Tommy Robinson

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:10 pm

burnleymik wrote:Exactly. Which is not what the media came forward with. They said he pleaded guilty. The court documents also show contempt has several different meanings and he wasn't told exactly how he was in contempt. He had removed the video they told him to. It was a kangaroo court and that is why it was quashed. He is still guilty of the original charge at the other location though.

I think perhaps MSM have used the term”guilty” as a shorthand for “accepting that his behaviour was contemptuous of the authority of her Majesty’s Court and more specifically the Orders made by His Honour Judge... etc etc” it would just take up too much space to have to continually explain procedures.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:18 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:I think perhaps MSM have used the term”guilty” as a shorthand for “accepting that his behaviour was contemptuous of the authority of her Majesty’s Court and more specifically the Orders made by His Honour Judge... etc etc” it would just take up too much space to have to continually explain procedures.

Not that Robinson supporters would understand all that anyway.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:34 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:I think perhaps MSM have used the term”guilty” as a shorthand for “accepting that his behaviour was contemptuous of the authority of her Majesty’s Court and more specifically the Orders made by His Honour Judge... etc etc” it would just take up too much space to have to continually explain procedures.

Did he? As you said in an earlier post, we don't even know if he did that. His counsel may have done that on his behalf and considering that counsel had little knowledge of the law surrounding contempt, he may not have realised the severity of the punishment that would be handed down.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 pm

burnleymik wrote:Did he? As you said in an earlier post, we don't even know if he did that. His counsel may have done that on his behalf and considering that counsel had little knowledge of the law surrounding contempt, he may not have realised the severity of the punishment that would be handed down.

So Robinson's lawyers didn't know the law surrounding contempt, and neither did the judge. But Burnleymik knows.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:41 pm

Just to be clear. Contempt of court, which Robinson pleaded guilty to and was given a suspended prison sentence for, IS a crime. No matter what bubble-headed morons on the internet might say.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:30 pm

Hard to understand this-
He never said he was guilty in court, when he was not asked whether he was guilty or not guilty.

Can we have list of the other things he didn’t answer, to questions he would not have been asked?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:41 pm

Can make it quite simple.

British media said he pleaded guilty. Court documents prove he never pleaded guilty.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:50 pm

burnleymik wrote:Can make it quite simple.

British media said he pleaded guilty. Court documents prove he never pleaded guilty.

And yet you refuse to produce these court documents.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:01 pm

burnleymik wrote:Did he? As you said in an earlier post, we don't even know if he did that. His counsel may have done that on his behalf and considering that counsel had little knowledge of the law surrounding contempt, he may not have realised the severity of the punishment that would be handed down.

And he's only just noticed that his lawyers accidentally pleaded guilty? You'd have thought he'd have mentioned it during the hearing.

Incidentally, has anyone managed to dig out anything contemporaneous from 2005 or so of him exposing grooming gangs, drug dealers, etc Claretmoffit seems to be struggling with it.

I'm not saying it isn't true but not even the Sun seems to believe that was the case:

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:31 pm

I agree some people treat him as a hero which he isn't, but he has proven his point on many issues, mainly if you criticise Islam you feel the wrath of both the establishment and the media.

No religion or ideology should be above criticism or questioning.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:33 pm

burnleymik wrote:No religion or ideology should be above criticism or questioning.

Why doesn't the Vatican come in for the same criticism when covering up child abuse for decades?

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm

Spijed wrote:Why doesn't the Vatican come in for the same criticism when covering up child abuse for decades?

What about, what about

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:38 pm

Spijed wrote:Why doesn't the Vatican come in for the same criticism when covering up child abuse for decades?

It did and does, as far as I am aware. They have been hammered for it over the years and rightly so.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:47 pm

burnleymik wrote:Did he? As you said in an earlier post, we don't even know if he did that. His counsel may have done that on his behalf and considering that counsel had little knowledge of the law surrounding contempt, he may not have realised the severity of the punishment that would be handed down.

We do know what was said in Court because it is recorded and there’s a Stenographer, that’s how the appealCort know what was said.
Robinson’s Counsel would have known what they were doing and the instructions they received- they will be part of the appeal

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:56 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:We do know what was said in Court because it is recorded and there’s a Stenographer, that’s how the appealCort know what was said.
Robinson’s Counsel would have known what they were doing and the instructions they received- they will be part of the appeal

In his summary, the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales confirmed that the defendant didn't know and wasn't told exactly what the contempt was in regards to. How could he plead guilty if he didn't know exactly what he was accused of?

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:52 pm

BurnleyFC wrote:I’m not taking anything as gospel. I’m asking a genuine question.

Didn’t you read the first sentence?

I owe you an apology. When I posted this morning, I thought I was replying to burnleymik, for some reason.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:00 pm

burnleymik wrote:I agree some people treat him as a hero which he isn't, but he has proven his point on many issues, mainly if you criticise Islam you feel the wrath of both the establishment and the media.

No religion or ideology should be above criticism or questioning.

Yeah, the British media hate any criticism of Islam and Muslims, don't they? You really should try getting your information from somewhere other than the EDL's YouTube channel.

(if pictures are still not working, just Google "Islamophobia UK media" and click on images to see what I tried to post)

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:09 pm

You mean "Asian" grooming gangs?

That was the whole point.....

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:18 pm

burnleymik wrote:You mean "Asian" grooming gangs?

That was the whole point.....

If this is a repy to me, I have no idea what you're talking about.

On the whole "Islam is not a race" argument, which I'm sure Yaxley-Lennon's acolytes are very fond of, I found it interesting that on the complaint form he filled in (where he hilariously claimed that not having a TV was "mental torture"), he ticked the box saying "this complaint as a racial aspect". Given the only other part of the complaint was being moved to a prison with a larger muslim population, it seems that Yaxley-Lennon, at least, considers muslims to be a different race.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:21 pm

It’s an exciting day in the transfer window and you’re still wasting time on this vile toilet bowl of a man!

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:30 pm

Greenmile wrote:If this is a repy to me, I have no idea what you're talking about.

On the whole "Islam is not a race" argument, which I'm sure Yaxley-Lennon's acolytes are very fond of, I found it interesting that on the complaint form he filled in (where he hilariously claimed that not having a TV was "mental torture"), he ticked the box saying "this complaint as a racial aspect". Given the only other part of the complaint was being moved to a prison with a larger muslim population, it seems that Yaxley-Lennon, at least, considers muslims to be a different race.

Again you miss the point. The huge majority of grooming gangs were Pakistani men. The media would not portray that fact for the same reason the issue was never dealt with in the first place. For fear of being labelled Islamaphobic.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:31 pm

Pearcey wrote:It’s an exciting day in the transfer window and you’re still wasting time on this

To be fair you have a point.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:51 pm

...has he signed yet...?

andyh · Post by **andyh** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:05 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:...has he signed yet...?

Swapdeal for Walters

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:11 pm

Greenmile wrote:Yeah, the British media hate any criticism of Islam and Muslims, don't they? You really should try getting your information from somewhere other than the EDL's YouTube channel.

(if pictures are still not working, just Google "Islamophobia UK media" and click on images to see what I tried to post)

Wow that's a whole lot of serious crime caused by one tiny minority.

Also a good number of those headlines are positive or totally unrelated.

What college dorm activist made that hunk of ****?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:32 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Wow that's a whole lot of serious crime caused by one tiny minority.

Also a good number of those headlines are positive or totally unrelated.

What college dorm activist made that hunk of ****?

Possibly. Or more likely not all of them are related to crimes. But there's literally no way to tell either way.

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:53 pm

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Wow that's a whole lot of serious crime caused by one tiny minority.

Also a good number of those headlines are positive or totally unrelated.

What college dorm activist made that hunk of ****?

It's a Google image search. I explained that. I just thought it might be a simple way to get a single picture of a bunch of the headlines that sprung to mind when I heard the opinion that the UK media are somehow averse to criticising Islam (and test whether images are working on the board yet).

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:56 pm

burnleymik wrote:Again you miss the point. The huge majority of grooming gangs were Pakistani men. The media would not portray that fact for the same reason the issue was never dealt with in the first place. For fear of being labelled Islamaphobic.

When and why did this media omerta change? or are you saying they still won't portray that fact?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:57 pm

burnleymik wrote:You are the problem.

How so?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:59 pm

Greenmile wrote:It's a Google image search. I explained that. I just thought it might be a simple way to get a single picture of a bunch of the headlines that sprung to mind when I heard the opinion that the UK media are somehow averse to criticising Islam (and test whether images are working on the board yet).

Aye, it's a well known fact that publications such as 'The Sun' and 'Daily Mail' are champions of Islam and these Muslims they have now

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:15 pm

If it wasn’t for tommy the grooming would still be going on a massive scale, he was the person in my view who put the issue in public spotlight prior to that the authorities had the vision of stevie wonder, it’s very probable they did know but because their feared of being dubbed a racist & having sinister agendas, it all got brushed under the carpet until that many victims emerged it became impossible to ignore.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:16 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:If it wasn’t for tommy the grooming would still be going on a massive scale, he was the person in my view who put the issue in public spotlight prior to that the authorities had the vision of stevie wonder, it’s very probable they did know but because their feared of being dubbed a racist & having sinister agendas, it all got brushed under the carpet until that many victims emerged it became impossible to ignore.

Saint Tommy.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:22 pm

burnleymik wrote:Again you miss the point. The huge majority of grooming gangs were Pakistani men. The media would not portray that fact for the same reason the issue was never dealt with in the first place. For fear of being labelled Islamaphobic.

The vast majority of sex offenders are male. That is the only salient point you can take out of the stats around sex offences. Otherwise you’ll find sex offenders come from all races and religions.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:41 pm

AndrewJB wrote:The vast majority of sex offenders are male. That is the only salient point you can take out of the stats around sex offences. Otherwise you’ll find sex offenders come from all races and religions.

I absolutely agree they do come from all races and religions, but it still doesn't change the fact that these men got away with as much as they did because race/religion played a big part.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:42 pm

fidelcastro wrote:How so?

I quoted the reason why.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:46 pm

burnleymik wrote:but it still doesn't change the fact that these men got away with as much as they did because race/religion played a big part.

Well that's no different from the Catholic church is it?

You say Tommy Robinson stands up to these gangs yet I bet he wouldn't dare stand up to the Catholic church, because of the consequences.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:03 pm

burnleymik wrote:I absolutely agree they do come from all races and religions, but it still doesn't change the fact that these men got away with as much as they did because race/religion played a big part.

It was a failure of the system, and no different than that which let other people like Jimmy Saville get away. At least these people have been put away, despite the fact the idiot Robinson nearly caused the trial to collapse.

And don’t try to tell me Robinson was the only person to get the story into the spotlight. He jumped on an anti Muslim bandwagon and nothing more.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:08 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:If it wasn’t for tommy the grooming would still be going on a massive scale, he was the person in my view who put the issue in public spotlight prior to that the authorities had the vision of stevie wonder, it’s very probable they did know but because their feared of being dubbed a racist & having sinister agendas, it all got brushed under the carpet until that many victims emerged it became impossible to ignore.

Excellent, it sounds like you'll be able to provide the evidence to back this up. Everybody else seems to be struggling when I've asked.

ClaretMoffitt · Post by **ClaretMoffitt** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:34 pm

Greenmile wrote:It's a Google image search. I explained that. I just thought it might be a simple way to get a single picture of a bunch of the headlines that sprung to mind when I heard the opinion that the UK media are somehow averse to criticising Islam (and test whether images are working on the board yet).

Oh did you just search a keyword and screenshot the result? My bad, I thought it was a compilation image made by someone with a specific purpose.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:42 pm

aggi wrote:Excellent, it sounds like you'll be able to provide the evidence to back this up. Everybody else seems to be struggling when I've asked.

Its stopped or at least declining telford, Keighley & Rotherham ect, Tommy has helped exposing it & launched it into the public arena he's been a major contributing factor some would credit him with singlehandedly driving it. If that's not evidence I'm not sure what is, or perhaps you think grooming is on the increase?
Some people for some strange reason seem hellbent on critising the fella without even acknowledging all the good that he does,

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:43 pm

Spijed wrote:Well that's no different from the Catholic church is it?

You say Tommy Robinson stands up to these gangs yet I bet he wouldn't dare stand up to the Catholic church, because of the consequences.

I disagree. I think you could openly criticise the catholic church and their covering up of peadophilia without fear of consequence.

I also don't say he stands upto these gangs. I think he is the only one prepared to point out the hypocrisy because no one else dares through fear. The people with concerns literally only have him to turn to right now. If Islam could be openly and honestly discussed, including criticism, then I genuinely don't think people like Tommy would even exist.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:48 pm

AndrewJB wrote:It was a failure of the system, and no different than that which let other people like Jimmy Saville get away. At least these people have been put away, despite the fact the idiot Robinson nearly caused the trial to collapse.

And don’t try to tell me Robinson was the only person to get the story into the spotlight. He jumped on an anti Muslim bandwagon and nothing more.

He opposes Islam, so of course he did. My concern is that he should be allowed to criticise Islam and people who are hiding behind their religion to commit crimes, exactly the same as the catholic priests did. Why should anyone, regardless of their religion, not be treated equally or their crimes ignored for fear of being labelled? Ironically, it's the white establishment who should take a lot of the blame, it's their cowardice that has lead us down this path.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:54 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:Its stopped or at least declining telford, Keighley & Rotherham ect, Tommy has helped exposing it & launched it into the public arena he's been a major contributing factor some would credit him with singlehandedly driving it. If that's not evidence I'm not sure what is, or perhaps you think grooming is on the increase?
Some people for some strange reason seem hellbent on critising the fella without even acknowledging all the good that he does,

OK, now we're getting somewhere. I mean this isn't evidence at all, there are so many other factors other than some bloke that no-one had heard of possibly talking about it, but it sounds like you might soon be able to find some. After all, if he was singlehandedly driving it there must be loads out there.

I've been asking for a while about cold hard facts to prove all the good he does but so far I've not been provided with any. (I'm assuming you're not referring to the assault charges and so on here.)

Greenmile · Post by **Greenmile** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:55 pm

burnleymik wrote:I disagree. I think you could openly criticise the catholic church and their covering up of peadophilia without fear of consequence.

I also don't say he stands upto these gangs. I think he is the only one prepared to point out the hypocrisy because no one else dares through fear. The people with concerns literally only have him to turn to right now. If Islam could be openly and honestly discussed, including criticism, then I genuinely don't think people like Tommy would even exist.

This idea that Islam is beyond criticism is all in your head though. I reckon I could find five UK media stories (or about 100 posts on here) slating Islam (rightly or wrongly) for every one you can find slating Catholicism. For example, along with Princess Diana, benefit scroungers and the weather, it’s the only thing the Express seems to write about, but it hasn’t been closed down.

What isn’t acceptable is when honest criticism of Islam turns into racism, and sadly Yaxley-Lennon’s EDL followers cross that line a little too often for any open and honest discussion with them to be worthwhile.

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:06 pm

aggi wrote:OK, now we're getting somewhere. I mean this isn't evidence at all, there are so many other factors other than some bloke that no-one had heard of possibly talking about it, but it sounds like you might soon be able to find some. After all, if he was singlehandedly driving it there must be loads out there.

I've been asking for a while about cold hard facts to prove all the good he does but so far I've not been provided with any. (I'm assuming you're not referring to the assault charges and so on here.)

“No-one has heard of” he’s regularly featured all over mainstream tabloids mostly reflecting a negative slant of his character & his blogs/videos are all over youtube! He’s possibly the strongest critic & the face of it, the actual imprisonment recently has catapulted him back onto the scene stronger than ever before & he's actually gathered more supporters than ever you could argue before that was slowly dwindling, it’s been 1 hell of mind blowing PR stunt to his advantage.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:13 pm

Greenmile wrote:This idea that Islam is beyond criticism is all in your head though. I reckon I could find five UK media stories (or about 100 posts on here) slating Islam (rightly or wrongly) for every one you can find slating Catholicism. For example, along with Princess Diana, benefit scroungers and the weather, it’s the only thing the Express seems to write about, but it hasn’t been closed down.

What isn’t acceptable is when honest criticism of Islam turns into racism, and sadly Yaxley-Lennon’s EDL followers cross that line a little too often for any open and honest discussion with them to be worthwhile.

I agree with the last part, it isn't acceptable when it turns racist, but I completely disagree with the first. You find me stories in the MSM that openly criticise Islam, the fact you think you could only find about 5 says enough. Look at what happens when you do.. Charlie Hebdo. Okay that is the extreme, but criticising Islam is now called Islamaphobia, this is why open and honest discussion, again including criticism, cannot be had and why it drives opinions underground.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:21 pm

He’s not saying he can only find about five. Read his post again.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:25 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:He’s not saying he can only find about five. Read his post again.

When has Burnleymik ever characterised what someone else has said accurately though? I reckon I wouldn't be able to find 5 examples of times when he hasn't wilfully misrepresented someones argument in order to criticise it.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:26 pm

There’s certainly something of the Ringo about him.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:31 pm

Jakubclaret wrote:“No-one has heard of” he’s regularly featured all over mainstream tabloids mostly reflecting a negative slant of his character & his blogs/videos are all over youtube! He’s possibly the strongest critic & the face of it, the actual imprisonment recently has catapulted him back onto the scene stronger than ever before & he's actually gathered more supporters than ever you could argue before that was slowly dwindling, it’s been 1 hell of mind blowing PR stunt to his advantage.

No-one had heard of him when the child abuse was happening, which makes me wonder how instrumental he was in stopping it, which makes me suspect why everyone is struggling with the contemporaneous evidence.