More post brexit referendum good news!!!!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Regardless if you voted leave or remain, regardless if you vote Labour or Tory today has again been an absolute shambles from a government which specialises in it.

[Lancasterclaret]

Its like the Titanic going full speed through iceberg infested water with no captain, no lookouts, no lifeboats but plenty of deck chairs and the 6th largest band in the world playing patriotic tunes to distract everyone.

[Sidney1st]

I think they're preparing to be the actual cabinet before long.

This government can't survive this, surely.

There's never been a government as deceitful and incompetent as this.

Deceitful?
Forgotten Blair already have you?

[aggi]

How on earth can we negotiate an exit deal if you don't know the potential outcomes of those decisions. What are we basing negotiations on, do we toss a coin? I've just spent three weeks doing impact assessments for an author who is planning a new book deal with their publisher, I'd have kind of hoped that Brexit would have involved more analysis than that, not less.

It's not been going well for a while but this is a pretty clear indication that we're making it up as we go along and will ultimately end up screwed.

I thought this was a bit of a cheap shot when people were talking about the lack of notes for our negotiating team but it appears that it was actually because we hadn't done any preparation



He's either lying because the assessments are very negative, in which case I suspect some of the civil servants who worked on the assessments will leak that the work was carried out, or completely incompetent. Whichever one it is I struggle to see how he can still have a job at the end of the week.

If you want a laugh/to be amazed at some outright lies, here is a selection of Davis and others quotes talking about the impact assessments they’ll be doing/have done.

http://jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-early ... -analyses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I’d be interested to see what the Brexit voters think about this? Are you still confident we’ll be fine or does this incompetence make you wonder about what deal we’re going to end up with?

[UpTheBeehole]

Not got a clue what you're on about.

Nowt new there then!

Your drinking is at new heights then!

Last week you were going crazy about some skank in Batley who'd been 'attacked' by 'three asian schoolboys', however the area it allegedly took place was covered by CCTV and showed no evidence of the attack or attackers.

No surprise that the main cheerleaders were Tommy Robinson, and on here, yourself. You have a lot of shared values don't you.

[Darthlaw]

Deceitful?
Forgotten Blair already have you?

But the Tories...

[Lancasterclaret]

This is serious. Do either of you two have a clue how this affects us?

Neither do I because nobody has bothered their arse doing an assessment about it.

If we don't get a transitional deal organised so we have time to sort our **** out we are in big trouble.

[Lancasterclaret]

Well, he's lied about it more than once.

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/12/ ... more-68758" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

Your drinking is at new heights then!

Last week you were going crazy about some skank in Batley who'd been 'attacked' by 'three asian schoolboys', however the area it allegedly took place was covered by CCTV and showed no evidence of the attack or attackers.

No surprise that the main cheerleaders were Tommy Robinson, and on here, yourself. You have a lot of shared values don't you.

You call a defenceless lone woman, that was viciously attacked in the early hours of the morning by 3 Asians, "some skank"

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/30/womans-he ... e-7120604/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You are a very very low person.

God knows what it has to do with the thread.

But you've proven yourself to be quite a repugnant individual. "Some skank".....

Bad. Just bad.

[UpTheBeehole]

You call a defenceless lone woman, that was viciously attacked in the early hours of the morning by 3 Asians, "some skank"

http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/30/womans-he ... e-7120604/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where is the evidence?

[UpTheBeehole]

Calling a woman whos been viciously attacked (regardless of who the perpetrators were) "some skank", is all the evidence I need to confirm I'll no longer respond to you.

You've crossed a line.

You're a f ucking absolute disgrace.

She wasn't attacked!

The police statement states she says was pushed to the floor. How on earth does someone get injuries more in keeping with being cut with glass, for example, when they were pushed to the floor?

The area is covered by CCTV. There is no evidence of an attack, or any attackers.

She has made it up.

[UpTheBeehole]

You seem to struggle with this concept of 'evidence' don't you Ringo

[RingoMcCartney]

She wasn't attacked!

The police statement states she says was pushed to the floor. How on earth does someone get injuries more in keeping with being cut with glass, for example, when they were pushed to the floor?

The area is covered by CCTV. There is no evidence of an attack, or any attackers.

She has made it up.

I can choose to either engage, or not engage, with cocky gobsh1tes like you.

I'm choosing the latter......

[Tall Paul]

I can choose to either engage, or not engage, with cocky gobsh1tes like you.

I'm choosing the latter......

The evidence would suggest otherwise.

[UpTheBeehole]

I can choose to either engage, or not engage, with cocky gobsh1tes like you.

I'm choosing the latter......

Around 20 stitches, from being pushed to the floor? What was the floor made of, swords?

[RingoMcCartney]

The evidence would suggest otherwise.

Just out of interest Paul. Would you choose to describe the victim of a vicious attack as "some skank"( regardless of whoever the perpetrators are). Instead of trying to mock me for making one extra post just to clarify what I think of the gobsh1te.

Would you? Yes or no......

[UpTheBeehole]

Would you choose to describe the victim of a vicious attack

She wasn't attacked. There is no evidence. The area is covered by CCTV and she was the only person in the vicinity at that time. No attack or attackers were seen.

[CrosspoolClarets]

If you go by the assumption that Davis and co are not totally incompetent (surely they cannot be)....

.....the only conclusion I can draw is that they have decided to have a small tent without people they do not trust inside it.

Thus the Treasury, Chancellor, HMRC and others, who would need to partake in detailed impact studies, must not be trusted to give a balanced view without playing politics.

The more I think about it the more I decide that the "establishment" are fighting tooth and nail against Brexit and that is why May and Davis are trying to do it seemingly on the hoof.

We have to leave, this will ruin our country now if we don't, but I can't see them winning this one. The EU have their tentacles everywhere.

[UpTheBeehole]

To quote the great man...

Where is it!? The evidence!?

What do you mean you've only got a hunch!?

You get the keys to the Delorean, and all you come back with is exactly what I've got. An opinion! You Schmuck!

what was your other one?

You've been hoisted by you're own petard....

(sic)

[Tall Paul]

Just out of interest Paul. Would you choose to describe the victim of a vicious attack as "some skank"( regardless of whoever the perpetrators are). Instead of trying to mock me for making one extra post just to clarify what I think of the gobsh1te.

Would you? Yes or no......

No

[UpTheBeehole]

If you go by the assumption that Davis and co are not totally incompetent (surely they cannot be)....

The only alternative is that they are deceitful liars.

Those of us on one side have known they are for a long while.

Eventually people on your side might cotton on that you're being taken for a ride.

[Lancasterclaret]

With the greatest respect Crosspool, thats garbage.

The quicker people who back Brexit get that we are rushing into this without adequate preparation the better.

Anyway, there are impact statements from 2012, and you'll never guess what they say.......

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/review-of-t ... ompetences" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RingoMcCartney]

No

Fair play fella.

[martin_p]

I’ve thought it for a few weeks now, but today has convinced me, David Davies and Ringo are one and the same person.

[Vino blanco]

You really shouldn’t worry about Brexit boys and girls, it will all come out in the wash.

[Lancasterclaret]

Based on what?

Again, with the greatest respect, that attitude is exactly why we are where we are.

[RingoMcCartney]

I’ve thought it for a few weeks now, but today has convinced me, David Davies and Ringo are one and the same person.

You could be onto something there Martin! We've never been spotted in the same room at the same time......

[Bacchus]

If you go by the assumption that Davis and co are not totally incompetent (surely they cannot be)....

.....the only conclusion I can draw is that they have decided to have a small tent without people they do not trust inside it.

Thus the Treasury, Chancellor, HMRC and others, who would need to partake in detailed impact studies, must not be trusted to give a balanced view without playing politics.

The more I think about it the more I decide that the "establishment" are fighting tooth and nail against Brexit and that is why May and Davis are trying to do it seemingly on the hoof.

We have to leave, this will ruin our country now if we don't, but I can't see them winning this one. The EU have their tentacles everywhere.

I don't always agree with you, but your contributions to this debate are generally thoughtful and well considered. This is just drivel though. It's the sort of desperate stuff Farage trots out.

There are two possibilities:
1 - They haven't done any detailed impact assessments which is unbelievably negligent.
2 - They have done the impact assessments and they make such poor reading that it's preferable to look like negligent liars than to release them for wider consumption.

In either case the people leading this process are utterly unfit to do so.

[martin_p]

I don't always agree with you, but your contributions to this debate are generally thoughtful and well considered. This is just drivel though. It's the sort of desperate stuff Farage trots out.

There are two possibilities:
1 - They haven't done any detailed impact assessments which is unbelievably negligent.
2 - They have done the impact assessments and they make such poor reading that it's preferable to look like negligent liars than to release them for wider consumption.

In either case the people leading this process are utterly unfit to do so.

Apparently ‘Whitehall insiders’ are saying that 1 is the truth.

[claretandy]

For the remainer wild conspiracy theorists out there : If they exist, and show Armageddon was about to happen don't you think a remainer in the civil service would have leaked them by now ?

[Lancasterclaret]

Keep up Brexiteer, they don't exist

But ones done four years ago do, and guess what? You position is based on nothing but blue passports, rhetoric and frantic flag waving

[martin_p]

For the remainer wild conspiracy theorists out there : If they exist, and show Armageddon was about to happen don't you think a remainer in the civil service would have leaked them by now ?

It would be less embarrassing for the government if there was some sort of conspiracy. Unfortunately all there is is utter incompetence.

[RocketLawnChair]

In either case the people leading this process are utterly unfit to do so.

Who would you replace them with ?

And an extra obstacle too make it harder , Zippy George and Bungle aren’t available

[Lancasterclaret]

This is the problem isn't it?

Its a perfect storm of incompetence and rabid ideological ******** and no real way out of it.

[aggi]

For the remainer wild conspiracy theorists out there : If they exist, and show Armageddon was about to happen don't you think a remainer in the civil service would have leaked them by now ?

I think people are just hoping that they do exist, even if they are negative, rather than wanting to face up to the incompetence representing us in the country's most important negotiations for many years.

[Bacchus]

Who would you replace them with ?

And an extra obstacle too make it harder , Zippy George and Bungle aren’t available

Who knows? You'd assume that among the main parties there would be somebody vaguely capable of at least treating the process with the respect it deserves.

A cross-party committee with genuine control over the process would be a start but to be honest I'm well beyond caring what colour rosettes are on display. Just pressing on with this contemptible gaggle of of fantacists, liars, and incompetents surely isn't an option, though.

[martin_p]

More staggering revelations, from Phillip Hammond this time, the cabinet hasn’t even had a discussion about the final Brexit it wants. So we’ve had all this posturing about not releasing information which would put us at a disadvantage in negotiations and playing our campaign SD close to our chest about what we want and it turns out we haven’t even got any cards!

[Lancasterclaret]

I miss the days when people just whinged at people for "talking Britain down".

At least there was an illusion that we actually had a clue what we were doing, unlike now.

[Paul Waine]

With the greatest respect Crosspool, thats garbage.

The quicker people who back Brexit get that we are rushing into this without adequate preparation the better.

Anyway, there are impact statements from 2012, and you'll never guess what they say.......

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/review-of-t ... ompetences" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi Lancs, interesting link. Was this material referenced during the referendum?

The review of the balance of competences will be an audit of what the EU does and how it affects the UK.

Of course, the "2012 stuff" is not really an assessment of the "benefits" of being in the EU, or not being in the EU. And, I see it as different from an assessment of where we might be after the completion of brexit as the former is a review of the status quo, whereas the latter can only be an attempt to "look into the future."

Again, I reference my post that suggests there can be "win-win" outcomes or "lose-lose" outcomes, but it is extremely difficult to imagine any "win-lose" possible outcomes. And, if we make the effort to offer the "hand of friendship," rather than metaphorically "waving our fists" at each other, we've a chance of achieving a "win-win" outcome.

EDIT: Amended "why wasn't" to "was...". I shouldn't assume that the gov't's review of "EU competencies" wasn't referenced during the referendum campaign.

[Healeywoodclaret]

I can choose to either engage, or not engage, with cocky gobsh1tes like you.

I'm choosing the latter......

I really wouldn't bother Ringo.

.This " very middle class " creature is vile. His posts are Evidence of it.

[Lancasterclaret]

I think you are massively underestimating the discord in both main political parties about this, and the reality of the actual vote itself.

The reality is that the Brexit promised before the referendum is a impossible, and the resulting fudges and chaos are a direct result of that. Throw in the election stalemate as well and we are where we are.

[RingoMcCartney]

I really wouldn't bother Ringo.

.This " very middle class " creature is vile. His posts are Evidence of it.

An attention craving maggot. Not fit to call himself a Claret.

While he was doing his spewing his bile on here, I had a text off my daughter. It was a lovely positive and happy text. Then, in complete contrast, I read his latest prepubescent, vile and nasty, gobbin off, and I just thought, "nah, no more."

So that's that! Happy days Healeywood! Happy days!

[Bordeauxclaret]

Didn’t you also say you’d never converse with imploding turtle again?
That lasted about a week didn’t it?

[RingoMcCartney]

Didn’t you also say you’d never converse with imploding turtle again?
That lasted about a week didn’t it?

No. Why do you think the idiot counts the number of times I've rebuffed him with the same one liner. Not sure how many times but I'm sure he'll have the latest up to date figures on it, filed away in the bowels of the Turtle Bunker.

I admit I have an occasional lapse. But by n large I stick to it.

Why does it concern you?

[Bordeauxclaret]

I’m just concerned you’ll look stupid. Again.

You won’t be able to help yourself.

[RingoMcCartney]

I’m just concerned you’ll look stupid. Again.

You won’t be able to help yourself.

Do try to not let it bother you. It certainly doesnt me.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Thank goodness for that.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Seems to be a general sense on here that Davis and May are deceitful liars.

That may be true, but I do sense that there is no trust within government (nor within Labour) and nor in the civil service. One things for sure, it won’t be negligent not to do an impact assessment - these departments do them in their sleep, it will be by choice. It is impossible for them to be done but kept quiet - the Treasury would have to be involved and they would shaft Davis if he buried them.

If I was doing this (it is the kind of thing I have done a lot of) I would be using the pre Brexit Treasury report as a base, flexing it to less pessimistic migration scenarios, and spreading across all the major industry types. It would thus be part Treasury, part international trade, part home office and part Brexit depts. two led by Brexiteers, two led by fervent Remainers.

Thus it has to be a deliberate choice, maybe cynical, but not negligent. May wants to avoid tough debate for as long as she can, to get into the trade talks first, I suspect this is one sign of that. She doesn’t want that inevitable argument and resignations (yet) from the factions listed above.

On this issue, the truth will probably come out at some point.

[If it be your will]

What am I missing? I'm genuinely confused.

On Nov 2 Labour successfully compelled the release of 58 assessments, unredacted: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-handover" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then we are suddenly told: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Am I confusing 2 separate issues? How on earth did we know the exact number if none existed? As it stands I'm not at all certain what has just happened.

[Lancasterclaret]

They didn't exist according to Davis IIBYW

He said that today, after telling everyone that they were "extensive"

F**k knows what is going on, but its actually getting to the stage where ignoring the referendum result might not be as damaging to our democracy as what is going on at the moment.