Dyche ------->Palace

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:08 pm

KRBFC wrote:Where did I say SD or anyone at the club should come out and make a statement? You're wittering as usual. You have typed a big long post about something I never said, infact I agree they don't need to come out and make a comment because seemingly there is nothing to report right now.

Sorry. I meant to specifically address the idea of ultimatums/deadlines, too. They're equally silly as making spurious media statements, as they involve cutting of your nose to spite your face, in relation to the sort of thing that is common place in football. Managers do get tapped up, they do have conversations with other clubs, they do try and leverage their position to get bigger budgets and salaries where they are. That's just the way it is. Trying to force the issue and potentially backing yourself into a corner where you have to sack the most successful manager in the club's recent history is absolutely ludicrous.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 pm

claretspice wrote:Sorry. I meant to specifically address the idea of ultimatums/deadlines, too. They're equally silly as making spurious media statements, as they involve cutting of your nose to spite your face, in relation to the sort of thing that is common place in football. Managers do get tapped up, they do have conversations with other clubs, they do try and leverage their position to get bigger budgets and salaries where they are. That's just the way it is. Trying to force the issue and potentially backing yourself into a corner where you have to sack the most successful manager in the club's recent history is absolutely ludicrous.

IF he's looking to leave it isn't ludicrous. Why do we want a manager who doesn't want to be here? Why do we want to waste time by waiting for him to leave?

Yet again I have put the keyword in capitals.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Personally I cannot imagine the representatives of a PL football club casually discussing their transfer budget with a candidate for their manager's position over a coffee. i'm sure that IF budgets have been discussed it's gone beyond a preliminary interview.

I think you might be surprised. Remember Owen Coyle's claim that Paul Jewell laughed when he told him his transfer budget?

I wouldn't expect huge detail to be discussed, but one of Dyche's first question in any discussion, however preliminary or informal, is going to be - can you give me the funds I think I need to put my stamp on this team and rebalance Palace's squad so that I'm not swapping one relegation scrap for another. That will involve very broad discussions about headroom on wages, transfer fees etc. Not that these things tend to be completely secret in football in the first place.

In football, given that a generous wage is a given and football managers at the top end tend to be fairly well set up for life, I'd expect it to be equivalent to the "will you match my current salary" question that most of us would ask before agreeing to a more formal interview. It might even be the sort of question that is scoped out via an agent and intermediary.

I think we overestimate the formality of these things. Football players are a bit different, because the registration of a player remains a valuable, tradable asset. That's why there are still (some) rules around the conduct of transfers, etc. Managers are totally different. They're like any other rare, top end professional.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:17 pm

You struggle don't you krbfc ?

No matter who our manager is now or anytime in the future, we would struggle to keep him if some clubs came along and offered him the job. Somebody being tempted by a job isn't the same as someone who doesn't want to be here. Before you destroy a few more keys on your keyboard I am not putting Palace in that category but you seem to want a manager who would never move on. Would you prefer if we had a poor manager and nobody wanted him at any stage and in return we achieved nothing ?

You have spent the last 12 months crying about Dyche being here and now you are crying that he hasn't left. Should we sack Keane for wanting to move on ? Olympiakos are linked with Defour maybe we tell them make a bid or move on.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm

KRBFC wrote:IF he's looking to leave it isn't ludicrous. Why do we want a manager who doesn't want to be here? Why do we want to waste time by waiting for him to leave?

Yet again I have put the keyword in capitals.

Because even IF (there you go) he is exploring the possibility of leaving, it doesn't mean that he is desperate to leave, or that he doesn't want to be here. As I explained in the context of why making a media statement is a bad idea, even if he is relatively happy at Burnley, I'd still expect him to explore whether he might be even happier elsewhere, or whether that opportunity can help him be even happier at Burnley. He's a professional who cares more about his career than he does about Burnley football club, as they all are.

You're creating a binary, black and white divide on something that has lots of shades of grey.

Sarf · Post by **Sarf** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:22 pm

KRBFC wrote:The bottom line is, I want a resolution one way or another. Basically I want CP to announce their new manager ASAP so we can move on with an exciting transfer window, with or without Dyche.

Mate, same.

(From my viewpoint though preferably without).

I have a question for all of you, is there absolutely any truth in a £1m buyout for Dyche? (reported in the Mirror.

If Dyche is on a rolling contract, could this not just be all a game by his agent to get him a new contract?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:26 pm

claretdom wrote:You struggle don't you krbfc ?

No matter who our manager is now or anytime in the future, we would struggle to keep him if some clubs came along and offered him the job. Somebody being tempted by a job isn't the same as someone who doesn't want to be here. Before you destroy a few more keys on your keyboard I am not putting Palace in that category but you seem to want a manager who would never move on. Would you prefer if we had a poor manager and nobody wanted him at any stage and in return we achieved nothing ?

You have spent the last 12 months crying about Dyche being here and now you are crying that he hasn't left. Should we sack Keane for wanting to move on ? Olympiakos are linked with Defour maybe we tell them make a bid or move on.

I want a manager who would never move on? What on earth are you talking about? I think you struggle to read judging by your replies to my posts on a constant basis. I have said what I want numerous times so ill say it again.... I WANT A RESOLUTION TO THIS, SO WE KNOW 100% WHO OUR MANAGER IS GOING TO BE NEXT SEASON.

I simply don't want people at our club who want to move on, lets move them on and move on.

If Dyche wants to stay, great, lets get cracking and enjoy the transfer window. IF he wants to go, lets get him gone and move on swiftly so we don't hinder ourselves, the worst possible outcome is Dyche leaves in 3 weeks midway through preseason and we are unorganised for the season opener.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:26 pm

£1 million buy out clause has been common knowledge for some time I think, as is the fact that he's on a 1 year rolling contract. if he's playing a game, I suspect it is more about guaranteeing he gets the backing in the market that he wants this summer to take Burnley on a level and avoid a really tough relegation scrap next season.

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:27 pm

Apart from the top 6 clubs who have much greater revenues due to overseas exposure. The rest of the premier league, particularly the lower 10 teams, have similar budgets. That's what the premier league tv money does. It creates a levelling effect.

Now, given SD can look back on really building something here at Burnley. On and off the pitch( gawthorpe/ scouting network) Which is a great thing to have on his CV, when he eventually moves on. Coupled with the fact that Palace show much less patience with "unsuccessful" managers. The budget he would have really shouldn't be a deciding factor.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Sarf wrote:Mate, same.

(From my viewpoint though preferably without).

I have a question for all of you, is there absolutely any truth in a £1m buyout for Dyche? (reported in the Mirror.

If Dyche is on a rolling contract, could this not just be all a game by his agent to get him a new contract?

They're questions I simply cant answer because I have no idea. I have 0 "sources" and have never claimed to know anything the normal fan doesn't (apart from the Bamford deal)

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:29 pm

claretspice wrote:£1 million buy out clause has been common knowledge for some time I think, as is the fact that he's on a 1 year rolling contract. if he's playing a game, I suspect it is more about guaranteeing he gets the backing in the market that he wants this summer to take Burnley on a level and avoid a really tough relegation scrap next season.

If he's "playing a game", and I stress IF, then I'd show him the door with his £1m in his top pocket if I was chairman!

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 pm

KRBFC wrote:I want a manager who would never move on? What on earth are you talking about? I think you struggle to read judging by your replies to my posts on a constant basis. I have said what I want numerous times so ill say it again.... I WANT A RESOLUTION TO THIS, SO WE KNOW 100% WHO OUR MANAGER IS GOING TO BE NEXT SEASON.

I simply don't want people at our club who want to move on, lets move them on and move on.

If Dyche wants to stay, great, lets get cracking and enjoy the transfer window. IF he wants to go, lets get him gone and move on swiftly so we don't hinder ourselves, the worst possible outcome is Dyche leaves in 3 weeks midway through preseason and we are unorganised for the season opener.

You don't want people at our club who want to move on ... Again do you realise that there is such a thing as being interested in a job but also happy in the one you are in ?

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:38 pm

claretdom wrote:You don't want people at our club who want to move on ... Again do you realise that there is such a thing as being interested in a job but also happy in the one you are in ?

If you want to leave, you obviously cant be that happy in your current job. If you want to leave and are told you aren't allowed to leave, its likely you will become unhappy.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:39 pm

KRBFC wrote:IF he's looking to leave it isn't ludicrous. Why do we want a manager who doesn't want to be here? Why do we want to waste time by waiting for him to leave?

Yet again I have put the keyword in capitals.

Does this apply to your job too? Suppose there's a job becoming vacant that you fancy, and you've heard rumours that you might get it. You haven't applied for it and you haven't been told that it's yours. Should your current employer immediately sack you?

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:39 pm

I have tried but I feel you are trying to drag me down to your level.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:42 pm

KRBFC wrote:If you want to leave, you obviously cant be that happy in your current job. If you want to leave and are told you aren't allowed to leave, its likely you will become unhappy.

For one thing, if Dyche wants to leave he will leave. For another, the idea that if there is one single job in all the world you'd like better than the job you have, then you can't be happy - that's nonsense.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:43 pm

dsr wrote:Does this apply to your job too? Suppose there's a job becoming vacant that you fancy, and you've heard rumours that you might get it. You haven't applied for it and you haven't been told that it's yours. Should your current employer immediately sack you?

He has already said he is happy at Poundland, so Poundworld would be wasting their time trying to poach their main shelf stacker

minnieclaret · Post by **minnieclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:46 pm

KRBFC wrote:We should offer him a new deal, with a deadline. If he doesn't sign we should replace him immediately, this has the ability to completely destroy our preseason and season (which would suit Palace). Preseason starts in less than 10 days I think, we simply haven't got the time to be ******* around by waiting. Our transfer department operate at snails pace as it is, we need a conclusion one way or another because this uncertainty isn't helping anyone (other than our relegation rivals)

He should be paid what he's worth. Regardless of clubs tapping him up this is a situation where proactive is better than reactive. He knows the club appreciate his work and want him to stay long term. If a club then comes in and offers silly money it's then his decision.
The only uncertainty is on fans forums. Too much sun for some people. He's had his holiday and is now back at work.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:47 pm

boatshed bill wrote:If he's "playing a game", and I stress IF, then I'd show him the door with his £1m in his top pocket if I was chairman!

Really? I think its the way football goes. In fact, I think its the way most walks of life go. if you've got a senior executive who you really, really rate and he gets a hugely lucrative opportunity elsewhere but gives you the chance to match it, then I think you see what you can do to match it. I don't think you sack him for giving you that chance - even if his interest in the lucrative opportunity might have been more driven by getting a better deal from your company than a genuine desire to move.

Football is a business. I think all concerned are probably a bit too conditioned by the way it operates to get unduly hung up on points of principle.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:49 pm

dsr wrote:Does this apply to your job too? Suppose there's a job becoming vacant that you fancy, and you've heard rumours that you might get it. You haven't applied for it and you haven't been told that it's yours. Should your current employer immediately sack you?

I didn't say we should sack him immediately though, did I? People on this forum really have a problem with reading. At least argue against something I said, pretending I said something to argue with yourself is abit weird

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:53 pm

Since this thread started on the 24th May I've had absolutely no sleep, I've chain-smoked, my blackboard is covered in chalked plans, theories and advanced equations, I've watched the Poseidon Adventure countless times, I've frantically guzzled extra strong coffee... and all I've come up with is 'say another Mass'
Where is our brick to save the day ?

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:04 pm

claretspice wrote:Really? I think its the way football goes. In fact, I think its the way most walks of life go. if you've got a senior executive who you really, really rate and he gets a hugely lucrative opportunity elsewhere but gives you the chance to match it, then I think you see what you can do to match it. I don't think you sack him for giving you that chance - even if his interest in the lucrative opportunity might have been more driven by getting a better deal from your company than a genuine desire to move.

Football is a business. I think all concerned are probably a bit too conditioned by the way it operates to get unduly hung up on points of principle.

Yes, I totally get that, but I don't like it, and wouldn't put up with it.

On the basis of your (correct IMO) statement, loyalty is worth absolutely nothing. And on that same basis, the club should be sounding out new and better managers all the time.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:05 pm

KRBFC wrote:I didn't say we should sack him immediately though, did I? People on this forum really have a problem with reading. At least argue against something I said, pretending I said something to argue with yourself is abit weird

I have a problem with reading.. but then I do dislike the M4 as a whole... or is that a bit weird

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:10 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Yes, I totally get that, but I don't like it, and wouldn't put up with it.

On the basis of your (correct IMO) statement, loyalty is worth absolutely nothing. And on that same basis, the club should be sounding out new and better managers all the time.

I think Tony mentioned further up the thread that the Chairman once said to him that, in effect, that's exactly what we do. You've always got to be on the look out for your next manager, or words to that effect.

I wouldn't be quite as negative about the morals of the game as you are, although I get where you are coming from. There is loyalty in football, but loyalty to any club is secondary to personal motivations for any football professional, so whilst it is there, perhaps don't rely on it too much.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:17 pm

KRBFC wrote:I didn't say we should sack him immediately though, did I? People on this forum really have a problem with reading. At least argue against something I said, pretending I said something to argue with yourself is abit weird

Perhaps it's because you have a history of saying things, but meaning something else entirely.

KRBFC · Post by **KRBFC** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Perhaps it's because you have a history of saying things, but meaning something else entirely.

Possibly but when I spell it out clearly numerous times id expect people to actually argue against what I said and not pretend I said something else.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:03 pm

boatshed bill wrote:This has me confused. The general consensus from reports is that he has spoken to Palace's representatives (isn't it?), so they surely must have got permission.

I don't believe he's spoken to anyone.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:04 pm

Yes I think it would do this club and SD good to part company, SD needs a fresh challenge.

But what we don't want is a new manager having to do everything at the last moment.
Hopefully we are not going for an SD clone if he does move, so the new manager needs to be in charge of recruitment from the off and that means within a fortnight from today, so for me if SD is undecided then this time next week should be the deadline, any later and we'll be struggling.
Nobody is bigger than this club and his failure to come out and say his immediate future is with us needs rectifying.
So. SD lets be hearing from you, one way or the other.

Pommieclaret · Post by **Pommieclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:05 pm

This thread will carry on until such time as Palace appoint SD or another manager. There is no point surmising anything unless you are actually in the know. The only people that know what is going on is SD and Mike Garlick. I cannot believe for one minute that SD has not spoken to the Burnley chairman regarding all this speculation. Lets all move on and wait until something concrete happens, then start speculating. If SD leaves I can see another 24 page thread on who we should appoint.

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:07 pm

Thought we already had them lined up.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:14 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Thought we already had them lined up.

You said you would stay away til July

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:20 pm

True but SD and the Board needs a push don't you think.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:22 pm

ablueclaret wrote:True but SD and the Board needs a push don't you think.

No.

claretdom · Post by **claretdom** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:28 pm

ablueclaret wrote:True but SD and the Board needs a push don't you think.

I think you need a drink

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 pm

ablueclaret wrote:True but SD and the Board needs a push don't you think.

No - so stick to your guns and give us a few more days peace

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:31 pm

claretdom wrote:You said you would stay away til July

Yes...how time flies!!

Think I just heard the first cuckoo!

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:57 pm

claretdom wrote:Failing that why not appoint a manager who nobody would want.

Not Brian again

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:11 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I don't believe he's spoken to anyone.

Imagine how many posts on here if he does!

LoveCurryPies · Post by **LoveCurryPies** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:24 pm

ablueclaret wrote:Yes I think it would do this club and SD good to part company, SD needs a fresh challenge.

He's back? ^^^

The vast majority of Burnley fans (with the exception of ablue) want Sean at Turf Moor. He is a perfect fit for the Club. The challenge of keeping us in the PL is huge. He's having a huge influence how the Club is investing for the future. Hopefully he is being well paid and looked after by the Board.

I hope he's busy negotiating new signings.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:31 pm

I can't believe posters still think Dyche will leave , amazing.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:31 pm

Aye give him an ultimatum - that's a tried and tested negotiation strategy that always works.

Let's go the whole hog and send it by text or tweet it too him
#signuporclearyourlocker

Who does he think he is this Dyche bloke ? What's he ever done for Burnley ?

Other than getting us up to the Premier League twice, staying up and earning the club the best part of £300m in the process he's done literally nowt for us.

We are Burnley FC - a global brand and nobody (and I mean nobody) messes us about.

On the other hand my strategy if I was Mr Garlick would be to get down on my knees and beg him to stay and tell him he can have anything he wants - for life.....but to take as much time as he needs thinking about it.

Horses for courses eh !

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 pm

I'm puzzled why he needs a fresh challenge. If he thinks he's taken us as far as he can, then perhaps. But, if he thinks he's taken us as far as he can, he's less faith in his abilities than I expected he would have.

No, we are not going to be a top six side but why can't the challenge be to get us to top ten? Why can't the challenge be to show that he can develop the side and our style of play?

I could be wrong but it's easy to simply say "he needs a fresh challenge" with **** all reasoning behind it, other than to stir up a few annoyed responses.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:35 pm

Double bluff the whole lot of em.
Wait til Palace announce Pellegrino as their new manager then sack Dyche.
That'll learn em to string us along.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:47 pm

DCWat wrote:No, we are not going to be a top six side...

have some ambition man FFS...

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:50 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:have some ambition man FFS...

Sorry, I forgot to add: for a few seasons yet

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:50 pm

'...That'll learn em to string us along...'

teach em Woonderbah

teach em!

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Sizeism now! Booooooo!

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:15 pm

claretblue wrote:'...That'll learn em to string us along...'

teach em Woonderbah

teach em!

Yeah teach em like what you done to me

ablueclaret · Post by **ablueclaret** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:21 pm

His method has become terribly stale and at this club he will never have the belief he can change things, and the moment he does, doubts will intervene.
If he really wants to be an England manager then he needs to show that he can manage thoroughbreds,

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:27 pm