaughter and it needs to stop, the US elections will not affect it I assume you are suggesting that a new president will stop sending Ukraine weapons. In this case the slaughter will go on as the Ukrainians won’t just stop fighting at that point.

The only way for the slaughter to stop is for Russia to pull out of Ukraine.

[Dark Cloud]

Russia is certainly not winning the war, although it's difficult to say Ukraine are winning it either as barring a few fairly local advances it's very much a stalemate it seems. Where Russia are losing and big time (imo) is that many of those countries around the world who viewed them as a genuine superpower to be courted and sucked up to and gotten close to, have realised there's a huge amount of smoke and mirrors about Russia. Their manufacturing and tech is inferior, their organisation outdated and chaotic, their treatment of their front line troops almost medieval and they have stumbled through 18 months of war with a relatively small time neighbour who has given them a very bloody nose. Apart from the loony asylum aka North Korea and to some extent China, Russia has lost a lot of "friends" and business partners who have seen through the illusion which was"Russian might". Ukraine and "the West" didn't want war, didn't choose war and didn't start the war, but they had absolutely no choice but to respond to the invasion. I totally agree that the sooner it's over the better for everyone, but surely the perpetrators of acts of random aggression can't be seen to benefit or things won't get better, they'll just get worse.

[yTib]

Fingers crossed the US elections put an end to this pointless slaughter.

I know some of you will wish otherwise

is that you neville?

[S0S-1971]

Do you think Russia are achieving their goal in their 3 day war?

Yes

They are on their way to achieving what they started out wanting to do and have taken large areas of land ( granted it’s taken a long time to achieve ) , surely you can see this ?


The United states giving Ukraine long range weapons will obviously escalate matters so all parties need to get around the table sharpish before we truly enter a global war .

I fully appreciate that it’s already a proxy war .

[JarrowClaret]

Yes

They are on their way to achieving what they started out wanting to do and have taken large areas of land ( granted it’s taken a long time to achieve ) , surely you can see this ?


The United states giving Ukraine long range weapons will obviously escalate matters so all parties need to get around the table sharpish before we truly enter a global war .

I fully appreciate that it’s already a proxy war .

What did they start out to do out of interest? I am lost with it as there goals have changed several times!

[S0S-1971]

Wow Marina Abromovic

Satanic

[LeadBelly]

Yes

They are on their way to achieving what they started out wanting to do and have taken large areas of land ( granted it’s taken a long time to achieve ) , surely you can see this ?


The United states giving Ukraine long range weapons will obviously escalate matters so all parties need to get around the table sharpish before we truly enter a global war .

I fully appreciate that it’s already a proxy war .

They are nowhere near achieving what they set out to do - take charge of Kiev and install a puppet regime that would basically annex Ukraine (and its resources) for the benefit of Russia.
They have hugely lost face by not being able to overcome Ukraine forces and latterly by it being shown that their weaponry is considerably inferior to western weaponry. (their arms sales and influence around the world will suffer consequently)
They've lost power on the periphery of their sphere of influence - look at Armenia now.
They've driven more countries towards NATO and made NATO stronger (more members on Russia's borders + greater arms spend commitment).
Their energy sales to Europe have been hit (and it will remain so in the medium term at least).

I doubt they'll escalate matters militarily to come into conflict with NATO given they are now well aware that NATO has superior weaponry.

Apart from all that-obviously a great move by Putin and cronies..

[NewClaret]

What did they start out to do out of interest? I am lost with it as there goals have changed several times!

I think they started out trying to take Kiev. Then when they messed that up they changed their strategic aims to be taking a relatively small part of the east. A lot of which has been won back by Ukraine.

Now they have long range weapons things are going to start getting very tricky for Russia.

[HahaYeah]

Wow Marina Abromovic

Satanic

Perfect for the role.

[Anthonini]

Wow Marina Abromovic

Satanic

mocking the people

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-hea ... 33101.html
Must be hellish.

[Anthonini]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-hea ... 33101.html
Must be hellish.

Take all my money

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-compl ... 17154.html
If this is Russia winning I'd hate to see them in defeat.

[TsarBomba]

https://x.com/thestudyofwar/status/1705 ... Gkg4Pp-4vg

ISW assesses UKR have broken through Russian lines in Verbove, which may be significant.

Unconfirmed sources stating UKR have reinforced this axis with a further 10k troops to seize the initiative.

[JarrowClaret]

Stormer HVM in Ukraine seriously nippy armoured vehicle I once had just under 100 KMH out of 1, granted downhill on a road, but you can see how quick it can be cross country in the vid as well.

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/170 ... CA2SO0u6vg

[TsarBomba]

Uk involvement in the war to potentially increase markedly with British troops deployed into Ukraine for training and the Royal Navy deployed to the Black Sea to support Ukrainian grain exports.

[HahaYeah]

Zelensky asks Marina Abramovic to be ambassador for Ukraine

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ze ... ks-marina-
abramovic-to-be-ambassador-for-ukraine/ar-AA1h6Bf8

https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/meet- ... m-satanism

Canadian parliament accidentally honours Nazi - with Zelensky and Trudeau applauding

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 18536.html

[box_of_frogs]

Stormer HVM in Ukraine seriously nippy armoured vehicle I once had just under 100 KMH out of 1, granted downhill on a road, but you can see how quick it can be cross country in the vid as well.

https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/170 ... CA2SO0u6vg

Pray the track pin doesn’t go….!

[JarrowClaret]

Pray the track pin doesn’t go….!

Ha ha indeed, to be fare this would have been 96-97 when the vehicles were new only real automotive issue we had back then was gearbox. I wasn’t at all scary at the time I was much more scared commanding a Saxon when it was wet or in the Oman, but I realised as I got more experienced what could have happened and that I should have been more scared.

[ecc]

Read an article in the French media about the growing lassitude amongst civilians who are far from the front. Odessa is enjoying an Indian summer and a considerable number of Ukrainians from other parts of the country are going to the beach. Soldiers on leave or now wounded and who can now longer fight are getting angry at the state and some of their fellow citizens. Inevitable I suppose as we're now 20 months in.

[TsarBomba]

https://x.com/andrewperpetua/status/171 ... Gkg4Pp-4vg

Staggering Russian losses over the past few days in and around Andriivka, where they are pushing particularly hard.

[TsarBomba]

Fighting around Avdiivka still rages.

The Russians are still launching utterly stupid and suicidal frontal assaults, suffering huge losses of men and material.

Losses are thought to be upwards of 2000 men and up to 58 vehicles either destroyed or abandoned.

[bfcjg]

https://uk.yahoo.com/style/russia-suffe ... 13421.html
This puts a bit more context into the region.

[LeadBelly]

Fighting around Avdiivka still rages.

The Russians are still launching utterly stupid and suicidal frontal assaults, suffering huge losses of men and material.

Losses are thought to be upwards of 2000 men and up to 58 vehicles either destroyed or abandoned.

Yes- crazy action by the Russian military around there. Evidently they did, early on, capture a useful piece of higher land (seen that described as a slag heap) but they've now been driven back from that small gain.
There are loads of videos online of many various pieces of Russian heavy equipment being destroyed by mines, arty, anti-tank rockets etc. It must add up to a huge loss of equipment and personnel.

You wonder if whoever has planned this is just too stubborn to admit it's a failure and discontinue the action and change tactics.

[Hipper]

Undersea Baltic gas pipe and telecoms cable damaged:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67138269

Ukraine use ATACMS missiles:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67135163

More on ATACMS, Abrams tanks and Russian Tow-2 artillery:

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... er-17-2023

[TsarBomba]

Thanks Hipper- been struggling to post a lot recently as I keep getting the spam message pop up.

ATACMS is really going to heat things up for the Russians down in Crimea and the Southern theatre.

[Wile E Coyote]

curious as to this post remains, yet the israeli conflict doesn't have a spot.
Im all for keeping this site free of non football if its going to be contentious, but looks a bit out of place now.

[Vegas Claret]

curious as to this post remains, yet the israeli conflict doesn't have a spot.
Im all for keeping this site free of non football if its going to be contentious, but looks a bit out of place now.

this has for the most part been a well behaved informative thread, the other was a **** show within 5 minutes and was always likely to be for obvious reasons. I'm glad this thread exists, it's very helpful

[Firthy]

this has for the most part been a well behaved informative thread, the other was a **** show within 5 minutes and was always likely to be for obvious reasons. I'm glad this thread exists, it's very helpful

Have to agree that this thread is very informative. I miss Lancasters updates. Has always been a very sensible thread probably because nearly everyone is of the same mind and there are no sides.

The Israeli conflict would never be like that because there are two totally conflicting view points and you can guarantee it would become personal between certain posters. Better off stearing clear.

[TsarBomba]

https://x.com/trenttelenko/status/17154 ... Gkg4Pp-4vg

Truly astonishing losses sustained by the Russians over the past 9 days, mainly because of their shambolic assault on Avdiivka.

218 tanks
426 BMP’s
402 artillery pieces
245 trucks
7 helicopters
4 aircraft
8970 casualties

Telenko, who has provided very reasoned analysis throughout the conflict points out that these figures may even be UNDERCOUNTED because of the limitations of OSINT.

I’ve seen figures of up to 20 helicopters destroyed in the strike at Berdyansk.

Regardless, there’s no denying the past week has been a **** show for the Russians on an epic scale, even by their standards.

[Volvoclaret]

As I've previously posted, this is a very informative thread and so well behaved compared to other threads. I would love to see it disappear if it meant the war was over but until then keep it going.
Ps
Why has Lancaster stopped posting here?

[TsarBomba]

As I've previously posted, this is a very informative thread and so well behaved compared to other threads. I would love to see it disappear if it meant the war was over but until then keep it going.
Ps
Why has Lancaster stopped posting here?

I’ve not seen him post on any thread. Sabbatical, perhaps.

[Volvoclaret]

Shame. I didn't always agree with him but it was always worth reading his threads.

[JimmyRobbo]

Absolutely, Lancaster was an excellent poster. Loved his insight on this thread and was anways sensible with his BFC comments.

[Aclaret]

Where are you Lancaster...we're missing your excellent posts.

[Quickenthetempo]

He still posts on twitter.

I won't post his name without permission but I worked it out pretty quickly when seeing it on there.

[Taffy on the wing]

https://x.com/trenttelenko/status/17154 ... Gkg4Pp-4vg

Truly astonishing losses sustained by the Russians over the past 9 days, mainly because of their shambolic assault on Avdiivka.

218 tanks
426 BMP’s
402 artillery pieces
245 trucks
7 helicopters
4 aircraft
8970 casualties

Telenko, who has provided very reasoned analysis throughout the conflict points out that these figures may even be UNDERCOUNTED because of the limitations of OSINT.

I’ve seen figures of up to 20 helicopters destroyed in the strike at Berdyansk.

Regardless, there’s no denying the past week has been a **** show for the Russians on an epic scale, even by their standards.

Staggering numbers if true......i don't see any reference to this in the "lame stream media".
Just Russia attacks Avdiivka.

[TsarBomba]

Staggering numbers if true......i don't see any reference to this in the "lame stream media".
Just Russia attacks Avdiivka.

I do find some of those numbers hard to believe.

But, there’s been 9 days of constant footage of Russian vehicles blundering through minefields time and time again.

Whatever the losses, there’s no denying this past week and a half has been eye wateringly bad for the Russians.

The UK MOD have said this morning that total Russian casualties (included wounded returning to the battlefield) stands at 240k-290k (not including Wagner/prisoner battalion).

[Nonayforever]

Olga Nazarenko, a Russian anti-war activist dies after ‘fall from height’
Another mysterious death being reported by the newspapers.
People standing up against Putin are very brave as they all must know the consequences.

[IanMcL]

Thanks to all for the updates here. You wouldn't know there was a war on Ukraine, otherwise.

[Shaggy]

Thanks to all for the updates here. You wouldn't know there was a war on Ukraine, otherwise.

Isn’t our media wonderful? I mean it’s not as if they even attempt to tell even a hint of truth providing they push the collective agenda.

[Swizzlestick]

Must have missed that dedicated section on the BBC website eh lads?

I mean, it’s the third one down on the main menu, easy done I suppose.

[Hipper]

BBC News on the internet has a tab on the war in Ukraine. It's not as informative as the Institute for The Study of War but it's OK.

I can't comment on newspapers as I don't read them.

[simonclaret]

Thanks to all for the updates here. You wouldn't know there was a war on Ukraine, otherwise.

Extensive reporting here too in its own section: https://www.theguardian.com/uk

Understandably, events elsewhere are taking the headlines.

[IanMcL]

Isn’t our media wonderful? I mean it’s not as if they even attempt to tell even a hint of truth providing they push the collective agenda.

You want to try Scottish media. The collective Unionist juggernaut ignores all the positives and reports a ferry delay, when 99% (literally) were on time. Any Scottish Gov decision they don't like, is 'SNP.'

Just like in England, the tories do a diversion topic or bury horrendous cock ups in a world calamity story.

We are all fed what they want us yo hear and see.

[Vegas Claret]

it's not getting much of a mention over here, obsessed with Israel

[bfcjg]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new ... c-31259024
Fingers crossed it's true and the start of his rapid downfall.

[TsarBomba]

Kyiv Independent- Russia launching attacks along entire Eastern front, with as many as 90 ‘contact’ points.

I can’t imagine there’ll be too much scope for large offensives from either side now it’s approaching winter?

A strategic breakthrough in the south hasn’t materialised yet for Ukraine, despite their Herculean efforts. Tokmak, which is an important logistics for Russia, still hasn’t been reached.

Russia have tried to divert Ukrainian forces away from the south by concentrating huge numbers of their own in the Lyman area. Ukraine have done the same, and tried to pin down as many Russian units in the Bakhmut area, where some gains have been made.

Sadly, both sides seem to be cancelling each other out. Ukraine has the quality but not the quantity, and Russia vice versa. A freeze of the lines for 6 months will only help the Russians dig in further.

[Colburn_Claret]

You want to try Scottish media. The collective Unionist juggernaut ignores all the positives and reports a ferry delay, when 99% (literally) were on time. Any Scottish Gov decision they don't like, is 'SNP.'

Just like in England, the tories do a diversion topic or bury horrendous cock ups in a world calamity story.

We are all fed what they want us yo hear and see.

Which is all the more reason, as someone said above, to stop reading them.
I haven't read a newspaper since Brexit, the biased views the press reported, on both sides of the debate, finished them for me.
Media should just report the news, then leave everyone to make their own mind up. Setting an agenda, then backing it up with half truths and distortions, treats us all like sheep.

[AlargeClaret]

With a possible long autumn /winter stalemate in the offing you’d sincerely hope that some sort of peace deal would come to the fore, especially with the American sabre rattling /Middle East issues .

The latest RUS offensive is on all fronts but little progress . The Avdiivka push is a real “Bakhmut-esque” meat assault with v high losses , though the official UKR figures seem almost as daft as the daily RUS figures . Bearing in mind RUS are trying to encircle the UKR’s here in a hellishly well defended / mined area ( it’s the since 2014 original “war zone” )

UKR also made some bridgeheads on the “ Russian side” of Kherson over the river and this could mean RUS diverting serious forces here .

US funding is still very strong and along with the long range ATACMS systems and superb US/UK satellite tech ,UKR just may be able to weaken RUS logistically and materially enough
to move on Crimea in the medium term . Though as both Hitler and Napoleon found out ,RUS can sacrifice men and arms of poor quality like confetti to their end goals .