Man City are just as bad when it comes to spending on players and disregarding FFP.cblantfanclub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 amReal Madrid president Florentino Perez says clubs will not be able to sign Paris St-Germain and France striker Kylian Mbappe, 22, or Borussia Dortmund and Norway forward Erling Braut Haaland, 20, without the European Super League. (El Larguero, via Goal).
I can't believe this man sometimes. So he wants and justifies a super league in order to have more money to inflate the price of football to ridiculous levels and allow real Madrid to buy players at stupid prices. Is he saying RM should be able to buy the best players at any cost and he'll achieve that finance by any means? Does he believe football revolves around RM ? - the sooner they go bust the better.
It's a good thing if football can't afford higher prices and he's so stupid he can't see it. I'm beginning to really dislike the whole RM setup.
cblantfanclub wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:18 amReal Madrid president Florentino Perez says clubs will not be able to sign Paris St-Germain and France striker Kylian Mbappe, 22, or Borussia Dortmund and Norway forward Erling Braut Haaland, 20, without the European Super League. (El Larguero, via Goal).
I can't believe this man sometimes. So he wants and justifies a super league in order to have more money to inflate the price of football to ridiculous levels and allow real Madrid to buy players at stupid prices. Is he saying RM should be able to buy the best players at any cost and he'll achieve that finance by any means? Does he believe football revolves around RM ? - the sooner they go bust the better.
It's a good thing if football can't afford higher prices and he's so stupid he can't see it. I'm beginning to really dislike the whole RM setup.
After the Anglo-Scottish Celtic debacle and what 150,000 Rangers fans did in Manchester (2009)
Quite agree about Barca, I visited Camp Nou many times in the nineties and they were always so proud that they unlike anyone else did not spoil their shirts with sponsors, paid their way, got the worlds best talent, while remaining in profit. When their new chairman came in a said we are doing our bit for the world with free sponsorship for UNICEF most recognised it was a ploy that signalled the end of an era. Next time I was in Barca I bought an Espanyol shirt and stopped following Barca... the change at Barca was obvious from a couple of issues of La Marca and I dirtied the whole ethos of the club.gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 amIt is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid. They buy the latest toy and then toss it by the wayside as soon as something better comes along. The only difference now is that this kid has run out of money and instead of standing on its own 2 feet in the world, they manipulate to keep the gravy train running.
I can well see a desire for football authorities to try to brush this away as it did not happen. They have done it many many times before. It is up to the fans to keep the pressure for severe punishments of the six and to make sure OUR football is protected. I still think a ban from European competition and relegations in their domestic leagues would be fitting... but the will of the clubs will soon drain on the back of the mighty dollar as it always does... they will scuttle back into their holes and start the process again in making this palatable... but to no different effect, just like they always do.RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:45 amManchester City boss Pep Guardiola said the failed ESL was a "closed chapter" after his side beat Aston Villa (Source BBC)
Dream on Pep. Football fans have long memories
Barcelona are a joke. A nonsense club. Didn’t do much before Ronaldinho turned up. Loaded it over Real Madrid over the past 15 years or so with the way they won with youth products. Look at them now, splashing cash on gash. I don’t like Real Madrid but at least they have a rich history of being winners. It’s like West Ham winning a few times and thinking they’re Manchester United.gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 amIt is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid. They buy the latest toy and then toss it by the wayside as soon as something better comes along. The only difference now is that this kid has run out of money and instead of standing on its own 2 feet in the world, they manipulate to keep the gravy train running.
That is exactly what will happen and their argument will be...elwaclaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:40 pmI can well see a desire for football authorities to try to brush this away as it did not happen.
The Government would have little problem extending legislation to the voting rights to encompass the Football League clubs as interested parties. They have as much if not more reason to be angry than the Premier League clubs...Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pmThere is a more fundamental issue as to why the 6 cannot be kicked out of the League (possibly a reason why there had to be 6, it was a safety measure)
https://twitter.com/LawTop20/status/1385100593447022592
The obvious one would be the TV companies suing for not having the product they signed up tooelwaclaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:33 pmThe Government would have little problem extending legislation to the voting rights to encompass the Football League clubs as interested parties. They have as much if not more reason to be angry than the Premier League clubs...
I see no reason to not treat the big six as they would any member acting without of the spirit of the wider organisation... Marseilles, Rangers...
Does the (re)distribution of TV rights need 3/4 majority as well?Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:19 pmThere is a more fundamental issue as to why the 6 cannot be kicked out of the League (possibly a reason why there had to be 6, it was a safety measure)
https://twitter.com/LawTop20/status/1385100593447022592
I think that is the smoke being blown by opponents of punishment. Are you sure there is reference to the six clubs in broadcasting rights of just the leagues they are currently employed in? If the clubs are relegated the League does not change, it may hurt short term but surely would serve to both democratise decision making and boost the lower leagues attendances... benefiting those struggling most with genuine rather self generated financial peril.Chester Perry wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:40 pmThe obvious one would be the TV companies suing for not having the product they signed up too
If so that would be the TV companies themselves, and I understand that such conversations have been had. They sign up because of the effective permanence of these clubs in the league while acknowledging that 1 or 2 may fall subject to relegation as a result of their own incompetence, not losing all 6 in one go and particularly the American owned trio that drive so much of the volume of interestelwaclaret wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:54 pmI think that is the smoke being blown by opponents of punishment. Are you sure there is reference to the six clubs in broadcasting rights of just the leagues they are currently employed in? If the clubs are relegated the League does not change, it may hurt short term but surely would serve to both democratise decision making and boost the lower leagues attendances... benefiting those struggling most with genuine rather self generated financial peril.
that kind of points to the answer to what the punishment will need to be does it not?
hence
andChester Perry wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:31 pmThe most appropriate punishment for these clubs is not to give them any representative position on any executive in the game for a very extended period. let them see how it feels to be on the receiving end of others desires for decades and feel what the sense of powerlessness is like
Chester Perry wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:50 pmI have been thinking about this a bit more amid calls for massive points deductions and even making them start of the bottom of the league again. Many will argue that unduly punishes players and fans (and to some extent it is true - though a rangers style romp through the leagues would have the dual benefit of spreading a bit of wealth in the short term and educating the boardroom as the to traditional contexts of the game.
The way to hurt the owners and not the players or the fans is along the lines I suggested yesterday, added to this I would rollback a number of initiatives these clubs have driven through, that has caused disparity of the game - how many of you are aware that only 40 years ago all tv revenues in the league were shared equally across the 92 - I am not advocating that, things have moved on too much.
In the Premier leagues I would like to see:
the International income return to equal share (this would automatically increase the share to the EFL)
the number of basic games for TV share distribution increase to 19 (this again would automatically increase the share to the EFL)
The share of Premier League central revenue shared with the EFL be guaranteed as a minimum of 20% the original offer the Premier League made in 1992 (and that should not be targeted as a maximum by scheming executives)
These rules should be enshrined in perpetuity the same as the FA's golden share, the PFA's 5% share of domestic income and participation in the FA Cup and League Cup
At UEFA I would like to see
- the abolishment of Coefficient payments to qualifiers - the distortion in revenues it provides is beyond belief!
- the abolishment of the changes ratified on Monday for the Champions League post 2024 - it damages leagues and the fans have made it clear the like Super League they do not want it
- automatic qualification to the Champions League group stage for the to 12 ranked UEFA nations in club football based on UEFA competition coefficients (it is currently the top 7)
- a greater and more Equitable distribution of UEFA monies across the three UEFA club competitions say Champions League 60% (currently 80%) Europa League 25% (currently 20%) and the Europa Conference which starts next year 15% (currently nothing though was to come from the Europa Leagues pot not the Champions League pot
These should see fairer distributions across the game and ease some of the distortions between success and failures. There also needs to be a rethink of financial regulations as it is evident that they have only worked successfully in part.
He was invited to Downing Street four days ago but to discuss the return of fans and of course not the Super League. Sure it wasn’t even mentioned!Burnley Ace wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:52 amEd Woodward’s PR is in overdrive, rather than a main instigator it turns out he resigned in protest!!
The "more than a club" stuff is a sly nod to Spanish/Catalonian sectarianism.gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:28 amIt is nothing new with RM, they have acted like this for years. I used to really admire Barcelona as they prided themselves of being Mes Que Un Club (More than a club) but in the last 10 years they have been just as bad. RM are like a spoilt kid.
It hasn’t been mentioned to any of the other 14 in their various meetings either, though that’s perhaps why the Government reacted so quickly?Steve-Harpers-perm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:11 amHe was invited to Downing Street four days ago but to discuss the return of fans and of course not the Super League. Sure it wasn’t even mentioned!
Anything European wide is difficult because of EU legislation re workers rights etc and Max ticket prices would be set at a London level, not a Burnley level.NewClaret wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:05 ama Europe-wide salary/spending cap, with set sanctions (i.e. losing CL places, domestic points deductions) for those that break these rules. Just introducing this in the PL would be a disaster because players would follow the money.
and following the above, restrictions on the prices of match tickets. I think we're pretty good on that front but some of the London clubs are scandalous.
It would be interesting to see where else these 'World class' players would go. The Spanish and Italian clubs are mired in debt - of their own making.CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:40 amReading a lot in the press this morning about what’s wrong with English football but the fact remains that our league has always been far more evenly shared than other major leagues. The Spanish league has always been ridiculous, in Germany Bayern have dominated since 1969 and though France is closest to us, teams have still tended to have a decade of dominance, PSG now, Lyon and Marseille in the past.
Here, Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have won a dozen or more, but everyone else has shared it out quite nicely. Even Spurs only have the same titles as the mighty Clarets
We just have to ensure 5 things:
1. Competition at the top of the Premier League - a salary cap of, say, £150k per week would do that. The excitement would offset the loss of a few world class players.
2. Bottom of the Premier League able to compete - this happens now. Our results against the “big six” show that.
3. Fair distribution to lower leagues - that could be enshrined in legislation. Clearly more needed.
4. Limits on commercial “flying solo” where huge clubs do their own thing in the far East etc - legislation could also force clubs to act as one English league system in some senses, so things like selling your own live streams would never be allowed to take off.
5. Protection of the heritage of our sport including each town having a viable club - legislation could lock in 50%+1 but there would still be self interest (Man Utd fans voting to expand commercially, for example), so I’m not sure this would give enough safeguards. I’d like to see what the government review comes up with. A kind of fan ownership of the whole league structure would work better rather each club still batting for themself.
Whatever happens though, it’s hard to see ownership of the big six being as attractive as now, unless it’s state ownership for propaganda, not profit, purposes (something else I would ban).
That would just allow them to fix their financial troubles exacerbated by the pandemic, and generate a cash pile that they would unleash to devastating effect as the ban ends. In the meantime the rest of the game would lose the liquidity these clubs pour into the market place every year that is then swilled around the game via the transfer market (you may have noticed that a lot of clubs rely on the transfer market for survival, or as a key element of their business strategy). Thus the big clubs win again, as they quickly rejuvenate while the rest become financially weakermatucana wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:40 amI suggest a points deduction would be harsh on the fans who brought about the demise of this plan. Instead I would impose a three year inward transfer and loan ban, but not on outward movements so as not to jeopardise employment law. To be imposed immediately. This would see those squads become weaker and stale along with significant diminished values. Some players would want to leave but I suspect would also want to remain in the PL albeit for a lower team and on lower wages. They could not be replaced for three years from the date of the ban by the six protagonists.
I have seen varying reports that the clubs who have announced their intention to withdraw could be subject to exit fees with the largest figures quoted being around Euro 150m each, I have yet to see them substantiated though, it is generally acknowledged that some form of cost is attached to the process though.tiger76 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:11 pmPerez standing his ground and insisting the 12 can not leave the ESL. Now either he's deluded or desperate or possibly both, or he really does have legally binding contracts that they signed up too, in which case if they pull out would he then try and sue for compensation, whatever happens it could get messy, and as usual in these situations the only winners will be the lawyers.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56873448
While I don't think Citeh are exempt from criticism, I don't think its right to stop an owner from spending on his club. The difference being, anything above and beyond the clubs means has to be a gift. No loans, or dodgy share schemes that could burden the club at a later date, just no strings attached gifts.
as long as that gift does not get the club and it's fans dependent on it to a level they never grow revenues to become self sustaining, which is the more or less realised ambition at Chelsea and Man City, the targeted ambition of Aston Villa, Everton, Leeds, Crystal Palace, Sheffield United, Wolves, Brighton, Southampton, Fulham, West Brom, Leicester, West Ham in the Premier League and the failed ambition at Blackburn (under the last 2 owners), Bolton and around 80% of the EFL and even more in the National LeagueColburn_Claret wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:22 pmWhile I don't think Citeh are exempt from criticism, I don't think its right to stop an owner from spending on his club. The difference being, anything above and beyond the clubs means has to be a gift. No loans, or dodgy share schemes that could burden the club at a later date, just no strings attached gifts.
I think you will like thisWile E Coyote wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:03 pmdoubt there will be adequate punitive measures any time soon for the clubs involved.
It does seem off though that fans are taking the high ground when the very essence of the modern game has been corrupt and at the mercy of multi millionaires for a long time. Nobody seemed to bother about the foreign involvement of giant corporate entities as long as they could bankroll huge wages and ludicrous transfer fees. No one cared much about the lesser lights in the leagues if they couldnt hold their own financially. But all of a sudden its become the peoples game again. what nonsense.
rovers bought the title, and they were on their knees before that. city and the rest are on other planets as far as finance is concerned. there has been no equity for many a long year. its all been about wages, shafting the fans, agents fees and double dealing. it sounds this week as if the whole footballing world has been tarnished by a new breed of owner previously unheard of. the fans that are shouting for the resignations know full well they can only maintain their current status if similarly wealthy people step in to fill the void. It has become a shambolic pantomime.The powers that be are unlikely to take any action that will appease the honest supporters, and we all know it.
The full Ceferin Interview is hereCommy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:59 amNice response.
https://twitter.com/BarcaTimes/status/1 ... 0967748611
